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View Full Version : Question about Oregon Falconry Regs. Your opinion?



Tnocks
01-21-2020, 07:43 PM
I have been reading through some of the OAR chapter 55 laws about the falconry regulations in Oregon and had a quick question. Are Northern Harrier's and other indigenous species such as Barn owls, Osprey, and White-tailed Kites allowed for use in falconry at the general and master falconer level? I'm curious because OAR rules are not very clear according to section 635-055-003.

Oregon falconry regulations: https://secure.sos.state.or.us/oard/displayDivisionRules.action?selectedDivision=2947
For that specific section (link here: https://secure.sos.state.or.us/oard/viewSingleRule.action;JSESSIONID_OARD=haDKSapYrw30 sByDXCdKHpet2UjAEM3wLxdLLe0QT_eLhD_6cPjJ!-213933845?ruleVrsnRsn=170219), subsection #6 says that "Only indigenous raptor species, raptors listed in 50 CFR 10.13 and raptors classified as non-controlled or controlled in the Oregon Wildlife Integrity Rules (OAR 635-056) are allowed".

Link to 50 CFR 10.13: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/50/10.13


Upon examining 50 CFR 10.13 (Federal bird migration species act, protected section), Harrier's, barn owls, osprey, and White-failed Kites are all listed as species on there. Additionally, all 4 of those species are indigenous to the state of Oregon. Would that therefore conclude that all 4 of those species are allowed for the use of falconry in Oregon? The wording can be VERY confusing and not all the way straight forward. Can anyone clarify this for me? Thanks!!

qball
01-22-2020, 12:33 PM
Moot point. None of those species are practical from a falconry standpoint

Steve Jones
01-22-2020, 02:44 PM
Moot point. None of those species are practical from a falconry standpoint
I've always thought that it might be possible to catch fish with a trained osprey. I've had birds that have flown to my fist with small quarry, and with the right encouragement it might be possible to get an osprey to do it with fish. There would be a lot of hurdles to overcome, not the least of which is making sure it would be a legal way to harvest fish.

But yes, for the most part harriers, barn owls, osprey, and white-tailed kites are not falconry material. Are they legally allowed for falconry? Federally yes. The way the law you quoted above reads to me is any bird that is either "indigenous" or is "listed in 50 CFR10.13" or is "classified as non-controlled or controlled in the Oregon Wildlife Integrity Rules (OAR 635-056)" is good to go. If it meets any one of those three, or is it four, it's good. But I'm not a lawyer, so take this free advice with that in mind.

Tnocks
01-22-2020, 03:04 PM
I know that none of them are good for falconry. I was just curious if I was reading it correctly. Thanks guys!

Captain Gizmo
01-22-2020, 03:18 PM
Moot point. None of those species are practical from a falconry standpoint

I'm not so sure about Marsh Hawks. I had a male Marsh Hawk come into my back yard on full harrier hustle, pull a wing over, and grab a mourning dove.
On the other hand the Cooper's Hawks leave a circle or two of dove feathers somewhere around the yard every fall as they come through on migration.

Regards,
Thomas of the Desert

qball
01-22-2020, 03:21 PM
I was fly fishing in Missoula and caught a Whitefish. I stunned it and threw it out for the Osprey that was attracted to it while I was reeling it in. The Osprey reacted immediately and plucked the fish out of the water and cores across the river to a tree to eat it.
I have heard that adult ospreys are almost like adult horned owls. Almost untrainable.

goshawkr
01-22-2020, 03:37 PM
Moot point. None of those species are practical from a falconry standpoint

No falconry species are "practical" for hunting at all, but some are definitely more practical than others.

Falconry is not at all about being practical, its about spending a lot of time with a bird of prey watching what makes it tick. If someone has a thing for something unconventional, so what? Most of us would get bored rather quickly being in the field with any of those species listed, but I dont see that as any reason to stop someone from training or hunting with one.

My read on the Oregon rules is that you can use the species listed...but I am not in Oregon and not a lawyer.

Montucky
01-22-2020, 04:59 PM
I have been reading through some of the OAR chapter 55 laws about the falconry regulations in Oregon and had a quick question. Are Northern Harrier's and other indigenous species such as Barn owls, Osprey, and White-tailed Kites allowed for use in falconry at the general and master falconer level? I'm curious because OAR rules are not very clear according to section 635-055-003.

Oregon falconry regulations: https://secure.sos.state.or.us/oard/displayDivisionRules.action?selectedDivision=2947
For that specific section (link here: https://secure.sos.state.or.us/oard/viewSingleRule.action;JSESSIONID_OARD=haDKSapYrw30 sByDXCdKHpet2UjAEM3wLxdLLe0QT_eLhD_6cPjJ!-213933845?ruleVrsnRsn=170219), subsection #6 says that "Only indigenous raptor species, raptors listed in 50 CFR 10.13 and raptors classified as non-controlled or controlled in the Oregon Wildlife Integrity Rules (OAR 635-056) are allowed".

Link to 50 CFR 10.13: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/50/10.13


Upon examining 50 CFR 10.13 (Federal bird migration species act, protected section), Harrier's, barn owls, osprey, and White-failed Kites are all listed as species on there. Additionally, all 4 of those species are indigenous to the state of Oregon. Would that therefore conclude that all 4 of those species are allowed for the use of falconry in Oregon? The wording can be VERY confusing and not all the way straight forward. Can anyone clarify this for me? Thanks!!

No those species are not allowed - but a series of revisions are actually being considered by the Commission in a couple of weeks involving liberalizing the wild peregrine permitting process, expanding prairie falcon permitting (statewide), allowing general class falconers access to wild peregrines (it was master only for some reason - Oregon falconers wanted that when take opened which was unfortunate) ....and allowing harriers for falconry.

The section you are referring lists the various species open for wild take - then also lists the sideboards for species "held". IN other words its a sort of confusing combination of what you can trap in Oregon, plus what you can legally hold as a falconer in Oregon (transfers from others for example)

As for the harrier - it is a viable falconry bird with a limited but notable history of use. Fran Hamerstrom flew them and one of her apprentices or biologists helpers apparently flew one or two imprint females and caught ducks on the rise with them. That is from a solid source. They are capable of a lot more than folks realize. Of all the years of prairie chicken leks observations by Fran - the only raptor she recorded successfully capturing a prairie chicken at the lek - was a harrier. They are not going to be much good after a sort burst of speed on birds etc, but they have tools that are surprisingly effective. i have trained and flown one that was a non-releasable bird trapped at a snowy plover sight...it didnt man easily but was flying across the room to my garnished glove 10 minutes out of the crate. IT was an adult male transferred as an education bird. I see their use in falconry in some ways as a nod to history, to Fran, and a cool way to learn more about a unique raptor. Of course the larger version is a falconry staple in New Zealand.

Make sure you are a member of OFA and dont hesitate to address such questions to your regional Director who will be able to get you good info. The club had voted on a number of rule changes over the last few years, and the current batch of rules about to be voted on by the Commission are a reflection of those votes. Ferruginous take was also one of them - but we didnt convince them of that one on this go-round.

qball
01-22-2020, 05:07 PM
Anyone catches a healthy prairie chicken with a Harrier I’m buying the drinks��

Tnocks
01-22-2020, 06:31 PM
No those species are not allowed - but a series of revisions are actually being considered by the Commission in a couple of weeks involving liberalizing the wild peregrine permitting process, expanding prairie falcon permitting (statewide), allowing general class falconers access to wild peregrines (it was master only for some reason - Oregon falconers wanted that when take opened which was unfortunate) ....and allowing harriers for falconry.

The section you are referring lists the various species open for wild take - then also lists the sideboards for species "held". IN other words its a sort of confusing combination of what you can trap in Oregon, plus what you can legally hold as a falconer in Oregon (transfers from others for example)

As for the harrier - it is a viable falconry bird with a limited but notable history of use. Fran Hamerstrom flew them and one of her apprentices or biologists helpers apparently flew one or two imprint females and caught ducks on the rise with them. That is from a solid source. They are capable of a lot more than folks realize. Of all the years of prairie chicken leks observations by Fran - the only raptor she recorded successfully capturing a prairie chicken at the lek - was a harrier. They are not going to be much good after a sort burst of speed on birds etc, but they have tools that are surprisingly effective. i have trained and flown one that was a non-releasable bird trapped at a snowy plover sight...it didnt man easily but was flying across the room to my garnished glove 10 minutes out of the crate. IT was an adult male transferred as an education bird. I see their use in falconry in some ways as a nod to history, to Fran, and a cool way to learn more about a unique raptor. Of course the larger version is a falconry staple in New Zealand.

Make sure you are a member of OFA and dont hesitate to address such questions to your regional Director who will be able to get you good info. The club had voted on a number of rule changes over the last few years, and the current batch of rules about to be voted on by the Commission are a reflection of those votes. Ferruginous take was also one of them - but we didnt convince them of that one on this go-round.

Thanks for that detailed info John. My in-laws live in the Bend area. My wife and I try to head over there every couple months to see them. The only thing that I am confused about is why go through the trouble of putting in a note about allowing native species in the 3rd subsection under OAR 635-055-0030 if falconers are not allowed to use any of those indigenous species (regardless of whether or not people classify them as good or bad falconry birds)? Is there a list of Lawfully-held captive-bred raptors that are permitted at the general and master classes?

Montucky
01-22-2020, 06:41 PM
Thanks for that detailed info John. My in-laws live in the Bend area. My wife and I try to head over there every couple months to see them. The only thing that I am confused about is why go through the trouble of putting in a note about allowing native species in the 3rd subsection under OAR 635-055-0030 if falconers are not allowed to use any of those indigenous species (regardless of whether or not people classify them as good or bad falconry birds)? Is there a list of Lawfully-held captive-bred raptors that are permitted at the general and master classes?

Yeah I probably wasnt clear there...they are making a distinction between species allowed in possession vs species allowed to trap in Oregon. If you read it again - the items 1-5 refer to "capture" related info and species allowed to capture
....and item number 6 refer to possession rules - outside and beyond capture limitations. in other words they are just saying there is a difference between what Oregon wants you to trap in Oregon and what birds you can put on your permit from elsewhere. ...

The possession of legally acquired non-indigenous raptors listed as a migratory bird in 50 CFR 10.13 is allowed. Only indigenous raptor species, raptors listed in 50 CFR 10.13 and raptors classified as non-controlled or controlled in the Oregon Wildlife Integrity Rules (OAR 635-056) are allowed. The possession for falconry purposes of hybrid raptors of species listed in 50 CFR 10 are allowed.

Montucky
01-22-2020, 06:46 PM
Anyone catches a healthy prairie chicken with a Harrier Im buying the drinks��
this same thing was observed with sharptail and harriers. They roll in rocking back and forth all non-nonchalant then make a very aggressive sprint to the grouse and go for a bronco ride. I have seen them do it on pheasants...

goshawkr
01-22-2020, 06:57 PM
this same thing was observed with sharptail and harriers. They roll in rocking back and forth all non-nonchalant then make a very aggressive sprint to the grouse and go for a bronco ride. I have seen them do it on pheasants...

There was a falconer in the mid '80s here in Washington who goofed off with a harrier one season and caught a few pheasant with it.

Tnocks
01-22-2020, 07:01 PM
Yeah I probably wasnt clear there...they are making a distinction between species allowed in possession vs species allowed to trap in Oregon. If you read it again - the items 1-5 refer to "capture" related info and species allowed to capture
....and item number 6 refer to possession rules - outside and beyond capture limitations. in other words they are just saying there is a difference between what Oregon wants you to trap in Oregon and what birds you can put on your permit from elsewhere. ...

The possession of legally acquired non-indigenous raptors listed as a migratory bird in 50 CFR 10.13 is allowed. Only indigenous raptor species, raptors listed in 50 CFR 10.13 and raptors classified as non-controlled or controlled in the Oregon Wildlife Integrity Rules (OAR 635-056) are allowed. The possession for falconry purposes of hybrid raptors of species listed in 50 CFR 10 are allowed.

I also sent this question to the ODFW Falconry email and they just responded to me. Here is what a biologist told me:

"Although the Federal regulations establish the framework for falconry in the U.S., the states can be more restrictive within our respective jurisdictions. OAR 635-055-0030 provides the limitations of the species and number that may be captured and held for falconry in Oregon. Barn owls, Ospreys, and White-tailed Kites however, are not permitted to be captured and held for falconry in Oregon. Northern harriers are not currently permitted to be captured, but the Commission will be asked to consider including the species for falconry under specific conditions. Lawfully-held captive-bred raptors are permitted, as indicated in OAR 635-055-0020, by master and general class falconers. Nonindigenous raptor species (not native in Oregon) unless they are classified in Division 56 rules, are prohibited from being brought into the state unless specifically permitted by Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife".

So it looks like you were correct about the whole capture vs possession indication. So If I am getting this correct, according to this biologist, a general or master falconer can use one of those 4 species for falconry if they acquire it legally either by captive bred or some other legal means? Man this is confusing....

qball
01-22-2020, 10:47 PM
I’ve watched them interact with sharptails for the past 15 years and have yet to see them (harriers) attempt anything other than harassing flyovers with no serious attempts. I have also had numerous flights at grouse buggered by a harriers causing them to flush so maybe the grouse do pay them some respect. I’d love to see the bronco ride.

wyodjm
01-22-2020, 11:16 PM
As for the harrier - it is a viable falconry bird with a limited but notable history of use. Fran Hamerstrom flew them and one of her apprentices or biologists helpers apparently flew one or two imprint females and caught ducks on the rise with them. That is from a solid source.

The person was Alan Beske. I'm not sure but Alan might have been a graduate student of Fran's. On a side note, I believe Hub Quade was Alan's apprentice!

Montucky
01-23-2020, 12:12 AM
The person was Alan Beske. I'm not sure but Alan might have been a graduate student of Fran's. On a side note, I believe Hub Quade was Alan's apprentice!

Oh Yeah ! Hub was the source!

Steve Jones
01-23-2020, 12:38 AM
Man this is confusing....
That's the short definition of most falconry regulations. :)