2012 gos imprint

[Richard]

I guess it's time to start my own thread on this bird. I'm still not sure on the gender, because it's a rather strange bird. It was pulled from a nest with severe quarry shortage in the vicinity. That's one of the things we noticed while walking in, searching for an alternate nest that seems to have blown down, and while taking the eyass. No birds singing, no squirrels chittering, no snowshoe hare sign, and no food reserves in the nest. This nest usually has four young, and I think that only the oldest and the youngest were still alive. The other bird was definitely a female and about 5-6 days older than this one. The other two probably became food as they passed away. There are no Cain and Able records with goshawks, but once they die, they do become food in a hard situation.

Anyway, we thought the bird looked like a female at first, because the tarsi and toes were swollen. After a few days of good feedings, the swelling went away, and it started looking more like a tiercel. Then the feet started growing and took on female length but tiercel skinniness; 4 3/4" from tip of hallux talon to tip of middle talon. The tarsi are also real long but skinny. The beak and cere look more male, but the weight is now up around 800 grams, which is way higher than a tiercel from this area should be at this age. The body looks real large, but it's hard to say, because it has the heaviest down I've seen on a gos.

It was very fearful when taken even though it was only about 17 days old. I think that probably had to do with the larger, older sister and having to fight for whatever food it could get. The morning after we took it, it cast a huge pellet made up mostly of mouse fur that was real soggy. I'm thinking that it only got whatever was left over after the other bird ate.

It has now calmed down and appears to be imprinted on me. We put squeak and small stuffed toys in the nest a few days ago, and it went right to playing with them. I'll be using the Brunotte method of imprinting on this bird, which is a haphazard way of doing things at best but has turned out some pretty good birds in the past. It consists mainly of spending lots of time with the bird, feeding by hand and forceps, lots of touching, and adapting to whatever the bird seems to need to continue in taming and training...

Here are some photos from take to today:
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Momma.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Firstviewofthenest62412-1.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Momandtwoeyassesshowing.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Around17daysold.jpg

[Richard]

I guess it's time to start my own thread on this bird. Here are some photos from take to today:[/IMG]

More pics:
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass7212.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Preening7212.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassplayingwithtoy63012.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Sleepingbaby7212.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassinnestplaying63012.jpg

[Goshawk635]

It will be an interesting thread to follow. Great photos! I love the aspen nests as we rarely see those here in Washington (a few have been found in that setting and several in alders in Western WA). A smallish female could be a bird to fly on your game base in Colorado. Best of luck to you and Becky!

Phil Smith

[colelkhunter]

Richard,
I am perpetually envious of folks that have Goshawks nesting in their area. Flying a gos has been one of my dreams for some years as a falconer. Now that I have one this season, I want to go and pull my own from a nest. There has to be a great satisfaction that comes with taking your goshawk from the nest to continue it's career. I have done this many times with coops and sharpie, but it just seems different with a Goshawk. Impending doom maybe....:D

[daphilster08]

Nice lookin bird! Look forward to following this thread and seeing him develop!

[wingnut]

Ya, neat looking bird. The little dude has a pretty hefty coat of down. You'll think you have a cottonwood tree in your house soon. I'm not familiar with the Brunotte method. Is he published? :D

My first two gos were pulled from a nest in the Black Hills. Both nests are inactive now and I was not able to locate another the last two seasons. Although I miss the experience I have to say getting a bird from Barry or for that matter any of the other breeders on here has certainly contributed to a smooth start in the imprinting process.

[harrishawk_79]

Ill be reading this thread good luck on ur up coming season

[Richard]

It will be an interesting thread to follow. Great photos! I love the aspen nests as we rarely see those here in Washington (a few have been found in that setting and several in alders in Western WA). A smallish female could be a bird to fly on your game base in Colorado. Best of luck to you and Becky! Phil Smith

Thanks Phil. I always thought that birds nesting in aspen were wed to them probably from being hatched in one. This nest had an alternate in a large lodge pole pine, so that kind of shot that theory. I hope to find the new alternate next year.

This is either a small female or large male, so it should be good for everything except jacks. And we have a big female HH with male backup for them.

[allredone]

Thanks Phil. I always thought that birds nesting in aspen were wed to them probably from being hatched in one. This nest had an alternate in a large lodge pole pine, so that kind of shot that theory. I hope to find the new alternate next year.


I suspect there is still something to your theory. Hawks of all kinds have been shown to "imprint" on nest surroundings. For good reason too!! Mauritius Island Kestrels were near wiped out by introduced tree climbing predators but a few cliff nesting pairs managed to hang on and today I'm told they are perhaps exclusively cliff nesters.

On the flip side of the trees vs. cliff equation before DDT extirpated most continental (not costal) peregrines there was a set that would nest in trees. They are working in Poland now to restablish tree nesting peregrines to take advantage of that available habitat. I'd like to see this done in the US. I wonder how many additional pairs of peregrines we could one day see of they would nest in old eagle and osprey nests? I'm told we see a lot of failures in cliff nests because some of the scrapes act like a bucket and the falcon ends up incubating eggs in a mud puddle in particularly wet years.

http://platform.votigo.com/fbcontests/showentry/2012-Birds-of-Prey-Photo-Contest/21429

[Richard]

I suspect there is still something to your theory. Hawks of all kinds have been shown to "imprint" on nest surroundings. For good reason too!! Mauritius Island Kestrels were near wiped out by introduced tree climbing predators but a few cliff nesting pairs managed to hang on and today I'm told they are perhaps exclusively cliff nesters.

On the flip side of the trees vs. cliff equation before DDT extirpated most continental (not costal) peregrines there was a set that would nest in trees. They are working in Poland now to restablish tree nesting peregrines to take advantage of that available habitat. I'd like to see this done in the US. I wonder how many additional pairs of peregrines we could one day see of they would nest in old eagle and osprey nests? I'm told we see a lot of failures in cliff nests because some of the scrapes act like a bucket and the falcon ends up incubating eggs in a mud puddle in particularly wet years.

http://platform.votigo.com/fbcontests/showentry/2012-Birds-of-Prey-Photo-Contest/21429

There used to be tree nesting peregrines in some of the SE United States; could probably be done again, but we would for sure want it to be a test population only to prevent "endangering" them all over again! They don't really like the openness the eagles and ospreys do. There were reasons for them nesting only in certain places; the rest is marginal habitat. Bridge nests have that water thing going on under them, and in many places they have people standing by in boats to rescue the young when they bale and land in the water. Cities have cars and windows and very low survival of the young. We do have way more peregrines than ever existed at one time before, but survival rates for the young appears to be way lower because of the habitats they are now using. There used to be four eggs in every eyrie, and now there are two or maybe three; possibly because there are so many other pairs competing with them.

I know; off subject....

[allredone]

There used to be four eggs in every eyrie, and now there are two or maybe three; possibly because there are so many other pairs competing with them..

I hadn't heard that. How interesting. Possibly due to the well documented drop in passerine numbers?

It seems there are more than ever only in some locations. Others have never recovered to pre DDT levels. There were tree nesting peregrines along the Missippi as well. I can only presume they were select trees that were on a bluff perhaps or mature forest edge... Such locations still exist.

[Richard]

Still vacillating on the gender... Will call it "he" until further notice. Strange, but after the extremely voracious eating just after we brought him home, he now just lies there in the nest and takes food if I play with it enough. If I'm a little late, he jumps up and comes to me, but after a dozen or so tidbits, he is back to playing around and acting disinterested.

Here he is as of this morning. There is actually a couple inches of primary, secondary and tail opened under all that down!

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass7512.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babypreening7512.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

I'm with ya Richard its a boy :-)

Harry.

[Richard]

I'm with ya Richard its a boy :-)

Harry.

But Harry! He weighs 870 grams in the morning before eating! That may be a boy up NE, but it's Ms Havoc's hunting weight. Then again, he may just have to lose a lot of weight. He DOES look like a male. Except that the tarsi are about four inches long... (may be an exaggeration) Toes are also long, but tarsi and toes are skinny like a male.

The photos in the previous post were from yesterday morning. This is from yesterday afternoon...

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass75122afternoon.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass7512afternoon.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Maddieandbaby7512.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassafternoon7512.jpg

Note how much feather growth there was over about a six hour period. And, as usual, Maddy had to sneak into the basket to "mother" the eyass; or help clean out any lost tidbits.

Oh yeah, here's something I found near the old alternate nest.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Mooseantler.jpg

I bought mice for Becky's snake this morning, and since they were fresh killed, I gave one to the baby. He bit at it a bit and then got a foot on it and tried tearing at it. I ended up assisting him with dismantling it for his first "hands on the prey" lesson. He was happy for the help and ate the whole thing followed by his regular quail meal.

[hcmcelroy]

Gulp! 870 I intended to say its a boy or a girl. :-)

Good to hear he wants help in eating.

Harry.

[goshawkr]

Still vacillating on the gender... Will call it "he" until further notice. Strange, but after the extremely voracious eating just after we brought him home, he now just lies there in the nest and takes food if I play with it enough. If I'm a little late, he jumps up and comes to me, but after a dozen or so tidbits, he is back to playing around and acting disinterested.

I took a goshawk this year as well (still havnt completely given up the notion of starting a thread, although its not looking like with all the other demands on my time....).

Mine has been acting the exact same way, and its really been puzzling. I have been trying to do OC work with her since I brought her home, but she just has NOT been easy to get motivated. Withholding food will certainly do it, when she is older.

I have also been really contienous because the first goshawk I raised with intense OC training turned out to be a runt. I have always been wondering if that was because I didnt feed her enough. This time, I have been playing OC games, then topping off after the session to make sure enough food goes in, but she is still turning out small.

I was certain when I took her that she was a female, but as I watch her grow, I was loosing confidence. She is tiny - like the size of some of our small wet coast male goshawks. Its been a while since I raised a goshawk, and even longer since I raised a female, but I thought the body growth was done by 5 weeks old. I am pretty sure this kid will be about 6 weeks old tomorrow. But when I weighed her a couple days ago she weighed in at 935. Her tarsi are exactly the same size that Angel's were, and she came from a territory about 3-4 miles away from where I took her. Her moma was nice and dark, like Angel was.

[allredone]

I took a goshawk this year as well (still havnt completely given up the notion of starting a thread, although its not looking like with all the other demands on my time....).

Mine has been acting the exact same way, and its really been puzzling. I have been trying to do OC work with her since I brought her home, but she just has NOT been easy to get motivated. Withholding food will certainly do it, when she is older.

I have also been really contienous because the first goshawk I raised with intense OC training turned out to be a runt. I have always been wondering if that was because I didnt feed her enough. This time, I have been playing OC games, then topping off after the session to make sure enough food goes in, but she is still turning out small.

I was certain when I took her that she was a female, but as I watch her grow, I was loosing confidence. She is tiny - like the size of some of our small wet coast male goshawks. Its been a while since I raised a goshawk, and even longer since I raised a female, but I thought the body growth was done by 5 weeks old. I am pretty sure this kid will be about 6 weeks old tomorrow. But when I weighed her a couple days ago she weighed in at 935. Her tarsi are exactly the same size that Angel's were, and she came from a territory about 3-4 miles away from where I took her. Her moma was nice and dark, like Angel was.

My first Wisco Female didn't top out at 1001 until she had 3 bars down on the tail, however old that is... At that stage I felt safe leaving her on hack unattended and with the daily flying she self reduced to 940 and then reduced her to 865 for pheasants. You're bird doesn't sound all that tiny to me?... Maybe 100 grams smaller? I guess that is smallish...? I saw her brother a few weeks ago and he looked really decent size! Got a good place to hack her? Maybe Steve might be willing to put her out with his new captive bred female? I think you're bird would have an advantage in age where his would have one in size. Could be a very compatible mix for some sibling play on hack.

[keitht]

Here are some weights on three chicks (western goses) pulled in 2011. Chick 1 turned out to be a very small female. Chick 2 and 3 males.



Gos Weights – three chicks pulled on 06/22/11 in Southeastern Wyoming

6/25/11
CHICK 1 -8 day old chick (Youngest chick)- 222 grams
CHICK 2 (R0119165) - 15 day old chick (middle aged chick) – 324 grams
CHICK 3 –(R0118368)- 17 day old chick (oldest chick) – 387 grams

6/28/11
CHICK 2 – 18 days old – 464 grams
CHICK 3 – 20 day old chick – 556 grams

6/30/11
CHICK 2 – 20 days old – 516 grams
CHICK 3 – 22 days old – 608

7/2/11
CHICK 2- 22 days old – 551
CHICK 3 – 24 days old – 644

7/4/11
CHICK 1 – 18 days old - 560 grams
CHICK 3 – 26 days old – 663 grams

7/5/11
CHICK 1 – 19 days old – 599 grams
CHICK 3 – 27 days old – 695 grams

[Chris L.]

Hi Richard

He looks great! Thank you for keeping a log of his progress. I look forward to the updates. Please keep the pictures coming.

[Takasho]

Great to see you with this one Richard! I must've missed it somewhere but what happened to Ms. Havoc?

I've seen you're birds fly and no doubt this one will be a killer! Sure wish I was still in CO to watch it progress in person!

[Richard]

Great to see you with this one Richard! I must've missed it somewhere but what happened to Ms. Havoc?

I've seen you're birds fly and no doubt this one will be a killer! Sure wish I was still in CO to watch it progress in person!

Ms Havoc hit a window a couple years ago and started going down hill. Last year she just couldn't seem to come back, and I ended up having to have her put down. That was heart breaking! We had about 17 years together.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/MsH42410.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/531MsHfeedingchick.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/MsHandBilly.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/MsHavoc13.jpg


This one looks to be a sweetheart; be it male or female. For a Colorado bird it is either a very large male or a very small female. A tweener fosho. If it's not positive one or the other by hard penning, I'll have it DNA tested. Doesn't much matter for hunting, but I'd like to know in advance for breeding.

You gonna make it to the NAFA Meet? We hope to but can't be sure yet.

[Richard]

31 days old now and we're still not sure on the sex! Very large male or very small female.... Here are some updated photos:

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass7812lyingdown.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass7812standing.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass7812feathergrowth.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass7812.jpg

Still extreme amounts of down, but the feathers are now showing through.

[goshawkr]

Here are some weights on three chicks (western goses) pulled in 2011. Chick 1 turned out to be a very small female. Chick 2 and 3 males.



Gos Weights – three chicks pulled on 06/22/11 in Southeastern Wyoming

6/25/11
CHICK 1 -8 day old chick (Youngest chick)- 222 grams
CHICK 2 (R0119165) - 15 day old chick (middle aged chick) – 324 grams
CHICK 3 –(R0118368)- 17 day old chick (oldest chick) – 387 grams

6/28/11
CHICK 2 – 18 days old – 464 grams
CHICK 3 – 20 day old chick – 556 grams

6/30/11
CHICK 2 – 20 days old – 516 grams
CHICK 3 – 22 days old – 608

7/2/11
CHICK 2- 22 days old – 551
CHICK 3 – 24 days old – 644

7/4/11
CHICK 1 – 18 days old - 560 grams
CHICK 3 – 26 days old – 663 grams

7/5/11
CHICK 1 – 19 days old – 599 grams
CHICK 3 – 27 days old – 695 grams

Keith,

How are these ages calibrated?

I trust the ages from breeders, who know when the eggs hatched.

I am very sketpical the ages from the "experts" who have seen a lot of babies in wild nests, unless they also calibrated their dates, for example by checking nests daily from before the eggs hatch on.

[goshawkr]

My first Wisco Female didn't top out at 1001 until she had 3 bars down on the tail, however old that is... At that stage I felt safe leaving her on hack unattended and with the daily flying she self reduced to 940 and then reduced her to 865 for pheasants. You're bird doesn't sound all that tiny to me?... Maybe 100 grams smaller? I guess that is smallish...? I saw her brother a few weeks ago and he looked really decent size! Got a good place to hack her? Maybe Steve might be willing to put her out with his new captive bred female? I think you're bird would have an advantage in age where his would have one in size. Could be a very compatible mix for some sibling play on hack.

My bird and her brother were both at the Partridge Fest in Spokane on the 30th. Body size was actually very similar. Our pals were teasing us that I had a male, and that he had a female. The foot/tarsi size was very different, and the head shape and beak size/shape were very different. I am confident she is a she, but she is not going to be very big I think.

As I recall, the body is done growing by time the tail is 4 inches long, and she is there now. I look at her head, and its tiny. I think she will wear the hoods I have for tiercels.

[Richard]

I took a goshawk this year as well (still havnt completely given up the notion of starting a thread, although its not looking like with all the other demands on my time....).

I have also been really conscientious because the first goshawk I raised with intense OC training turned out to be a runt. I have always been wondering if that was because I didnt feed her enough. This time, I have been playing OC games, then topping off after the session to make sure enough food goes in, but she is still turning out small.

I was certain when I took her that she was a female, but as I watch her grow, I was loosing confidence. She is tiny - like the size of some of our small wet coast male goshawks. Its been a while since I raised a goshawk, and even longer since I raised a female, but I thought the body growth was done by 5 weeks old. I am pretty sure this kid will be about 6 weeks old tomorrow. But when I weighed her a couple days ago she weighed in at 935. Her tarsi are exactly the same size that Angel's were, and she came from a territory about 3-4 miles away from where I took her. Her moma was nice and dark, like Angel was.

Glad to hear you have a new bird, too. With a weight of 935, it sounds like a female to me, but I also understand how difficult it can be sometimes. When mine went over 800 grams, I figured it was a female, but there is just so much about it that says male instead. I'll try weighing again tomorrow and make a decision from there, though I may still have the DNA test done. This one's tarsi and toes are way thinner than any female I've seen before, but they are pretty long. We've never gotten a female from this nest before, but it already weighs way more than the males we've taken. It will be five weeks around Thursday.

Harry, you were taking weights at 20 days old. I'm thinking that may be a little early for goshawks. Did you come to any conclusions with that time and weight? Perhaps, as Geoff mentioned, 35 days may be closer to "tell" age for goses. Cooper's and sharpies are pretty easy to tell early on, but goses, especially in cases like Geoff's and mine, can be difficult. But perhaps 20 days would suffice fro the majority of birds.

Were you also taking into account the natal location on the birds? Ours are rather small, but I'm told that the ones in California are smaller, and the langii smaller still. They don't recognize any sub-species any more other than Apache and langii, but there are plenty of size differences across the country. Of course, they also consider our NA types to be the same as EuroAsian types, and that seems a bit strange. And there are plenty of differences through that range, too!

[Takasho]

Ms Havoc hit a window a couple years ago and started going down hill. Last year she just couldn't seem to come back, and I ended up having to have her put down.

I'm sorry to hear that. I know you two had many good years together!



You gonna make it to the NAFA Meet? We hope to but can't be sure yet.

Probably not this year but next year is in Alamosa, right? I'll be at that one for sure! rockon

[Richard]

Well, I've been pretty sure since she went over 800 grams that this bird is a female. Becky and Laura have been working on convincing me otherwise, but it's just too large to be a mountain male. It does have small boned feet and tarsi, but they are way longer than a typical male from around these parts. Guess I have some changes to make on my reports now.... I reckon she's going to be a light weight.

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,

She should make a good all around hawk. Is she remaining totally tame?

Harry.

Harry.

[keitht]

Keith,

How are these ages calibrated?

I trust the ages from breeders, who know when the eggs hatched.

I am very sketpical the ages from the "experts" who have seen a lot of babies in wild nests, unless they also calibrated their dates, for example by checking nests daily from before the eggs hatch on.


George: What I have done is compile as many pictures as I could from goshawks of known ages produced by breeders. I can then use these pictures to carefully compare wild taken birds. Although not a perfect method, I feel I can get very close. I discovered from these sets of pics that for many years I under aged western goshawks.

And from the weights Richard has reported, I am very confident his bird is a female.

[Richard]

Richard, She should make a good all around hawk. Is she remaining totally tame? Harry.

I'm thinking that, too. She should be good for everything except jacks, and I usually stay away from them anyway. She is staying nice and tame. I'm sure that the fear she exhibited at the beginning was fear of being eaten and had nothing to do with imprinting on parents. She now allows touching all over with no fear nor objection.

[harrishawk_79]

Sounds like she is doing great and either way will be a great bird with lots of fun and she's Good

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,
Now that we know her sex there is little doubt that she would have imprinted by day 17. Right?

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard,
Now that we know her sex there is little doubt that she would have imprinted by day 17. Right? Harry.She imprinted just fine Harry!

She weighed in at 950 grams today. And some pics: left is today and right is the 8th.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasspreening71012.jpghttp://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass7812lyingdown.jpg

[Richard]

She imprinted just fine Harry! She weighed in at 950 grams today. And some pics: left is today and right is the 8th.

And here she is this morning; learned a new trick while I wasn't looking.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassononefoot71212-1.jpghttp://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass71212.jpg

[Richard]

Thirty six days old now and 950+ grams with 5 1/4" feet. I tossed her a quail this morning to distract her while I prepped her breakfast. She jumped right onto it and went to plucking and eating!.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass71212.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasswquail71412.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasseating71412.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,

Does she have fine bone? The feet appear long but light???

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard, Does she have fine bone? The feet appear long but light??? Harry.

That was one of the things that made it so difficult to sex her; even though the toes are long, they are thin like a tiercel's. The beak and cere are also small for a female.

Forgot to post these earlier;

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Killtherhino71312.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Killthatrhino71312.jpg

Having "killed" the rhino for several days already, the quail was no problem!

[BestBeagler]

5 1/4" feet! Nice! Looking great.

[Richard]

5 1/4" feet! Nice! Looking great.

I'd like for them to be a bit thicker, but they'll do in a pinch... ;-)

She jumped off the table a few times today; never had one do that before. They usually don't leave the table until they feel like going to the couch or a counter. Becky walked past, and she jumped down and followed her down the hall.

[Richard]

Changes today: she had a bit of a bad hair day.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasslookingup71512.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassback71512.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasstopknot71512.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Sounds like she is becoming active. I see color developing toward the end of the toes.

Harry.

[harrishawk_79]

Looking good what weight do u see her topping out at?

[jeffreyj]

Richard

Any plans on hacking this bird? I've an imprint male, 70 days old, and we're on day 26 of the hack. The results have been pretty nice.

Jeff

[Richard]

Sounds like she is becoming active. I see color developing toward the end of the toes. Harry.

She's becoming too active for our circumstances! I was at the hospital most of the day yesterday, and she must have gotten bored with her nest and the kitchen table area. She has been perching on the chair backs for a few days now, but last night she went to visit Laura in the living room; I guess she sat and sized up the parrots for a bit and then jumped/flew up onto the tray table with the bills I've been working on... Laura got her back to the kitchen by carrying the tray to the table and then turned off the lights to keep her there.

I made light weight jesses for her the other day but hadn't gotten around to putting them on yet. This morning I moved the screen perch to the kitchen and got her to step from a chair back to the fist and held her in front of the perch. She stepped right on and has been sitting there preening and watching the dogs since. Once she was on the perch, I attached the jesses with no problem. Guess I'd best get a bell or two on her soon to get her used to that, too.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassfirsttimeonsp71712.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassonbluescreenperch71712-1.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassonscreenperch71712.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyass71712.jpg

They grow up SO fast! And it looks like another day she'll spend alone, since I'll be heading over to the hospital again soon.

[Richard]

Looking good what weight do u see her topping out at?

She is 970 grams this morning. She may top out at 1000 or a bit more, but I imagine she'll fly at less than 900 grams.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassonscale71712.jpghttp://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassbach71712.jpg

[Richard]

Richard Any plans on hacking this bird? I've an imprint male, 70 days old, and we're on day 26 of the hack. The results have been pretty nice.Jeff

Unfortunately we have no place to hack a bird here. We are in a regular city block with kids, cats, dogs, and pigeon breeders, so it's just not feasible. I will take her out later on and release her to fly around in a small wooded area nearby, but that is for not more than a few hours at a time.

[hcmcelroy]

Ricahrd,

She is moving along rapidly and appears a happy one. How long is the drive to the place where you can fly her free? My free flight area is only 12 minutes away so I take young hawks out each morning for an hour per day. It is also a good hunting area so I start hawks in it too.

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard, She is moving along rapidly and appears a happy one. How long is the drive to the place where you can fly her free? My free flight area is only 12 minutes away so I take young hawks out each morning for an hour per day. It is also a good hunting area so I start hawks in it too. Harry.

She is a nice bird! The place I can take her to let her fly is about 15 minutes from home. It's one of our hawking areas with a few stands of large trees about 50-200 yards apart. Gotta check it for GHOs and RTs, though....

[hcmcelroy]

Good to hear you have a place so close to home.

I watched a RT soaring the ridge above the house this morning...not about to fly anything here.

Harry.

[Richard]

I'm really impressed with how well this bird is coming along considering the limited amounts of time I've been able to spend with her. With Becky being in the hospital, I was spending most of my time gone and just working with the bird early and late with maybe a little in between. She is still a real sweetie!

I returned Ms Bella to Scott on Saturday so that I'll have a chamber for the new one. I put her out in it while I was gone and she made herself right at home. I had put her nest on the floor in case she wanted to spend time in it. I know she was down there, because the toys were removed and scattered around. The bath is located high on the back wall, and she had definitely taken a bath. The high temperature was near 100 degrees, so that gave her some incentive.

I'm putting her out in the chamber at night and when I can't be around to control her wandering around the house. She has special places she hangs out and usually doesn't cause any problems, but here are times... Last night she got up on top of the refrigerator and punctured the bread and bun bags up there. I guess they have a nice consistency for squeezing. And, of course, she just HAD to land on Becky's head. Worst thing she could have done considering the neck surgery Becky just had.

Anyway, time to bring her in and let her eat some breakfast. I'm mostly just giving her whole quail now and letting her pluck and open them. She got proficient at that real fast. Last night she started at the wrong end but pulled all the innards out and left them in a pile before continuing.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasspreening72212.jpghttp://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassbathing72212.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,

She's looking good. Seems she is quite adaptable and feeling at home.

How is Becky progressing? Is the pain reducing?

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard, She's looking good. Seems she is quite adaptable and feeling at home.
How is Becky progressing? Is the pain reducing?Harry.

She is feathering out nicely and preens almost constantly. It's amazing the difference a day makes! When I went into the chamber to get her this morning she was on the shelf at the back window, so she is definitely getting around in there. And her jesses were wet and dirty, so she had been in the bath and down to the floor already.

Becky is improving daily. the biggest problem now is that she lost control of her left arm; can only lift it a little and has no strength in it. We're working on that with physical therapy. Gotta take her in for a check up soon, so the gos has to go back outside.

[Richard]

Here are some pics from this morning;


http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassback72312.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassupright72312.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasssideways72312.jpg

[FredFogg]

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasssideways72312.jpg

Wow, now that is amazing! That is one strong hawk to be able to perch sideways like that! LOL :D And with one foot tucked up and everything!

[Richard]

Baby sure is growing fast! You can almost see the feathers stretching out!

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassback72312.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasspreeningwing72412.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasspreeningtail72412.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasspreening72412.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasspreening272412.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyassonmicrowave72312.jpg

[colelkhunter]

it's funny to me to see the towel on the microwave. I pretty much had every flat surface in the house covered with something until i figured out where she liked to perch.

[Richard]

Preening pics;

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babypreeningwing72612.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babypreeningtail72612.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babypreening72512.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babybackside72612.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyback72612.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Eyasspreeningtail272412.jpg


She's having to spend a lot more time in the chamber because of aggression towards the GWP. The dog has a dark red hind foot, and she keeps grabbing it... I need to take the video camera out and get some footage of her playing with her tennis ball. What a wild child!

She weighed 976 grams this morning before eating, so I guess the 1010 she weighed yesterday was with a lot of food in the system.

[Richard]

it's funny to me to see the towel on the microwave. I pretty much had every flat surface in the house covered with something until i figured out where she liked to perch.

Every time we think we have all the bases covered, she decides to visit one without a cover on it. The worst we've had happen was one of them slicing into a nice new tv.... Fried a circuit board.

[hcmcelroy]

Great pictures. When will the train be down all the way?

Harry.

[Richard]

Great pictures. When will the train be down all the way? Harry.

If we are correct on the age, which we may not be because of her problems in the nest, I figure she should hard pen around the 10th of August. If she hard pens earlier or later than that, we may change our idea of her age.

[Richard]

Great pictures. When will the train be down all the way?Harry.

This is her tail this morning. The third dark band is now showing, but check out the length of the second light band!

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babytail72712.jpg

BTW, she's drying out from a bath is why her tail tip looks the way it does.

[Richard]

She now spends evenings and nights out in the chamber, has breakfast in the chamber or back yard and comes in for a while during the day. She chirps a bit at me occasionally, but no real screaming so far. She does cackle and foot her "kill" a lot when I toss it out for her, but doesn't mantle at all. I walk around her as she eats and reach down to hand her tidbits by hand. She'll take a few bites from the quail and then look up at me for a tidbit. I also sometimes get down and pull tidbits off the quail to hand to her. Sometimes she just steps off the quail and lets me do all the work.

I had her out in the back yard this afternoon for a little time on the bow perch. Seems I had the chair a bit too close, and she liked that better.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyonbow72812.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyonchair72812.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyonswivellingperch72812.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyonswivelperch77812.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyinchamber72812.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyblues72812.jpg

[BestBeagler]

I like the pictures. She's looking beautiful!

[Richard]

I like the pictures. She's looking beautiful!

Thanks Isaac. She's fifty two days old today if we figured her taking age correctly. If she hard pens before or after the 9th of August, we'll adjust the age for more accuracy on the pictures/ages. Here are some more from this morning:

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babysideview72912.jpghttp://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyback72912.jpg

The third dark band of the tail is showing fully now; probably was yesterday, as it's about 3/8-1/2 inch below the sheathing.

I gave her this morning's food on the lure for the first time. With the dogs running back and forth outside the fence and raising a commotion, she wanted to drag it over to the tomato patch. I stepped on the lure line and offered her some tidbits, and she settled in to eating. Then I brought her inside to bounce around a bit and lie down for a while.

[Richard]

I had to put a bell on her this morning. I left her sleeping on the table and came back to find her bird watching...

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Birdwatching72912.jpg

And here she is giving a sexual response to being petted.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Sexualresponsetopetting72912.jpg

[Ally]

And here she is giving a sexual response to being petted.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Sexualresponsetopetting72912.jpg

What a little hussie :P
She looks great. Right on :)

[Richard]

What a little hussie :P She looks great. Right on :)

She was even doing that when one of the doxies was snuffling her back feathers. She has certainly grown into a pretty little gal!

[Richard]

I let her get a bit too hungry this morning, and she was running back and forth across the window perch squealing at me as I approached the chamber. When I entered she spread her wings and started cackling territorial at me. I was wearing my black NRA hat with the "egg yolk" on the bill, and she took exception. When I got her inside I switched to the NAFA cap I usually wear, and she settled right down.

After eating her fill of quail, she played with the rhino and dogs for a while, snuck into the bedroom to wake Becky :-( , and is now taking a well deserved nap.

That's a yawn, folks! Honest!


http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Justayawn73012.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Breaktime73012.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

The train is getting out there...it will be there soon. I greatly enjoy hearing about her behaviors and the photos!

Harry.

[Richard]

She was afraid of the gauntlet when she was younger, so I put it in her nest. I think she has accepted it now. She flew down from the microwave to sleep on it this evening.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyongauntlet73112.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

I hope the fear is gone for good! She looks quite happy on it now.

Harry.

[Richard]

I hope the fear is gone for good! She looks quite happy on it now.
Harry.

She steps right onto it now and seldom bates except to try getting to another perch sometimes.

For some reason she carried her breakfast from the kitchen table to Laura's tray to eat this morning. The dogs gathered around her and chased the feather clumps as she pulled them off and dropped them. Then over to her ring perch for some after breakfast preening.

When she jumped up to look closely at Yokie, it was time to go back to the chamber...

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/BreakfastatLaurastable8112.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Afterbreakfastpreening8112.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Tail8112.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Wingstudy8112.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Timetogobacktothechamber8112.jpg



With her growing an extra long second light band on her tail, I thought she might have an extra long tail, too. Nope, the next light band is in and only about half an inch wide. The fourth dark band is also in now and it won't be long before she is hard penned.

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,

So the train is just about down?

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard, So the train is just about down? Harry.

It's mighty close. I'm thinking she may be a few days older than we originally thought. We'll find out soon.

I fed her out in the chamber kind of late this evening; gave her the first flashlight training. She was chowing down good until she saw her shadow off to the left on the wall. She checked it out and then went back to eating when I played with her toes.

[Richard]

Here she is this morning catching her (dead) quail, playing with it, eating it, trying to balance on the perch with it, and content afterwards.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Takingthequail8212.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Playingwithherfood.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Breakfastinthechamber8212.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Balancingact8212.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Baby8212.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Contented8212.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Nice set of photos! The tail looks good! Flashlite training is essential for all hawks...only pets could be excluded.

Harry.

[Richard]

Nice set of photos! The tail looks good! Flashlite training is essential for all hawks...only pets could be excluded. Harry.

Nope, even pets need flashlight training, because you never know when they might get out and need to be recovered in the dark.

That IS a good looking tail. Hopefully we'll be able to keep it that way all season.

[Richard]

Here she is this morning catching her (dead) quail, playing with it, eating it, trying to balance on the perch with it, and content afterwards.

Hey Dirthawking, Why was this edited? Was there something wrong with the way the pictures were entered?

[Dirthawking]

Hey Dirthawking, Why was this edited? Was there something wrong with the way the pictures were entered?


I fixed your picture spacing. Nothing more. They were all bunched up and trailed to the right on the screen. If you hit enter two or three times between each picture posted that solves the problem. If you look back I have edited a few of your pictures. Believe me, no content was changed in any way.

[Richard]

I fixed your picture spacing. Nothing more. They were all bunched up and trailed to the right on the screen. If you hit enter two or three times between each picture posted that solves the problem. If you look back I have edited a few of your pictures. Believe me, no content was changed in any way.

No problem. I was just wondering if that was why you changed it. I've never used Photobucket before and wasn't sure on the how part; self taught and not too well. ;-)

[Richard]

I awoke late this morning and figured the Baby would be starving with all the associated negative reactions that go with it, but, no, she was just happy to see me when I went out to get her. I brought her inside and perched her on the screen perch and fed her half a dozen tidbits while waiting for the meal to warm a bit. Then she ate very little of the quail I gave her. She weighed in at 1010 grams this morning, so she has definitely been putting on weight in spite of seeming to not eat much.

I had Becky check the tail feathers while I held her this morning; still blood in the shafts. She should be hard penned by Thursday if I aged her correctly when I got her.

She has been inside for about five hours now and is behaving very well. She spend a lot of that time play with her toy stuffed dolphin and a larger stuffed monkey. She tosses them and attacks, jumps and spins and foots. At one point she was on the floor in the kitchen, and I took the dolphin away from one of the dogs and tossed it over the screen perch towards the table just as she flew up to the table. She changed course slightly and snagged the dolphin in the air with one foot and landed on the screen perch with it.

She has been watching the Olympics quite a bit and seems particularly interested in the equestrian events. At one point she jumped off her perch and ran over to the TV, looked up at it, and then ran around back to see where the horse was...

I put her giant hood on the table, and she tossed the dolphin inside and followed it in. Before picking it up, she looked at the perch and jumped up onto it for a minute before turning around and jumping back down to continue playing.

She flew up onto the moose antler on the parrot cage and spent a lot of time up there preening. She wanted to lie down on it, but kept sliding down and finally gave up and went back into the kitchen and laid down on the giant hood; seems to like it up there.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyback8512.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babyandgyr8512.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Wingsspread8512.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Onscreenperch8512.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Headshot8512.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babypreeningonantler8512.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,

How are training her to the giant hood?

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard, How are training her to the giant hood?Harry.

I'm afraid that today was the first. I just placed it on the table with the door open wide. She only went in the one time, but she spent a lot of time lying on top of it; kinda became her favorite place today. She spent most of the day indoors without getting into any trouble. I'll probably have her in most of tomorrow, too. I'll probably start putting tidbits on the perch to encourage her to go into the giant hood, but I'll also just have her step off the fist into it. I also need to start tethering her indoors and out, too. We have a CHC picnic in a couple weeks and she will need to ride in the giant hood and be tied down quite a bit. Time to get down to business!

[keitht]

Richard: How many days old do you expect her to hard-pen? And if you have it handy, how many to pen for a tiercel?

I've never kept track of it as close as you apparently have.

[BestBeagler]

That large grey band between the black ones is crazy! Pretty cool. Sounds like your having fun with her. The baby imprint is fun.

[Richard]

Richard: How many days old do you expect her to hard-pen? And if you have it handy, how many to pen for a tiercel? I've never kept track of it as close as you apparently have.

It seems to me that the females hard pen at about 63-64 days and males are around 59-60. Harry went through that last year, so he may have it available for a male. Or Barry might know.

[Richard]

That large grey band between the black ones is crazy! Pretty cool. Sounds like your having fun with her. The baby imprint is fun.

I can definitely recognize her in a crowd of immy goses at a glance! Not that you often find them in crowds... I'm definitely having fun with her and enjoy very much watching the growing and learning curves.

Here she is preening on the antler again and watching Storm. She chases Storm all over the house; seems intrigued with her red hind foot.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Preeningontheantler8512.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/BabywatchingStorm8512.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Keith,

Checked my notes and this boy was not hard penned at 58 days but he was at 60. A few days slower than a female Cooper's.

Harry.

[keitht]

Thanks Richard and Harry for the info. I suppose the reason I have never been able to determine the exact date of hard-penning is that all of my gosses were wild taken and you can almost never peg a bird's age down to the exact day.

I really like the "gos on an antler shot."

[Richard]

Thanks Richard and Harry for the info. I suppose the reason I have never been able to determine the exact date of hard-penning is that all of my goses were wild taken and you can almost never peg a bird's age down to the exact day.

I really like the "gos on an antler shot."

We can usually get within a few days when taking a wild eyass.

That's a moose antler I found up near the nest where I got this bird.

[Richard]

Afternoon nap time:

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babylyingdown8612.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Babysleeping8612.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Lookin relaxed as ever!

Harry.

[Richard]

Lookin relaxed as ever! Harry.

A little more than just relaxed in the one. ;-) just after I snapped the one with her eyes closed, her head dropped to the glove and she slept for a while.

[Richard]

She laid down on the back of the couch, went to sliding, and turned around.

She got rowdy enough today that I decided to tether her for the first time indoors. She bated once, turned around and flew back up onto the ring perch. Then she went to preening and relaxing for a few hours before I had to put her back outside while I went to the store. She did a total of only three bates the whole time.

Now I have her tied to the screen perch in the living room, and she's doing pretty good up there, too.

She's hard penned today, so I guess she was a couple days older than we thought.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/settlingin8712.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Firstdaytieddown8712.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Sliding8712.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Backscreenperch8712.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Turnedaround8712.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Preeningtail8712.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Great photo collection Richard. Do I recall you thought she was 17 when taken so if 2 days older she was 19?

Harry.

[Richard]

Great photo collection Richard. Do I recall you thought she was 17 when taken so if 2 days older she was 19? Harry.

19 or 20; she wasn't hard penned on Sunday but was on Tuesday. She still imprinted nicely but seems to recognize Billy Bob as a "father figure". Either that or she just wants to eat him... He also seems to recognize her for what she is and seems interested but a bit intimidated.

So this is 63 or 64 days old. Still a few bits of down tipping some body feathers but hard penned in the flight feathers.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Preeningonring8712.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Preeningtail28712.jpg

[FredFogg]

She looks great Richard. I see she is a fan of the Lord of the Rings series! LOL

[Richard]

She looks great Richard. I see she is a fan of the Lord of the Rings series! LOL

Thanks Fred. Yeah, she watches every chance she gets; especially likes the scenes with horses in them. She was watching the Olympics equestrians the other day and jumped to the floor and ran up to the TV and looked up at the screen. Then she ran around behind it to find the horse. Then back to her perch to continue watching.

[Richard]

19 or 20; she wasn't hard penned on Sunday but was on Tuesday. She still imprinted nicely but seems to recognize Billy Bob as a "father figure". Either that or she just wants to eat him... He also seems to recognize her for what she is and seems interested but a bit intimidated.

So this is 63 or 64 days old. Still a few bits of down tipping some body feathers but hard penned in the flight feathers.

Since she is hard penned now and definitely imprinted, I guess I should switch over to the Shortwing Forum.

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Droppedtidbit8812-1.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Chillingonthehooddoor8812.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Weightafterbreakfast8812-1.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Checkinggianthood8812.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Backscreenperch8712.jpg http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q515/accipiter3/Onringperch8712.jpg

[hcmcelroy]

Adventures are right around the corner! Enjoy the photos.

Harry.