Who's Imprinting in'09?

[Saluqi]

What are you going to imprint?

What strategy will you use?

[everetkhorton]

Paul:
I have been giving a imprint a lot of thought, the biggest draw back for me is keeping the bird in the house, my daughter has allergy's real bad. If she has an attack she has to go to the hospital for a shot. She does not live at home anymore but I will just not take the chance. I would like to try a cooper hawk. I am not sure how I would do it, I would read all the post on the forum for a start.

[KidK]

A goshawk (captive or wild take perhaps) OR a Cooper's hawk.. one or the other for sure..

Going to jump on the band wagon and try the tame hack.

I hope I can make Bryant a nice female goshawk to catch ducks, squirrels and snowshoes with.

[goshawks00]

Paul, I've been mulling this over for the best part of a year now... and I still don't know... if Rockette the Finnish female does the deed, I will be flying a new Fin/NA cross male...something new, never lown a mutt gos. Or maybe my natural pair of Fins will go this year...if so, it will be a full Fin. though I'm not sure of what flavor. Then there is a possiblity of a Euro spar... and if that doesn't work, maybe a new female coop, as I am leaning on making a breeding pair.
Which ever one ..it will be imprinted and tame hacked, got some new idea to try..
Barry

Oh and I keep getting these calls from guys offering HHs, but I just don't think I can pull the trigger on one yet?

How about you?

[Saluqi]

Paul, I've been mulling this over for the best part of a year now... and I still don't know... if Rockette the Finnish female does the deed, I will be flying a new Fin/NA cross male...something new, never lown a mutt gos. Or maybe my natural pair of Fins will go this year...if so, it will be a full Fin. though I'm not sure of what flavor. Then there is a possiblity of a Euro spar... and if that doesn't work, maybe a new female coop, as I am leaning on making a breeding pair.
Which ever one ..it will be imprinted and tame hacked, got some new idea to try..
Barry

Oh and I keep getting these calls from guys offering HHs, but I just don't think I can pull the trigger on one yet?

How about you?


Wow! You have a got a ton of options Barry!! It's nice to have options. No, no new birds for me, both of my gosses came through the season just fine, so I'll be sticking with them for next year. I'm done flying Frieda for the year, and Lou I'll keep going a bit longer, though they're predicting 70's this week (15 degrees above normal!) so I may hunt today and tomorrow and call it quits.

[hcf]

hi guys,
i shall be keeping back a couple of finnish females , both of which will be imprinted. i also hope to breed my 7/8 gyrs which are very white , so female from them would be nice. depending on what colours my 3/4 gyrs produce ,one of them.oh and perhaps a female peregrine. all to be imprited
the joys of having a breeding facilitycrazyy

andy

[raptrlvr]

Paul I am still waiting to hear from NM wether or not I get to take a gos this season. They were supposed to hold the drawing on Friday, but, for some reason they didn't according to a couple of the NM falconers. If I pull a gos, I will imprint. The last I heard, no one in NM put in for the peregrine take this season.

[Saluqi]

Paul I am still waiting to hear from NM wether or not I get to take a gos this season. They were supposed to hold the drawing on Friday, but, for some reason they didn't according to a couple of the NM falconers. If I pull a gos, I will imprint. The last I heard, no one in NM put in for the peregrine take this season.

Welcome to the darkside!!! Well, maybe I'll ask them for another drawing and throw my name for peregrine.....

[Falcon Boy]

Paul I am still waiting to hear from NM wether or not I get to take a gos this season. They were supposed to hold the drawing on Friday, but, for some reason they didn't according to a couple of the NM falconers. If I pull a gos, I will imprint. The last I heard, no one in NM put in for the peregrine take this season.

If they'd open it up to nonresidents you'd get more people putting in for the peregrine....at least one anyway toungeout

[Saluqi]

If they'd open it up to nonresidents you'd get more people putting in for the peregrine....at least one anyway toungeout

We asked, state said "NO!!!"

[Falcon Boy]

Yea i know it....

[tumble]

Hoping to pull a wild female gos. I'm still trying to gather tips from experienced goshawkers for my strategy, but I suppose it will probably end up being more or less a recipe bird for my first one, with some variations. A coops is tempting but I need a duck and hare slayer for now.

[raptrlvr]

Paul, If I don't get the gos draw, do you think we could convince NM to let us pull a peregrine? I know where to go from last season. I am sure they would not go for it.

[jfseaman]

If I do, it will probably be a Gyr x Barbary tiercel.

Same as I have done with the last four.

Take him to a clean tank with food in it. In the house, watching TV, with the dogs. Lure in the tank, glove in the tank, hood in the tank. Make a game of hooding with light in weight oversized hood. Food tied to the lure in the tank when he can start tearing it himself. Running around in the yard until he trys to fly. Telemetry on before hard penned. Lots of interaction. Taking to public places. Jesses on when tail shows through down. Tethered when jumps out of tank too often. Tame hacked from the truck.

A difference this time is I want a high flyer so there's more to the program but it's worked before.

2 of 4 are silent except in spring when courting, the younger 2 are more 'talkative', however, if I turn my back and walk away or am obviously doing something else they are silent. Other people can be around the birds and they are silent, it's just me that they talk to. Which is good for future breeders.

[BestBeagler]

Tercil NA Gos Following Barry’s method or at least try :) I really want to tame hack but I am dead scared of some idiot shooting it or it getting drove over. I am still wondering if it would be a good idea to get pictures printed of the bird with my phone number and some info on them and distribute them through the neighborhood. What do you think? Isaac

[sevristh]

Tercil NA Gos Following Barry’s method or at least try :) I really want to tame hack but I am dead scared of some idiot shooting it or it getting drove over. I am still wondering if it would be a good idea to get pictures printed of the bird with my phone number and some info on them and distribute them through the neighborhood. What do you think? Isaac

I think I would keep it to myself. John Q Public is an idiot an normally doesn't notice anything that doesn't slap him in the face. I've flown my red-tail at the local college numerous times and NOBODY notices her. And she has bells on. People in general are just not observant. I think if you hand out fliers, you are more likely to tempt that ONE idiot that would think it'd be cool to shoot and stuff a hawk...crazyy

[sharptail]

If they'd open it up to nonresidents you'd get more people putting in for the peregrine....at least one anyway toungeout

Hi Noah,
Wyoming allows a non resident take of peregrines. There has also not been much interest with residents in recent years.

[tumble]

II think if you hand out fliers, you are more likely to tempt that ONE idiot that would think it'd be cool to shoot and stuff a hawk...crazyy

I was thinking the same thing.

[frootdog]

but I suppose it will probably end up being more or less a recipe bird for my first one, with some variations.

Do you know how many people before you have said this same thing and ended up with a basket case? I've seen it said numerous times and have yet to see one turn out as good as a straight "recipe bird". Keep it simple, esp for your first imprint accip. I followed McDermott's methods to the letter, minus the tame hack as it was not known at that time, and I have to say my coop turned out wonderfully.

[Raptorick]

I would like to imprint a sharpie this year.

my last imprint was a coopers and she was so tame that she would sit on my beating stick held on my shoulder right next to my face. She never ever showed aggression to me. She would catch at least 2 field birds a day. She ended up getting shot carrying a quail.
First time she ever carried too and must of been a bit heavy. She lived in the house and was feather perfect!

[Falcon Boy]

Hi Noah,
Wyoming allows a non resident take of peregrines. There has also not been much interest with residents in recent years.
Really? I didn't know that....i'll have to do some thinking then.

[tumble]

Do you know how many people before you have said this same thing and ended up with a basket case? I've seen it said numerous times and have yet to see one turn out as good as a straight "recipe bird". Keep it simple, esp for your first imprint accip. I followed McDermott's methods to the letter, minus the tame hack as it was not known at that time, and I have to say my coop turned out wonderfully.

Both cottontails and night hawking,for example, are illegal for me so for some of what he talks about in the first book I will have to make adaptations .

[FredFogg]

Do you know how many people before you have said this same thing and ended up with a basket case? I've seen it said numerous times and have yet to see one turn out as good as a straight "recipe bird". Keep it simple, esp for your first imprint accip. I followed McDermott's methods to the letter, minus the tame hack as it was not known at that time, and I have to say my coop turned out wonderfully.

And if you do another Krys, it may not come out so wonderfully! Each bird is different and the process is a good one, but it isn't a sure fire thing. I know others that have done it a completely different way and theirs came out wonderful and others that followed McD's to the T and ended up with face grabbers. The key to any method is adapting and seeing things before they become a permanent problem. And the biggest thing is summed up in his Behavioral book, 90 percent of all problems is weight related.

[frootdog]

Both cottontails and night hawking,for example, are illegal for me so for some of what he talks about in the first book I will have to make adaptations .

Is night hawking illegal or spotlighting? I see what you are saying though. Night hawking however is not part of the training process it's just an alternative means to get in some hunting time.

[frootdog]

And if you do another Krys, it may not come out so wonderfully! Each bird is different and the process is a good one, but it isn't a sure fire thing. I know others that have done it a completely different way and theirs came out wonderful and others that followed McD's to the T and ended up with face grabbers. The key to any method is adapting and seeing things before they become a permanent problem. And the biggest thing is summed up in his Behavioral book, 90 percent of all problems is weight related.

Yes Fred I realise this, but what I'm saying is that the novice (myself included) should not go making adjustments to a tried and true method without first having tried it as is. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of "recipe" (I hate that term for some reason) birds turn out to be good hawks (not basket cases). I'm not suggesting there is no other way to do it, just that if you pick one method stick with it and not try to tweak it when doing it for the first time.

[michaelberan]

I will be imprinting a full male Saker this year

I don't know what I'm doing but I have a little time to figure it out, the egg should be laid the first few days of March

[raptrlvr]

Well it looks like I won't be imprinting a gos this season. Only 4 people put in for the eyas draw and only 3 birds are allowed to be taken. I know one person who was notified by email a couple of days ago, but, I didn't get an email from NMG&F. Life in the big city.

[harrishawker1]

Well it looks like I won't be imprinting a gos this season. Only 4 people put in for the eyas draw and only 3 birds are allowed to be taken. I know one person who was notified by email a couple of days ago, but, I didn't get an email from NMG&F. Life in the big city.
__________________
Jim
New Mexican


Jim

Take a eyeas vacation and pull a non-res wyoming goshawk
Iv been there a few times and theres many nests to choose from. not to mention all the other hawks and falcons you will spot along the way

good luck whatever whichever route you pick

[tumble]

Is night hawking illegal or spotlighting? I see what you are saying though. Night hawking however is not part of the training process it's just an alternative means to get in some hunting time.

Hunting ends a half hour after sunset with no special falconry provisions. Car hawking is also illegal, at least on public roads. I guess what I was mostly referring to was some of the great confidence building methods outlined in the book. And we don't have access to those nice little industrial park bunnies, which may not technically be part of training but sure would go a long way toward initial confidence, I imagine. But I'll adapt like everyone else willing to do what it takes.

[frootdog]

Hunting ends a half hour after sunset with no special falconry provisions. Car hawking is also illegal, at least on public roads. I guess what I was mostly referring to was some of the great confidence building methods outlined in the book. And we don't have access to those nice little industrial park bunnies, which may not technically be part of training but sure would go a long way toward initial confidence, I imagine. But I'll adapt like everyone else willing to do what it takes.

Hunting from a moving vehicle here is illegal too unless you are on private land, ie parking lots. Don't know if that applies to you or not. What I would recomend is baggies, baggies, baggies. Go out for a hunt. If you find nothing or catch nothing toss a baggie for the bird and end the day on a kill. McD says hit the field and if you don't score get an easy carhawking kill. Same idea.

[Jay]

I may pull a Gos in Maine or MA this spring. It will depend how free my weekends are in the spring. I have not checked the two Gos nest I use to have in MA for about 3 years now, but hope they might be still active and can easily find a nest.

I will go with my sponsor, Richard Morrison's method of imprinting. I was told to read McD, so that I know what NOT to do (of course not saying McD is wrong, my sponsor just takes a different view on imprinting). He is against the kill kill kill mentality that seems to dominate accipiter training. No baggies (maybe a dragged bunny and a duck or two just to introduce the game, only if needed) and the weight is kept high for as long as possible. When starting a bird they are kept fat and may not make a kill until a month into their first season. He says not killing for a month at first is worth the 15 years of a quite sedate goshawk you get. They are out hunting and chasing for that first month. And going out, missing and not killing becomes OK to the bird, they don't get tourqued up when they don't end the day with a kill and are not always "expecting" it.

When it is time to really start killing the weight is taken down in what he calls a stair step method. The weight is dropped, then raised again, then dropped again but not as much as the first time. With a bit of playing you end up with a bird that will kill consistently at the highest weight possible.

It is agaisnt the norm but hey it works. All his Goshawks are killing machines. They all tollerate crowds of people, dogs, farm equipment, cars...etc. Anyone can hold the birds, put their bare hands on the kill as the gos will eat between your fingers, or pick one foot at a time up off a kill. The birds are silent in the field and have zero agresson issues. He has done it with 6 or 7 bird now, all come out exactly the same, plus has worked perfect with a number of other birds that others have done.

[Saluqi]

That's excellent Jay. I've heard lots of good things about Dick's goshawks, and I traded a bunch of emails with him months before I pulled my tiercel in '02. Layman's method is very similar with lots of hunting/chasing and very little in the way of catching during the early months.

[Jay]

I was talking with Steve quite a few years ago and him and Dick have quite a few similarities in their methods. One of the main differences is that Dick is strongly against any form of restrained pursuit or jump ups with any of his birds.

[tumble]

I hunted and had dinner with Dick a couple of weeks ago. The only thing I really disagreed on was his assertion that McD cuts weight deeply at hard penning, and Dick was opposed to this. But I've read both McD's books twice now and I've never got the impression that he did anything but a long gradual weight reduction extending well past penning. As I understood it McD expects a heavy and slow-to-hunt hawk for a month or so after penning. So I'm not sure they are really at odds with each other as far as weight management. McD refers to the stair-step thing as well.

Having said that, I do very much like Dick's gos. Tame as a kitten. I'd be interested in others' thoughts on a less aggressive bagging strategy.

[Saluqi]

I wasn't going to chime in on this thread, but what the heck. Don't use any bags, it's that simple. In the wild, goshawks are not killing on their own for a long while after they fledge, they are not killing opened up baby quail in the nest like the recipe calls for. Just raise them, and fly them, and as the season goes from summer to fall they will lose their baby fat (turns to muscle) and will naturally become hungry to the point where they'll catch one of those prey items they only chased all summer. It's closer to what happens in the wild.

[FredFogg]

I may pull a Gos in Maine or MA this spring. It will depend how free my weekends are in the spring. I have not checked the two Gos nest I use to have in MA for about 3 years now, but hope they might be still active and can easily find a nest.

I will go with my sponsor, Richard Morrison's method of imprinting. I was told to read McD, so that I know what NOT to do (of course not saying McD is wrong, my sponsor just takes a different view on imprinting). He is against the kill kill kill mentality that seems to dominate accipiter training. No baggies (maybe a dragged bunny and a duck or two just to introduce the game, only if needed) and the weight is kept high for as long as possible. When starting a bird they are kept fat and may not make a kill until a month into their first season. He says not killing for a month at first is worth the 15 years of a quite sedate goshawk you get. They are out hunting and chasing for that first month. And going out, missing and not killing becomes OK to the bird, they don't get tourqued up when they don't end the day with a kill and are not always "expecting" it.

When it is time to really start killing the weight is taken down in what he calls a stair step method. The weight is dropped, then raised again, then dropped again but not as much as the first time. With a bit of playing you end up with a bird that will kill consistently at the highest weight possible.

It is agaisnt the norm but hey it works. All his Goshawks are killing machines. They all tollerate crowds of people, dogs, farm equipment, cars...etc. Anyone can hold the birds, put their bare hands on the kill as the gos will eat between your fingers, or pick one foot at a time up off a kill. The birds are silent in the field and have zero agresson issues. He has done it with 6 or 7 bird now, all come out exactly the same, plus has worked perfect with a number of other birds that others have done.

Jay,

Dicks method sounds very similar to a method I read about last year by a guy over in Europe that has produced a couple of outstanding goshawks. I know the next accipiter I imprint will be done this way. It just makes sense to me. Many different ways to do things, you just have to pick the one that suits you best. Dick's method suits me best! LOL

[BestBeagler]

I may pull a Gos in Maine or MA this spring. It will depend how free my weekends are in the spring. I have not checked the two Gos nest I use to have in MA for about 3 years now, but hope they might be still active and can easily find a nest.

I will go with my sponsor, Richard Morrison's method of imprinting. I was told to read McD, so that I know what NOT to do (of course not saying McD is wrong, my sponsor just takes a different view on imprinting). He is against the kill kill kill mentality that seems to dominate accipiter training. No baggies (maybe a dragged bunny and a duck or two just to introduce the game, only if needed) and the weight is kept high for as long as possible. When starting a bird they are kept fat and may not make a kill until a month into their first season. He says not killing for a month at first is worth the 15 years of a quite sedate goshawk you get. They are out hunting and chasing for that first month. And going out, missing and not killing becomes OK to the bird, they don't get tourqued up when they don't end the day with a kill and are not always "expecting" it.

When it is time to really start killing the weight is taken down in what he calls a stair step method. The weight is dropped, then raised again, then dropped again but not as much as the first time. With a bit of playing you end up with a bird that will kill consistently at the highest weight possible.

It is agaisnt the norm but hey it works. All his Goshawks are killing machines. They all tollerate crowds of people, dogs, farm equipment, cars...etc. Anyone can hold the birds, put their bare hands on the kill as the gos will eat between your fingers, or pick one foot at a time up off a kill. The birds are silent in the field and have zero agresson issues. He has done it with 6 or 7 bird now, all come out exactly the same, plus has worked perfect with a number of other birds that others have done.

Jay:
If the bird is kept so fat how does he deal with fear issues? Sounds like the weight is controlled somewhere? You here it from people time and time again how their birds are as tame as a kitten and then get all fearfull. Isaac

[tumble]

I wasn't going to chime in on this thread, but what the heck. Don't use any bags, it's that simple. In the wild, goshawks are not killing on their own for a long while after they fledge, they are not killing opened up baby quail in the nest like the recipe calls for. Just raise them, and fly them, and as the season goes from summer to fall they will lose their baby fat (turns to muscle) and will naturally become hungry to the point where they'll catch one of those prey items they only chased all summer. It's closer to what happens in the wild.

Paul, now that you've gone and jumped in here, how do you feel about feeding young birds on a carcass "platter"? I have been planning to save a couple snowshoe hares that my RT killed for the purpose.

[Saluqi]

Jay:
If the bird is kept so fat how does he deal with fear issues? Sounds like the weight is controlled somewhere? You here it from people time and time again how their birds are as tame as a kitten and then get all fearfull. Isaac

That's a great question, especially with male gosses who seem more prone to dispersal and fear come September. Has Dick imprinted many NA tiercels using this method?




Paul, now that you've gone and jumped in here, how do you feel about feeding young birds on a carcass "platter"? I have been planning to save a couple snowshoe hares that my RT killed for the purpose.

I never bothered. I used a frozen rabbit "Mr. Frosty" as faux quarry once the bird was flying and being exercised on a regular basis. I'm sure that most of my technique is in posts in this thread:

http://www.nafex.net/showthread.php?t=284

[tumble]

Thanks Paul, I've had that thread printed and set on my bed side book shelf for a while. Read it once and will again. Thanks.

[raptrlvr]

Paul, It looks like I jumped the gun on the goshawk. They said they sent out an email, but, I didn't get one. They are putting the permits in the mail tomorrow.

[ikcus]

So you got a permit Jim?

[FredFogg]

Paul, It looks like I jumped the gun on the goshawk. They said they sent out an email, but, I didn't get one. They are putting the permits in the mail tomorrow.

Congrats Jim! We expect some excellent pictures when you pull it! LOL

[tumble]

Congrats Jim! We expect some excellent pictures when you pull it! LOL

Including fast shutter speed hi-res images of the hen smacking you in the side of the head. Stare her down Jim...

[FredFogg]

Including fast shutter speed hi-res images of the hen smacking you in the side of the head. Stare her down Jim...

I want to see pictures of Jim with a football helmet on! LOL

[raptrlvr]

I have flown a gos before in Southern California. Yes, Joe, I got a confirmation email today from NMG&F. That was after I called them to inquire. So, today, I gave them my email address again and within minutes they sent me a confirmation. Then I called an old time falconer in my area that has 29 goshawk nest locations. When falconers in NM want a gos, they call him. He said he would start checking out the nest to see which ones would be active.

[Jay]

That's a great question, especially with male gosses who seem more prone to dispersal and fear come September. Has Dick imprinted many NA tiercels using this method?



None of these birds have any fear. I do not know the number of males he has done himself. Last season a friend of his down the road did a male that turned out great. Wonderful tame calm bird, with no fear, or aggression. Dick has always said the sex of the bird really doesn't matter.

Part of it might be the way he always has the eyass with him at all times. Anything and everything you might ever encounter in the field should be shown to the bird when it is young and being carried around in a box. The eyass rides with him in the truck everwhere he goes; birthday parties, construction sites, sees farm equipment, sits out and watches cars go by, is touched and played with by as many people as possible, etc. I know he will let a groups of kids touch and "pet" the eyass, with the only condition that they do not pick it up.

He describes dispersal and the teen years as the time when you think someone switched your eyass for a wilded eyed passage bird. Here he will keep the bird as fat as possible while maintaining a minimum of control. So yes some weight reduction, but keeping the bird as fat as you can get away with. During this stage he says he has not put the bird on the scales yet, just watches the birds response. Once he starts going out he will start taking the weight down VERY VERY slowly. With the bird as response falls off he upps the weight, then brings the weight back down to where it was when response was falling off. This up and down will happen many times always maintianing a minimum of control and maximum weight. After about two or three weeks he says the sweet eyass you had before will be back. At this point slow reducton to the point of killing continues.

[BestBeagler]

None of these birds have any fear. I do not know the number of males he has done himself. Last season a friend of his down the road did a male that turned out great. Wonderful tame calm bird, with no fear, or aggression. Dick has always said the sex of the bird really doesn't matter.

Part of it might be the way he always has the eyass with him at all times. Anything and everything you might ever encounter in the field should be shown to the bird when it is young and being carried around in a box. The eyass rides with him in the truck everwhere he goes; birthday parties, construction sites, sees farm equipment, sits out and watches cars go by, is touched and played with by as many people as possible, etc. I know he will let a groups of kids touch and "pet" the eyass, with the only condition that they do not pick it up.

He describes dispersal and the teen years as the time when you think someone switched your eyass for a wilded eyed passage bird. Here he will keep the bird as fat as possible while maintaining a minimum of control. So yes some weight reduction, but keeping the bird as fat as you can get away with. During this stage he says he has not put the bird on the scales yet, just watches the birds response. Once he starts going out he will start taking the weight down VERY VERY slowly. With the bird as response falls off he upps the weight, then brings the weight back down to where it was when response was falling off. This up and down will happen many times always maintianing a minimum of control and maximum weight. After about two or three weeks he says the sweet eyass you had before will be back. At this point slow reducton to the point of killing continues.

It sounds very McD like to me. Slow weight reduction lots of socializing the only difference is that Mr. Morrison doesn't use bags and yo-yo's the weight where as McD suggests a slow steady weight drop dictated by the responce of the eyas. This is the question. Does Mr. Morrison's imprints fly any heavier than McD type imprinted birds? Not knocking his meathod or anything but I don't think I would want to deal with a fearfull eyas for two-three weeks. Hey if it has worked for him thats what counts right? Isaac

[Ken S.]

I don't think I would want to deal with a fearfull eyas for two-three weeks. Hey if it has worked for him thats what counts right? Isaac

?? Two to three weeks doesn't sound like much of a sacrifice in the grand scheme of things... the goal being a great hunting partner for many years.

[Jay]

Ken nailed it. Yes the method takes longer, but it worth it in the long run.

I would say there is quite a bit of divergence between this and McD. Where McD says to start dropping the weight and kill kill kill, Morrison will actually bring the weight up. The stair step of the weight is really the key and produces a bird that flys at a higher weight.

For me it is a no brainer. Go with a method in a book or go with a method I have never seen fail and consistently produces the best goshawks I have seen, especially when I can learn it right from the horses mouth who has been doing it for almost 30 years. Which I think is the key to imprinting at first... finding someone that you have seen make it work the best and follow their method to the T.

[BestBeagler]

?? Two to three weeks doesn't sound like much of a sacrifice in the grand scheme of things... the goal being a great hunting partner for many years.

What I am saying if Mr. Morrisons imprints end up flying just as heavy as a properly imprinted Mcd recipe bird why screw around for 2-3 weeks? Stair step that weight 5 grams a day (for a gos) until the fear disapates and keep it there. Isaac

[BestBeagler]

Ken nailed it. Yes the method takes longer, but it worth it in the long run.

I would say there is quite a bit of divergence between this and McD. Where McD says to start dropping the weight and kill kill kill, Morrison will actually bring the weight up. The stair step of the weight is really the key and produces a bird that flys at a higher weight.

For me it is a no brainer. Go with a method in a book or go with a method I have never seen fail and consistently produces the best goshawks I have seen, especially when I can learn it right from the horses mouth who has been doing it for almost 30 years. Which I think is the key to imprinting at first... finding someone that you have seen make it work the best and follow their method to the T.

Jay:
It sounds good to me and I see your reasons for wanting to follow Mr. Morrison's method. Like I said if it works for him that is all that matters, but for the sake of discussion I will continue.

I am pretty sure I know why some (maybe even a lot) of people fail with the recipe. It is based so much on weight control it is unbelievable and I think it may be a bit misunderstood. I never read his first book so I am just making observations from the new book.

McD weight reduction plan makes perfect sense in my mind. The eyas is barely returning to the lure at penning. (response needs to be slow if the eyas is coming to fast your in danger of being in the hot zone) Once the bird starts going through its time of fear. The weight is again dropped. These weight reductions aren't large they are 5gm at a time for a gos. You keep the bird at this new weight until the bird shows more fear or you are noticing problems on the lure or kill. He himself said his current coopers was brought down so slow it was still on the creance a week after penning. That doesn’t sound like a drop, drop, drop, and kill, kill, kill attitude to me. Once the bird is fit and confident then comes the kill, kill, kill. He states himself that Gos’s are slow to develop and it takes awhile for them to catch on stating that your eyas Gos is going to watch bunnies jump right in front of him and not commit. It is all there in the book what you should expect and what you are going to see. You just have to be careful and pick up on the small details.

Again, as for the kill, kill, kill, part; yes it is very important in recipe but not if it means risking the bird by dropping it into the "hot zone" again we are talking about a window within a few grams with a Gos. 5gm for a Gos, 2gm for a Coop, and .5gm for a Sharpie. These windows are really small. He even mentions that if you fed to much the day before and the bird is 10gm to heavy for a gos don't feed it 10gm less to get it on weight the next day feed it always enough in these instances and others so that it never looses more than 5gm at any time. Can I say 22hr weight control, with clock, calendar, graphs, and log book? This is some precise stuff. I think it is almost too precise for most people to bother with and then their birds get screw up and blame it on the recipe. I myself never knew his recipe was so exact and weight work related. I am still on the fence in regards to weather or not all the baggies are necessary but hey it works and it is no big deal for me to acquire them so why not use them? His American Falconry article just skims it at the most, compared to his new book.

Now the APB book deals with psychotic problem accipiter’s. Weight reduction in those circumstance are a bit different.

I am not trying to convince you or anything just throwing information out there. I think some people get the idea that McD recipe makes eyases starving, screaming, killing demons from hell which are hell bent on latching onto your face. That is not what I get from reading his book and the "recipe" at all and can't see where people come off thinking like that. Unless they think they tried the recipe and did everything correct except were a bit sloppy with their weight management and handling skills.

Isaac,
Who has never imprinted an accipiter but after reading the new McD book finally gets it. Or at least thinks he does :)

[FredFogg]

Who has never imprinted an accipiter but after reading the new McD book finally gets it. Or at least thinks he does :)

Isaac,

Imprint one and then see if you still think the same! To read a book and think you have it, well, you just have to do it and see! I can understand your reasoning and thought process, but it just doesn't work like he describes in the book. Every single day there is something you have to deal with and it just isn't easy. Don't get me wrong, I think his recipe works, but it isn't anything exact and you will find this out when you try it. And 2 or 3 weeks of waiting as described in the other method, who cares, it isn't what you have at that exact point in the imprinting process, it is what you have at the end of the season. Imprinting isn't a one season thing, it should be for a bird you are going to fly for the rest of its life. Just my humble opinion!

[michaelberan]

Imprinting isn't a one season thing, it should be for a bird you are going to fly for the rest of its life. Just my humble opinion!

Amen!
amennn

[BestBeagler]

Isaac,

Imprint one and then see if you still think the same! To read a book and think you have it, well, you just have to do it and see! I can understand your reasoning and thought process, but it just doesn't work like he describes in the book. Every single day there is something you have to deal with and it just isn't easy. Don't get me wrong, I think his recipe works, but it isn't anything exact and you will find this out when you try it. And 2 or 3 weeks of waiting as described in the other method, who cares, it isn't what you have at that exact point in the imprinting process, it is what you have at the end of the season. Imprinting isn't a one season thing, it should be for a bird you are going to fly for the rest of its life. Just my humble opinion!

Fred:
So what are you really trying to say? Of course all birds are different, but you follow the same guidelines when it come to the weight control don't you? No one has answered the below quote. Which is fine.

"If Mr. Morrison’s imprints end up flying just as heavy as a properly imprinted Mcd recipe bird why screw around for 2-3 weeks? Stair step that weight 5 grams a day (for a gos) until the fear dissipates and keep it there."

I would love to look at the weight journals this guy has. It would be interesting to see at what weights his birds finally return back to there tame selves and how much weight they dropped to get there. I think that would cinch it right there.

You yourself flew a your coopers too heavy in the begging for too long didn't you? If you think McD recipe works then I would stick with it. You get better and better each time you try it as you learn from your mistakes. You know what you did wrong with Inya. I bet you could make a better imprint this time around using the same imprinting method just because you learned from your mistakes. Trying a new imprinting method might bring you right back to square one. Just my humble opinion. Isaac

[BestBeagler]

Isaac,

Imprint one and then see if you still think the same! To read a book and think you have it, well, you just have to do it and see! I can understand your reasoning and thought process, but it just doesn't work like he describes in the book. Every single day there is something you have to deal with and it just isn't easy. Don't get me wrong, I think his recipe works, but it isn't anything exact and you will find this out when you try it. And 2 or 3 weeks of waiting as described in the other method, who cares, it isn't what you have at that exact point in the imprinting process, it is what you have at the end of the season. Imprinting isn't a one season thing, it should be for a bird you are going to fly for the rest of its life. Just my humble opinion!


Fred:
Tell me what you did wrong and if you think it wasn't weight related. Like you mentioned all birds are different, but the guidelines for McD weight management are the same and who knows maybe upon further investigation one day we will find McD weight management plan for imprints accipiter’s to be likened to Mr. McElroy’s 22hr weight control. That is to say it works for all the birds in which the method was designed for. Isaac

[BestBeagler]

By the way. If the expert longtime imprinters with well mannered birds on here want me to shut up and tell me I am making no sense and are tired of my posts on this topic just let me know and I will keep my trap shut. :) Isaac

[Saluqi]

"If Mr. Morrison’s imprints end up flying just as heavy as a properly imprinted Mcd recipe bird why screw around for 2-3 weeks? Stair step that weight 5 grams a day (for a gos) until the fear dissipates and keep it there."

I would love to look at the weight journals this guy has. It would be interesting to see at what weights his birds finally return back to there tame selves and how much weight they dropped to get there. I think that would cinch it right there.



A 2-3 week period is nothing in a multi-year commitment that all imprints should be. I'd bet that Dick's imprints are tame the entire time, keeping them on the fat side keeps them tame.

I think that Dick Morrison's method works well for him in his particular situation. Remember that McD's recipe calls for a ton of baggies and taking multiple head of game once you get 10 to 12 head into hunting, right? What about places where it is illegal to hunt rabbits out of season? What about not using baggies like the Brits, and Layman's method? Also remember that Dick is imprinting gosses and McD recipe is for all accipiters - there are some differences.

[BestBeagler]

A 2-3 week period is nothing in a multi-year commitment that all imprints should be. I'd bet that Dick's imprints are tame the entire time, keeping them on the fat side keeps them tame.

I think that Dick Morrison's method works well for him in his particular situation. Remember that McD's recipe calls for a ton of baggies and taking multiple head of game once you get 10 to 12 head into hunting, right? What about places where it is illegal to hunt rabbits out of season? What about not using baggies like the Brits, and Layman's method? Also remember that Dick is imprinting gosses and McD recipe is for all accipiters - there are some differences.


Jay said, "He (Mr. Morrison) describes dispersal and the teen years as the time when you think someone switched your eyass for a wild eyed passage bird. Here he will keep the bird as fat as possible while maintaining a minimum of control. So yes some weight reduction, but keeping the bird as fat as you can get away with."

He also has the fear and dispersal issue that he has to deal with and if it takes him 2-3 weeks to get the eyas back to it's tame self and it works for him then great! Who am I to criticize? He still drops the weight though. The question is whether or not it is necessary to yo-yo it up and down like a EKG monitors pulse over a period of 2-3 weeks.

Layman’s OC method is a totally different ball game and is in a class of its own. As for the Brits and not using baggies I don't know when their seasons start. Maybe they can get out there early and chase those bunnies and baggies aren't necessary.

I myself stated in a previous post on this thread that I wonder how important baggies are to whole scheme of things, and as I said before it works and it is no big deal for me to acquire them so, in my case why, not use them? I have access to a lot of baggie bunnies so I think I can get away with it. Plus, the hack will give me more time and I won't have to wait as long for the rabbit season to come in. If I didn't have access to bunnies and a lot of game for a gos after the hunting season came in I would have gone with a sharpie or coops. I would just be following the golden rule. Fly the accipiter appropriate for the available quarry.

Again, I want to reiterate I am not trying to say that other methods don't work and I don't want to come across as a know-it-all jerk. I just love discussing this and gleaning different ideas and hearing different views. I am really enjoying this thread. Thanks for responding guys! Isaac

[BestBeagler]

Also remember that Dick is imprinting gosses and McD recipe is for all accipiters - there are some differences.

Yep, I sure realize that. How do you think it would work on a coops? Isaac

[BestBeagler]

Isaac,

Imprint one and then see if you still think the same! To read a book and think you have it, well, you just have to do it and see! I can understand your reasoning and thought process, but it just doesn't work like he describes in the book. Every single day there is something you have to deal with and it just isn't easy. Don't get me wrong, I think his recipe works, but it isn't anything exact and you will find this out when you try it. And 2 or 3 weeks of waiting as described in the other method, who cares, it isn't what you have at that exact point in the imprinting process, it is what you have at the end of the season. Imprinting isn't a one season thing, it should be for a bird you are going to fly for the rest of its life. Just my humble opinion!

"Who has never imprinted an accipiter but after reading the new McD book finally gets it. Or at least thinks he does"

Fred:
When I typed the above I meant that I see why so many people don't like McD recipe, because they "follow" it but are a little lax in their weight management skills which in turn causes them problems. That's saying they did everything right except they were a bit sloppy in the weight management department. I think the weight management is so important to McD's recipe that if you make a mistake and don't correct it soon enough you will really run into problems.

Do you think McD's opinion on weight control and the strong importance of it, or the lack of it, is just a crutch used to explain the birds that don't turn out? That's assuming that everything else was done correctly i.e. socializing and smooth handling techniques. This could be.

The way I see it, weight reduction is used (in the recipe) only when the bird behaviors dictates that it is necessary to do so. He and others have found with numerous birds that dropping the weight based on the birds behaviors solves and avoids many problems and it makes sense, to me anyway. Maybe, you can get away with keeping a Gos fat and happy for a longer period of time than lets say for a coopers or sharpie, but in the end when you run into problems during the fear/dispersal faze even Mr. Morrison relies on weight reduction. Isaac

[Saluqi]

Hi Isaac,

I don't understand what you're asking. Sure weight management is critical to any form of imprinting, but it's not the end all. Just as important is being able to observe and deduce your birds moods from its body language and behavior. I think the reason there have been so many bad imprints since the publication of Imprint Accipiter is because that book debuted in American Falconry as an article which got people really pumped up, did you read the original article? Man, those stories of head counts and night hawking Coops, all with a simple "recipe", it made it sound as if those super hawks were within any mans reach. Then when the book was released and the plan laid out in even more detail folks went crazy and more accips were imprinted in the next few years than probably in the 50 years prior. So of course there are going be a lot of failures, there are also success stories no doubt.

The failures, well I'd guess a lot of those were due to the falconer having no idea what kind of a commitment imprinting requires. Sure you get the Coop in June and raise it up, and boy that's a lot of fun, you get it killing bags, and then you have to go to Aunt Martha's for that 10 day vacation and leave the bird with your hawking buddy and when you get home you have a screaming nut case on your hands. Or the bird gets a little aggressive one time, and it freaks out the falconer who is now afraid of the bird, and from there the situation spirals. Not to mention all the falconers out there who shouldn't even be allowed to practice the sport.

In short imprinting requires planning your summer around it and being prepared for unexpected events, like a cat killing all of our baggies for example. Hunting starts in July and ends in March, the name of the game is commitment!

[Jay]

Also remember that Dick is imprinting gosses and McD recipe is for all accipiters - there are some differences.

Paul not totally true. His method works great with Coops as well. He spent my first spring as a general trying to get me to pull one.

Never seen him try it on a sharpy, but I would not bet against it working.

[BestBeagler]

Hi Isaac,

I don't understand what you're asking. Sure weight management is critical to any form of imprinting, but it's not the end all. Just as important is being able to observe and deduce your birds moods from its body language and behavior. I think the reason there have been so many bad imprints since the publication of Imprint Accipiter is because that book debuted in American Falconry as an article which got people really pumped up, did you read the original article? Man, those stories of head counts and night hawking Coops, all with a simple "recipe", it made it sound as if those super hawks were within any mans reach. Then when the book was released and the plan laid out in even more detail folks went crazy and more accips were imprinted in the next few years than probably in the 50 years prior. So of course there are going be a lot of failures, there are also success stories no doubt.

The failures, well I'd guess a lot of those were due to the falconer having no idea what kind of a commitment imprinting requires. Sure you get the Coop in June and raise it up, and boy that's a lot of fun, you get it killing bags, and then you have to go to Aunt Martha's for that 10 day vacation and leave the bird with your hawking buddy and when you get home you have a screaming nut case on your hands. Or the bird gets a little aggressive one time, and it freaks out the falconer who is now afraid of the bird, and from there the situation spirals. Not to mention all the falconers out there who shouldn't even be allowed to practice the sport.

In short imprinting requires planning your summer around it and being prepared for unexpected events, like a cat killing all of our baggies for example. Hunting starts in July and ends in March, the name of the game is commitment!

All I am doing is comparing McD method of imprinting to Mr. Morrison’s. Both of these guys socialize the heck out of their birds. Both guys drop the weight really slowly. Except, Mr. Morrison raises and drops raises and drops the weight slowly whereas McD just drops the weight slowly based on the eyases response. McD uses a lot of baggies and Mr. Morrison doesn't. The question is does it really make that big of a difference yo-yoing the weight or not? Is it really necessary to deal with a fearful eyas for 2-3 weeks? What does this accomplish if the end result is the bird hitting a weight where it is no longer fearful? Do his imprints fly any heavier than McD imprinted birds? Do they scream less because of the yo-yoing weight reduction? Was there any particular part of any of my questions that that you wanted me to re-phrase? I have wrote a lot of this topic now and I am starting to get a bit confused myself :) Isaac

[BestBeagler]

You know, I have given my posts and other some thought and have come to the conclusion that it doesn’t really matter and it is not that important comparing McD’s method to Morrison’s method It works for Mr. Morrison that’s what matters. Who cares if one yo-yos the weight when dropping it and one doesn’t. There is more than one way to imprint an accipiter I just look forward to imprinting mine and hope it turns well. That’s all that matters. Thanks for the discussion guys. I enjoyed it. Isaac

By the way, if I put half as much effort in college as I do on these forums and in falconry I would be much better off :)

[tumble]

Isaac, I'm going through similar thoughts myself as I prepare for a first gos. I think we'd have to ask Dick just how much of a "yo-yo" we're talking about. But I'd bet it's not more than 5-10 grams. I would think more than that would cause problems. I suspect the major differences is in baggies and available early season quarry. From several of my conversations with Dick he has access to a lot of cottontails. I don't (though he has invited me down to Mass to hunt). I imagine that would go a long way in reducing the need for baggies. I think the guys who have flown goshawks here in Maine have done quite a bit of baggie work. Given our lack of a CT season, let alone an early one, I too am seriously reaching for a good plan.

[tumble]

By the way, another problem I have with following the book to a "T" is there is no way I'm going down to Walmart and killing a rabbit with my baby hawk in front of a crowd of shoppers. Maybe one can sell tickets to something like that in Missouri but I'm not trying it here!

[FredFogg]

Fred:
So what are you really trying to say? Of course all birds are different, but you follow the same guidelines when it come to the weight control don't you? No one has answered the below quote. Which is fine.

"If Mr. Morrison’s imprints end up flying just as heavy as a properly imprinted Mcd recipe bird why screw around for 2-3 weeks? Stair step that weight 5 grams a day (for a gos) until the fear dissipates and keep it there."

I would love to look at the weight journals this guy has. It would be interesting to see at what weights his birds finally return back to there tame selves and how much weight they dropped to get there. I think that would cinch it right there.

You yourself flew a your coopers too heavy in the begging for too long didn't you? If you think McD recipe works then I would stick with it. You get better and better each time you try it as you learn from your mistakes. You know what you did wrong with Inya. I bet you could make a better imprint this time around using the same imprinting method just because you learned from your mistakes. Trying a new imprinting method might bring you right back to square one. Just my humble opinion. Isaac

Isaac,

What I am saying is you will be following the book and something will pop up that the book didn't account for, I can assure you, it happens. Again, I say, it all reads nice and sounds like a set of guidelines you follow, but it doesn't work out that way. Just do it and then come back to this thread and tell me it went exactly the way you thought McD meant it to. To make observations about something you have read and then to fiercely defend them without actually doing it, well, again I say, do it and come back and tell us what you think.

[FredFogg]

Here is a method given to me by a falconer in England that has turned out a couple of awesome gos's the past couple of years. This is what he says he does!

Fully raised indoors for the first 7 weeks.
Socialised with kids and different dogs daily.
Transported to plenty of different locations.
If left on it's own, left in front of 42" Tv on a good volume.
Move to mew after 6 weeks.
No lure feeding during first 7 weeks.
Never fed up on the lure, food placed to side of lure.
No carcass feeding during first 9 weeks.
Until the tail is halfway down and can stand well / grip well, don't pick up, once it's ready I gentle guide it onto the glove and progress from there.
Very quick weight reduction when hard penned and hunted immediately. No carcass feeding.
No lure training before fully feathered.
No weight reduction or recall training till fully feathered.
No weight limiting during the first 8 weeks or so.
Waited 2 more weeks before flying free.
I start putting him on the fist when the tail length is over 1/2 down, and not for great periods of time - usually while I'm sitting and not moving about, they don't seem to like it early on.

I start walking with them once the tail feathers over 2/3 down.
Food is always present at the beginning, I've never let it see me present the food - I wait until the gos is asleep or distracted and then place the food.

Later stages with reduced food availability - I'll carry the gos in the dog basket and take him to the food offering.




Now to trading off -
Because I don't feed on the lure during initial rearing or training, trade off's are easy due to no mantling (or little mantling). Once the gos has come to the lure for the small piece I'll toss out a food offering just to the side of the lure (leave the lure on the floor) - as the gos eats the offering make in and as soon as it's finished pick him up (as per McDermott type scoop up - hope you understand ).

Once killing, the same food offering is place to the side of the kill - the gos leaves the kill in an instant for the offering, kill removed / gos eats then scooped up again. Multiples aren't a problem.


I'll feed off the kill carcass for the first 10 kills or so until I see he wants to take on all the slips I want, then introduced feeding off the kill - if he continues to chase hard then onto multiples.
Freelofted in mew during the moult, tethered on a bow perch
during the day and screen perch at night whilst at hunting weight.

[tumble]

Fred, was that Jim's?

[FredFogg]

Fred, was that Jim's?

Yes!

[tumble]

I've read the Flynn and Fletch logs. Giving them another read right now. :) Good stuff.

[FredFogg]

I've read the Flynn and Fletch logs. Giving them another read right now. :) Good stuff.

His stuff makes sense to me! My next imprint will be tried his way. I think his method and the one mentioned above are very similar.

[murraym]

I am thinking about imprinting a wild take peregrine this year. I have a permit and can legally take one at 18 days old. I may give it a try.

Sorry...no accipiter ideas.

[wesleyc6]

I am thinking about imprinting a wild take peregrine this year. I have a permit and can legally take one at 18 days old. I may give it a try.

Sorry...no accipiter ideas.


Where are you going to get it Matt?

[tumble]

Where are you going to get it Matt?

Not in a pine grove so who cares?

Just kidding :)

[wesleyc6]

Not in a pine grove so who cares?

Just kidding :)

As in not an accipiter?;)

[murraym]

I know of a few eyries here in AZ. I didn't end up getting a wild taken bird as planned last year but hopefully this year. Another falconer pulled a tiercel last year and there was only 2 birds in that eyrie. I had pulled one the year before from a different eyrie so I figured it was his turn and was happy for him.

[raptrlvr]

Matt, I think your talking about Gary Alton taking the tiercel peregrine. I know he pulled a wild tiercel peregrine from Az last year. Unfortunately, Gary passed away last year. The last conversation I had with Gary the tiercel was doing well. I don't know who ended up with the tiercel.

[murraym]

Jim, I offered a bird to Gary if he didn't find one but he did. He was so appreciative that he helped me out on the peales/anatum that I have this year. Gary was a great guy who, even when he was very sick started out by asking how I was doing. A great guy and good for falconry in CA. I believe they now have or are at least closer to a peregrine take because of his efforts.

[raptrlvr]

Matt, I spent many hours with Gary out in the field {California} flying peregrines. He taught me a lot about falcons. He worked hard on the peregrine take for California and he received notice on a Friday that California was going to act on his petition. He passed away 3 days later on Monday. California falconers should be very grateful for having a great falconer like Gary. I am grateful for all the time I got to spend with him. He was also a High school teacher for at least 30 years. I moved to New Mexico and Gary made it a point to stay in touch with me.

[awahl]

I also knew Gary, though mostly over the phone. I did hawk with him a few times in southern California when I was younger. He got me set up with my semen donor peregrine that I used for quite a few years. He even gave me a full set of biology poweroints that I still use to this day in my classes. He really was the salt of the earth.

A very good friend of his received his wild take tiercel named Jeff Higgins. He is flying it on small game and finding success. Art Tawatari who lives a couple of miles away from here has his wild take female. They plan on getting them together in the future when the time is right.

[BestBeagler]

Isaac,

What I am saying is you will be following the book and something will pop up that the book didn't account for, I can assure you, it happens. Again, I say, it all reads nice and sounds like a set of guidelines you follow, but it doesn't work out that way. Just do it and then come back to this thread and tell me it went exactly the way you thought McD meant it to. To make observations about something you have read and then to fiercely defend them without actually doing it, well, again I say, do it and come back and tell us what you think.

Fred:
Naturally, the book can't account for the many variables possible in imprinting. One couldn't assume otherwise. The book is not a beginners book. I would assume anyone picking it up and reading it has some prior knowledge of the imprinting process, not necessarily hands on knowledge but at least has some theory on the subject.

I make observations on this subject from written material and "fiercely" defend them not because I necessarily believe it all but to stimulate discussion on a topic that I am interested in. I only wish to get some good, knowledgeable and stimulating feedback on this subject so that I can learn more, but it seems some may have taken my posts the wrong way, despite my countless disclaimers. Isaac

[BestBeagler]

Isaac, I'm going through similar thoughts myself as I prepare for a first gos. I think we'd have to ask Dick just how much of a "yo-yo" we're talking about. But I'd bet it's not more than 5-10 grams. I would think more than that would cause problems. I suspect the major differences is in baggies and available early season quarry. From several of my conversations with Dick he has access to a lot of cottontails. I don't (though he has invited me down to Mass to hunt). I imagine that would go a long way in reducing the need for baggies. I think the guys who have flown goshawks here in Maine have done quite a bit of baggie work. Given our lack of a CT season, let alone an early one, I too am seriously reaching for a good plan.

Yeah, I agree. Seeing a weight chart and a log would be great. Isaac

[outhawkn]

If all goes well, I will imprint a sharpie...............

[ikcus]

Oh, Bill, I am definitely pulling up a seat if you pull a sharpie! The best of luck, and please keep us posted. Are you looking to pull a male or a female? Either way, it will be a blast.

[outhawkn]

Oh, Bill, I am definitely pulling up a seat if you pull a sharpie! The best of luck, and please keep us posted. Are you looking to pull a male or a female? Either way, it will be a blast.

Hi Joe

Its a little hard to sex them at a young age and I dont care which, so I'll just be happy to come home with any eyas. I have plenty of game in the summer for either sex and zero game in the winter . So I plan on flying in the summers then moulting it in the house during the winter. Will see how well that goes...............:D

[Lee Slikkers]

I had high hopes of attempting another imprint, either a Sharpie, Coops again or a Gos. However, our take law just ran through it's "sunset" date and currently nothing new to give us our take permitting back has made it through the house so the odds of them doing so prior to take advantage of our eyas take is pipe dream I believe...

Money being tight I would rather do a wild take for a bird this year and I'm fairly certain I burn my bridges in purchasing a local MI captive bred Gos.

[goshawks00]

Lee why would you think that...? I still have you down as 1st for a male this year...
I know the stress you've been under at work and also that you had problems with your meds, so cheer up all is not lost.
Barry

[Lee Slikkers]

Thanks Barry...I guess it was a poor asssumption on my part. I felt and still feel quite badly about not being about to fulfill my purchase for you last year.

My health/med situation is slowly on the mend I believe which has me really excited about this coming season.

I'll drop you an email soon and we can chat about the gos then. Much appreciated Barry.

[CaliforniaFalconer]

I'm on the list for a tiercel NA Gos.

I looked briefly but didn't see anything....could someone post a like to the Flynn and Fletch logs you mentioned earlier ? I'm eager to learn about some different imprinting methods.

[frootdog]

I'm on the list for a tiercel NA Gos.

I looked briefly but didn't see anything....could someone post a like to the Flynn and Fletch logs you mentioned earlier ? I'm eager to learn about some different imprinting methods.

I believe those logs are on the IFF.

[daddys"s little girl]

Paul:
I have been giving a imprint a lot of thought, the biggest draw back for me is keeping the bird in the house, my daughter has allergy's real bad. If she has an attack she has to go to the hospital for a shot. She does not live at home anymore but I will just not take the chance. I would like to try a cooper hawk. I am not sure how I would do it, I would read all the post on the forum for a start.
here is a great sight I found on imprinting a coppers thanks Amy http://www.americanfalconry.com/recipe.html

[waterbug]

If I'm lucky I will be imprinting my first accipiter this year, tiercel Finnish gos. I will be following my mentor's instructions. His ideas are pretty close to McDermott's. He thinks it's definite now but I'm going to keep calling it in the "probable" stage until hatch. Nothing worse than getting set on something and disappointed in the end!

[Tanner]

I'll be taking two imprint merlins in 11 weeks...man that is a LONG way off!!

[Tanner]

I am thinking about imprinting a wild take peregrine this year. I have a permit and can legally take one at 18 days old. I may give it a try.

Sorry...no accipiter ideas.

Does the AZ G&F mandate that you can't take one before 18 days old?

[Saluqi]

I'll be taking two imprint merlins in 11 weeks...man that is a LONG way off!!

Hey Tanner,

How will you imprint them? I've heard that imprint merlins can turn out to be the worst of screamers.

[tumble]

I believe those logs are on the IFF.

yep

[murraym]

Tanner, you are correct sir. The regulations says "Eyas Peregrine falcons may only be taken between 18 and 27 days of age in the nest."

[Tanner]

Tanner, you are correct sir. The regulations says "Eyas Peregrine falcons may only be taken between 18 and 27 days of age in the nest."

Damn game and fish, geeze. Must they control of everything? I like much younger eyases.

[Tanner]

Hey Tanner,

How will you imprint them? I've heard that imprint merlins can turn out to be the worst of screamers.

I'm no expert Paul because I've only imprinted one. However, she didn't make a peep. Unfortunately, not long after she took her first head of game (barely hard penned!) I started CHEM666: Physical Chemistry II- I had to give my her to Pete J, because I was getting crushed. He flew her for a number of years and made some barbary merlins out of her, I think. She was a sweetie.

My two cents: I think that the age at which you take them is most critical. The one I imprinted was about 8 days old when I took her--I'd call that perfect. I think older, around 12-15 days and you are tempting a screamer--don't know why, but I learned that lesson with a prairie a long time ago. Merlin nestlings mature faster than bigger birds, so maybe that is the origin of the comments you've heard?

[Falcon Boy]

CHEM666: Physical Chemistry II-

Doesn't that say it all?

[murraym]

Damn game and fish, geeze. Must they control of everything? I like much younger eyases.


I am not sure but I think this is a federal reg.

[Tanner]

Well, the government always knows best!

If you do go for one Matt, good luck with the take. Snap a lot of photos and post them!

[wesleyc6]

I'm no expert Paul because I've only imprinted one. However, she didn't make a peep. Unfortunately, not long after she took her first head of game (barely hard penned!) I started CHEM666: Physical Chemistry II- I had to give my her to Pete J, because I was getting crushed. He flew her for a number of years and made some barbary merlins out of her, I think. She was a sweetie.

My two cents: I think that the age at which you take them is most critical. The one I imprinted was about 8 days old when I took her--I'd call that perfect. I think older, around 12-15 days and you are tempting a screamer--don't know why, but I learned that lesson with a prairie a long time ago. Merlin nestlings mature faster than bigger birds, so maybe that is the origin of the comments you've heard?

Tanner,
I have often heard people worry about taking a bird too YOUNG and causing a screamer, but that is interesting that you think there is a time when they are VERY YOUNG that is better than a little OLDER. Would you share you reasoning a little? I would like to hear your the WHY behind your theory. I find it intriguing.

[jfseaman]

Hey Tanner,

How will you imprint them? I've heard that imprint merlins can turn out to be the worst of screamers.

I met one that was a quiet as a mouse............................

Until you took the hood off. :eek::eek:

[Zarafia]

Wes, this is just a very uneducated guess, but I am thinking that if you get an eyass young enough, you can get it eating without ever making it very hungry. If an eyass gets to a certain level of maturity it will be scared and then have to get hungry before it eats.
The best example I can relate to is the week old eyass AK I was given by rehabbers. I dont know if kestrels can become screamers. This little guy didnt, even though I didnt make any meaningfull attempt to avoid food association. I just provided him with all he wanted to eat, and for the first few days, force-fed him. He was killing his own mice before being hard-penned.

[Zarafia]

Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever known an AK that was a screamer?

[goshawks00]

Yes I've had several k birds over the years.. all have been large downies , turned in to rehabbers after being found and hand fed until they couldn't stand the noise...
.02
Barry

[Tanner]

Well man, I'm the wrong guy to ask for an opinion on this -- I am by no means, no stretch of the imagination, an expert or even very well experienced in raising imprint merlins. I've only raised one imprint merlin and a peregrine x merlin--neither screamed though.

I think once they are a few weeks old, eyases are well acclimated to the idea that they are fed by something. With a younger bird I think you have a better chance to set it up where it just finds food and eats it by itself (without being hand fed) starting about the time it can feed itself. A bird like that can be easily made to think that the natural way of things is for food to just appear on the lure. That way, the entire concept of a parent is more vague. Think how many totally-quiet imprints are reared every year straight out of the incubator.

That's just my opinion and that's what I'll gun for. I am sure that others will feel radically different.

[Zarafia]

Very interesting Barry.
I guess I just did right by making sure Chriton was never hungry. He was raised for a couple weeks in a fish tank like a baby parrot and once Chriton was mobile I started putting fuzzy mice in the tank for him to play with and eat. He just progressed to getting his own food and never looked to me for it.
Damn, I still hate those barn cats.

[wesleyc6]

Geez, where are all the little imprints???? I know someone out there must have one, so let's see some threads getting started!:D

[goshawks00]

Well I guess I can start it..... And GOD blessed them, saying be "fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the sea, and let the fowls mutilpy in the earth" - Gen1:22

So right now they are in the middle of being fruitful though it's a bit early for the mutiplying amennn

Barry

[tumble]

Is it May in Texas already?

[wesleyc6]

Is it May in Texas already?


confusedd

[tumble]

Just jealous of you southern guys and breeders. :) Nothin' happening up this way for another month or more.

[wesleyc6]

Just jealous of you southern guys and breeders. :) Nothin' happening up this way for another month or more.

Ah, gotcha:D I don't have any chicks yet either. I had one egg to freeze and bust this year. I think the birds thought they were still in GAstupd

[rocgwp]

I'll add to this thread. I have a deposit down on a gyrlin. I am planning on flying it from the fist at small birds (like quail over a pointing dog). I will imprint it and have it going sometime this summer.

[Tanner]

I'll add to this thread. I have a deposit down on a gyrlin. I am planning on flying it from the fist at small birds (like quail over a pointing dog). I will imprint it and have it going sometime this summer.

Male or female?

[wesleyc6]

I'll add to this thread. I have a deposit down on a gyrlin. I am planning on flying it from the fist at small birds (like quail over a pointing dog). I will imprint it and have it going sometime this summer.


Ah man, I forgot to call you back Jeff. I will give you a call tomorrow!

[frootdog]

I'll add to this thread. I have a deposit down on a gyrlin. I am planning on flying it from the fist at small birds (like quail over a pointing dog). I will imprint it and have it going sometime this summer.

What about the gos? Change your mind?

[rocgwp]

I couldn't justify the risk of a gos getting asper here in east Tx. I think it could be done, but I'm not willing to put my money on the line to try it yet. Maybe a couple years down the road. A gos is definitely my dream bird.

This year I'm going with an imprint tiercel gyrlin. I've visited with a couple guys flying them and they seem to fit how I'm hunting. Plus I get the added benefit of the poop falling straight down instead of shooting seven feet across the room.

[BestBeagler]

Isaac,

Imprint one and then see if you still think the same! To read a book and think you have it, well, you just have to do it and see! I can understand your reasoning and thought process, but it just doesn't work like he describes in the book. Every single day there is something you have to deal with and it just isn't easy. Don't get me wrong, I think his recipe works, but it isn't anything exact and you will find this out when you try it. And 2 or 3 weeks of waiting as described in the other method, who cares, it isn't what you have at that exact point in the imprinting process, it is what you have at the end of the season. Imprinting isn't a one season thing, it should be for a bird you are going to fly for the rest of its life. Just my humble opinion!

I know this is an old thread but Fred you were right! LOL The more you think you know in this sport the more you find out there is so much you don't know.

[tumble]

Nice bump, Isaac. That was a great post, Fred.