PDA

View Full Version : Dark Phased.



raptrlvr
11-17-2011, 03:32 PM
Saw this bird sitting on a telephone pole this morning. It was a long way off and I wasn't sure what type of bird it was. At first, I thought it might be a dark phased red tail, but, it was too black. Then I thought it might be a Harris Hawk, but, no reddish patches on its wings. As I said, it was a long way off and I couldn't get near it. Finally it lifted off and drifted towards me a little. I had the 300mm lens on the camera, but, the bird was still a long way off. Turned out to be a juvenile Zone-Tailed Hawk. I have seen the adults around here, but, not the juvey's. Gorgeous bird.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z74/raptrlvr/20111117_7486.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z74/raptrlvr/20111117_7485.jpg

Heatherg
11-17-2011, 06:41 PM
Beautiful Bird!!!!! How does their size compare to a redtail or HH????

PeteJ
11-17-2011, 08:19 PM
Sorry Jim, it's a dark phased ad. western RT. Many of the dark western RTs have that heavy terminal bar with barring up the tail but not as wide. An immy Zone-tailed does not have the dark terminal edge to the wing. Compare it to this immy Zone-tailed and you'll notice some differences. http://www.galleryofbirds.com/costarica/images/Zone%20tailed%20Hawk%20Pacific%20coast%206579.jpg
then look at this ad. rufous phase RT...note the back edge of the wing, see that dark band at the end of each feather? The Zone's don't have that.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y198/mojoedevine/Raptors/RedTail-rufous-darkmorph4.jpg

schwartze
11-17-2011, 09:30 PM
Whatever it is, it's not in a "phase", it is a dark color MORPH.

Sorry, just had to...

Regards,

Steve

P.S. Yes, it's a RTH.

Keith Denman
11-17-2011, 10:57 PM
I saw a beautiful Harlans adult this morning. She was being harrassed by crow. Dark chocolate brown with a beautiful red tail.

raptrlvr
11-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Pete, this thing is black as can be. I didn't see any red in its tail and the tail appeared to be on the long side for a red tail. I looked in my National Geo Filed guide and saw the markings for the juvey zone tail and thought that was what it was. I just looked at the markings again and your right, it doesn't have the dark wing markings. I have seen dark morphs { are you happy now Steve} before, but, never one this black.

PeteJ
11-18-2011, 12:28 AM
I've seen some that were very black (jet black) and others that were more sooty to dark chocolate. Also the tail not showing red doesn't necessarily mean much. The myriad of morphs of western RTs (including the Harlan's) is quite striking and it goes to even including the tail. I believe there was a pdf about this with both RTs and Harlan's showing the rich variety in the phenotypes expressed within this group. Truly amazing. I trapped one down here that was very heavily spotted in the breast..like a first year Peale's Falcon, but once I had it in my hand I determined it was an adult RT, except that its tail was split..with the upper half looking like a Harlan's with that white speckling and marbling of black and red and white, but the lower half of the tail looked like an adult western RT with the dark terminal bar and then narrow barring until it met with the marbling part. Weirdest RT I've ever seen.
If you want to see more dark ones, you can find them fairly typically in the Rio Grande valley from Hatch to El Paso. I'm not sure why they gravitate to the valley as there doesn't seem to be a lot of prey there (pocket gophers, rock squirrels, but few rabbits and jacks). But we see them very commonly there at this time of year. They are good looking hawks for sure. You might want to view the following post as it has a pic of probably what you saw (see the tail pic) and technically its a Harlan's, but for me, Harlan's are RTs. http://www.nafex.net/showpost.php?p=136787&postcount=21

AK Rev
11-18-2011, 01:39 AM
I've wanted a Harlan's for years. Might have to trap down south in the future!

wesleyc6
11-18-2011, 09:17 AM
Looks just like the adult dark morph rough legged hawk in my photographic guide.. Do you have those there?

wesleyc6
11-18-2011, 09:19 AM
Looks just like the adult dark morph rough legged hawk in my photographic guide.. Do you have those there?


Of course it looks just like the adult harlans photo too:D

PeteJ
11-18-2011, 10:03 AM
Looks just like the adult dark morph rough legged hawk in my photographic guide.. Do you have those there?
Extremely rare to see a Roughleg this far south. Northern NM sometimes gets them if the winter is pretty harsh up to the north of NM, but they are considered records to see them I think. We do get some nice dark morph Ferrug down here from time to time though.

passagejack
11-18-2011, 10:28 AM
I too have been thinking Rough Legged. That thing looks eactly like the black ones we see! It has small feet and looks to have feathers on its legs?

Keith Denman
11-18-2011, 10:47 AM
The Harlan's or dark phased red-tails I have had or seen do not have the white wings underneath. They are all chocolate brown.

canvibe
11-18-2011, 11:16 AM
I usually get waves of Harlan's flying south through my area during the third week of September, last year when I trapped mine I had the pick of about 30 in a 1/2 Square Mile area. What was interesting was, there was power poles along the side of the road, a usual perch for Redtails, but most of these Dark Harlan's chose to perch on small trees next to the road. They come from Northern Canada and Alaska so perhaps in less populated areas they are not familiar with power poles.

I believe the picture is of a Rough-Legged Hawk. They have been know to migrate as far south as New Mexico. Here are some pictures of Rough-Legged Hawks to compare to,

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/EE7A4830-orig.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/CF3F82C8-orig.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/1BB9EE21-orig.jpg

calebstroh
11-18-2011, 11:21 AM
I too have been thinking Rough Legged. That thing looks eactly like the black ones we see! It has small feet and looks to have feathers on its legs?

That was my first impression as well. Its a ruffie!

Saluqi
11-18-2011, 11:29 AM
The Harlan's or dark phased red-tails I have had or seen do not have the white wings underneath. They are all chocolate brown.

Not this one...I'd put money on Jim's photos being of a Harlans.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/Gos_Frieda/Harla008.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/Gos_Frieda/Harla006.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/Gos_Frieda/Harla004.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa198/Gos_Frieda/Harla002.jpg

canvibe
11-18-2011, 11:37 AM
Read this article for one more consideration, lol

http://ebird.org/content/ebird/news/hybrid_HALHxRLHA

PeteJ
11-18-2011, 12:01 PM
Let's face it, they're all variable as hell. But, the Roughleg when they're black like that (see those pics) tend to have a lighter head..with streaking. It is really just a saturated version of their normal morph with the dark belly band and the light upper breast and head. The RTs do not show that same pattern, usually RT heads are darker except in the lightest morphs of Kriders and some Fuertes and Calurus (which might be golden in the latter two). But in the dark morphs of RTs they are basically always dark headed. As for some being lighter under the wings? Again this is highly variable and definitely more predominant in adults than in the immature. Jim's original bird I believe is an adult due to the tail pattern and it looks like maybe one tail feather is molting down still with the pattern like the others (an immature would not be molting a feather that is the same pattern as its other immature feathers if it lost one somehow..it would molt in in the adult pattern).

dunners
11-18-2011, 12:27 PM
That looks like an adult Harlan's RT to me. Look at this photo of a clear representative that looks very similar - http://www.azfo.org/gallery/2009/html1/HRLH_Kansas_Ryan_20090228.html. They even explain the unusual markings. There is a tiny bit of red in the tail. I thought that the photo above was a juvenile zone tailed hawk until I looked more closely at the barring on the tail, which looks more like a redtail. A juvenile zone tailed hawk has slightly thicker and a little less frequent barring. Notice also that the birds in both photos have barred undertail coverts, which is typical in Harlan's RTs, but not in zone tailed hawks (solid black).

pj_elia
11-18-2011, 03:47 PM
Jim,

Nice job getting that picture of a wild bird. Very nice shot.
Anyway, I agree on it being a dark morph RT, either western, harlan's, or an intergrade. Fortunately I had these already uploaded from years ago in photobucket. Here is a picture of an immature male on left and adult female trapped at the same time. The male was brought back to NJ and hunted on cottontails.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/pj_elia/trapped.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/pj_elia/zingy2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/pj_elia/NyssaPhil.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/pj_elia/hawking.jpg

Keith Denman
11-20-2011, 12:21 AM
My immature male Harlan's looked like yours except that it had no white on the underside of the wings and the spots were more yellowish brown spots. I love Harlan's, I would like to get me a white Ferruginous or Kriders RT.

FredFogg
11-20-2011, 12:33 AM
Pete, this thing is black as can be. I didn't see any red in its tail and the tail appeared to be on the long side for a red tail. I looked in my National Geo Filed guide and saw the markings for the juvey zone tail and thought that was what it was. I just looked at the markings again and your right, it doesn't have the dark wing markings. I have seen dark morphs { are you happy now Steve} before, but, never one this black.

Uhhh, Jim, you can trap that one for me! LOL
Beautiful bird!

pj_elia
11-21-2011, 11:49 AM
My immature male Harlan's looked like yours except that it had no white on the underside of the wings and the spots were more yellowish brown spots. I love Harlan's, I would like to get me a white Ferruginous or Kriders RT.


Was yours very small as well. The two males we flew hunted around 25-27 oz.

raptrlvr
11-21-2011, 12:06 PM
I went down to trap this bird on Saturday. I threw the trap out under it and drove down the road about 1/4 mile. The bird looked at the trap for about 5 minutes and then flew off. I was drinking a cup of coffee, so, I sat there for another 10 minutes. I saw something dark flying toward the trap and thought it was the same bird. Then I noticed the white band on the tail and saw it hit the trap. By the time I got to the trap, a female HH was caught with 2 more HH's coming in. All these birds were adults and looked to be in great shape. I released the one that was trapped.

PeteJ
11-21-2011, 01:07 PM
Must be more of those illegal Texas immigrant Harris' hawks moving over into the land of plenty. I bet Harris' hawks are pretty few and far between over in east NM and west Texas these days due to no food. They're going to have to go further west than here locally before they'll hit bunnies though. I think we're down pretty good maybe. I'll know more in a couple of weeks when I get the gos started. But I walked a few places the other day with someone from back east and we didn't see a single bunny or jack and not much sign either. But it was mid-morning which is never a good time to look for lagamorphs, but there was a pair of Goldens there, so they must have been finding something to eat.

raptrlvr
11-21-2011, 03:26 PM
Pete, I have been having a tough time finding rabbits of any kind this season. I have been down in Deming with my camera the last few days and the HH's appear to be doing well, so, they must be catching something. I didn't have any problem finding HH's on the eastern side yesterday, but, maybe it was dumb luck on my part. I also had the advantage of being told where to look for them by other falconers.

PeteJ
11-21-2011, 03:52 PM
Yeah I mapped all the groups over there many years ago when I was doing research for WIPP on their status. There are certain groups, particularly those in the agricultural areas that seem to hang on just fine, but the desert groups often have to move to other places for the duration.
I didn't think the monsoon was quite good enough to do a good job on bunnies around here. I suspect if you can head a bit west of Deming it should get better as the moisture flow was much better through there than it was just east of there. I have a bunny around the backyard, but he might be the only one left for all I know. He's enjoying my lawn anyway. And a GHO was coming at night, so probably she will be enjoying this one last bunny before long.

AK Rev
11-21-2011, 04:03 PM
Not seeing nearly the rabbits I saw just last year. To this point, I still have not seen one rabbit in any of the local yards whereas last year, I saw them in every patch of grass EVERY morning. That has to tell you something. I'm not seeing many in the fields either.

raptrlvr
12-08-2011, 04:55 PM
Hey Pete, just thought you would like to see this. Its from the Audibon Society.


The November Bird Sightings Report has been put to bed so to speak. There were many comments on the identity of the hawk photographed by Jim Rogers. Most of them centered around the bird being a Rough-legged Hawk. I sent an email to hawk expert Brian Wheeler and this is what he said, "The bird looks like an adult dark Red-tailed Hawk, and a very dark one at that. The white forehead, or at least what appears to be such is misleading, almost Rough-legged Hawk like but tail is redtail. Wing shape on one image looks more Rough-legged, too. Wing markings and tail markings make it redtail, however.

PeteJ
12-08-2011, 05:29 PM
The winnings for the pool can be sent to me @.......
And, just so you know....I would never ever believe what an Auduboner tells me something is. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

canvibe
12-08-2011, 10:54 PM
Sooooo Hybrid?

Ricko
12-12-2011, 12:08 PM
Whatever it is, it's not in a "phase", it is a dark color MORPH.

Sorry, just had to...

Regards,

Steve

P.S. Yes, it's a RTH.



Steve, you are correct. However, age could be defined as a phase. Nonetheless, absolutely gorgeous bird.

canvibe
12-12-2011, 11:00 PM
Steve, you are correct. However, age could be defined as a phase. Nonetheless, absolutely gorgeous bird.

Wouldn't an immature Harlan's be considered to be in an imature color phase, not only does the color of their tail feathers change, they usually get darker after their first molt.

Without determining that the hawk in the picture is not a Harlan's, it is incorrect to classify it as a Dark Morph.

Morphs must occupy the same habitat at the same time: this would exclude geographical species such as the Harlan's

The term Morph in reference to color variation makes no sense as the bird is not going to morph into something else.

Zarafia
12-12-2011, 11:23 PM
Morph, phase, variation. Shall we just call it a mutation? That would be accurate. But really you're just splitting hairs. I don't think that there is a definitive term for these birds, a term accepted by scientists and falconers. Until there is a term accepted by both then why bicker?
I think we can all agree that they are very interesting looking birds.

PeteJ
12-13-2011, 12:22 AM
Wouldn't an immature Harlan's be considered to be in an imature color phase, not only does the color of their tail feathers change, they usually get darker after their first molt.

Without determining that the hawk in the picture is not a Harlan's, it is incorrect to classify it as a Dark Morph.

Morphs must occupy the same habitat at the same time: this would exclude geographical species such as the Harlan's

The term Morph in reference to color variation makes no sense as the bird is not going to morph into something else.
I think when they use the term 'morph' in this case it is short for morphology, in other words: 'One of various distinct forms of an organism or species.' And, regardless if it is a Harlan's or a RT, it is dark and therefore a dark morph. There are light morph Harlan's, although when I think of Harlan's I must admit to thinking that the normal plumage is dark and the lighter plumage is probably the lesser known. Much like the dark plumage is not average for an RT.

canvibe
12-13-2011, 12:38 AM
Morph, phase, variation. Shall we just call it a mutation? That would be accurate. But really you're just splitting hairs. I don't think that there is a definitive term for these birds, a term accepted by scientists and falconers. Until there is a term accepted by both then why bicker?
I think we can all agree that they are very interesting looking birds.

One could bicker, split hairs, and argue that the use of mutation in regards to naturally occurring color variations is incorrect.

Zarafia
12-13-2011, 12:55 AM
Not really. It's pretty universally accepted that mutations are how everything different comes to be. From what I understand anyway. Maybe I'm mistaken.

canvibe
12-13-2011, 01:22 AM
I think when they use the term 'morph' in this case it is short for morphology, in other words: 'One of various distinct forms of an organism or species.' And, regardless if it is a Harlan's or a RT, it is dark and therefore a dark morph. There are light morph Harlan's, although when I think of Harlan's I must admit to thinking that the normal plumage is dark and the lighter plumage is probably the lesser known. Much like the dark plumage is not average for an RT.

Morphs must occupy the same habitat at the same time: this would exclude geographical species such as the Harlan's. I believe you are confusing the Harlan's with what is commonly called a "Dark Morph RT".

Morph is not short for Morphology,
It is actually a Greek word meaning Form. But if you add the Greek word Logos meaning Study, I guess you do end up creating Form+Study (Morphe+Logos) = Morphology.

canvibe
12-13-2011, 02:51 AM
Not really. It's pretty universally accepted that mutations are how everything different comes to be. From what I understand anyway. Maybe I'm mistaken.

Natural Selection is usually the most powerful mechanism or process causing evolution to occur, however, it only selects among the existing variation already in a population. Variations resulting by both Mutation and Recombination. Recombination being the more potent one of the two, thus resulting in quicker evolutionary changes.

PeteJ
12-13-2011, 07:56 AM
Morphs must occupy the same habitat at the same time: this would exclude geographical species such as the Harlan's. I believe you are confusing the Harlan's with what is commonly called a "Dark Morph RT".

Morph is not short for Morphology,
It is actually a Greek word meaning Form. But if you add the Greek word Logos meaning Study, I guess you do end up creating Form+Study (Morphe+Logos) = Morphology.
LOL...morph + ology...duh! You're catching on. I am not confusing anything. I know it is a dark morph RT. It may be a Harlan's or a dark morph western RT, but I think what you are confused about is that you're thinking that a Harlan's is separate species. The long standing accepted scientific consensus is that it is a race of the RT. Therefore, with the extensive range of RT (the whole of North America except the arctic tundra) then the Harlan's would occur in the same habitat at the same time. So, its like thinking that pale race B. j. kriderii is somehow a separate species that we should call "Krider's Hawk". Well, sorry, it isn't. Keep trying to look at the big picture because the details do not matter as they represent a very small portion of any population.

canvibe
12-13-2011, 08:00 PM
LOL...morph + ology...duh! You're catching on. I am not confusing anything. I know it is a dark morph RT. It may be a Harlan's or a dark morph western RT, but I think what you are confused about is that you're thinking that a Harlan's is separate species. The long standing accepted scientific consensus is that it is a race of the RT. Therefore, with the extensive range of RT (the whole of North America except the arctic tundra) then the Harlan's would occur in the same habitat at the same time. So, its like thinking that pale race B. j. kriderii is somehow a separate species that we should call "Krider's Hawk". Well, sorry, it isn't. Keep trying to look at the big picture because the details do not matter as they represent a very small portion of any population.

Peat, I never stated that I believe the Harlan's (Buteo Jamaicensis Harlani) to be a separate species, in fact I believe it to be a Subspecies of Buteo Jamaicensis.toungeout

wyodjm
12-13-2011, 09:11 PM
Here's a dark passage Redtail I trapped in Farson, Wyoming in 1982. She was trapped in October. When she moulted out, she looked like a miniature Golden Eagle. She was cool. A great bird. I used to fly her out of a soar on cottontails. I released her at the end of her third season.

For the Redtail guys out there, what would you have called her? I have no idea.

Note the Erik Tabb Anglo-Indian hood and the dog-skin glove from Jack Stoddart. The glove was made by an old glove maker in Holland. Hawking bag from John Moran.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu312/djm708/IMG_9292.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu312/djm708/IMG_9295.jpg

robhawkyyz
12-13-2011, 11:13 PM
redtails mix and intermingle eventually they will all be " gray "... again .. or green, or whatever color they started with.... and, they will start wearing Dans' cool sunglasses from the 80's too. LOL ... having said that. it looks like a dark morph mixxed with a , what we know as a normal redtail and genes rescesive or dominant prevailed , we may never know because we don't have or see the parents of that hawk.

PeteJ
12-13-2011, 11:35 PM
Dan, she looked like one of those red morph ones we see quite often down here. To me the are actually one of the prettiest RTs because the have so much saturated color and that really intense belly band. In the second pic it looked like the upper breast got really a nice dark rufous color right? This immature probably looked quite similar to yours in that top pic and it would have molted out to be red morph.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/immyredphasetiercelRT.jpg
This second one is an adult that is across town and has been on that same pole for about three winters in a row.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff174/petej1956/DSCF1441.jpg

canvibe
12-14-2011, 12:19 AM
Dan, Intermediate-Dark Morph Western Red-Tailed Hawk (Buteo jamaicensis calurus) would be my guess

wyodjm
12-14-2011, 12:57 AM
Thanks Rob, Pete, and Greg.

My best to you and yours.

Dan

PeteJ
12-15-2011, 10:35 AM
Just to show you how confusing the NA Buteos can be, check on this link to a pic of, probably immature, Harlan's. Now I could definitely see a person mistaking this one for an American Rough-legged Hawk except that you can clearly see in the photo that it doesn't have feathered tarsi. http://www.azfo.org/gallery/2011/html14/HRLH_Tubac_Friesz_08_December_2011.html

wyodjm
12-17-2011, 04:20 PM
redtails mix and intermingle eventually they will all be " gray "... again .. or green, or whatever color they started with.... and, they will start wearing Dans' cool sunglasses from the 80's too. LOL ... having said that. it looks like a dark morph mixxed with a , what we know as a normal redtail and genes rescesive or dominant prevailed , we may never know because we don't have or see the parents of that hawk.

Come to think of it, those were prescription glasses also. :) Photograys they were called. They would darken when you went outside.

Best,

wyodjm
12-17-2011, 04:24 PM
Dan, she looked like one of those red morph ones we see quite often down here. To me the are actually one of the prettiest RTs because the have so much saturated color and that really intense belly band. In the second pic it looked like the upper breast got really a nice dark rufous color right? This immature probably looked quite similar to yours in that top pic and it would have molted out to be red morph.

Yes, very similar Pete. The bird I had was really good looking.

Best,

canvibe
12-17-2011, 09:20 PM
Here are some pics of a male RT that I released after his first molt.
His tail feathers were in my opinion Harlanish.

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/281BB93F-orig.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/A7B1FA6A-orig.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/580E7E96-orig.jpg

cllhawker
01-25-2012, 11:53 PM
This bird almost looks as if he is a darker Krider's Morph....

RyanAnt
02-04-2012, 02:24 PM
I am pretty sure my tiercel Red-tail is a Harlan's. What do you guys think? Do you think he'll get darker after the moult? rtsqrl<-- Ok not this one....

But this one:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14817634@N07/6818092881/

PeteJ
02-04-2012, 03:15 PM
Usually one like that will get darker or perhaps more reddish. But best guess it will just go darker as its predominant color is dark brown rather than dark brown and reddish.

RyanAnt
02-05-2012, 03:44 AM
Sweet! Thanks Pete! Looking forward to seeing how he turns out :)

- Ryan

moperegrine
02-08-2012, 11:25 AM
Here's a Harlan's for comparison to some of the other photos... Trapped him at 955g this January and he's off the creance. Should fly next week after bunnies.http://www.nafex.net/[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/Thor030A.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/Thor030A.jpg

Christian Hagenlocher
St. Louis, MO
http://http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/?action=view&current=Thor030A.jpg

Keith Denman
02-08-2012, 05:10 PM
My first redtail was a Harlan's I unfortunately lost all my photos to a hard drive crash. He was dark chocolated brown all over top and underside with yellow spots on his chest.

canvibe
02-11-2012, 01:49 AM
Here's a Harlan's for comparison to some of the other photos... Trapped him at 955g this January and he's off the creance. Should fly next week after bunnies.http://www.nafex.net/[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/Thor030A.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/Thor030A.jpg

Christian Hagenlocher
St. Louis, MO
http://http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/?action=view&current=Thor030A.jpg

Are you sure your Harlan's is a male? At 995 grams it could be a female.

Shokokuphoenix
08-19-2012, 10:10 PM
Here are some pics of a male RT that I released after his first molt.
His tail feathers were in my opinion Harlanish.

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/281BB93F-orig.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/A7B1FA6A-orig.jpg

http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz217/canvibe/Snapbucket/580E7E96-orig.jpg

Definitely a light morph Harlan's bird you've got there; that completely random-arse tail patterning is absolutely diagnostic as a Harlan's tail. Me and a buddy of mine trapped a little 740g male light morph Harlan's tiercel who looked a heck of a lot like that bird. Very similar tail, too.

PS: The only thing that's regular about the tails of Harlan's hawks is that they must be totally, completely random! I'm talking even as weird as the left and right sides of each individual feather being COMPLETELY differently patterned and colored from each other, and totally looking like they belong on different birds. ;D

RyanAnt
08-20-2012, 03:18 AM
Here's a Harlan's for comparison to some of the other photos... Trapped him at 955g this January and he's off the creance. Should fly next week after bunnies.http://www.nafex.net/[IMG]http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/Thor030A.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/Thor030A.jpg

Christian Hagenlocher
St. Louis, MO
http://http://s156.photobucket.com/albums/t30/missouribirdman/?action=view&current=Thor030A.jpg

Did you keep this guy through the molt Christian? If so, post pictures. I had a RT that looked exactly the same! No kidding, the barring on wings and tail were the same. I was going to keep it through the molt but unfortunately it got stolen out of the mews. I am just curious to know what he may have looked like.

moperegrine
08-29-2012, 01:50 PM
Ryan,

This bird flew off earlier in the year, and so I did not get to keep him through the molt... I still look at photos of him wondering what he looks like today...

Christian

grimmy440
08-29-2012, 10:28 PM
is it just me, or do the head/beak of the original pics look odd for a red tail?

Lowachi
08-29-2012, 11:16 PM
is it just me, or do the head/beak of the original pics look odd for a red tail?

cause the original isn't a redtail.....

moperegrine
08-31-2012, 12:26 PM
Are we talking about the first image? Right at the beginning of the thread?

If so, that bird is a dark-morph adult western red-tail. Juvenile zonies have slightly different field marks... Just wanted to re-clarify, since this was discussed at the beginning of the thread.

The beak doesn't look off to me, but maybe it's the picture angle?

PeteJ
08-31-2012, 12:43 PM
cause the original isn't a redtail.....
Sorry Rich, see post #3.

Lowachi
08-31-2012, 12:51 PM
Sorry Rich, see post #3.


I said yesterday my eyes were getting worse. I apologize.....againfrus)

moperegrine
08-31-2012, 03:00 PM
I apologize for not signing my last post- at work all my emails have my signature on them, and being at work I forgot to sign it. I apologize for violating the rules! I can't figure out how to edit it either. bummer.

Best,

Christian
St. Louis, MO

Lowachi
08-31-2012, 06:40 PM
I apologize for not signing my last post- at work all my emails have my signature on them, and being at work I forgot to sign it. I apologize for violating the rules! I can't figure out how to edit it either. bummer.

Best,

Christian
St. Louis, MO
no worries, Mario'll fix it toungeout

grimmy440
09-05-2012, 09:48 AM
yes, i was talking about the VERY first pictures, that started off the thread

RyanAnt
09-14-2012, 03:14 AM
Thanks Christian. I just noticed your reply. Guess we'll never know. Will have to trap another one to find out!

moperegrine
09-14-2012, 02:08 PM
I plan on doing that! Learned a lot this year, and should have better success in the future. Harlan's sure are pretty birds!

Christian