Eyass Definition

[kimmerar]

Hi everyone. I am hoping to change our definition in our state for "eyass". Arkansas says:

YOUNG BIRDS NOT CAPABLE OF FLIGHT (EYASSES)

I need a link if another state has a different definition. I've heard from here TX has one but I'm not finding it in writing.

Also - what is the definition of Eyass by the USFWS. If they define it like Arkansas does then there is no hope.

I hope someone can help me out here. I've checked out a few states and I'm beginning to wonder if this is a lost cause.

Thanks

[cnoel08]

what are you wanting to change it to?
TN's definition is slightly different in that it says:
Young RAPTORS not yet capable of flight.
and not Young BIRDS...

[Saluqi]

NM Regs:

"Eyass" shall mean a young raptor not yet capable of flight.

[kimmerar]

Thanks Paul, that's all I've found too.

Cameron - just wondering here. What's your regs say??

It's probably a loosing battle, but why not see if any other state has a different definition. And this seems like a good place to ask.

I've email our USFWS director and that could really end it all anyway.

[borderhawk]

Arizona has this:

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A. For the purposes of this Section, the following definitions apply:

1. "Eyas" means a flightless raptor that is found in the nest and is dependent upon a parent bird for food.

3. "Passage" means a raptor in immature plumage, capable of flight and able to hunt and obtain its own food, and which is less than 1 year of age.
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It seems strange to me that most states don't have a definition for inbetween these two. I'm pretty sure you could argue that if it doesn't fit the "passage" definition, then it must be an eyas. At least, that's what I would argue.

[kimmerar]

Arizona has this:

--------------------------------
A. For the purposes of this Section, the following definitions apply:

1. "Eyas" means a flightless raptor that is found in the nest and is dependent upon a parent bird for food.

3. "Passage" means a raptor in immature plumage, capable of flight and able to hunt and obtain its own food, and which is less than 1 year of age.
----------------------------------

It seems strange to me that most states don't have a definition for inbetween these two. I'm pretty sure you could argue that if it doesn't fit the "passage" definition, then it must be an eyas. At least, that's what I would argue.

I'm glad you see what I'm talking about Michelle. I started the arguement but now I have to find something to back it up or I will quit.

Maybe we need to change our passage take definition too. To help out those betweeners. And help a young fledgling not get hit by a car or taken by other birds because they are soooo clumbsy. To me it's a very vunerable time for a young bird.

EDIT: Michelle - can you give me the link - I'm having a hard time finding it. Thanks.

Thanks

[hawkstir]

It sure would be nice to settle on one definition, although I doubt we falconers will ever agree. Also I'm wondering if this becomes mute (no pun intended) with year long take. Go get what you want when you want it.

[kimmerar]

It sure would be nice to settle on one definition, although I doubt we falconers will ever agree. Also I'm wondering if this becomes mute (no pun intended) with year long take. Go get what you want when you want it.

I tried but I'm only one of a few. And our club didn't seem to want that on passage - Someone might take a kestrel or GHO that is rearing babies. We will have year long take - eyass take Jan to July 31 - passage take Aug 1 to Jan 31.

I am sending in my own personal opinion but one comment compared to a club is hard to beat.

[kimmerar]

Michelle I got the link and page #. Thanks

[wesleyc6]

I tried but I'm only one of a few. And our club didn't seem to want that on passage - Someone might take a kestrel or GHO that is rearing babies. We will have year long take - eyass take Jan to July 31 - passage take Aug 1 to Jan 31.

I am sending in my own personal opinion but one comment compared to a club is hard to beat.


If someone would take a parent with babies and know it, then they probably won't be "letter of the law" people regardless. Really, how many people would do that in our entire sport?

If you mean 'accidentally" take a parent, then it could happen period with any small bird that might breed in the first year so immature birds COULD have babies but you wouldn't know.

I say leave it at year round and drop the "eyass" and "passage" birds from the regs period and just say "a bird with at least 75% juvenile" feathers may be taken at any time during the year.

[Todd Brown]

Michelle
Last year I had this very problem. I'd recieved a call about a young hawk on the ground and hadn't moved. When I got there a young RT had gotten tangled in some wire and somehow lost a talon on one of the small toes.Otherwise she was unhurt but really hungry.There were no parents around and I didn't find a nest. We had high winds a few days before and I assumed this was a brancher that had been blown away from home. I took the bird home but decided I couldn't keep her ,so I looked for another falconer.In the transfer papers one of us called the hawk an eyas and the other a passage.There was no brancher option.

The Feds called me on this and questioned the difference. I told them what happened and that this bird I thought was a tweener and explained what a brancher was. This seemed to have satisfied them. They never called back and we had no problems.
_______________
Todd

[FredFogg]

Kim, here is what NC regs say!

"Young birds not capable of flight (eyasses) may not be taken without a special permit issued by the commission."

I agree, this is something that needs to be changed. Thanks for bringing it to my attention as I plan on letting those working on our regs know!

[kimmerar]

If someone would take a parent with babies and know it, then they probably won't be "letter of the law" people regardless. Really, how many people would do that in our entire sport?

If you mean 'accidentally" take a parent, then it could happen period with any small bird that might breed in the first year so immature birds COULD have babies but you wouldn't know.

I say leave it at year round and drop the "eyass" and "passage" birds from the regs period and just say "a bird with at least 75% juvenile" feathers may be taken at any time during the year.

My come back to the taking of parent birds was - my first bird I ever trapped was a female and a male was up on the pole so I released her because I didn't find it ethical. But I guess they think someone else could end up coming in and being unethical so....

Great idea Wes. Are new regs have been typed out and will be turned into the commission this month and hopefully are new regs will go into affect Jan 1, 2010. We actually had 2 people vote on keeping our trapping dates as is. Sept 1 - Jan 31 only on Fri, Sat, Sun, and Mondays. Eyass take May 1 to July 31 - 4 days a week. Weird but.

I just need to come up with a really good letter to send to our falconery coordinator and then get her to back it up and maybe that will help. She told me what she needs so, we'll see.

[kimmerar]

Kim, here is what NC regs say!

"Young birds not capable of flight (eyasses) may not be taken without a special permit issued by the commission."

I agree, this is something that needs to be changed. Thanks for bringing it to my attention as I plan on letting those working on our regs know!

I'm glad I could help. Let me know what you guys end up doing. Changing definitions or what ever. I found it too late. And the person that typed up our regs to go in front of the commission is backing it up but do we want to delay another year for this. If I would have realized this months ago - I'm sure it definately could have been changed. But deadlines.....

Todd - I guess you just answered my question but I'm still going to wait for a reply from Michelle. Darn it.

[kimmerar]

Just got off the phone with Michelle. The wording in the new regs is nestling and bird under 1 year of age. So branchers will be a passage bird from here on out. Better watch those passage take dates. If you want a soar (sore??) hawk.

[borderhawk]

I tried but I'm only one of a few. And our club didn't seem to want that on passage - Someone might take a kestrel or GHO that is rearing babies. We will have year long take - eyass take Jan to July 31 - passage take Aug 1 to Jan 31.



We were fortunate enough to get comments into the AZ regs about that so now our regs specifically only allow eyas kestrels and GHO's in the spring, and eyas AND passage sharpshinned, coops, prairies, and RT's. Passage birds of most shortwings and broadwings can be taken any time from May 1 to Dec 31. Passage merlins and ferruginous can be taken yearround.
http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/h_f/09-10raptor.pdf
Those were just the changes they decided to make right away in response to the new fed regs until we get changed over.

[hawkstir]

I would lean toward something like what Wes said. Year round take with a restriction on adult birds during breeding season, or something similar. What ever is done, it's most important to keep it worded simply so everybody understands it.

[kimmerar]

Well done AZ. Our state wasn't as detailed.

[Eagle Owl]

Kim, here is what Texas defines an eyas as:
(3) Eyas--A young raptor taken from the nest or still in the nest.

THA got further clarification and this is what they conceded was an eyas: A young raptor that can not fly and is still be cared for by its parents, regardless of the bird being on a branch, in the nest, or on the ground.

The Fed regs state this: (1) Young birds not yet capable of flight (eyasses) may only be taken by a General or Master Falconer during the period specified by the State and no more than two eyasses may be taken by the same permittee during the specified period.

[Todd Brown]

My apprentice just found a coopers hawk nest and at least one of the parents still had what looked like (at very close range ,50ft.)complete immature plumage.

So ,at nesting time, a bird with immature plumage may have young to care for.
_____________
Todd

[Dirthawking]

My apprentice just found a coopers hawk nest and at least one of the parents still had what looked like (at very close range ,50ft.)complete immature plumage.

So ,at nesting time, a bird with immature plumage may have young to care for.
_____________
Todd

Yes, but by the time legal trapping time comes, will it still have full immature plumage?confusedd

[kimmerar]

The way Michelle explained it to me - we can change our definition to what ever we want but the stricter law will apply. A brancher is now a passage bird for sure.

The guy that typed up our stuff for the commission meeting will be doing a revision. Due to eyass and passage no longer being defined by the regs we are going to define passage (a bird up to one year old) like the regs have it.

The board members of our club will get email today explaining that we need to change our passage take to June 1st and change some wording. He used eyas and passage. So there is hope that I could still get a brancher/fledgling coops in the future. Hopefully the board will agree.

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I will not really know what we get until all the commission meetings and the feds get the new software going.

[Todd Brown]

Mario

Yes, but the young will be out of the nest and hunting on their own.

I can understand, and agree with, no trapping during nesting time.
_____________
Todd

[Dirthawking]

Mario

Yes, but the young will be out of the nest and hunting on their own.

I can understand, and agree with, no trapping during nesting time.
_____________
Todd

Todd, Mine was more of a retorical type question! :D

[wyodjm]

It may be beneficial in the future to define an eyass as a young raptor hatched that year and have a specific eyass taking season, with specific dates. I say this because here in the west, people may want to take an newly fledged prairie falcon or goshawk that is out of the nest, but is still at the nest site and hanging with the family group.

Traditionally, this would be called a soar hawk. It would be quite easy to catch a fledgling prairie falcon or goshawk on a noose carpet over a dead and bloodied pigeon or quail. Wyoming's legal dates for taking eyass raptors is between June 10 and July 5. The issue of taking fledged eyass raptors in Wyoming has never been an issue of concern for the State of Wyoming as long as a licensed falconer took the bird between these dates.

Some people may specifically look for early fledged birds so that they could intentionally trap a young bird at the nest site on a noose carpet. As I mentioned earlier, however, they would have to do this by the July 5th deadline. Here, in southwest Wyoming, there are plenty of prairie falcons out of the nest ledge but hanging with the family group.

Be careful not to restrict yourself too much with literal definitions. It may close important windows of opportunity. Take dates have worked well here.

Dan

[wesleyc6]

It may be beneficial in the future to define an eyass as a young raptor hatched that year and have a specific eyass taking season, with specific dates. I say this because here in the west, people may want to take an newly fledged prairie falcon or goshawk that is out of the nest, but is still at the nest site and hanging with the family group.

Traditionally, this would be called a soar hawk. It would be quite easy to catch a fledgling prairie falcon or goshawk on a noose carpet over a dead and bloodied pigeon or quail. Wyoming's legal dates for taking eyass raptors is between June 10 and July 5. The issue of taking fledged eyass raptors in Wyoming has never been an issue of concern for the State of Wyoming as long as a licensed falconer took the bird between these dates.

Some people may specifically look for early fledged birds so that they could intentionally trap a young bird at the nest site on a noose carpet. As I mentioned earlier, however, they would have to do this by the July 5th deadline. Here, in southwest Wyoming, there are plenty of prairie falcons out of the nest ledge but hanging with the family group.

Be careful not to restrict yourself too much with literal definitions. It may close important windows of opportunity. Take dates have worked well here.

Dan

Dan what do you think would be the downside of just having a year round take and stating you can take any bird that doesn't have more than 25% adult plumage and then make the eagle wording a little different.

[Jack Mangum]

Wes, any hawk with 25% adult feathers will have to be over a year old. The take of nestlings the first half of the year will definately exclude adults, and there will be no nestlings to worry about the last part of the year. In the area I live in, most RT's are gone from the nests by the 28th of April. But that is locally. The Cooper's here do not go to nest until the trees are fully leafed out. I have seen food being taken to the nest in late June, but most are fledged by the second week of July. Again, that is locally. So for here at least, it would be to our benefit to have it run from Jan to July and August to Dec. There really is no need to alter the designations of eyass or passage, just the rules by which we can take them. As for falconers being able to tell the difference, some many years ago a past President of the THA and 5 or 6 other master falconers called me to come look at a cooper's hawk to see if it was an adult or a passage. Turned out to be a very adult female Sharpie. So identification of a hawk can be in question as well as the age in some cases, and it would be better to have the take seasons well defined to prevent some mistakes.

Jack