One disaster caused by imprint

[threetoe]

I was worried that this "Misprint" RT of mine would never take anything.
Lately she's been absolutely CRUSHING game with wreckless abandon.

Yesterday I experienced just why so many say that an Imprint is fearless and a natural born killer.

THIS BIRD IS FREEKING DANGEROUS!!

She tail chased a couple big Jacks on Saturday but didn't connect. I called her to the glove, hooded her up and gave her just enough to keep her on weight for Sunday morning.

She was 5 grams lower Sunday morning and we took her up to the high desert for Jacks. The wind was howling up there (flags standing straight out) and I tried to fly her but she just sat in the tree. I called her to the glove and took her back to the hills I normally fly. (no wind)

These hills overlook a large Golf club surrounded by beautiful homes. She chased a couple Bunnies but only got fur.

I was moments away from calling her to the lure and calling it a weekend when I noticed her bobbing her head. She busted off the rock outcropping and went into a tear drop. She was on something.

She went around the hill so we couldn't see where she went. We took off running but when we got there she was nowhere to be found.
I pulled out my receiver and found her down deep inside several HUGE rocks. (boulders).
My sweetheart screamed, "She got a bunny".
I looked down and saw it.

She had someone's cat. :eek:

With my gloved hand I reached way down inside and barely grabbed the cats tail.
I extracted both and put them down on the grass. THE CAT WAS HUGE. 15-17 pounds, lean and mean.
Sugar had both feet wrapped around it's head and the cat had Sugars face and beak inside it's mouth.
There was blood all over and evidence of an epic struggle.
I pulled my big blue towel and covered the already dead cat's body, I put my glove over it's head and then pulled the lure to trade the RT off.

This was not cool.
The cat was not a stray. It was a housecat playing.

I feel like c rap.

I got the bird home and washed her down with a spray bottle. I did not see any injuries. She was drooping her right wing.
I'll check again tonight.

I have trained a killer.

I hope it was a bad enough experience that she'll never do that again.

[Squirrelhawkin]

Cat scratches and bites are nothing to fool around with,I'd get her to the vet for some antibiotics. Nick

[sevristh]

As Nick said, you need to get her seen immediately. Her face will most likely be swollen by this time tomorrow if it isn't already. If you want to see what happens to a bite left untreated, scroll to the bottom of this page: http://www.mindspring.com/~uke/mew_progress/mew.html

That being said, attacking a cat is not necessarily imprint like behavior. My female was jumped by a cat while on a squirrel, and bit on the foot, and she still bated toward cats that were running away from us. It's furry and running, might as well kill it....

As far as feeling bad, it's not like it was a dog or anything USEFUL, LOL! ;)

[Jimmy]

Get her on antibiotics immediately, or she may be dead in a day or two.......

[tony123abc]

I had a passage that killed a cat that walked by her perch. She killed it and ate it, but she was screwed for about 6 weeks. Cats aint no messing around animal. I hope your bird does okay. tony

[Fawkes]

I don't think chasing and catching cats has anything to do with the bird being an imprint - I had a Harris that caught a cat once, luckly both escaped unscathed from the incident. Actually it was her first catch. They are bunny/jack sized and they run - what more does the hawk want?

Hope your bird is OK in the end! Did the cat make it?
Emily

[frootdog]

I'll be the broken record and say the bird needs antibiotics ASAP.

As far as the imprint thing, it has nothing to do with it. My passage RT killed every cat she saw in the field. Mine were all clearly feral as she never caught one near a residential area. The way I look at it is this, most every place now that has dog leash laws also have cat leash laws (believ it or not). Roaming cats cause so much damage to the environment, not to mention thier lifespan (if it is a pet) is significantly shorter 3 years average vs. 13 for an indoor only cat. If you let your cat go outside it's at your own risk. I own cats and they are indoors only. I never liked it when my birds caught a cat, but that's life. And at risk of sounding like a broken record again. At the Vernal, UT NAFA meet the biggest round of applause for the night was when it was announce that some lady had caught a cat with her passage RT for a misc pin. She got a standing ovation!

[goshawks00]

I'm all in for a cat leash law!! At least in the city. You are right in thinking it's not an imprint thing, though I think an imprint will try and kill most everything it can... There was a thread on IFF about an imprint eagle that attacked a severely wounded a woman in Thialand, it probably would have killed her it the falconer didn't rescue her..

ditto on the antibiotics
Barry

[outhawkn]

I think a cat killing hawk is worth its weight in gold...........clapp:D

[voslerdo]

I had a passage rt that killed two cats (feral). Also, one time, I was coming home from an unsuccessful hunt in my woods. My wife called to me as she saw me come towards the house to see if I was done hunting. If I wasn't, she wanted to get her yorkshire terrier inside. If I was, she would leave her out (because she liked to chase and bark at squirrels). I told her I was done, but when I got to the mew, I saw the yorkie had a squirrel treed. I cast my bird to the tree, but the squirrel stood perfectly still and he didn't see it. I decided to hit the side of the tree with a branch I found on the ground to see if I could get it to move. When I smacked the tree, it scared the dog and as she ran away, my rt hit and bound to her hard! I had to grab ahold of the rt's head and squeeze it to make him let go (a trick I had learned at one time or another). I put the hawk in the mew and took the dog (who couldn't walk) in to my wife so she could call the vet. Needless to say, she was pissed! This was her "baby". The vet diagnosed a bruised spinal cord and several punture wounds, but felt the dog would be all right if the swelling subsided. I got an "around the clock report" that whole night. She couldn't walk for two days. They were LONG days! Of all the dumb things I've this is the one thing she holds a grudge for. I learned a valuable lesson...
rtsqrl

[jfseaman]

I think a cat killing hawk is worth its weight in gold...........clapp:DI might be considered heartless but a house cat left to wander uncontrolled has to survive wild predator attacks so whats the difference.

Plus IMO cat's need the same controls as dogs. Licensed in the same places as dogs, vaccinated and under control, not left to wander and kill indiscriminately. House cats don't eat what they kill and it's a waste. House cats are responsible for the most near attacks on my hawks and falcons.

Don't get me wrong, I love all animals. I've had cats and have very fond memories of them. If I go to a friends house who keeps cats they seem to find me, even the ones that the owners say are not that friendly.

Don't feel bad for long and go find some more jacks.

[threetoe]

UPDATE:

I checked her yesterday evening when I got home from work.

She has damage to her beak (left side) and a scratch on the top of her CERE.
I see nothing else.
She was not drooping her wing.
I fed her up about 150 frams of rabbit.

I'll get her an antibiotic shot this afternoon.

She appears fine.

The Cat did not make it however. The RT kicked that monsters butt. :eek:

[Jimmy]

One shot won't cut it.......

[threetoe]

Her right eye is shut.

I HATE WORKING FULL TIME!!

I leave when it's dark and get home when it's dark.
I called my sweetie and she told me the bird has her right eye shut.

DAMN

[Jimmy]

Get off the internet and get her to the vet. Posting about it can wait til later. If you can't take her, your "sweetie" needs to.

[Iamtheweasel]

As the song goes....."Cat Scratch Fever!"

[threetoe]

Update:
12/16/08 5:00 pm PST

Took the Red Tail to Dr. Scott Weldy.

They found a deep cut on the top of her cere and a cracked beak. The doctors hope the crack doesn't cause deformation of the new material as her beak grows. If the crack lengthens we'll need to drill it to stop it but the doctors think it should be fine. I'm to watch it closely.

She's on Baytril for 10 days. 2 shots a day, IM into the breast muscle. 0.075cc

She's on the D/L for at least two weeks.

And right after she started smacking game. frus

Hopefully we'll be ready for the CHC meet in mid January.

Thanks all.

She "Should" be just fine.

[Zarafia]

Baytril, yeah, drug of the month LOL. Thing is baytril has been the most frequently prescribed drug Ive ever know with birds. Its always worked for me with a culture and sensitivity.
Baytril has been known to cause tissue death with injections. Quite frankly, in my opinion death of the entire bird is far worse and when you do IM injections it gets right into the bird.
I have gotten really uptight with my vet when he has insisted on oral meds. But he is just doing what he thinks is right.

Another thing on infections, I lost a red lored amazon to a raccoon attack. She survived the attack, but lost her battle with a bone infection. She had no obvious bite marks. She had one leg ripped from the socket, torn right out. But though she was on antibiotics right away she got sick from another bad bacteria. Aerobic, anaerobic, cant remember which it was. But it killed her.

Ok Ive vented now.
Good luck with your girl and I'm glad to see that my rt isnt the only one wanting to hunt and kill cats.

[threetoe]

We're not out of the water yet.
I hope she'll recover.

The doctor wants me to switch sides and locations for each injection.

[Zarafia]

Yeah, alternating injection sites will help insure no tissue necrosis.
Truthfully Ive given many batril injections to so many young birds. Myself, I never noticed any problems with it. Its also the cure for psittacosis. And you cant risk a birds digestive system shutting down sometimes.
I would definately give baytril IM to a bird in crisis. I have, and they usually live to tell.
Once you go to oral antibiotics you have to deal with natural gut flora death.
And since Ive never had a problem with it I still prefer IM baytril.
Ive recently (within the past five years) been told that hydrogen peroxide also causes tissue death. I dont really use it except to get out bloodstains, but my mom always used it on me and I dont think Ive suffered any tissue damage.

[h-bob]

Sorry to hear of your bird's infection. Cat's scare the hell out of me. My RT caught one last year, probably feral, but who knows, there were cottages near by. I was lucky as I was very close by one the catch and was able to dispatch it and trade my bird off quite quickly. Don't feel bad about it in the least, that is nature, that cat was out there killing as part of the food chain, even though it probably wasn't eating it's kills.

[frootdog]

Baytril has been known to cause tissue death with injections. Quite frankly, in my opinion death of the entire bird is far worse and when you do IM injections it gets right into the bird.
I have gotten really uptight with my vet when he has insisted on oral meds. But he is just doing what he thinks is right.

So on one hand you warn of the dangers of IM use, but then say you prefer that method, quite frankly it makes no sense.

Your vet is actually trying to tell you to do what is best and safest for the bird. Remember he did go to school for 8 years to learn how to practice medicine...so what he "thinks is right" just might be the right thing to do.

THE preferred administration of baytril in an otherwise "healthy" ie still bright and alert and eating well is to do ONE injection and then switch to orals. One IM injection is fine, but repeated injections IM greatly increases the risk. The Pectoral muscles in birds are VERY important inflight. The even safer method to give antibiotic injections is in a SQ fluid pocket. In debilitated birds you just have to bite the bullet and give injections, that is why we go with SQ fluids first and then give the injection in the fluid pocket.


Aerobic, anaerobic, cant remember which it was. But it killed her.

Baytril covers both Aerobes and Anaerobes


Yeah, alternating injection sites will help insure no tissue necrosis.

NOT true. IM injections of baytril "causes SEVERE muscle necrosis" - Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook



Once you go to oral antibiotics you have to deal with natural gut flora death.
And since Ive never had a problem with it I still prefer IM baytril.
.

Again not true. The gut flora that is affected will be affected either way. The route of administration does NOT affect the efficacy of the drug. It only affects peak levels of concentration in the blood. IV injections take effect the fastest and the drug is cleared from the body faster, IM slower, SQ slower still, and PO (oral) keeps the most steady concentrations in the body for the longest period of time.

[frootdog]

Update:
12/16/08 5:00 pm PST

She's on Baytril for 10 days. 2 shots a day, IM into the breast muscle. 0.075cc



Are you sure that is the dose? If so it is WAY too low. If they are using 22.7 mgs/ml Baytril even if it were the Large Animal Baytril 100mgs/ml the dose would be too low. However that strength should never be used in birds.

[threetoe]

UPDATE:
After two injections she appears to be feeling better. She's no longer lethargic and is acting more like her normal self.

Yes...0.075cc Baytril IM
I'm not sure of the strength. I'm just following directions.

[frootdog]

Yes...0.075cc Baytril IM
I'm not sure of the strength. I'm just following directions.

Are you drawing up the injections or are they predrawn for you? I just thought of something... there's no way to accuratly draw up 0.075. Are you sure it's not 0.75 mls? 0.75 mls would be closer to the correct dose. I would still do orals but that's just me.

[threetoe]

Day three:

She's still alive. That's a good sign.

OH..I'm drawing them up. Not much in each injection. Less than one tenth of a cc. My syringes measure that small and the needles are tiny.

I am told that the metabolism of these birds would be like ours on Nitro Methane. What takes a week for us to metabolize takes them mear hours. That's why you all emplored me to get her in IMMEDIATLY.

(Thanks Jimmy and the gang!!!)

Unlike dogs and cats who only require one injection and then orals after that, these birds metabolize the antibiotic so quickly that they want a low continuous flow.

Makes sense to me. It seems to be working and I'll not argue with positive results.
Weldy is the top Raptor vet in Southern California. He also gives UNBELIEVABLE rates (LOW) to Falconers.

[canadamanada]

In my opinion, any cat outdoors unattended is a stray/feral cat. The amount of rodents and songbirds they kill on a daily basis makes theem the single most invasive transplant species in most temperate countries.
My FHH once took a cat out at a small stream. I'd previously seen the thing hunting ducklings.

Justin

[frootdog]

Unlike dogs and cats who only require one injection and then orals after that, these birds metabolize the antibiotic so quickly that they want a low continuous flow.

.

And the best way to achieve that is oral meds.......

[tony123abc]

Good to see the bird is doing fine. Listen to your vet and all should be fine. Merry christmas, and hope ya stomp some jacks in Bakersfield.

[raptrlvr]

Dr. Weldy treated my eagle when he had Asper. That included surgery to put the meds right on the airsack. He consulted with Dr. Vicky Joseph and they saved the eagle. He is a great vet.

[threetoe]

Yea Jim
I trust him. He's one of the best.

UPDATE 12/19/08

Gave her the morning injection at 5 am.
I fed her yesterday evening so she was heavy...1270g
The temperature dropped last night to 31 degrees (f).

She was weak..very weak. I hope it was the weather.


She's fighting it. Still not out of the woods yet.

frus

[threetoe]

UPDATE 1/21/08

Day 5 on antibiotics IM.

I've been trying to bring her weight up but the cold is causing her to burn food like crazy.

The two injuries to her left foot have swolen up but otherwise she acts fine.
I will check her foot tomorrow and if it is the same or worse, I'll hood her and put her on a soft perch.

The crack in her beak seems to be stopped but I think we might need to drill it to make sure the crack doesn't continue.

I wonder if this Misprint has taken the LARGEST game for a RT this season. The cat was at least 15 and maybe 18 pounds. 6 - 7 times her weight.

WHAT A BIRD!!

[goshawks00]

I know of a couple of geese and at least one turkey taken by falconers this year, but don't know their weights.
Barry

[FredFogg]

UPDATE 1/21/08

Day 5 on antibiotics IM.

I've been trying to bring her weight up but the cold is causing her to burn food like crazy.

The two injuries to her left foot have swolen up but otherwise she acts fine.
I will check her foot tomorrow and if it is the same or worse, I'll hood her and put her on a soft perch.

The crack in her beak seems to be stopped but I think we might need to drill it to make sure the crack doesn't continue.

I wonder if this Misprint has taken the LARGEST game for a RT this season. The cat was at least 15 and maybe 18 pounds. 6 - 7 times her weight.

WHAT A BIRD!!

Are you keeping this bird inside? You shoud be until you get it in the clear. I would keep it inside the giant hood in your house.

[Ken S.]

I've heard of plenty of RT's and HH's that liked to take cats. A friend's HH has taken 2 this year already. It is dangerous for the hawk so it should be avoided for sure... but I don't think anyone should feel badly for having one less free-ranging cat out there.

Good luck to you and your hawk... I'll be hoping for a speedy recovery.

btw - you should probably lighten up on the "misprint" label... it is a hot button word (at least for me) and throwing that term around when talking to other Falconers is probably going to put up some barriers to you.

[threetoe]

Thanks Ken
I mean no disrespect to those who imprint. Now I have a lot more respect for breeders because of her.
I use the term to describe the bird I took (transfered). She was never trained by her parents and because at the age she was illegally removed from the wild she is neither a passager or an Imprint.

Hence...
"MisPrint"

She displays characteristics of an unusual bird.

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. That was not my intention.

[Jack]

I have been doing some personal research, not scientific at all, but it makes sense to me. I have seen a decline of rabbits in my area except for areas where there are leash laws. Now, leash laws here seldom include cats except maybe in town. And where they exist, cats tend to be ignored. They do kill song birds, but not anywhere near what the bird lovers figures are. Not even close. Dogs that are allowed to range free are as good as feral, and they tend to gang up and raid and hunt at night. They kill livestock and poultry as well as rabbits and just about any ground nesting or roosting birds. Coyotes and foxes have also been blamed for low rabbit numbers, but the areas where I am finding lots of rabbits seem to be covered with droppings from both fox and coyote. They are like a cat and tend to hunt what is easy and most common, and that is the cotton rat and meadow vole. Dogs chase and kill for fun as well as for food, so they tend to do a great deal of damage to the environment. The most popular breeds to the mutt, makes no difference. Around here they get together and chase and even kill deer. And for what it is worth you can not buy a rabbit out here. They simply do not exist. Used to be lots of them until they dropped the community rules, which included a leash law. We always have to go over into the larger towns where there are leash laws to find rabbits to hunt. So I think the real problem across rural America is that of the feral dog. Or the pet that is left to it's own outside most of the time. Thing is that you never hear anyone speak of it like they do about the cat. I hate a ferak cat. Have good reason to hate them. And I would recommend that if you see them in your hunting fields it is wise to leave and come back with a gun or a trap. They can rip your hawk to pieces if he catches one.

Jack

[threetoe]

Jack

The Harris hawkers locally have a "Scortched Earth" policy where they'll hunt a field until nothing moves. Maybe that's part of your problem too?

UPDATE:
It seems that my 1x FRT has become VERY popular now that she's finally "Turned On" and the lightbulb in her brain has clicked. She is attaining a sort of "Celebrity" status locally. The local falconers are all impressed.

I had her on my glove this morning and weighed her up. She was 1195g. I hunt her at 1090. After her weigh-in I put her back on my glove and walked out of the garage.

She dropped her head, squared he shoulders and took off of my glove in pursuit of one of my dogs, the smallest one. (about 15 pounds) You should have seen that dog haul a ss.
Thankfully I had her leashed to my glove so she was unable to get to him and kill him.

I think she's ready to take on the world. She's feeling better.

rtsqrl

[FredFogg]

Jack

The Harris hawkers locally have a "Scortched Earth" policy where they'll hunt a field until nothing moves. Maybe that's part of your problem too?

UPDATE:
It seems that my 1x FRT has become VERY popular now that she's finally "Turned On" and the lightbulb in her brain has clicked. She is attaining a sort of "Celebrity" status locally. The local falconers are all impressed.

I had her on my glove this morning and weighed her up. She was 1195g. I hunt her at 1090. After her weigh-in I put her back on my glove and walked out of the garage.

She dropped her head, squared he shoulders and took off of my glove in pursuit of one of my dogs, the smallest one. (about 15 pounds) You should have seen that dog haul a ss.
Thankfully I had her leashed to my glove so she was unable to get to him and kill him.

I think she's ready to take on the world. She's feeling better.

rtsqrl

Bill, I don't know if you are aware of this, but chasing dogs and killing cats is not a good thing! Your might think your bird is attaining a "Celebrity" status of sorts, but I don't think it is for the good! You better nip this in the bud or this bird is going to cause some damage. Just my humble opinion!

[Squirrelhawkin]

Bill, I don't know if you are aware of this, but chasing dogs and killing cats is not a good thing! Your might think your bird is attaining a "Celebrity" status of sorts, but I don't think it is for the good! You better nip this in the bud or this bird is going to cause some damage. Just my humble opinion!

...or grab the wrong thing and end up dead. It doesn't take to much of a bite on the head to kill a bird. Your were lucky once,listened to some of us on here and got the bird anti biotics right away. If you waited a day or so the bird would have been dead. Nick

[tony123abc]

Could have been. And I remember the Harris Hawkers out there. I went out with them once. I just do not get it. 5 guys 7 hawks and fields turned to nothing more than dust. I did a thesis in college about the potential of Harris Hawks as bio control agents in viticulture and pomology applications. Even then I recognized the DAMAGE they can do. That is why I don't fly with them guys or guys like them any more. I am glad your hawk is feeling better. I hope you don't have to go through this stuff again. Merry Christmas. tony

[h-bob]

ummmm 1 rabbit and 1 cat and you think your bird is a psychopathic killer? I would say spend less time bragging about a couple kills, drive a bit further and find some fields with cottontails in it and get your bird turn on to the "right" kind of prey.

My RT killed a cat once, it scared the hell out of me and I do my absolute best to avoid it at any and all costs. This year the dumb ass (my RT) bound and took down a small turkey, again I was lucky and he did not get hurt. These are reckless things to do with a RT on purpose, I know yours was not on purpose this time, but count your blessings as it usually goes bad. Chasing dogs is also a very bad thing, how would it react to a toddler if you happen to get too close to someones back yard?? Something to think about. Also, what would be the reaction if your bird grabs and/or kills a neighbours dog? I bet the news would not treat it very favourable.

I'm not typing this out to be a jerk, just want to point out that your are treading in very dangerous waters and I hope you see the advice as a "tossed rope".

Take care and have a great holiday season

[threetoe]

H-Bob

Thanks for the thoughts.
Unlike several on this board, I not going to use this board as a log book.
She has done more than one bunny and one tomcat.

The credit for the turn around of this bird can be given to my new friend and falconer Tim Brown of Southern California. He accompanied us in the field and showed me the little changes needed to get this bird to "Turn On".

WOW!! The difference is remarkable.

Do you let your bird fly near children? I don't. I keep this animal in control.

I drive long distances for areas to hunt. I've cultivated relationships with land owners and have permission to hunt private land. Some as far away from me as San Diego.

Many falconers fly RT's on Turkeys. Geese are big, Jacks are dangerous, so are squirrels. Eagles and other RT's can kill them and when the bird is on the ground anything can happen.

We all know (I hope) that flying is risk. Every time I release this animal I have little to do with the outcome. It is not a radio controlled airplane.

Besides, how does one train a bird to chase but only specific targets. RT's have been known to kill Coyotes in the wild. I believe I did my best to make the experience of killing that huge cat as unpleasant as possible.

I'm damn proud that I now have a bad-to-the-bone bird. I can PROVE IT!
Very few would have stuck it out after what I've been through and as a result I have been rewarded with a fearless hunter.

Did I mention her chasing (and nearly taking) doves? She knocked one out of the air but couldn't recover quickly enough to slam it while it was on the ground. The dove recovered and limped away. (flying)

She's chasing everything now. How do I tell her..."not that one".

I would like clarification of "Dangerous Waters". Statements like that predispose the subject. Who am I to fear?

:eek:

[tony123abc]

How long before this gets ugly? As a new guy who opened up this door, take it all in and decide what works for you. Trust me, you can get a Rt to be a very good game hawk. Especially in So. Cal. Yours may just do it! I know Tim. He has very good knowledge. He won't steer ya wrong. Good luck with yours and I hope she developes a good soaring style and brings many a jack to the bag. But to be honest, she needs work. I am sure she will do great. Keep at it and don't let good natured advice get ya all grumbly and such. tony

[threetoe]

Thanks Tony

At least I'm having fun now.
She slope soars now... Tim doesn't want me to introduce her to thermals till next year.

I owe a lot to him.

[tescobedo]

She's chasing everything now. How do I tell her..."not that one".


If you know she'll chase indiscriminately as a mal-imprint, then you also know that grabbing a pet or child is merely a matter of time.

[threetoe]

If you know she'll chase indiscriminately as a mal-imprint, then you also know that grabbing a pet or child is merely a matter of time.

I certainly hope you aren't a prophet.

HEAVEN FORBID!! :eek:

[tescobedo]

You've already stated that she bated at your dog following the cat incident. It doesn't take a prophet to see that unpredictable behavior from your mal-imprint will continue to rear itself.

So, I'm no more a prophet than you are.

[EricADugan]

Bill,
Im not so sure that she is an imprint. What makes you think she is? I was always under the impression that an imprint was a young bird taken from a nest that learns (imprints) you are its parent. I think most would refer to her as more of a brancher. If I recall correctly, when you got her she had fallen out of a nest (along with a male sibling) as a brancher and she was already able to fly when you got her from the rehab center. Does Tim think she is an imprint?

Also, I would be a little more careful about hammering the Harris folks. They have been flying the same fields year after year long before you or I were into falconry out here. Having flown Cali with them at almost all of their fields this year, I can attest that the game count is fine. Cali bagged #16 today with over 90 percent of them from the fields that the Harris's fly at every weekend.

Eric

[h-bob]

Wow, how to respond to that.

Firstly, Yes I can fly near small children and am confident that my RT will not attack them. I can fly beside playgrounds and residential areas and know that the no one or their dogs are in danger from my RT. I am also pretty confident, that my RT will not attack another cat as I did not reward him for the one he took, he will also not go after a fox because I kicked one up under him and although he watched it he did not even fly at it.

As far as your claim "that many falconers fly their RT's at turkeys" that is absolutely false. A RT that will attack turkeys will get hurt, it is not a matter of if, just when. The same goes for Geese. I'm not sure where you got this information, but it is false and most likely extremely exaggerated.

In the wild RT's eat small animals and do not take the risks that we train them to take. Coyotes, I highly doubt it.

I agree completely to the point that everytime we release our birds to hunt there is an amount of risk, but it is our responsibility to limit these risks to the best of our abilities, anything less is irresponsible.

They are most definately not a remote control airplane, but with proper training and handling you can control 90 = % of what is going to happen.

As far as "dangerous waters" goes it is the same "waters" that we should all fear, bad press, I am sure you will agree that one "bad incident" in any type of sport paints all participants in that sport with the same brush. PLEASE DO NOT READ ANYTHING INTO THIS, it is not an attack, only a caution to be careful with a bird which by your own words is "bad-to-the-bone".

I would like to re-iterate, nothing I mentioned earlier was meant as an attack in any way, shape or form, just some thoughts on how your posts about your and your birds season appear to be progressing. Please keep in mind that all I see is the parts you post. You and only you know and can read your bird from daily handling, we all post to get suggestions on handling techniques and ask for general information on theories about different ways to train various raptors.

[sevristh]

I certainly hope you aren't a prophet.

HEAVEN FORBID!! :eek:

Ya know... I can't quite decide whether you are really arrogant enough to think you are actually toying with the people who try to give you advice, or if you're just an idiot. It's become pretty clear that you are going to do whatever the hell you want regardless of what any of us say.

Furthermore, I am sick to death of your innuendos about "unlike some people on here". Dude, seriously, let's have it, who exactly are you talking about and why? Quit patting your own back long enough to explain this to me, please. You're proud of yourself because you took an imprint/passage/misprint/brancher whatever and got it to kill stuff?? If it wouldn't reflect bad on this sport, I daresay i'd love to be there when it attacks your neighbors child/dog just to say THEY TOLD YOU SO!

Hopefully you'll read this before it gets deleted...

[tony123abc]

Gettin close to ugly aint it?

[chamokane]

Gettin close to ugly aint it?

Maybe ugly, definitely boring.:D

[Jimmy]

Do you let your bird fly near children? I don't. I keep this animal in control.



Did you have her in control when you lost her for several days??? What about when she hit the cat? Think that can't happen again?? Unless she's on the fist and you're holding her tightly, you're not in control at all.

And I'm also curious about the innuendos. You've tossed that out on several occasions.

And may I ask, what has she done besides the bunny and cat?

[awahl]

Reminds me of a post I was reading in the IFF when Nafex was closed down for a couple of days last week. Difference was that the guy was working with an eagle, and decided that a lady in his yard was fair game. You can look lit up in the eagle section if you like. Of course all of the bad stuff is gone now. I want to say that there were 600+ posts. I read them all. There were plenty of warnings

I once pried a red-tail off my face. I would certainly not like to see anyone else have to do that.

[tony123abc]

That was bad news. I saw it coming a mile away. When he started talking about how his lovely Emily was soooo wonderfull. And he was warned by a few guys who worked crowns. They aint pets.

[Eagle Owl]

Reminds me of a post I was reading in the IFF when Nafex was closed down for a couple of days last week. Difference was that the guy was working with an eagle, and decided that a lady in his yard was fair game. You can look lit up in the eagle section if you like. Of course all of the bad stuff is gone now. I want to say that there were 600+ posts. I read them all. There were plenty of warnings.

Yep...he was warned plenty of times!!! That bird may have been sweet to him, but it is still a predator. Can't take that killer instinct out of wild animals...just look at domesticated cats and dogs. They still kill stuff!!


I once pried a red-tail off my face. I would certainly not like to see anyone else have to do that.

Been there done that! Had to pry one off my face more than once. It is not a fun thing to deal with and would be a very frightening experience for an unknowing adult/child. Not to mention what could happen to the bird.

[frootdog]

Jack

The Harris hawkers locally have a "Scortched Earth" policy where they'll hunt a field until nothing moves. Maybe that's part of your problem too?



Jack does not have any Harris Hawkers living anywhere near him.


Unlike several on this board, I not going to use this board as a log book.

I'm damn proud that I now have a bad-to-the-bone bird. I can PROVE IT!


Those of us who use it as a log not only brag about our achievments, but also post about our trials and tribulations. You seem to want to only brag about how great your dangerous bird is.


Furthermore, I am sick to death of your innuendos about "unlike some people on here". Dude, seriously, let's have it, who exactly are you talking about and why? Quit patting your own back long enough to explain this to me, please. You're proud of yourself because you took an imprint/passage/misprint/brancher whatever and got it to kill stuff?? If it wouldn't reflect bad on this sport, I daresay i'd love to be there when it attacks your neighbors child/dog just to say THEY TOLD YOU SO!

amennn

Exactly. Quit beating around the bush and spit it out. So far you seem to have problems with people who fly harris' hawks and people that keep logs on this forum. Anyone else you want to alienate while your at it.

[frootdog]

THIS BIRD IS FREEKING DANGEROUS!!

.

Need I remind you of your own words. Take them to heart.



I pulled my big blue towel and covered the already dead cat's body, I put my glove over it's head and then pulled the lure to trade the RT off.


I hope it was a bad enough experience that she'll never do that again.

You rewarded the bird with the lure, probably the same as when she catches a cooton tail or other game. How on earth is that going to discourage the bird? You seriously need to take a step back and look at the big picture here. You state you have plenty of private land so why on earth would you hunt this bird near people and places that put it in this situation? It is only a matter of time before your actions give the sport we all fight very hard for a VERY big black eye.

[Richard Eberhart]

I don't walk around with my feeling on my sleeve hoping people don't hit them but I post a daily log to keep people posted on my progress. If you don't want to read it don't look at it. As for your killer, we all fly birds of prey, Look it up they are all killers. Most don't think it is OK to go after dogs and cats. I don't fly HH yet, but those that do are not taking anything away from the sport. Your bird killing house cats will destroy the honor that falconry represents. Good luck with your killer, Stay away from my house.