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BestBeagler
08-04-2009, 04:56 PM
Hi again folks! remember me? It's been kind of a busy summer for me and I have tried to stay away from NAFEX because I have a tendency to become addicted to it and spend WAY to much time on here :) I thought that it's only fair I post something about my gos as I enjoy reading everyone elseís threads so here goes. It might get a little lengthy!

It all started on June 9th. I picked up a 14 day old male gos from Barry's project which would make him 70 days old today. I tame hacked him at Barry's place and under Barry's guidance. I think Barry had more fun than I did with the tame hack (sorry about the barking dogs every morning Barry). I think the tame hack was great for the bird and will do it again if I have the chance. I started the tame hack around the time he could fly off the ground and continued with it until around hard penning. He was socialized a decent amount. I could have socialized him more around large crowds I guess, but he saw different kinds of dogs, cattle, tractors, cars, lawn mowers, weed whackers, and chainsaws. He wasn't t0o crazy about being petted at first but got used to it and excepted it without complaint. He never really became real friendly with the dog but that's because he wasn't around the dog 24/7. He sometimes goes after the dog if she doesnít behave herself. It took him awhile to get used to riding in the car on his perch but now rides around like a champ with hardly a bate. He loves the giant hood and when it gets dark he will bate of his perch to jump in it. I fed him in it early on and now he just likes being in there. I guess he feels secure. He will jump in the giant hood in the evening and I can leave the door open and he just sits there happy and content.

I pulled him from hack around hard penning, he was 750g. At hard penning he became really jumpy and random things would set him off, my right hand, the dog, a blue towel, a pop bottle, a paper bag, you name it. It took me awhile to get used to this. Here I was reading about all you guys with what it sounds like real docile tame birds and I was wondering what I had done wrong. Anyway, I was starting to wonder if I really was going be able to pull this imprint thing off and not make a basket case out of him.

Thinking back what I would have done differently was start a weight metabolic rate of loss graph as soon as I was starting to regulate his food intake after I pulled him from hack. I think I lost a week or so because of not doing that. Barry put me on the right track ( thanks Barry). I dropped him a bit fast and I think his weight were all over the chart because of the lack of a schedule on my part. I found out how important it is to not just to fly/train him at just any weight but to wait until his metabolic rate slows down.

I though my handling techniques was pretty smooth. I found out differently when dealing with this eyas. Everything gets a little more complicated with an eyas. First I found I was moving too fast around him and I was making in WAY to fast. The fear of the right hand, I thought, was just a weight related thing, but I think it might have been a handling issue. Here is why; whenever he was on a baggie he did not like seeing my hands in front of him, but if I worked from behind him and slid the lure under him from behind, the hands were never an issue. He never even cared if they were there, but if my hands were working in front of him he would act real possessive. So thatís one problem I worked out. I think to often we think, or should I say I thought, the cure all was just to drop weight as a response to bad behavior. I guess the reason why, is because itís easier to drop the weight than to think that you are doing something wrong or could be doing something differently to solve the problem. I also found I was making the mistake of covering the lure with my hand so I had to change my handling there as well. I also found picking him up after he was done eating isnít easy as it sounds in the book. I was waiting WAY to long to pick him up. I find that if you put your glove or hand under their tails while their still preoccupied with food then when their done they just step back on the glove and itís as easy as anything. On a side note, he used to get real jumpy after eating and bate and chitter ( a weight thing).

I have been reading a lot about eyases and how to deal with them and the doís and doníts but itís when your dealing with it in real life remembering everything you read and doing it right takes practice. Itís all there in the book, but practicing it, takes, well, practice J.

On Sunday he caught his first sparrow and on Monday he got his first sparrow triple. I have his weight down to 680gm and I got my nice bird back. No fear of hands, no random bates of fear anymore, no chittering, he takes everything in stride, and calms down quick if anything does startle him. He doesnít chitter in fear after he has a full crop and I pick him up after eating and is quiet totally quiet when he has a crop. So far things are going well and I am really happy. He is back to his crazy tameness, it seems, for now. One thing though, he is real noisy around hunting time but quiets down when we are out hunting and isnít too vocal in the morning itís the hours before we hunt that he gets real noisy. I go out around 6 or 7pm.

I will continue to hunt sparrows with him to get his confidence going then car hawk him and give him some fur baggies and intermittently launch some pheasant for him. I am going to buy a realistic crow decoy and get him going at that so that the transition to crows from starlings wonít be that large.

Sorry for the length of the post and if you read the whole thing I would be amazed! I just had 2 months of catching up to do is all.

Sincerely, Isaac

Ken S.
08-04-2009, 05:03 PM
Thanks for the update!!! I'd like to hear more about the sparrow flights for sure.

Sounds like you're on track and doing well. I'm sure having Barry close by like that is invaluable.

Welcome back.

goshawks00
08-04-2009, 05:18 PM
Isaac has done a pretty good job of 'getting' what the hack and hardpenning events are all about.... This past weekend at the MHC picnic someone ask me about hacking/training an eyas gos... and rather than tell them somethings about it... I had Isaac come over and tell them... It's one thing to try and teach someone something, but quite another to listen to that person as they describe in detail what they were taught and how much they had comprehended.. He did very well and I am looking forward as Isaac and Reiko advance to being a killer team... the stuff is all there, it's just finishing up and honing both their skills.
Barry

canadamanada
08-05-2009, 03:12 AM
Sounds good, Isaac.
Question: why Reiko? That's a Japanese woman's name.

Justin

Roper
08-05-2009, 03:45 AM
Issac
I enjoyed reading about your efforts. please keep us informed on your progress. I beleive the sliding in from the back will also work with the passage birds also.

Barry gave you sound advice if he helped you with that. I have always found that when I want my bird on my fist it is always better to come at them with your fist behind them and then they just step up like you said.

good for u.

tumble
08-05-2009, 05:50 AM
Outstanding, Isaac!

FredFogg
08-05-2009, 08:35 AM
Issac, sounds like you and your gos are doing great! I truly believe if everyone had an experienced gos hawker like Barry around when they did their first imprint, we would have a bunch of outstanding accipiters out there. Not saying that we don't have some good ones, but as far as I am concerened, it is never the imprints fault, it is always the falconers! Looking forward to reading about your progress with him! clapp

BestBeagler
08-05-2009, 08:49 AM
Thanks for the update!!! I'd like to hear more about the sparrow flights for sure.

Sounds like you're on track and doing well. I'm sure having Barry close by like that is invaluable.

Welcome back.

Thanks,
The sparrow flights are cool. He is very maneuverable. I'd say about the same as a female coopers. I was surprised how easy he makes it look once he knows the game. He just drops a foot and grabs them. He's already done the flip over to on his back to grab one. Yesterday, I set the launcher out with a pheasant in it, but I didn't just walk and launch the bird. I went out "hunting" first and got bit by a lot of mosquitoes and got poked by a lot of thorns. Wearing shorts in the field this early is the stupidest thing to do but Iíve already done it twice! Some people are just hard headed I guess :) When I was done "hunting" I walked up to the launcher and pulled the string with my feet. He's picked up the game if I pull the string with my hand. Anyway the pheasant shot up and took off. I didn't think he was going to get it because of his delay. He grabbed it in the air though but first sliced before taking off. When I got there he wasn't eating and wasn't to interested in breaking in. He started after I gave him the feeding whistle. He didn't try to carry it. He seemed a tad bit on the aggressive side, footing my hand. I think I moved it to fast. Also because of the high weight he was more interested in defending rather than eating. He was 695gm. I fed him too much the day before. Yesterday I forgot to calculate the weight of the leash and transmitter so I thought he was lower than he actually was so I fed him more. By the way those silky chickens have dark meat, tough skins, and I think have good nutritional value judging by how much he lost. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-05-2009, 08:50 AM
Isaac has done a pretty good job of 'getting' what the hack and hardpenning events are all about.... This past weekend at the MHC picnic someone ask me about hacking/training an eyas gos... and rather than tell them somethings about it... I had Isaac come over and tell them... It's one thing to try and teach someone something, but quite another to listen to that person as they describe in detail what they were taught and how much they had comprehended.. He did very well and I am looking forward as Isaac and Reiko advance to being a killer team... the stuff is all there, it's just finishing up and honing both their skills.
Barry

Thanks for the kind words Barry. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-05-2009, 08:52 AM
Sounds good, Isaac.
Question: why Reiko? That's a Japanese woman's name.

Justin

It's from the DreamWorks animation "Madagascar" one of the penguins is called Reiko. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-05-2009, 09:01 AM
Issac
I enjoyed reading about your efforts. please keep us informed on your progress. I beleive the sliding in from the back will also work with the passage birds also.

Barry gave you sound advice if he helped you with that. I have always found that when I want my bird on my fist it is always better to come at them with your fist behind them and then they just step up like you said.

good for u.

Yeah, Barry gave me the idea to slide the lure from behind. I also do the lure switches everytime he eats. He never just gets his one meal from one lure. I switch him off to another lure as he almost finnishes the meal on the first one. So in way I am actually pretty active around him as he eats and my hands do get in the way alot. So I have to be more carefull with what I do and how fast and where I move them and how I present myself around him. I still need to work on it. With the passage coopers I've had it was never a problem. Just hold the sparrows leg and throw out the lure and when they were done they would hop up to the fist for a tid bit. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-05-2009, 09:02 AM
Outstanding, Isaac!

Thanks, I've enjoyed following your thread. Sounds like you are doing really well. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-05-2009, 09:11 AM
Issac, sounds like you and your gos are doing great! I truly believe if everyone had an experienced gos hawker like Barry around when they did their first imprint, we would have a bunch of outstanding accipiters out there. Not saying that we don't have some good ones, but as far as I am concerened, it is never the imprints fault, it is always the falconers! Looking forward to reading about your progress with him! clapp

Fred,
It's just so easy to offend them and you don't know what you did. Like McD says in the books they accept your mistakes for a while and then they just say enough is enough and by then you don't know what you did wrong. So you think; drop the weight that will cure it, but might not be the weight. I was struggling with his behavior around hard penning and dispersal. Was it weight? Was it the hardpenning/disppersal? Was it my handling skills? Was it everything? We seem to be on the right track for now. Itís learning curve. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-06-2009, 10:19 AM
I went out again yesterday and had him at 685gm. Got another sparrow double in less then 1/2 an hour. He carry's them. I am inclined to believe is a weight related thing. He comes down to the lure with the whole sparrow though to eat. So even if he is carrying, repetition is teaching him that the ground and the lure is the place to eat. I think I should drop his weight another 5gm after in two more days and see what that does. I don't want carrying to become a habit. It won't be a problem when I get him going on crows. He will learn mighty quick to appreciate me then. I'm thinking his only thought should be "eat here, eat now." Still doing the lure trades as he crops ups. He now has five sparrows under his belt. I think catching wild game is very important. No matter how realistic bagged game will always act like bagged game. They catch on quick. The slowing down before launching, everything. If I was just giving him launched pheasants and pigeon that he could always catch he wouldn't be learning as much. Iím giving him launched birds intermittently, but to be honest with you I would rather be out hunting real quarry. I think it puts muscle on them faster. Yesterday he was turning around in mid air zigzagging back and forth missing and then going back at them losing them again, switching from one sparrow to the next, after losing sight of one of them and going after the next nearest one. He is gaining muscle and after a few flights he starts panting so he is working for them. It was funny yesterday he almost had one sparrow but lost it. He was sure he had it though. His foot was all balled up and he looked down and he couldn't believe he didn't have it. He was looking around all over for it. I stood back I didn't want any part of him thinking I had anything to do with it. Isaac

goshawks00
08-06-2009, 10:55 AM
Isaac how are you catching these sparrows...walking up on them? Time to
stretch him out...get him going in the car... get ready for crow hawking!!!
Carrying for accips is pretty normal at this stage... he innately knows to
go to cover and hide while eating it's his protection, just as coming to you
and the lure is. It's also very hard with an amped up accip catching a small
bird in full flight to stop and start eating... like the hack, this is
something that experience and a LITTLE weight reduction may help. Starling
will give him some fight and may help in this process of having to kill and
eat immediately... Crow season is in now so it's time top get cracking...
Barry

kimmerar
08-06-2009, 11:16 AM
Thanks for sharing all this info with us. I wish I lived close to someone as experienced as Barry to help me through. This helps a bunch. Congrats and it sounds like you're going to have a fun season.

BestBeagler
08-06-2009, 03:27 PM
Isaac how are you catching these sparrows...walking up on them? Time to
stretch him out...get him going in the car... get ready for crow hawking!!!
Carrying for accips is pretty normal at this stage... he innately knows to
go to cover and hide while eating it's his protection, just as coming to you
and the lure is. It's also very hard with an amped up accip catching a small
bird in full flight to stop and start eating... like the hack, this is
something that experience and a LITTLE weight reduction may help. Starling
will give him some fight and may help in this process of having to kill and
eat immediately... Crow season is in now so it's time top get cracking...
Barry

I'm walking up on them at the farm. He is getting gamey and starting to bate for things even after the hunt and a full crop. He eats 80gm of quail to get him at hunting weight the next day. He is using a bit more now actually since we have started hunting. I'll get the crow decoy this afternoon and start car hawking ASAP. Getting him going on Crows is going to be fun. I have seen a lot of them in the wheat fields. I am going to get some rabbits at the auction as well before he gets too wed to feather. He is catching on. He already know the sound of the window opening. As soon as he hears it he lowers his head and looks out. I got him riding on the passenger head rest now as we get near potential slips. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-06-2009, 03:32 PM
Thanks for sharing all this info with us. I wish I lived close to someone as experienced as Barry to help me through. This helps a bunch. Congrats and it sounds like you're going to have a fun season.

Kim,
The goal is to get him going real well before the college semester starts again in August. I have a lot of time to play around with now and I want to get everything "clicking" before I have to go back. I hope the season goes well. I really wish my tercil peregrine was done molting so I could get him on the wing. Those 4 primaries and 2 tail feathers just aren't dropping. The wheat's been harvested and the small birds are back to grouping up and eating in flocks. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-07-2009, 10:34 AM
Went out yesterday to do some car hawking, got a one flight out the window but he pulled off after the big flock of starlings took to flight. Drove around some more and than did some field hawking for sparrows. We ended up flushing a flock of ducks and he took off and was right on top of one going to bind when it dived in the water. I think it was just under the surface because he kind of landed hovered over the water for a second. These gos's are really fast. You don't even really realize it. I was afraid I would have to go for a swim. He is a gamey bird I was surprised he took off after the biggest duck. Glad he didnít catch it. Duck season isnít in yet. Got a few more flights at small birds and he really learned about flushing game his neck was stretched out the whole time. Should have brought a baggie with me to end the day but I didnít. Next time I will. He was really pumped yesterday he couldnít sit still in the car. I had him loose in the car and he was bouncing back and forth from his perch to the passenger head rest. Even after eating he was pumped. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-07-2009, 12:10 PM
Here are some pics.

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp41/bestbeagler/011.jpg
http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp41/bestbeagler/015.jpg

tumble
08-07-2009, 04:04 PM
You're kickin' butt Isaac! When does your duck season usually start? Our meeting is in a couple weeks but it usually starts first of October. Also, that's some interesting wrap over the rope on your perch. What is it? Looks like some sort of green gauze.

harrishawk_79
08-07-2009, 04:20 PM
yes it seems your doing very well with him congrats and that does look intrestion on that wrap please tell us what it is thank you

BestBeagler
08-07-2009, 05:00 PM
For my zone.

Sept.20-21 Youth Hunt
Oct 11-Dec 7
Jan 3-4
Jan 25-March 10

The perch is wrapped with rope and then vet wrap. It's my falconry buddies perch He lent it to me and raves about the stuff. I guess it keeps the perch clean and it's good for the feet. I like the stuff to. Isaac

tumble
08-07-2009, 05:03 PM
I guess no problems with talons getting caught in it then.

So, will you be wearing baggy pants with no belt and your baseball hat on sideways on 9/20? :D (kidding, in case it isn't obvious)


For my zone.

Sept.20-21 Youth Hunt
Oct 11-Dec 7
Jan 3-4
Jan 25-March 10

The perch is wrapped with rope and then vet wrap. It's my falconry buddies perch He lent it to me and raves about the stuff. I guess it keeps the perch clean and it's good for the feet. I like the stuff to. Isaac

Bryant Tarr
08-07-2009, 05:18 PM
I guess no problems with talons getting caught in it then.

So, will you be wearing baggy pants with no belt and your baseball hat on sideways on 9/20? :D (kidding, in case it isn't obvious)

No, man! That for the misguided, punk-ass yute hunt on 9/21.

BestBeagler
08-08-2009, 12:12 PM
I'm going to borrow my girlfriends little brother for the youth hunt :)

Went out again yesterday to do some sparrow field hawking. He took off after some wood ducks as soon as they flushed but it was more of an natural instinct thing because they were a good 300' away when they flushed and they left him in the dust. Fine by me. Walked around a lot he was looking all over the place hunting and not focused on me at all and I got eaten alive by bugs. I then drove to the farm got some flights at some starlings by the cow feed lots but he didn't commit when they took off. Got to do a few lure recalls which was good practice. Finally got a sparrow at the end of the hunt. His mantling time on a kill seems to shorten the more he catches game and is getting used to the routine he was 687 but I want him down to 680. As soon as he came down to the lure the first time he grabbed it and wanted to take off with it a weight thing I am sure. I have had him down to 680 before and his manners were really good focused on eating and thatís about it. He didn't mind me so much around the kill at that weight. But I brought him back up to around 685 because the drop to 680 was a bit to fast. He has been hovering around 685gm for a few days now. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-09-2009, 09:41 AM
Yesterday was by far the best day that I have had with Reiko. Funny how things turn out. He lost less weight than I planned so I he was at 690gm. I thought, "well we aren't going to do to much today." Boy was I wrong. Got some car hawking flights in and then went to the farm to chase sparrows. He was on fire. There is a telephone pole covered in trumpet vine and the sparrows roost in it. He was spiraling up and down that pole chasing them into the trees as they flushed in the open. He showed some "window" intelligence yesterday. He was heading right towards a window as he could see a sparrow on the other side but instead of crashing into it like I thought he would. He pulled off to the side and went around it and around the corner to continue the chase. He was amped. He was taking off looking for them all over the place on speculation. He almost went through the front windshield after a bunny as we were car hawking. Best of all he was a dream to handle. No aggression or possession issues. Picking him up with the lure was so easy and taking the lure away when he wasn't looking was just like you read about. I was very happy. I guess 690gm isn't to high after all. I guess he has put on some muscle. Oh, by the way after all that fun we didn't catch anything. He still screams like a banshee but quiets down when we hunt. He's making the right connections. Isaac

harrishawk_79
08-09-2009, 10:53 PM
thats awesome glad to hear you had a good time sounds like there will be plenty more where that came from good luck keep the posts coming

BestBeagler
08-10-2009, 01:13 PM
Well I wasnít going to post this but it will show what kind of beginner I am and how much I have to still learn. Yesterday I took him out car hawking and field hawking. Got a nice flight at some feral pigeons in an open wheat field. If the wind would have been co-operating or if I would have walked up wind for a better downwind flush we might have had success.

I drove some more and then did some field hawking. I let him take off when he wants unless I know I will be doing something that might make him bate like when I climb over a fence. Anyway, I was walking along and suddenly he takes off. I have no idea what he was after until I saw a bunch of birds take off from a bird feeder behind an old peoples home. The flight was about 150' I didn't think he would connect and I see him land on top of the roof. Then I see him start plucking. He did catch one. I thought cool. No big deal I'll call him down to the lure and he will bring the sparrow with him.

I pull out the lure and as I walk towards him he fly's off to another part of the roof, with the sparrow. Then he flies to the top of the TV antenna and then he flies around the whole building and I loose sight of him. I pull out the telemetry and I am getting a signal towards a corn field near the building I think, "oh good he's at the edge of the field eating it somewhere. It turns out he was about 200 feet in the corn. Marshall telemetry is the BEST! I could not see him until I was about 4 feet away and the receiver put me right by him. Hard to trust the telemetry sometimes.

He was a bit of an jerk on the kill at his weight of 690gm and footed me twice. Also I noticed his lure response wasn't immediate. I thought 690gm was fine but then I looked back over my log the day when he was acting so well at 690gm he was actually closer to 680 something grams at the time because if I calculate his gram per-hour loss from when he was 690gm to when he was acting so good he would have actually been closer to 680 something grams and it was in the evening so that would have some effect on his behavior. We will see how he does today.
Isaac

Bryant Tarr
08-10-2009, 01:53 PM
nothing wrong with that bud! I'd be proud to post it. You went hawking, caught something, and came home with your bird. All that stuff in between happens to all of us ALL THE TIME! Good work! clapp

hawkstir
08-10-2009, 06:04 PM
Nothing wrong with any of that. clapp

Now you know to pay attention to the details and start fine tuning.

tumble
08-10-2009, 06:05 PM
Yeah Isaac, don't sweat it. My gos has been flying HARD at launched quail and catching them at 32 oz. Problem is I want her at more like 31 because she's being a bitch at the kill after those 300-400 yard flights. I keep taking 10-15 grams off her meal every day but every day she lands square at 32 oz even. So her metabolism appears to be slowing big time. This is a tricky time for weight management I think and we bare the brunt of it at the kill. I think bigger game and lower weight is slightly over due.

FredFogg
08-10-2009, 07:11 PM
Yeah Isaac, don't sweat it. My gos has been flying HARD at launched quail and catching them at 32 oz. Problem is I want her at more like 31 because she's being a bitch at the kill after those 300-400 yard flights. I keep taking 10-15 grams off her meal every day but every day she lands square at 32 oz even. So her metabolism appears to be slowing big time. This is a tricky time for weight management I think and we bare the brunt of it at the kill. I think bigger game and lower weight is slightly over due.

Tom, your scale is stuck! LOL

tumble
08-10-2009, 09:03 PM
Tom, your scale is stuck! LOL

Man, you'd think! When I said every day I was just referring to the last three or four nights. But her keel says she's a little fat too as do her manners until she starts eating. Then she turns back into the good witch who finishes her meal then wipes her beak on the glove and steps up. Gave her bobwhite tonight..lower quality than the coturnix. Summer sucks. :)

tumble
08-10-2009, 09:04 PM
Isaac, did he charge you at all? That happened to me the other night. No mantling or screaming. Just left the kill to defend it. Fat.

BestBeagler
08-11-2009, 11:08 AM
No he hasn't charged me, but he has kaked at me. I think I could have avoided being footed if I let him calm down more. Still though, it didn't bother him before when he was at a lower weight. I went out yesterday to the farm and got a few flights and he flew around a lot. I gave him many slips at starlings yesterday that were within 20' but he wouldn't go after them and I know for a fact he could have caught one if he wanted to based on what I have seen him do on the wing. I decided to give him a launched pheasant to end the day with a kill and it he didn't take off immediately. I could see him analyzing the pheasant before he took off after it. He caught it in the air as it flew into the trees and I let him cool down before making in and he still was dragging the pheasant around even after he had broke in. He transferred off like a champ though. I am going to lower him to 675gm. He should be going after those flocks of starlings with more enthusiasm. I know he can do it.

His screaming is driving me nuts. I am going to switch up the routine and fly him in the mornings so he can be around me through out the day with a full crop instead of being around me being hungry all day. We will see if it makes a difference. Thanks for the encouragement guys. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-14-2009, 11:50 AM
Things have been going well with Reiko, albeit the fact that he is a bit noisy. His manners aren't bad. He hasn't footed me. Aggression hasn't seemed to become a pattern, although his carrying is worrying me. I think I have been a bit cautious with the weight reduction. Maybe not, I don't know. He caught a sparrow in the air the other day in an open faced barn and he could have landed with it but purposely went out of his way to carry. He just grabbed it out of the air and made a u turn and kept going and then flew to a big maple tree and was all excited but it took him a long time to start eating and he flew around with it. He wouldn't come down to the lure with it and ate it in the tree but when he was done he came down in a flash.

Fear response has resurfaced after he eats sometimes and requires a little more finesse to get him to step back on the glove during the pick up. I have noticed a trend. If he is a bit high in weight he doesn't pick up as nicely. Also, the occasional chittering and bate off the glove after he has a full crop and I pick him up tells me he is a bit heavy. I have noticed him refusing slips he would usually go after as well and sometimes I get some head rearing from him when I try to pet him after he has a full crop. Here is where I stair step the weight down again I guess.

I have introduced him to the crow lure. He went for it pretty quick, but didn't land on it at first but sat next to it and footed it a few times and cacked at it and then jumped on it when he saw the meat and mantled over it.

I am slowly dropping his weight and things are clicking except for the carrying thing. I am glad the aggression thing hasn't become worse and his manners are getting better. Isaac

FredFogg
08-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Isaac, get him on crows, that will put a stop to the carrying real quick. Strictly hunt him on crows until he doesn't even attempt to drag the crow and I bet he will come to the ground with a sparrow after that. He is doing great, looking forward to watching his progress. A few pics would be nice! toungeout:D

tumble
08-14-2009, 09:12 PM
You know I'm on my first, but I was going to say what Fred said along with the weight reduction you mentioned. Probably time to get away from the small stuff.

goshawks00
08-14-2009, 09:37 PM
Yea I was going to say that also... in fact I did, see post #15toungeout

Barry

BestBeagler
08-14-2009, 10:04 PM
I'm getting there folks :) Slowly, but I'm getting there. Flew him again today He was 680gm at 2:00pm. Again he refused a lot of slips he would have gone after before chased a few birds but didn't catch anything. I ended the day by letting him eat off the crow decoy. He was pretty aggresive toward it and mad at it for some reason. He was jumping all over it and footing it. His weight will be lower tomorrow. The thing is, I have been feeding him too much and I don't just want to cut his weight too much to fast. A slow drop over a couple of days is the goal. He will be down to 675gm tommorow morning and we will see if he will go after some starling via car hawking. If not, he gets dropped to 670gm. Isaac

voslerdo
08-17-2009, 07:35 PM
Just started following the thread....been busy with the vineyard,winery and work. Looks like things are going quite well! He sure is a pretty bird! Mine is just about finished with the molt, so I'm hoping to get him out soon. I'm also going to try for crows this year. Did you make the crow lure yourself? I failed last year to try to get him to fly from the car. What would be the first steps in getting him to do this? Hope to get up there this year. Love to have you visit me...you're welcome anytime! I'll keep up on the thread as time permits...keep posting pics!

BestBeagler
08-18-2009, 11:56 AM
Things have been going really well these last 3 days with Reiko. Iíve got his weight down to 675 and he is now chasing everything, but I think if I want to bring out the killer in him I should drop him to 670. He has shown me what he is capable of fitness wise. A full grown rooster pheasant flushed by accident about 50 feet in front of us and he was able to get onto it no problem just sucked that thing up and kind of came along side it like he was going to bind to it from the side but then pulled off and tail chased till it landed and went after it as it landed. They went over a hill and I lost sight of them and I found him on the ground without the pheasant. Glad he didn't catch it. In the last few days his chased and has made ducks dive under the water. It kind of makes you cringe hoping he doesnít connect. I'm feild hawking him and there are ponds near by. I have also had some nice flights at starlings but he doesnít seem to go after them like he does after pigeons. He has become a joy to work with and his manners are great. Very nice bird and I am really happy with him. He is a bit vocal that's all but that should go away with time. Now I'm just hunting him and enjoying the ride. No complications to work through anymore at the moment just having fun and putting a lot of game up in front of him. He is so tame it's ridiculous he is just a sweetheart. He is back to where he was before he was hard penned. He still kaks and goes after the dog if she doesn't behave herself. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-18-2009, 12:04 PM
Just started following the thread....been busy with the vineyard,winery and work. Looks like things are going quite well! He sure is a pretty bird! Mine is just about finished with the molt, so I'm hoping to get him out soon. I'm also going to try for crows this year. Did you make the crow lure yourself? I failed last year to try to get him to fly from the car. What would be the first steps in getting him to do this? Hope to get up there this year. Love to have you visit me...you're welcome anytime! I'll keep up on the thread as time permits...keep posting pics!

Hey Scott! How it going? I bought the decoy at Cabelas for $14.00 it was a good deal. It has this shiny felt kind of stuff on it so it looks kind of realistic. It's bigger then a crow. I don't know if it will do any good or not. I have been having a hard time finding crows slips that are close at the moment. Once it gets a bit cooler I'll come down. Thanks for the invite. Your welcome up here anytime as well. Once pheasant season is in we can arrange a pheasant hunt. Isaac

tumble
08-18-2009, 07:09 PM
Glad to hear things seem to be smoothing over Isaac! Man, I'd hate to think of what that rooster might have done to a young male. Part of the game though, eh?

tumble
08-19-2009, 05:38 AM
I'd hate to think of what that rooster might have done to a young male.

I'd like to reverse this statement. I'd hate to think of what that young male might have done to a rooster.

:D

BestBeagler
08-19-2009, 11:23 AM
Tom,
It's all fun and games now. The rest of the family went on vacation for 5 days so I get to keep the bird in the house for some non food association time. I have the radio turned up and cotton in my ears. That high pitched scream really gets to you. I drove around yesterday for about 2 hours looking for a slip and didn't find anything until I got home. Got a flight at some starlings and then he nabbed a sparrow to end the day. Isaac

musketdaft
08-19-2009, 11:46 AM
Isaac My wifeís in Mexico for two weeks was thinking of bringing Whip into the home although I donít think my ears could take it.;) Alf.



Tom,
It's all fun and games now. The rest of the family went on vacation for 5 days so I get to keep the bird in the house for some non food association time. I have the radio turned up and cotton in my ears. That high pitched scream really gets to you. I drove around yesterday for about 2 hours looking for a slip and didn't find anything until I got home. Got a flight at some starlings and then he nabbed a sparrow to end the day. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-20-2009, 08:36 AM
Isaac My wifeís in Mexico for two weeks was thinking of bringing Whip into the home although I donít think my ears could take it.;) Alf.

Get yourself an ipod or mp3 player and you will be fine :) Isaac

goshawks00
08-21-2009, 08:59 AM
Isaac's first crow --story to follow,
Barry

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x301/bollette/IMG_1482Medium.jpg

jballone
08-21-2009, 11:03 AM
Great job Isaac! Crow looks like a good sized one. Can't wait for the story!!

FredFogg
08-21-2009, 11:07 AM
Awesome Isaac! I knew it was only a matter of time! He will be slaying them regularly now! clapp

BestBeagler
08-21-2009, 11:18 AM
I went out car hawking this morning looking for starlings or crows. I didn't find any starlings, but I found three or four crows. I saw them and Reiko saw them to but I didn't stop immediately because I wasn't ready and I didn't want to spook them by slowing down and stopping so I drove past them and got Reiko ready and rolled down the window and Reiko was after them before the car even stopped. The slip was about 30 feet and that crow didn't get even 3 feet off the ground. It was fast. I couldn't believe he had it. It was kind of surreal. He was 673gm. No carrying, good manners, and smooth trade off. I let him pluck it a good while and calm down. They are thick-skinned buggers with huge heads. First crow I ever saw up close. I have tried hunting them with a shotgun but never succeeded. It took a gos for me to finally get one :) I was really excited. Ever since watching the DVD "Urban Goshawks" I have wanted to hawk them. This was the first slip of the day and his first slip at a crow ever and he caught the first one he ever chased how's that for a confidence boost for him? I never bagged him on any either. Barry breeds some good goshawks. I think the crow decoy made a difference in his response to them. Yesterday, was the first day he went after the decoy as soon as he saw it from 40'. He was real aggressive on it jumping all over it rolling around and footing it. It is amazing how "shushing" them before a slip helps keys them in, they cran their neck out looking all over the place for something to flush. This was exciting and a good confidence booster for him and I will continue giving him close slips but once he has dozen or so crows I want to try him at some longer slips. I am not crazy about the idea of just mugging them. I could do that with a harris ;)

Thanks for posting the pic Barry. Dial-up is a pain.

BestBeagler
08-21-2009, 11:23 AM
Great job Isaac! Crow looks like a good sized one. Can't wait for the story!!

It was 400gm minus the wings. I cut them off to add them to the crow decoy to make it more realistic.

BestBeagler
08-21-2009, 11:31 AM
Awesome Isaac! I knew it was only a matter of time! He will be slaying them regularly now! clapp

I hope so. Crows don't seem very fast. From what I have seen watching the DVD they use their brains more than anything to avoid getting caught. When I came back home I tied him up to the perch and he jumped off as I was tying the knot to take a sip of water from the bath pan and take a bath. Got to love imprints. He is stone cold silent now, surprisingly. I guess fighting crows and a full crop helps with screaming. Isaac

FredFogg
08-21-2009, 12:34 PM
I hope so. Crows don't seem very fast. From what I have seen watching the DVD they use their brains more than anything to avoid getting caught. When I came back home I tied him up to the perch and he jumped off as I was tying the knot to take a sip of water from the bath pan and take a bath. Got to love imprints. He is stone cold silent now, surprisingly. I guess fighting crows and a full crop helps with screaming. Isaac

The more he catches, the quieter he will get! The smallest crow I caught with my coops was 512 g, she weighed 375 g. And you are right, crows aren't fast, but they are smart. My best flights were when the crows saw her coming and took off and got a little steam up and she had to put on the after burners. She would then fly right up on top of them and grab their neck with one foot and their back with the other and ride them to the ground. She was always glad when I got there to help out. My best flight with the gos last year was when he took one in the huge grassy front yard of a high school on a Saturday. One of the other crows flew down and tried to grab his tail and he just let go of the one he had and grabbed it. The first one flew off. I never really knew if that counted as 2 catches or only 1. LOL

BestBeagler
08-24-2009, 06:38 PM
Well, things have been going real well. Iím providing a lot of slips for him. Getting crow flights regularly, almost every morning. I think he might be a bit high still though. Or it might be inexperience. Twice, I have seen him just a wing beat away from a crow and watch him not commit. Lowest I have had him was 665gm and he was on fire flying at starlings with gusto and chasing everything and bating at birds while still in the car. His manner were perfect at this weight and I could handle him bare handed during the pick up. In fact I handle him bare handed a lot during the pickup itís good for him. I brought him back up to 669 today and he was doing just as well and I think he might have had a bit more zip to him. When caught the crow a few days ago he was at 673. Today at 669gm he chased a pheasant for a quarter mile. I am not exaggerating. The initial flush was 10 feet away and he was closing the gap slowly he was about 5 feet behind it for the majority of the flight and starting getting closer the farther they flew and then the pheasant dumped and he lost it on the ground. Fine by me. I was field-hawking sparrows. Got some nice flights at some pigeons and starlings as well this morning. He was just about to grab the starling when it dropped and did a 180. Reiko was a little surprised I think. He then flew up to a high pole and then launched off after something else. I couldn't tell what it was. The cool thing is, he comes to the whistle and looks for me even when he can't see me. So that's kind of nice. This morning he took off the glove and landed in a tall dead tree and instead of calling him down I walked off. I called his name and he followed me. I walked some more and he decided he didn't want to be left alone so he flew to me and I offered him the glove and he landed on it. I then dropped the lure so that he wouldn't notice and walked up to it. That should help re-enforce the free recalls to the glove. I actually get a decent amount of free re-calls from him. I think it's because he is getting the idea that game gets flushed while he is on the fist. I think I might wind-up this thread, only posting the highlights here and there. He is now going nuts after the crow decoy. Isaac

BestBeagler
08-26-2009, 05:58 PM
Second crow! It was raining this morning but I decided to go out car hawking anyway. I saw a good amount of crows today but the slips were to far off for him at this stage. I found a small murder of crows, about 8 of them, in somebodyís yard. The house was set back a bit and there were some trees blocking a view and I decided that I would risk it. The slip was about 50'. I let Reiko out the window and the Crow jinxed and flew up into a tree, big mistake, he grabbed it out of the tree and came down with it. The crow gave him a bit of a time trying to peck him and then the other crows gave him some dive-bombing but he held on and this time he actually looked at me like he was glad I was there to help! The crow weighed in at 512gm. These crows really do look slow compared to other quarry but they sure are fun to catch.

I went out yesterday morning and he was 672gm his manners were fine and everything but he didn't give chase to things he would have chased earlier at the same weight. So I dropped him to 666gm this morning and he just nabbed that crow like it was the easiest thing.

I have been struggling deciding whether or not to drop his weight from the 673gm range. I let his response to quarry be my guide and it paid off. I was thinking, I can keep him at a heavier weight and get a lot of flights but if I keep flying him at a high weights and just get a lot of flights and no kills I might be destroying his confidence and if I am ever going to get him to be quiet I need him to be killing stuff. So now I have him down to 666-665gm and we are back at it with no behavioral issues or bad manners. If I just based his weight reduction on his manners on the lure I could fly him a lot heavier. He has picked up on the routine now so I think I have to go by his response to quarry.

It's that stair step drop over time you read about. It's cool seeing it in person and not just reading about it. Oh, one more thing. He gets stone silent now when we are in the field for the most part. He quiets down in the car to, after awhile. Especially if he knows a slip is imminent. He is getting the big picture. Isaac

FredFogg
08-26-2009, 07:42 PM
Way to go Isaac! I think you mentioned it before, but if not, one thing I always do when I am coming up on some crows is I start whispering to the gos and I will say "Shhhhhhhhhhh" as I am about to let him go. You would be amazed at how they will slick down when you start whispering and then when you start the "shhh", you can see the muscles in the bird quivering anticipating the take off. You mentioned that the crows are very fast, well, the better flights will happen when you release him at crows that are 100 yards out in a field. But keep building his confidence and then those flights will happen. Oh yeah, the best time to carhawk crows is when it is sprinkling or raining, they seem to be out more then. Keep up the great work and I am still waiting for some pictures, please! boxingg

BestBeagler
08-27-2009, 09:45 AM
I do "shush" him before a slip. He stretches his neck high and looks all over the place. A 100 yard slip at crows sounds like it would be some nice flight! Can't wait till he is at that stage. For now it's just confidence building slips. Raining again this morning. I fed him too much yesterday and I put him in the giant hood last night so he didn't loose as much. Should be at flying weight this afternoon. I'll try to get some pictures, but if I am in somebodys yard you will understand why I try to get in and out of there fast :) Isaac