Utah and soapboxes w/online comedy confusion

[calebstroh]

You're an apprentice and this is an eyas..

Ya see, that’s the thing about relaying written comedy on an internet web forum. It just goes over some people’s heads! :D

'Course I have been called cryptic before.

Don't tell me nobody got the joke? I was hoping the emoticons would have helped.

Good luck with the Eurasian collared doves in the fields. When you find one let me know.

See how funny I can be! ;)









Seriously, I hope the bird find his place.

[scrumbrakk]

Caleb, and here I was gonna say something about uptight people that couldn't get an obvious joke, and the realized it was someone in our own state. Maybe if Chris came to more of our Utah Falconry Association events he'd know your sense of humor better toungeout (just in case anyone is unsure, I'm joking too)

[Chris Proctor]

Good luck with the Eurasian collared doves in the fields. When you find one let me know.




We have them in fields out here....but sorry, I won't share with you unless your bird will fly awesome and put on a good chase!

[Chris Proctor]

Caleb, and here I was gonna say something about uptight people that couldn't get an obvious joke, and the realized it was someone in our own state. Maybe if Chris came to more of our Utah Falconry Association events he'd know your sense of humor better toungeout (just in case anyone is unsure, I'm joking too)


Despite you joking, I'll tell you that I am the LEAST uptight person you'll ever meet, and I know how "colorful" Caleb is in just talking to him on the phone once. What I am getting at is, your little smiley faces won't tell that undercover officer from Utah who reads your posts, knowing that you're an apprentice, and asking for an eyas Cooper's hawk, that you're kidding. Looks bad "online"...... that is the truth. You're probably too new to Utah falconry to know, but that could turn into another Jason Jones situation if the wrong person read it and took it seriously.

Maybe if you'd hold your meeting when I wasn't working I'd come....one of these days though. But as for the events....I've never been that kind of falconer. I barely like the Sky trials. Since 1994 I've been to TWO sky trials and one King Fredricks camp out. I may start going to more though, my daughter might like them as she grows up. I'd rather be making hoods or chasing ducks though, lol :-) toungeout

[Falconer54]

[QUOTE=. You're probably too new to Utah falconry to know, but that could turn into another Jason Jones situation if the wrong person read it and took it seriously.

Go back to the late 70's, when the fish and game confisgated a goshawk from a falconer and gave it to a undercover fish and game officer and he infiltrated the club. The undercover officer befriended me. I had just moved to Utah, and they were after a couple of high profile falconers. I lived with one of the falconers, so I became a target so they could get me to inform. This falconer had helped the fish and game and thought they were friends. Flushed the informant out, but the fish and game made my life harder for years. They even offered me money to talk. If the younger people wonder why some of the older falconers act the way they do, this is one reason. Maybe things are different in Utah now, I hope so. There is a history.

[Chris Proctor]

Well, considering a lot of birds don't migrate, I don't use that definition to describe a passage because, well, it isn't true. I consider a passage bird to be one that has left the nest and is a first year bird in first year plumage. A brancher usually flys from limb to limb, so as far as I am concerned that is sustaining flight. If not, it would be on the ground. But just like everything in falconry, the regs leave it up to interpetation and that is my interpetation. LOL toungeout :D

Cooper's hawks are one migrating son of a b...
If a young, not hard penned, eyas can sustain enough flight to go 6 feet before it crash and burns, you consider that a passage bird? You're cracking me up Fred!

[calebstroh]

Despite you joking, I'll tell you that I am the LEAST uptight person you'll ever meet, and I know how "colorful" Caleb is in just talking to him on the phone once. What I am getting at is, your little smiley faces won't tell that undercover officer from Utah who reads your posts, knowing that you're an apprentice, and asking for an eyas Cooper's hawk, that you're kidding. Looks bad "online"...... that is the truth. You're probably too new to Utah falconry to know, but that could turn into another Jason Jones situation if the wrong person read it and took it seriously.


I wouldn't say uptight..."dry" maybe...peacee

And you've got to be kidding about the fishcop thing Chris? And it being bad for folks to read? Are you serious? Do you know the context with which the DWR and I work on a daily basis?

And more power to ya if you can really find huntable numbers of ECD's out in the open. You'd be the only one in the state...hell, the only one in the west!

Good thing you've been doing this for so long; I think you've really got a handle on falconry and the public image! You're a great American.

-caleb

[Chris Proctor]

I wouldn't say uptight..."dry" maybe...peacee

And you've got to be kidding about the fishcop thing Chris? And it being bad for folks to read? Are you serious? Do you know the context with which the DWR and I work on a daily basis?

And more power to ya if you can really find huntable numbers of ECD's out in the open. You'd be the only one in the state...hell, the only one in the west!

Good thing you've been doing this for so long; I think you've really got a handle on falconry and the public image! You're a great American.

-caleb


Yes, I am serious. It doesn't mean they WILL do it, but YES they have done it before. And despite you kidding it looks like you as an apprentice falconer are saying "I'll take it" in all seriousness. Caleb, they wire taped Jason Jones' phone for hell's sake, why wouldn't they get on Nafex every once in a while? Paranoid? Maybe, but regardless you should watch how you word things since you're so about "public image" being apart of the club. You say some pretty off the way things sometimes that leaves some of us scratching our heads at, who knows when you're serious...

Dude.....I watch the collards doves out on these farms every season, longer than you've held a permit. They stay in the tree, but are in an open, hawkable with a small longwing, spot.

As for your statement about me being a great American, long time in it, etc.....are you taking a stab or trying to be funny here? If you're trying to be a dick, please don't. Nothing I have said here was meant negative at you or anyone. You realize of course, I made one post about you not being able to take the bird (not knowing if you're serious or not) was a completely valid and harmless commet, right?

Also....you don't know me from Adam, but I am also not dry, in the slightest...lol. Some of the sh!@ that comes outta my mouth sometimes...

[JRedig]

C'mon boys, take it to PM. I know it's the moult, but this place is getting ridiculous.

[Chris Proctor]

C'mon boys, take it to PM. I know it's the moult, but this place is getting ridiculous.


Haha, Jeff I should start "another" online battles thread about why I wasn't angry whne I made these posts as well...hahaha.

[calebstroh]

Chris,

I guess we must agree to disagree, respectfully of course.

I think many times people over-analyze things, and as has been mentioned the internet is a challenging forum to relay sarcasm, humor, or delight. Even with emoticons, so it would seem.

I have had many dealings with our local DWR, and until such time it ACTUALLY causes you or the falconry community any perceived harm, please keep your opinions of my actions either to yourself or through private message. Or feel free to send one of the other board members an e-mail. Or better yet, become more involved and voice your opinions then. Voicing them here really does no good, for anyone…including the falconry community at large.

To be quite honest I was very surprised at your comments, and a little “taken a-back” by them. Maybe insulted is the correct term. As such, I may have been a little “crass” in my responses to you. I apologize for those actions, especially considering I did so on a public forum.

To be very clear, I was only making a joke about wanting the Cooper’s Hawk, the joke being about asking for Cooper’s Hawk information, as there have been several heated threads regarding the subject as of late. It was meant as nothing more than a kind-hearted joke. I actually chuckled a little to myself as I typed it. Just trying to keep up with our legendary comedian, Dan (aka Oldguy.) To reiterate, IT WAS A JOKE!

I will say no more on the matter, unless you message me privately. From now on I will be as drab and bland as possible in my postings, so’s not to raise the ire of any undercover forum police.

Best of luck to you and your falconry season.

EDITED: Sorry Jeff, we must have posted at the same time. -caleb

[Chris Proctor]

Chris,

I guess we must agree to disagree, respectfully of course.

I have had many dealings with our local DWR, and until such time it ACTUALLY causes you or the falconry community any perceived harm, please keep your opinions of my actions either to yourself or through private message. Or feel free to send one of the other board members an e-mail. Or better yet, become more involved and voice your opinions then. Voicing them here really does no good, for anyone…including the falconry community at large.


I think everyone, as falconers, should watch what they do and say online. You mentioned "I'll take it" where as the apprentice below your comment said "I want it, sigh but I can't". All I was saying was.....someone could read that the wrong way. Short of bringing up Operation Falcon (Jason Jones I thought would be enough).

You might work hand in hand with the DWR each day, but there are those of us who still like to remain off their radar for good reason.

Good luck with your season too man, I hope we get snow this year more than last year...

[goshawkr]

In the regs it states them as being able to sustain flight on their own......so I guess as long as it was hard penned and able to leave the nest and get caught on a trap it is a "passage".

Brancher's are just "branchers", and still considered an eyas (not to be confused with an imprint) bird by most falconers, shoot... I've taken brancher birds that still have down on their head but were running around the entire tree next to it's own nest tree....the bird couldn't "sustain" flight if it tried. Do you consider that a passage bird? The definition by falconers (not the state) of a passage bird is a bird that is on it's first migration. If it's still in the nest hopping around, it's not a passage bird by those standards....

Chris,

The one thing you are missing here is that it does not matter what Utah defines acceptable apprentice take, if an apprentice is taking in New Mexico.

Of course this is all theoretical....beause caleb was just teasing.

And as I recall, in NM apprentices are not allowed to take a coopers hawk anyway.

Legal take for apprentices can also be different from legal possession.

A year and a half ago an apprentice wanted a merlin here in WA. He was not legally able to trap a merlin, but could possess one. A friend of his, who was a master falconer, trapped it, reported the take on a 3-186a and then transfered it to him. All above board, all completely legal, and he ended up with his merlin.

[goshawkr]

I think everyone, as falconers, should watch what they do and say online. You mentioned "I'll take it" where as the apprentice below your comment said "I want it, sigh but I can't". All I was saying was.....someone could read that the wrong way. Short of bringing up Operation Falcon (Jason Jones I thought would be enough).

You might work hand in hand with the DWR each day, but there are those of us who still like to remain off their radar for good reason.

Good luck with your season too man, I hope we get snow this year more than last year...

If you want to remain off their radar, then YOU should watch what you say online or stay off line all together.

Personally, I think its giving those overzealous asses in enforcement too much power to cower in the fear that they are watching and about to pounce.

I realize that most enforcement officers are good honest folks.

But there are others out there who should be beaten within an inch of their life with their badges for the travesty the turn the "justice" system into. I lived in Utah for 15 years, and hunted and fished and even practiced falconry there. I know that Utah DNR had (has?) some real "gung ho" fish cops that take out all the stops in chasing after the "bad guys" where ever they may find them.

By modifying your behavior in the fashion you are suggesting, you are giving those p!@#$%# even more power than they already have, and your giving them more importance than they deserve.

One of the very best ways to fight tyrany in any form is to ignore it and live your life as you wish.

I am certainly not suggesting violating just laws and reasonable regulations, or any laws and regulations for that matter. Just going about your buisness as if you were free to say what you please without being harrassed for it.

[Chris Proctor]

If you want to remain off their radar, then YOU should watch what you say online or stay off line all together.

Personally, I think its giving those overzealous asses in enforcement too much power to cower in the fear that they are watching and about to pounce.

I realize that most enforcement officers are good honest folks.

But there are others out there who should be beaten within an inch of their life with their badges for the travesty the turn the "justice" system into. I lived in Utah for 15 years, and hunted and fished and even practiced falconry there. I know that Utah DNR had (has?) some real "gung ho" fish cops that take out all the stops in chasing after the "bad guys" where ever they may find them.

By modifying your behavior in the fashion you are suggesting, you are giving those p!@#$%# even more power than they already have, and your giving them more importance than they deserve.

One of the very best ways to fight tyrany in any form is to ignore it and live your life as you wish.

I am certainly not suggesting violating just laws and reasonable regulations, or any laws and regulations for that matter. Just going about your buisness as if you were free to say what you please without being harrassed for it.

It is hard to do. Myself and others have wanted to send letters to the DWR about certain things as of late that are just ridiculous, but we fear they'd just cross hair us. I agree with you though, I just wish it were that easy. The DWR here has made life extremely hard for certain falconers based off nothing just because they decided to do so. Some falconers moved out of the state because of it.

[JRedig]

Ok guys, knock it out of the park.

Don't clutter threads with off topic stuff, start new one's or go to PM.

[goshawkr]

It is hard to do. Myself and others have wanted to send letters to the DWR about certain things as of late that are just ridiculous, but we fear they'd just cross hair us. I agree with you though, I just wish it were that easy. The DWR here has made life extremely hard for certain falconers based off nothing just because they decided to do so. Some falconers moved out of the state because of it.

Well, I certainly didnt leave UT because of it.

My pal Layman has described me as a "...pugnatious guy that loves a good fight..." and after some reflection he is right about that. I never start them without good cause, but I also never walk away from them and I usually end them on top.

However, when the opportunity came to relocate, the Utah DWR was certainly on my list of things I was eager to leave behind.

Look - I obviously have a lot of respect for those willing to stand up to the bullies and fight back, since that is in my nature. I also respect those who would prefer to lie low and just go about their lives in the hopes they will be OK.

What I dont respect are those, on either side of that decision, that make a lot of fuss about how their way is the way it should be done.

[Chris Proctor]

However, when the opportunity came to relocate, the Utah DWR was certainly on my list of things I was eager to leave behind.

.

Every state has their issues, but I among many (obviously not including some), agree with you 100%. Despite saying that, at least we have it easier than a lot of states reg wise. To me it's not the regs AT ALL...it's the administration in UT that is over the falconry department.

[Montucky]

Caleb, as you can see the UDWR thing lingers and has been like this for a long time despite any really legitimate beef. It sounds like you are on the right track, taking a cooperative and positive approach...glad to see some new blood in the mix..they need it:)

[goshawkr]

Caleb, as you can see the UDWR thing lingers and has been like this for a long time despite any really legitimate beef. It sounds like you are on the right track, taking a cooperative and positive approach...glad to see some new blood in the mix..they need it:)

I have watched the squabble... er... feud between the Utah Falconers and the UDWR with quite a bit of interest. There is so much to love about living in Utah, and I have deep roots there (many family members were original white settlers). I have a lot of family that lives there. And I really miss hawking in the great basin.

Its easy to para-quote Rodney King and say "can we all just get along??" The common saying is that it takes two to fight, but it also takes two to get along, and therin lies the rub.

Many on both sides of the fence are willing to build bridges and work together, but there is a lot of bad history and bad blood that has been shed, and there are more than a few who are more interested in settling past scores than moving forward.

We should also be clear about this - the problem is perpetuated on both sides of the fight. Taken as a whole body, the falconers have not been saints in this. They are definately not blameless.

[Barticus]

I wouldn't say uptight..."dry" maybe...peacee


And more power to ya if you can really find huntable numbers of ECD's out in the open. You'd be the only one in the state...hell, the only one in the west!


-caleb
Caleb, When I lived in Northern California by Chico two years ago there were ECD's evrywhere. I hunted for pigs in olive orchards and the doves were there year round.

[calebstroh]

Caleb, When I lived in Northern California by Chico two years ago there were ECD's evrywhere. I hunted for pigs in olive orchards and the doves were there year round.

I'm sorry I wasn't being more clear. To iterate, we have many, many ECD's in Utah and throughout the western US.

However, I have yet to see ECD's completely out in the open, in a field large enough to fly a large falcon on. At least with any degree of frequency.

That last sentence is key.

I’m skeptical that this one field in western Utah is an exception to the entire continental ECD population…


-caleb

[FredFogg]

I'm sorry I wasn't being more clear. To iterate, we have many, many ECD's in Utah and throughout the western US.

However, I have yet to see ECD's completely out in the open, in a field large enough to fly a large falcon on. At least with any degree of frequency.

That last sentence is key.

I’m skeptical that this one field in western Utah is an exception to the entire continental ECD population…


-caleb

Caleb, I am by far no expert but I have seen it done. The key to flying ECD is not having a high flying falcon but one that flys at 200-300 foot pitch. Probably not something you want to teach your peregrine but for others that want to fly ECD, it is doable with a small falcon from a low pitch. So never say never!

And Chris, yes, a brancher that can fly 6 feet is a passage in my book. Prove me wrong and I will change my interpetation of the definition of a passage, otherwise, a passage bird is a first year bird in first year plumage that has left the nest, in my opinion! toungeout :D

[goshawkr]

And Chris, yes, a brancher that can fly 6 feet is a passage in my book. Prove me wrong and I will change my interpetation of the definition of a passage, otherwise, a passage bird is a first year bird in first year plumage that has left the nest, in my opinion! toungeout :D

:D

In the end, its not your opinion that matters. Or Chris'. Or Caleb's.


In order of weight, lowest to highest in importance, the opinion is:
The conservation/enforcement officer that writes (or dosnt write) the ticket
the Prosecutor that decides to either drop the charges or move forward
the judge.
If you disagree with the decision of any of those in that chain, you can take up with the next rung until you find yourself in jail. :D

[calebstroh]

Fred,

I'm in no way disagreeing that ECD’s can't be taken in such a fashion. In fact, I know of a few good slips that would be great for a small falcon coming down from a low pitch. I would love to see this, and have much respect for those that can/do.

Again, I was being cryptic and factious. It’s just one of those days I guess.

-caleb

[FredFogg]

:D

In the end, its not your opinion that matters. Or Chris'. Or Caleb's.



In order of weight, lowest to highest in importance, the opinion is:
The conservation/enforcement officer that writes (or dosnt write) the ticket
the Prosecutor that decides to either drop the charges or move forward
the judge.
If you disagree with the decision of any of those in that chain, you can take up with the next rung until you find yourself in jail. :D

See, that is where you are wrong Geoff! The only opinion that matters to ME is mine! toungeout :D

[calebstroh]

And in the effort of keeping the discussion open, FWIW, the Utah DWR has clearly defined the following:

(h) "Eyas" means a young raptor not yet capable of sustained flight such as a nestling or fledgling.

(k) "Fledged" means the stage in a young raptor 's life when the feathers and wing muscles are sufficiently developed for flight. A young raptor that has recently fledged but is still dependent upon parental care and feeding is called a fledgling.

(z) "Passage raptor" means a first-year raptor capable of sustained flight that is no longer dependent upon parental care and/or feeding

So by those definitions an apprentice couldn’t trap a sore hawk. For that matter an apprentice couldn’t theoretically trap a hawk still being fed by its parents, even if trapped many miles from its nest site. Which I think is silly, considering many raptors continue to be fed by the adults well beyond the “fledgling” timeframe and when fully capable of taking game themselves.

Anywho, as Geoff mentions though, it’s really up to the C.O.

[FredFogg]

And in the effort of keeping the discussion open, FWIW, the Utah DWR has clearly defined the following:

(h) "Eyas" means a young raptor not yet capable of sustained flight such as a nestling or fledgling.

(k) "Fledged" means the stage in a young raptor 's life when the feathers and wing muscles are sufficiently developed for flight. A young raptor that has recently fledged but is still dependent upon parental care and feeding is called a fledgling.

(z) "Passage raptor" means a first-year raptor capable of sustained flight that is no longer dependent upon parental care and/or feeding

So by those definitions an apprentice couldn’t trap a sore hawk. For that matter an apprentice couldn’t theoretically trap a hawk still being fed by its parents, even if trapped many miles from its nest site. Which I think is silly, considering many raptors continue to be fed by the adults well beyond the “fledgling” timeframe and when fully capable of taking game themselves.

Anywho, as Geoff mentions though, it’s really up to the C.O.

Yeah, I totally disagree with that definition because I have seen passage red-tails screaming at their parents and following them around to be fed in September, which is well into the trapping season. Granted, this is Utah's regs, not NC's. But with that definiton, one would have to ignore trapping that red-tail and move on because it appears to still be dependent on its parents.

Again, just like everything in falconry, regulations are up for interpetation and no one is going to agree on everything. But I will tell you this, I will take a bird that "I" think is a passage when I want to take it. Period! LOL :D

Oh yeah, here is our state defintions:


(1) Nestlings. Only persons holding general or master level falconry licenses may take nestlings.
Nestlings may only be taken from May 1 through June 30. No more than two nestlings may be taken
by the same licensee. At least one nestling must be left in the nest or aerie.
(2) Young birds. First year (passage) birds may be taken only during the period August 1 through the last
day of February, except that marked raptors may be retrapped at any time.

So according to our state regs, a brancher is a passage! toungeout :D

[goshawkr]

See, that is where you are wrong Geoff! The only opinion that matters to ME is mine! toungeout :D

Well, you can cricumvent the process some and plead guilty. Then your opinion would carry much more weight.

[Dirthawking]

Oh yeah, here is our state defintions:


(1) Nestlings. Only persons holding general or master level falconry licenses may take nestlings.
Nestlings may only be taken from May 1 through June 30. No more than two nestlings may be taken
by the same licensee. At least one nestling must be left in the nest or aerie.
(2) Young birds. First year (passage) birds may be taken only during the period August 1 through the last
day of February, except that marked raptors may be retrapped at any time.

So according to our state regs, a brancher is a passage! toungeout :D


I know when I lived in Colorado we had the same rule. Here is what I was told. Anything taken between May 1 and June 30 in first year plumeage is an eyas as long is it was obviously produced that year. Anything taken after August 1st is a passage.

[calebstroh]

This looks like a good thing to try and change the next time our regulations are reviewed.

[Chris Proctor]

I'm sorry I wasn't being more clear. To iterate, we have many, many ECD's in Utah and throughout the western US.

However, I have yet to see ECD's completely out in the open, in a field large enough to fly a large falcon on. At least with any degree of frequency.

That last sentence is key.

I’m skeptical that this one field in western Utah is an exception to the entire continental ECD population…


-caleb

Caleb,

I just left Fred Killpack's house. You of course came up and I mentioned how "skeptical" you are of my claims to collard's out in my fields. I didn't even have to tell him where my fields were.....he already knew. Fred even brought up a few other fields I forgot about where we've seen them regularly. These doves sit in the tree's adjacent to large open lots and fields for the most part. Other fields they sit on the power lines and poles.

Since you know of every field in the western USA that hold doves, I am surprised you don't know of these fields...I guess they'll stay our little secret. I'll make sure to post a lot of pics...lol.

[Chris Proctor]

Yeah, I totally disagree with that definition because I have seen passage red-tails screaming at their parents and following them around to be fed in September, which is well into the trapping season. Granted, this is Utah's regs, not NC's. But with that definiton, one would have to ignore trapping that red-tail and move on because it appears to still be dependent on its parents.

Again, just like everything in falconry, regulations are up for interpetation and no one is going to agree on everything. But I will tell you this, I will take a bird that "I" think is a passage when I want to take it. Period! LOL :D

Oh yeah, here is our state defintions:


(1) Nestlings. Only persons holding general or master level falconry licenses may take nestlings.
Nestlings may only be taken from May 1 through June 30. No more than two nestlings may be taken
by the same licensee. At least one nestling must be left in the nest or aerie.
(2) Young birds. First year (passage) birds may be taken only during the period August 1 through the last
day of February, except that marked raptors may be retrapped at any time.

So according to our state regs, a brancher is a passage! toungeout :D



Fred, in August the birds should be hard penned and fledged....it's not a brancher if they're on the wing and flying around.

[FredFogg]

Fred, in August the birds should be hard penned and fledged....it's not a brancher if they're on the wing and flying around.

Exactly my point! Not a problem here in NC! :D

[Chris Proctor]

Exactly my point! Not a problem here in NC! :D


Hahaha....to'che!

[calebstroh]

Caleb,

I just left Fred Killpack's house. You of course came up and I mentioned how "skeptical" you are of my claims to collard's out in my fields. I didn't even have to tell him where my fields were.....he already knew. Fred even brought up a few other fields I forgot about where we've seen them regularly. These doves sit in the tree's adjacent to large open lots and fields for the most part. Other fields they sit on the power lines and poles.

Since you know of every field in the western USA that hold doves, I am surprised you don't know of these fields...I guess they'll stay our little secret. I'll make sure to post a lot of pics...lol.

So wait a sec...are they in the fields themselves or are they on power lines and in the trees adjacent to the fields?

I see lots, and lots, and lots of ECD's near fields and in nearly hawkable situations.

But what good does an ECD do in a tree adjacent to a field? Or sitting on a powerline? How’s that gonna work for a stooping falcon?

I really think your missing my point and the reason for my skepticism. I don’t disbelieve you have ECD’s feeding in and near fields in your area. The whole reason so many folks piped up when you mentioned using a falcon to take, from a pitch, ECD’s in fields is that there are very few instances that one finds ECD’s further than 50-100 yards from cover.

That is my only point.

I’ll tell ya what, you take me to a field with 1000 (your words) ECD feeding in a field further than 100 yards from the edge and I’ll give you a shiny $100 dollar bill. I’m serious.

[Dirthawking]

I have fields near me that have ECD in them with no poles and only small trees. We, or the dog, usually kick them up out of tall grass. That is one of the reasons I started a thread about keeping a falcon from taking a high pitch.

So, yes, I for one believe him. Not that he needs me to.

[Chris Proctor]

Caleb,

I would LOVE to take your money. Considering you've never really gamehawked a falcon other than one season now, I don't take anything you have to say about "stooping falcons" or what is needed for a "proper" slip with much weight, no offense but that's just the truth.

The fields we have here have the doves in the fields, in the trees, and on the watering wheels out in the middle of the fields and on the fences out in the field, and on the power lines running through the fields or adjacent to the fields. They are everywhere out in those fields, as well as in town where it's not so hawkable. Fred said he see's hundreds out there, I swear it was damn near a thousand the last couple seasons. You know Fred Killpack, and you know he as honest as it gets....so ask him for yourself....but I still want your money. As for taking you out there though, that won't happen. I'll shoot lots of good pictures for people to look at, but I want to keep these fields as hawkable as possible (which means not a lot of falcons being slipped on them daily).

As for a getting a falcon to stoop them. All you do is put your bird up 1/4 mile away and walk over, they flush early usually and the bird stoops and chases. That's a typical slip. If you have a nice and steady falcon, put them up 1/2 mile away. The bird will soon learn the game and follow you over...

[calebstroh]

Well then, I look forward to seeing your pics.

[Falconer54]

I found those doves in a field a couple of times last year. First wingbeat from my bird they were off to the trees. Next day they were on the lines by the trees. My bird was right over them, and they flew down the lines. My bird wouldn't stoop, I have to give her credit for not wanting to fly through the lines. I figure that is why a gamehawk wouldn't stoop at doves. Hey, just another older Falconer who needs some learning how to gamehawk them durn chickenhawks.

[Chris Proctor]

My last Gyrlin crashed through brush and went through fences to get after birds. Every season is different here, but for the most part the bulk of those doves that are out on those farms are scattered enough away from most hidey spots that I think catching them with a bird like a Gyrlin will be a little easier.

Honestly, finding them in the area's I've told you guys about won't be the issue, I think the issue will be how mild is our winter going to be. If it's colder, there will be more birds tighter together out there trying to all feed from the same spots. If it's a warmer winter, they will be all over the place still. We'll see what happens.

[Chris Proctor]

I found those doves in a field a couple of times last year. First wingbeat from my bird they were off to the trees. Next day they were on the lines by the trees. My bird was right over them, and they flew down the lines. My bird wouldn't stoop, I have to give her credit for not wanting to fly through the lines. I figure that is why a gamehawk wouldn't stoop at doves. Hey, just another older Falconer who needs some learning how to gamehawk them durn chickenhawks.

How close were you letting your falcon mount up?

[Falconer54]

I was within a quarter mile, which is to close. My bird didn't fly very high last year, I expect it to be different this year. The field didn't have much cover either. They were quite away from cover, so I wish I would have approached it differently. I do think your Gyrlin will be the bird to fly them.