PDA

View Full Version : The Harris's Hawk Revolution Reviews



Flight
02-11-2014, 06:24 PM
Hey guys,

I am probably going to fly a chamber raised Harris next season. I was wondering what your opinions are on the book "The Harris's Hawk Revolution" as a source of useful information to those new to flying Harris's, and how do you rate the contenct as relevant to hawking etc. I know the Coulson's are pretty big names in the breeder world, as well as the hawking realm. However the book demands a sizable chunk of change(for me anyways) So I would like to know what you think of it.

Much Appreciated-
Mark

michael skvarla
02-11-2014, 06:32 PM
I haven't read it, but inquired on the Arkansas Hawking Assoc. forums a while back and got this response from a guy who flies Harris hawks:

"It is the most detailed, expansive book on Harris's Hawks ever published. You could teach a college level course on the subject with this book. I am very glad I purchased it [and] it is one of the best Harris's Hawk manuscripts ever written"

skooky20
02-11-2014, 08:12 PM
if you want to fly a harris it would be wise to buy it

rkumetz
02-11-2014, 08:17 PM
Worth every penny and then some.

Just don't drop it on your foot.

keitht
02-11-2014, 08:18 PM
Hey guys,

I am probably going to fly a chamber raised Harris next season. I was wondering what your opinions are on the book "The Harris's Hawk Revolution" as a source of useful information to those new to flying Harris's, and how do you rate the contenct as relevant to hawking etc. I know the Coulson's are pretty big names in the breeder world, as well as the hawking realm. However the book demands a sizable chunk of change(for me anyways) So I would like to know what you think of it.

Much Appreciated-
Mark

It is the most complete work ever done on the Harris hawk. Every Harris hawker needs this book. In addition - you should read the Desert Hawking series by McElroy AND anything on the Harris hawk by Martin Hollinshead.

These three make up the golden trilogy.

AdamS
02-11-2014, 09:41 PM
After reading mine I would gladly pay twice what I paid!

JChavez
02-12-2014, 01:01 AM
I bought it from the coulsons at the Arizona falconry meet
I've read some of it and it has so much info, the best money I've spent in a long time. It is a very detailed book

drmchsrmle
02-12-2014, 12:00 PM
I am flying two harris hawks this year. They are the first ones I have ever had, and the only ones I have had close contact with. Before I got the boys, I did TONS of research, then ordered this book. I LOVE IT! I am in Wisconsin, and the weather this year is the worst in recent history for keeping and flying Harris's. With the help of this book, and all the other research I did on my own, I am happy to say we have not only survived this winter, but have successfully flown almost every week since I got the boys. I have some falconry books that just sit on the shelf, but this one is worth every penny.

steveo_uk
02-12-2014, 09:23 PM
worth every penny. i agree with the statement that you could teach a college course using it, but its not surprising as you consider who wrote it. I got Jen and Tom to sign mine when i picked up my MHH from them in the summer. I wish there was something similar for every species of raptor.

robhawkyyz
02-13-2014, 12:34 AM
I'm curious?, is it a book for captive bred harris hawks or wild trapped harris hawks or do they give insight equally on both?

dbleyepatches
02-13-2014, 12:43 AM
I'm curious?, is it a book for captive bred harris hawks or wild trapped harris hawks or do they give insight equally on both?

Quite a bit of information including pros and cons of both captive bred and wild birds. More info on captive bred, probably because that is what they do.

hcmcelroy
02-17-2014, 11:03 AM
One of the very best hawking books. Every HH owner should have a copy.

There is a world of scientific observations in this book which is much needed in our conservative occupation.

Harry.

keitht
02-17-2014, 03:00 PM
One of the very best hawking books. Every HH owner should have a copy.

There is a world of scientific observations in this book which is much needed in our conservative occupation.

Harry.

Absolutely agree. But Harry is a modest guy.

No study of the Harris is complete without also reading Harry's works and Martin Hollinshead.

Hughmetcalfe
02-18-2014, 11:19 AM
Excellent resource, as is Harry's Desert Hawking IV.

Flight
02-20-2014, 09:28 AM
"It is the most detailed, expansive book on Harris's Hawks ever published. You could teach a college level course on the subject with this book. I



There is a world of scientific observations in this book which is much needed in our conservative occupation.



i agree with the statement that you could teach a college course using it

I guess this is what I was concerned about I love biology, history, and the like, but I was looking for information that I could directly translate into the field. When you say you could teach a college level course with this book
do you mean a college level course on hawking with Harris's, or a college level book on Harris's in themselves. lol

rkumetz
02-20-2014, 09:37 AM
I guess this is what I was concerned about I love biology, history, and the like, but I was looking for information that I could directly translate into the field. When you say you could teach a college level course with this book
do you mean a college level course on hawking with Harris's, or a college level book on Harris's in themselves. lol

Don't read anything into that comment. He meant that it is just a very thorough treatment of the subject of harris hawks and both hawking with them and breeding them. It is not an esoteric academic work on harris hawks. There is good science - biological and behavioral information but there is even more time tested advice on choosing, training and hawking with the harris.

Buy the book. You will not regret it.

Fwanck
02-20-2014, 09:43 AM
Agree with all of you! I bought the book and it contains all a harris hawker need, and more! Reading it makes me want to fly a cast one day, Even if I live in Canada... ;)

Flight
02-20-2014, 09:49 AM
Don't read anything into that comment. He meant that it is just a very thorough treatment of the subject of harris hawks and both hawking with them and breeding them. It is not an esoteric academic work on harris hawks. There is good science - biological and behavioral information but there is even more time tested advice on choosing, training and hawking with the harris.

Buy the book. You will not regret it.

Good to know!

I was afraid from the way it was sounding it would go something like "Chapter 1: Before there were birds there were dinosaurs..." lol :D

DirtHawker
02-20-2014, 01:08 PM
I got my FHH a few months before the book came out. I wish it had been the other way around, I would have done a some things differently. It has a lot of great information.

GlorifiedBirdDog
06-19-2014, 10:47 PM
It's on the way, I'll let you know in a couple weeks ;)

Megapode
07-09-2014, 09:08 PM
I am reading the book in anticipation of buying a captive bred Harris's Hawk later this summer or next summer.
It is a great book and worth the money.

My only concern is how inadequate the book makes me feel.
For instance Jackrabbits are the most hawked quarry in my area: the section on entering on hares suggest that I need to show the young hawk good, close slips daily in number that would require me to use both hands to count. Then to repeat that performance every day for a week.
I am willing to do what it takes to get my hawk going on jacks, but I am lucky to get a couple of mediocre slips in a days hawking. If I go out every day for a week I have used every hawking site I know by Friday.
I fully intend to find as many new hunting sites as I can in the next 2 months, but California is in a drought and half of my hunting sites have no rabbits this year.

My question for you is are others in this situation as well?
Would you wait a year to buy a hawk if you could not show it more that 5 to 7 decent slips hawking 3 times a week?

RyanAnt
07-09-2014, 11:09 PM
It is a great book with many journal citations to back up what they say. Their stance on carhawking was that anybody that does it is a disgrace to falconry so that is kind of whatever but great book for the most part and really detailed.
A female Harris is a pretty easy bird to fly and take care of so don't feel too concerned about that.

wingnut
07-10-2014, 09:26 AM
I love this book. It's a great read and the illustrations are top notch. I bought the book because I had decided to fly a Harris after flying imprint goshawks for 20+ years. I had heard that to get the most out of your captive bred Harris it should not be approached as you would a freshly trapped redtail. (I flew a captive bred female harris 25 years ago and flew it like a redtail. With a lot of success I might add). I was really hoping for a more detailed description of what to do from the moment your new hawk arrives and how to proceed from there. On page 137 they discuss manning and by page 151 they discuss entering. A total of 14 pages. The whole chaper 6 on Obtaining and Training is 48 pages. The rest is all good stuff and very interesting but quite frankly I was disappointed with the information provided about early training and found nothing new there. It is basically the same approach as flying a freshly trapped redtail.

So in conclusion I would say yes, buy the book, it's a great read but if you just want to know how to get you newly acquired Harris manned and hunting you could learn a lot more from talking to others who have successfully done it.

GlorifiedBirdDog
07-10-2014, 07:11 PM
Finished it, great volume of useful information, not just for Harris Hawkers. After reading it I would buy it all over again if I had to.

JRedig
07-10-2014, 07:51 PM
Finished it, great volume of useful information, not just for Harris Hawkers. After reading it I would buy it all over again if I had to.

Not to be a complete schmuck, but as a preapprentice, how would you know? confusedd

footbound
07-11-2014, 12:27 AM
Eric,
Just go hawking as much as you can with what you have. It will all work out.

GlorifiedBirdDog
07-11-2014, 08:32 AM
Not to be a complete schmuck, but as a preapprentice, how would you know? confusedd

With a bookshelf the size of mine, you start to see overlaps in information between the books.

Megapode
07-12-2014, 03:51 PM
Eric,
Just go hawking as much as you can with what you have. It will all work out.

Thank you for the encouragement.

My fall back is to take another passage red-tail hawk just as I have done for the last 2 years. A passage bird already knows how to hunt and needs only a few slips and a drop in weight to figure out that Jack rabbit is on the menu.
I was just hoping that I could train a Harris's hawk. It is the favorite of all the hawkers I hang out with. They are super tame and never try to fly off even when over hunting weight.
The hawks that are a couple of years old catch a jack rabbit nearly everytime we go hunting, but I was concerned that the low numbers of game would present a problem for a first -year chamber raised bird. Therefore waiting until next year when I can get a dog or better fields might be the right option for me.

CuCulaine
01-07-2016, 04:43 PM
Thank you for the encouragement.

My fall back is to take another passage red-tail hawk just as I have done for the last 2 years. A passage bird already knows how to hunt and needs only a few slips and a drop in weight to figure out that Jack rabbit is on the menu.
I was just hoping that I could train a Harris's hawk. It is the favorite of all the hawkers I hang out with. They are super tame and never try to fly off even when over hunting weight.
The hawks that are a couple of years old catch a jack rabbit nearly everytime we go hunting, but I was concerned that the low numbers of game would present a problem for a first -year chamber raised bird. Therefore waiting until next year when I can get a dog or better fields might be the right option for me.

The sad part about passage Reds is that they may be wedded to certain game, failing at others, such as Jacks. Harris arnt tame, they are fellow pack members who act like a dog pack, that includes you and dogs. They perform best as a cast, minimal, preferable a trio. They view the relationship as a pack relationship in a tier, sometimes a female will try to dominate you. Yes they will hunt over weight, in fact birds flown for a few seasons, you may find in the fall they are almost bang on for the starting weight in hunting. Then its gradually is boosted until the bird has a full crop but still hunts, see Harris's love routine much like dogs. You must know that what ever the parents dislike ie aggression calls will be transferred to the young, I disagree with your thoughts to leave them in that long, they should be removed as early branc
hers, but its your call.

rkumetz
01-09-2016, 10:45 AM
I love this book. It's a great read and the illustrations are top notch. I bought the book because I had decided to fly a Harris after flying imprint goshawks for 20+ years. I had heard that to get the most out of your captive bred Harris it should not be approached as you would a freshly trapped redtail. (I flew a captive bred female harris 25 years ago and flew it like a redtail. With a lot of success I might add). I was really hoping for a more detailed description of what to do from the moment your new hawk arrives and how to proceed from there. On page 137 they discuss manning and by page 151 they discuss entering. A total of 14 pages. The whole chaper 6 on Obtaining and Training is 48 pages. The rest is all good stuff and very interesting but quite frankly I was disappointed with the information provided about early training and found nothing new there. It is basically the same approach as flying a freshly trapped redtail.

So in conclusion I would say yes, buy the book, it's a great read but if you just want to know how to get you newly acquired Harris manned and hunting you could learn a lot more from talking to others who have successfully done it.

It is my opinion that the key point they make regarding the difference between a passage RT and a CB harris is that you don't want to overtrain and you don't want to create a food bond. This is a point that has also been emphasized by Toby Bradshaw. http://faculty.washington.edu/toby/baywingdb/traintips.htm

Neither of them wrote a lot (quantity wise) about it because it is a pretty
simple concept. I realize that particularly for someone who has only flown passage redtails it is sort of alien thinking but this is simply one of those times where you need to just believe and go with it.

Someone else commented about the Coulsons' opinion regarding car hawking. They also don't think that hawking squirrels with a harris is
a good idea. I am not going to argue one way or another but that is their
opinion and we all know that there are as many opinions about anything related to falconry as there are falconers having the discussion, right?

rkumetz
01-09-2016, 10:59 AM
My only concern is how inadequate the book makes me feel.
For instance Jackrabbits are the most hawked quarry in my area: the section on entering on hares suggest that I need to show the young hawk good, close slips daily in number that would require me to use both hands to count. Then to repeat that performance every day for a week.
I am willing to do what it takes to get my hawk going on jacks, but I am lucky to get a couple of mediocre slips in a days hawking. If I go out every day for a week I have used every hawking site I know by Friday.
I fully intend to find as many new hunting sites as I can in the next 2 months, but California is in a drought and half of my hunting sites have no rabbits this year.

My question for you is are others in this situation as well?
Would you wait a year to buy a hawk if you could not show it more that 5 to 7 decent slips hawking 3 times a week?

One of my wife's pet peeves is the new wave of pharmaceutical commercials that start out "if you have moderate to severe xyz disease"
Who talks like that? Not even doctors. So now you are saying "where is he going with this bit of nonsense?"

It is quite simple: you need to read most falconry books (other than those titled something like "the complete beginner's guide to xyz") with the assumption that he author is not addressing the topic "how to make a mediocre to adequate game hawk". The author is generally trying to tell you how to go for the gusto and create a kick-ass hunting partner and top notch predator. For gear-heads it would be like a book on tweaking your engine for top performance. If you read the book you can assume from page one that you may or may not have the right situation to duplicate what the author has done. If you have enough game to give the bird regular slips then life is good. One nice thing about the harris and particularly the male harris is that they are versatile. Run out of bunnie?
How about crows? ducks? Just try something else. Particularly in the beginning it is just pursuing and killing on its own that gets the bird going.
Basically NOT relying on you for food and becoming confident that it can secure prey with your assistance. My male first took mice, frogs, a turtle, and random small birds all summer. He tuned into the idea that a critter that moves is food.

If your situation is less than ideal you need to be creative and motivated.

If your situation is less than ideal and you are NOT creative and motivated THEN you may want to wait until your situation and/or motivation factor changes.

chuck
01-10-2016, 03:25 PM
chamber raised HH is the easiest bird to train, and the easiest to ruin....and when ruined, it can be very hard to undo the bad stuff, especially if you don't realize what you're doing wrong, and you continue on that path. I personally have not read the book, I hear it is a great read...you are doing the right thing by reading as much as you can before getting your bird... I would reach out to as many HH falconers with experience and pick their brains before and during that first season, HH falconers who have flow birds where you will fly birds, not where hh are flow in the books you have read, .. if you cannot consistently find game you will delay the development of your bird, and that bird will become more and more dependent on you if it doesn't end outings on a positive note... My first, and only HH I flew was amazing at missing game in her first season!!... I worked super hard at finding every slip I could find for her. in west suburban chicago, every slip is precious, on slip can take anywhere between 1 minute and 1 hour, two slips...two hours... three slips... well, if there's daylight left you are lucky and you may find a third slip in one day... my hawk went on an 0 for 77 slump (and I only counted the bunnies she could actually catch but missed) I was beginning to think something was wrong with her vision or her depth perception... she always gave it all she had, chasing hard, crashing hard, getting up and chasing some more... but...something was missing, I read everything I could find on HH (at that time the HH Revolution was not out yet)... I took her out on a couple of outings with a very experienced HH falconer and breeder for him to see, and get his feedback... and his feedback made all the difference in the world. the adjustments I had to make were so subtle that I sincerely thought my buddy was BS'ing me... when I cut those few grams of weight, and modified the way I entered her into game, things changed almost over night... when they did, I realized just how incredible a hunting bird HH are... she was flat out ferocious by the end of the season.. and her second season was even more impressive... my point is, books are great, even from the most well known HH breeders in the country... but if things aren't going right, there is nothing like honest feedback from an experienced falconer who is there with you watching, critiquing, and giving you honest, brutal feedback on your mistakes....For your first HH, pretend you are an apprentice, find a sponsor who will show you what you are missing... and above, take your big boy pills every morning, and DO NOT feel ashamed or embarrassed if your new HH sponsor tells you something that you may not want to hear, or feel you already know thanks to all of the stuff you have read... be humble, and above all if you cannot find five or six good slips per day in your area be prepared to drive drive drive as far as you can to get the bird the exposure it needs as soon as possible. I burned two week vacation looking for fields, finding places for my new bird to get all the chances it could.. my wife was very supportive (now she wants to kill me)... But without direct, personal feedback from an experience HH falconer it could be tough... be prepared for a challenge, and enjoy your HH when it starts connecting, and problem solving..their ability to calculate ans solve complex hunting challenges will amaze you.

CzNik2
01-12-2016, 11:38 AM
Thank you for that post I appreciate reading it... I am having the same issues with mine... But, having read your post I am hopeful that things will be turning around... Thank you again...