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rocgwp
05-21-2010, 11:38 PM
After releasing my female passage coops and waiting to see if the little hybrid falcon will recover fully or not, I decided to pull another coops to imprint. There is just something about those little guys I really like. I am still looking for the local sharpie nest, but that will be for down the road.

Today I pulled a ~3 day old coops. I am hoping for a tiercel, but at this age it is a crap shoot. I chose the one with the thinner legs. The plan is to imprint him with full food association (via the help of some experienced falconers) using operant conditioning methods and tame hack him.

Here are pics from the day...

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/Coopersclimb2.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/CoopersClimb3.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/CoopersClimb4.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/CoopersClimb5.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/CoopersClimb6.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/CoopersHawk3days2.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/CoopersHawk3days.jpg

conorhawk
05-21-2010, 11:56 PM
Finally a Cooper's thread! Keep it updated please!

Eragon
05-21-2010, 11:58 PM
Congratulations! Can't wait to see the little guy grow up! Post lots of pictures please!

passagejack
05-22-2010, 12:05 AM
Congrates Jeff. Looking forward to hearing how this training turns out. I've heard good things about this training method! Hope it turns out well! Please keep us informed.

kitana
05-22-2010, 07:34 AM
I'll be following this thread religiously, as this is what I want to do in the near future. Good luck!

Mike O
05-22-2010, 08:49 AM
The plan is to imprint him with full food association (via the help of some experienced falconers) using operant conditioning methods and tame hack him.


Could you explain this a little more?

rocgwp
05-22-2010, 10:26 AM
I am hand feeding the bird and establishing a conditioned reinforcer currently. As the bird develops I will use this to shape the behaviors I want and to cure problems as they arise. Once the bird begins to branch I'll do a day time hack with some interaction during the day and it will roost in my living room.

rocgwp
05-22-2010, 05:31 PM
4 Days Old

Eating every 4 hours during the day. He's on supplemental heat to keep him warm right now. Not a lot of excitement. He eats, sleeps a lot, and poops...

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/738fab34.jpg

Mike O
05-22-2010, 07:14 PM
Jeff -

I hope you can keep posting how you are doing with your Cooper’s Hawk. I think that this kind of journal one of the best things about NAFEX. I'm particularly interested in how you do with the behavior modification strategy.


A couple of years ago a member kept a journal about his imprinting a Sharp-shinned Hawk. I found it so valuable that I edited it down into a Publisher document that I’ve kept as a reference ever since.


Though it is about a Sharpie, I thought you might like to see it to help anticipate what you might encounter with your hawk over the next couple of months. Sharpies develop faster than Cooper’s – but I think they go through all of the same stages. There are pictures of the bird every few days for the first month that I've found very useful.

http://www.netexpress.net/~okeefe/Temp/Journal%20for%20Minnie.pdf

rocgwp
05-22-2010, 09:08 PM
Thanks Mike! There was some great reading in that sharpie journal. I kept a semi-detailed thread on my last imprint coops Bullet (http://www.nafex.net/showthread.php?t=2425) . He was a lot of fun to fly. I imprinted him with the recipe and then did a daytime hack. This time I am using oc methods instead of complete non-food association before hacking. It will be a learning experience and hopefully yall can learn from mistakes and successes. There will be a lot of blood, sweat, and tears going into making this bird. Just hopefully not too much blood (atleast mine)...

kitana
05-23-2010, 06:17 PM
I'm interested in knowing at what age the bird will make the association between the CR and the food, you know, that "lightbulb" moment?

rocgwp
05-23-2010, 09:36 PM
5 days old

He hasn't had that "lightbulb" moment yet. He is struggling to stay sitting up and and is learning to eat better. I have already noticed growth in him. Starting to see some pigment in his talons come in.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/1de3cea0.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/92ea806c.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/0db43946.jpg

rocgwp
05-24-2010, 09:17 PM
6 days old

It's amazing the difference a day makes. Today his eyes began changing from the hazy blue to being able to see pupils form. He was a lot easier to feed because it appeared he could somewhat focus on the food. His head control has improved greatly as well.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/fa78a1b1.jpg

frootdog
05-25-2010, 08:24 AM
it appeared he could somewhat focus

At least one of y'all can focus. :D

goshawks00
05-25-2010, 08:36 AM
Jeff, Congrats on the coop, I love anything imprint accip.wise!! Mind sharing how are you supplying 'supplemental heat"?

Takasho
05-25-2010, 11:22 AM
How did I miss this thread! confusedd Looking forward to following along!

rocgwp
05-25-2010, 01:57 PM
Barry,

I am supplementing heat with a small brooder lamp. I have a thermometer in his nest box to make sure he isn't too hot or cold.

rocgwp
05-27-2010, 12:45 AM
8 days old

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/4bc3b3b3.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/6707552a.jpg

REYNALDO
05-27-2010, 10:00 AM
cute little bird! im looking forward to its progress. good luck

dirthawker2004
05-27-2010, 04:20 PM
they are cute at that age. its the hard pen that they arent as cute lol. congrats and have fun.

rocgwp
05-28-2010, 05:09 PM
10 days old

Today is the first time I have noticed Picco responding to the CR. Now I can begin shaping behaviors. I plan to begin tagging:

Any calm behavior
Moving toward me and looking for me
Muting
Hooding
Letting me pet and touch him


I am also beginning to change his feeding sessions. Instead of focusing on cropping him up, I will attempt to stretch a session out so I can shape behavior and increase the interaction time. If he is not interested in food, I will skip that feeding 'til later.

As he gets more mobile I will focus on shaping other things...

tyler1998
05-28-2010, 06:03 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but what is the reason for tagging the muting?

dirthawker2004
05-28-2010, 08:12 PM
silly boy its toilet training LOL

tyler1998
05-28-2010, 08:14 PM
you mean create a command that will get the bird to go when you want? like before you go inside after flying? I didn't realize it was possible to teach a bird that!

hawking
05-28-2010, 10:27 PM
I have never tried to do it with a Raptor before, but I think some caution is order when you are teaching a bird to poop on command.

There are parrots that when this is done, desire the reward so bad that if the person forgets to give the command that they will hold it and end up doing damage to themselves in the process.

Just a word of caution.

rocgwp
05-29-2010, 10:47 AM
11 days old

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/82943bf1.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/3c883b9d.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/7295fc62.jpg

The reason I am tagging muting is to potentially shape where the bird mutes (i.e. against the wall instead of into the room.) A falconer that imprinted a gos last year noticed that in his house, the bird would fly to a perch and mute toward the wall. We'll see...

cllhawker
05-29-2010, 03:16 PM
good luck and hope to see more pics! hes a cute little guy. good luck!!!
rtsqrl

MrBill
05-30-2010, 12:28 PM
Hey Conor,

I used to live right down the road from you in Fallbrook. There was nothing but wide open fields in Temecula in those days :-)

Bill B.
Norman, OK

rocgwp
05-31-2010, 11:17 PM
13 days old

A fun development tonight when feeding. I set the quail down in front of Picco as usual. He got excited and began to reach for the quail. He then stopped and sat back on his haunches anticipating the CR and being fed. It was the first time where I have seen him offer a behavior that will get him fed.

kitana
06-01-2010, 07:28 AM
That's cool! How do you manage his hunger vs the clicker training? Do you always give him full crops, do you wait until he begs before feeding him, etc... Very interesting!

rocgwp
06-01-2010, 02:00 PM
I had been feeding him on a 4 hour schedule with 10 pm being the last feeding until the next morning. I don't crop him at every feeding. I feed while he is interested and stop when he is done. He pretty much dictates when to stop feeding him. I try to stretch a feeding out over a period of 30 minutes or so if I can. This just gives me more time to shape things I like.

I just switched him to a 5 hour schedule to let the hunger build a little more between feedings. He has done the same thing today that he did yesterday. I just finished feeding him and it was obvious that he understands that sitting and waiting is how he makes me feed him. He sat and watched me open a quail and cut it into tidbits in front of him. Once I tagged his calm behavior he lunged for that tidbit.

rocgwp
06-01-2010, 02:04 PM
14 days old

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/7ef02ccc.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/e5d5e28b.jpg

MourneMan
06-01-2010, 04:00 PM
Hi Jeff
This Is shaping up to be a very very interesting thread. Good luck with the process.
Cheers
Malcolm

FredFogg
06-01-2010, 07:10 PM
Hey Jeff,

Very interesting thread! Any chance you could video a feeding session so we could see how you feed him and the whole process?

Thanks,

YARAK191
06-01-2010, 09:48 PM
This is an education and a half n i second the motion for a video!!

kitana
06-01-2010, 10:11 PM
Jeff, thanks for starting this thread. And thanks to all the forum members for not flaming him down for using clicker training, that is refreshing! I sooo love this forum for that respectful attitude.

Jeff, you said something that disturbed me a little. You said you spanned the meals on a 30 minutes lenght of time. My question is: how long is his attention span??? My hawk has an attention span when doing clicker training of more or less 4-5 minutes. I trained chicken and pigeons, and their attention span was around 5-6 CLICKS! Not even 1 minute. The animals I found out had the greater attention span were horses and big cats, I could work with them for 10-15 minutes. Most animals though could come back to training after a 5-10 minutes break. So please explain me how you do, do you take breaks in your 30 minutes meal?

rocgwp
06-01-2010, 10:47 PM
I'll see if I can get a video at some point...no promises though. Right now pics are easy since i can take and upload them with my phone.

I get the longer feeding session at this point mainly because he isn't very mobile yet. Layman suggested stretching it out as long as possible so I get more interaction time. My goal in a session isn't to crop him up, but to develop the interaction. It usually looks something like this:

Me feeding him several pieces of meat (while he sits on his haunches). He then walks to the edge of the pan and mutes. I tag that and then feed him a couple more pieces while he is sitting calmly. He then dozes off and wants to nuzzle up under my hand. I touch his back and let him sleep for a little bit then tag that. He wakes up and eats a couple more pieces. I slide the hood on take it off and tag it. He then goes back to sleep. Etc..

It is not one continuous feeding session (meaning me pumping food down him). It's bits and pieces at a leisurely pace.It just depends on how much time I have to spend with him.

My understanding is that it is about to change however. I have been told that once he is mobile, he will start offering lots of behaviors, get vocal, and probably go through an aggressive stage at some point. I will have to shape him through it, hopefully.

MourneMan
06-02-2010, 07:09 AM
Jeff, thanks for starting this thread. And thanks to all the forum members for not flaming him down for using clicker training, that is refreshing! I sooo love this forum for that respectful attitude.

Jeff, you said something that disturbed me a little. You said you spanned the meals on a 30 minutes lenght of time. My question is: how long is his attention span??? My hawk has an attention span when doing clicker training of more or less 4-5 minutes. I trained chicken and pigeons, and their attention span was around 5-6 CLICKS! Not even 1 minute. The animals I found out had the greater attention span were horses and big cats, I could work with them for 10-15 minutes. Most animals though could come back to training after a 5-10 minutes break. So please explain me how you do, do you take breaks in your 30 minutes meal?

Hi Audrey
Can I take it that you're referring to a certain thread on a forum on this side of the pond:lol
I feel for 'LOKI' and 'SD' as they're so sincere in their posts.
It is good that they have you to support them.
Cheers
Malcolm

kitana
06-02-2010, 08:21 AM
Jeff, a video would be awesome! Nothing better than watching a little chick doze off! lol:D But now I see what you do better, thanks for the explanations.

Malcolm, yeah I might be referring to a certain forum, however, it's not the first time the mention of clicker training on a falconry forum starts an ugly discussion. I'm not one who likes to fight for my opinions, I'm more for practical experiences than speaches, experience speaks for itself, but sometimes you just can't sit there and read without raising your hand to speak.

Aman
06-02-2010, 03:48 PM
I look forward to this thread. All the best

Mzingie
06-02-2010, 04:07 PM
Hi Jeff, Thanks a lot for starting this thread I look foward to updates all the time and will continue to follow this :D

SOF
06-02-2010, 08:03 PM
Nice work,
Glad to see another Clicker trained hawk is coming along just fine. Looking forward to see this little guy grow up. My guess is he will exhibit more behaviors then your average Cooper's. ;)

Thanks Kitana for pointing me to this thread.

Cheers,
Loki

rocgwp
06-04-2010, 01:20 AM
17 days old

Picco is standing for 10-20 second intervals now. No other major changes. I'm pretty sure he is a male, he weighed 240 grams a couple days ago.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/e32d3c63.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/c59adbbf.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/107dde45.jpg

rocgwp
06-07-2010, 10:53 AM
20 days old

Picco is now standing well and hopping and flapping. I have changed his feeding routine a little to begin shaping what his behavior will be like on a kill. I now approach his nest bowl with a quail carcass. I set it in the bowl and open it and cut it as I have been doing. I CR his calmness and give him a couple tidbits. I then walk away and leave the food with him. I wait for him to reach down and pluck the carcass or grab meat. At that instant, I CR and return to him and begin tearing some food from the carcass and handing it to him. The goal is for plucking and tearing to become a cue for the bird to give when it wants me to feed him. It puts the bird in control of something he wants (food). It also makes it a positive thing for me to approach him. When he catches, I won't make in until he gives the cue. Once there, he will already be accustommed to me tearing, moving, and handling his food. I should be able to give him a couple tidbits or transfer him to the lure quickly and go for another kill.



No pictures today...I have jury duty...

MourneMan
06-07-2010, 05:40 PM
"The goal is for plucking and tearing to become a cue for the bird to give when it wants me to feed him. It puts the bird in control of something he wants (food). "

Very interesting Jeff. It will be intriguing to see how this particular training target progresses.
(apologies if the terminology isn't correct:lol)
Cheers
M

rocgwp
06-09-2010, 05:32 PM
22 days old

Picco has caught on to the new feeding routine. I walk in and place the carcass in the bowl. He stands or sits and waits while I cut it up. I then CR him and hand him a couple tidbits. I move away and then he steps forward and begins to grab the meat. I CR that and then step back up and begin tidbitting him again. I repeat this several times in a session.

I put anklets on him the other night via the use of a strobe light. I probably could have put them on without it, but I used the strobe to help prevent any fear association with me.

I will be installing a backpack transmitter sometime this next week most likely. i am getting close to hack time.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/30e3058a.jpg

rocgwp
06-11-2010, 09:48 PM
24 days old

More of the same right now. I have introduced the lure. Also, in preparation for hack, I am letting him explore outside more and then feeding him at the nest bowl.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/c046f1c1.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/c3969780.jpg

rocgwp
06-14-2010, 02:23 PM
27 days old

Picco is ready for hack now. This weekend I have been letting him run around the back yard and CRing when he returned to the nest bowl or lure. He got to spend a lot of time outside. I also introduced him to my german wirehairs. No fear and hopefully the beginning of some great hunting relationships later this season since I have access to a new quail place.

I installed a backpack transmitter on him last night. I was really surprised at how easy it went. It took 3 of us to get a backpack on my other imprint coops without freaking him out. This time it only took me.

For the hack: I plan on feeding him up in the morning and then leaving him out all day. I will call him down in the evening (~5pm) and we will play some shaping/chasing games with bags or carcasses. Since I will be hacking him at home, myself or my wife will be checking on him throughout the day.

Here are some pics from this weekend
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/3b5b1da6.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/034ada1b.jpg

rocgwp
06-15-2010, 01:46 PM
28 Days Old

First day of hack...This morning I took Picco and his nest bowl outside to the hack tree. I cut up a quail and fed him. I checked the transmitter and then left him. He was out for about 2 hours before I left home. In that time I saw him venture out into the trees some, but not far. I talked to my wife and she said he was spending most of his time back in the bowl sleeping.

I'll admit it was nice going to work today not toting an imprint everywhere. No mutes or down to worry about in office. He is progressing great so far. I would expect to start hearing some noise while he is at hack, but we'll have to wait and see.

Here are some pics I snapped before I left this morning:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/f4e395a2.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/381ce706.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/3853b1f9.jpg

passagejack
06-15-2010, 03:27 PM
Jeff I really hope this works out well for you!! I'm looking forward to the day that I could do the same. If this works with a male Coops then I'm sure the rest of the Accips would take to it just fine.

rocgwp
06-16-2010, 06:51 PM
29 Days old

Day 2 of the hack

Picco went higher in the tree and explored more today. When I came home it took him a while to figure out how to get back down to the nest bowl. He ate part of his meal as rewards for plucking a wing on the lure ( pluck, CR, reward). The rest I worked on introducing the glove. I am treating as if I was teaching him touch. He looks at it or moves toward it and I CR and reward. Eventually I will CR and reward for standing on it, then I put my hand in it and go from there.

Here are pics:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/3052cd9d.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/c6e5a9e2.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/ad97f2c8.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/e091598d.jpg

gratefool1
06-16-2010, 10:20 PM
Flat out loving this thread! Keep it coming and thanks for sharing!
clapp

rocgwp
06-17-2010, 08:17 PM
30 days old

Day 3 of hack

Tonight was fun. I came home at 5pm and Picco had worked his way to the top of a tree. I took food to the nest bowl and began cutting it up. It took him an hour to finally figure out how to get down.

Once down, I let him pluck and CR'd the plucking. I then picked the nest bowl and brought him inside. I tethered him to a perch and set a glove on either side of him. I began shaping him moving to a glove. By the time we were done, he understand he could stand on a glove to get fed. Biting the glove got him nothing, but standing calmly on the glove got him a CR and food.

He now wants to be with me more as well. When I walk to the perch he hops over to me and wants to lay against me. He seems to have more 'personality' than my other coops as well.

I have to leave for an overnight trip tomorrow. I have another falconer that is going to feed him for me (using the cr). I won't be able to hack him so we have set up his mew with lots of branches for him to run around on. We are trying to simulate the hack as much as possible.

REYNALDO
06-18-2010, 08:51 AM
this thread has been really informative! great job. looking forward to more pics and progress reports:D

RyanVZ
06-18-2010, 11:36 AM
Jeff, do you think that you'll hood train this bird? And why or why not? Just curious. Thanks

rocgwp
06-18-2010, 02:29 PM
I do plan on hood training Picco. I will be more deliberate about it as he get hungrier and starts performing even more for rewards. I didn't hood train my other coops and it was fine. I figure that this whole process is an experiment, so why not try it. If he hoods, it will come in handy. If it doesn't work out...no big deal.

RyanVZ
06-18-2010, 03:13 PM
I do plan on hood training Picco. I will be more deliberate about it as he get hungrier and starts performing even more for rewards. I didn't hood train my other coops and it was fine. I figure that this whole process is an experiment, so why not try it. If he hoods, it will come in handy. If it doesn't work out...no big deal.

Good point about if it doesnt work out nothing lost. I've trained and flown a bunch of birds but never an imprint coop, so I'm doing it for the first time this year. I've been on the fence about hooding her. I also use a marker to train behaviors, but I'm planning on waiting til the bird is food motivated to start. (mostly because I'm lazy after training animals all day it's hard to go home and do more of it) I'll be following your thread to see what kind of headway you will get by having an early start and will probably be kicking myself a month from now ;)

Saluqi
06-18-2010, 03:19 PM
Hey Jeff,

I imprinted both of my goshawks using the same techniques that you are using now. With the first one I tried the typical method of hood training, I had the hood in the nest box and would put it on and take it off, and that worked. He hooded well up until some time in November and then it all fell apart. With the female, I took Steve Layman's advice and didn't even introduce the hood until around November, and then using OC I trained her to the hood and that worked really well with her. She was never as easy to hood as a falcon, but she did accept the hood and I could get it on her with a little trouble, but nothing traumatic.

moredtailboy
06-18-2010, 04:48 PM
would you exsplain the oc hooding method please I have kept good tabs on this tread and im interested to that would work.

Saluqi
06-18-2010, 06:29 PM
would you exsplain the oc hooding method please I have kept good tabs on this tread and im interested to that would work.

Hi Joe,

Search the archives for hooding at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OPC_Falconry/

kitana
06-18-2010, 08:38 PM
I am really keen to see the differences between your bird and Ryan's. In my (limited) experience with animals clicker trained from early on, they tend to be very well balanced in life, always knowing there is something they can do to obtain what they want instead of throwing a temper tantrum or shutting down. It's true of all clicker trained animals, but those who knew nothing but that are different usually.

Another thing I noticed with dogs, rats and chicken is that they always tend to revert to the very first few behaviors they learned when they don't know what to do. Training a very calm behavior as "default" has therefore become my routine and I would certainly do it with a hawk as highly-strung as a Coops!

Very nice thread, keep it going please!

RyanVZ
06-18-2010, 09:39 PM
I am really keen to see the differences between your bird and Ryan's. In my (limited) experience with animals clicker trained from early on, they tend to be very well balanced in life, always knowing there is something they can do to obtain what they want instead of throwing a temper tantrum or shutting down. It's true of all clicker trained animals, but those who knew nothing but that are different usually.


Can't say I totally agree with this. I've done a lot of work training many behaviors and a lot of training out aggression problems that others have developed and reinforced in birds over long periods of time including several eagles that had shown aggression for over 20 years. Within a short amount of time of marking non-aggressive and incompatible behaviors you can get rid of most if not all of the problems. There are times when animals can get into a mode where they are offering up everything they have ever learned and more which can be useful and also at times a setback. Animals always know there is something they can do to get what they want, we just have to capture or shape those behaviors so they fit with what we want. Temper tantrums and shutting down are anthropomorphic terms that really dont amount to any more than a behavior that needs to be modified. Imprints or not, they still have instincts that will aways play a role as well. Dogs, Rats, and Chickens are domesticated and instincts play a far lesser role in their lives.

These are some of my experiences that I have had. Having a mark for behaviors is a great tool and I am very interested to find out if starting the bird out from the get go or holding off will really make a difference in the end. I suspect it will not but I've never flown an imprint coop so I'm probably setting myself up for a major shock! Sorry for the hijack Jeff.

tampamatt
06-19-2010, 09:50 AM
Love this thread! Can't wait to see how this bird turns out. Great discussion on behavior as well.

kimmerar
06-19-2010, 10:19 AM
Hey Jeff,

I took Steve Layman's advice and didn't even introduce the hood until around November, and then using OC I trained her to the hood and that worked really well with her.

Paul - I'm curious why Steve picks this time. I'm guessing dispersal hormones (fear and aggression) are over by then. Are there problems if you try earlier?

Saluqi
06-19-2010, 10:40 AM
Paul - I'm curious why Steve picks this time. I'm guessing dispersal hormones (fear and aggression) are over by then. Are there problems if you try earlier?

Hi Kim,

Steve usually hacks his imprints so he doesn't even try hooding until he brings them in from the hack, so he starts earlier than I did. I think Steve believes that as branchers goshawks are easily traumatized, so rather than risk a negative learning experience it's better to wait until their brains have matured some. I waited with my female gos until November because I was lazy and didn't have much of a need to hood her.

kimmerar
06-19-2010, 11:13 AM
Thanks Paul. OK - makes sense. I'm curious if the chicks know what the click treat is about why not start it earlier. It would still need to be practiced during the hack though. Which could be problematic. The question is - do they really know what the click treat is about :). Picco sounds like he does. Can't wait to see the video.

I know 6wk old puppies (CCI puppies) can be taught to wait for a eat command before they eat from a bowl of food sitting in front of them. And I mean waiting for minutes with a sit involved. And this was recorded at 6 weeks. This was a show off thing someone did to show what the clicker can do. This was in the early 90's.

I think the clicker works great for more high strung animals. Hardest part is getting to the first step - hunger takes care of that. I believe fear is instinctive but also due to to boredom and the clicker can really help with that if used correctly.

My .02 - I have limited experience clicking with raptors. But there are lots that do so...... Jeff keep up the thread. Very interesting.

rocgwp
06-22-2010, 12:55 PM
35 days old

Day 8 of hack

Picco actually looks like a coopers hawk now. I have pics, but I have to download them from our camera and upload them to the computer. I went to a wedding over the weekend and had to leave Picco in the mew. I set the mew up with branches everywhere. He was able to go to varying heights and explore. It wasn't quite like hack, but it seems to have served it's purpose well. The falconer who fed for me encountered no problems.

He has been back outside for 2 days now. He is exploring more and more and venturing further away from the hack tree. I tracked him down about 300-400 yds away yesterday when I got home. By 8:30pm he was back at the hack tree ready to be fed. He has finally started to make some noise (as I expected). He has a soft peeping sound he makes when he gets hungry. I'm pretty sure that will get louder as things progress.

At this point he will come down to the lure with a quail wing on it and pluck to get me to feed him. It makes me laugh because he will look at the food I am holding in my hand and instead of coming after it, he will reach down to pluck as if saying "Feed me now!". If I skip a couple plucks, he will pluck hard and exaggerate it trying to get me to feed him. Sometimes if I am in a hurry, I jackpot him to speed up the process. If I do this, I let him eat a couple bites and then reach in and CR as I hand him some tidbits of of what he is eating. He will also stand on the glove for short durations unrestrained. I am CRing him looking away from me while on the glove. This morning I had fun playing some chase games with him. I would toss a quail wing and CR when he would chase it and grab it. He spent about 30 minutes chasing stuff around the yard. It ended when he flew after a mockingbird. Of course he didn't come anywhere near close. He landed in a tree and I figured that was a good time to end the session and go to work.

The next things I am focusing on over the next week are:

CRing him for returning to the glove
Putting bating on cue
Entering him on bagged game and playing more chase games
Continuing to CR calm behaviors

kitana
06-22-2010, 01:23 PM
How do you deliver the food, with your bare hand? Does he already start to grab the morsels with his feet, or does he still pick them up with his beak?

rocgwp
06-22-2010, 01:31 PM
I give him the tidbits with my bare hands or on tip of my gloved finger. I always make sure I am looking at him straight on with both eyes and have my face pretty close (like a parent). He then reaches out a takes it with his beak. He has never attempted to grab the food with his feet (yet).

rocgwp
06-23-2010, 02:20 PM
36 Days old - 341 grams

Day 9 of Hack

Finally decided to put Picco on the scale today. He is pretty close to the weight of my other tiercel coops at this same age.

I had an interesting moment with him last night. I called him down to a quail wing on the lure. It was obvious he was hungry and anxious to eat. He could see the tidbits I had for him in my hand. He reached down and plucked a feather off of the wing. I CRed and after the CR he mantled and reached for the tidbit (with his beak). He then immediately slicked back down and plucked another feather. I Cred and he mantled again after the CR as he reached for the tidbit again. After 3-4 tidbits, he no longer mantled, but stayed calm throughout the entire time. It was the first time I have seen him mantle or show any sign of behavior that he views me as a sibling. I was concerned at first, but after consulting Steve this morning, it appears that is normal and to be expected. I just need to progress and work through any behavior that would show or lead to aggression.

The neat part of the whole deal was seeing him switch between emotional states. Even though he could see the tidbits he knew he had to pluck to get them. He would pluck with all of his might and you could see the anxiousness built up in him anticipating the food. After he mantled, he then slicked back down and gave the complete appearance of a calm bird as he plucked again. Then all of that change when he heard the CR. Then he slicked back and went calm in an instant...

After letting him pluck the lure a little, I stepped him to the fist and we began working on putting bating on cue. We also spent some time with him sitting on the ground like an eyass being fed calmly and sitting on my open gloved hand like an eyass being fed calmly.

I took him inside for the evening. He was a little restless at first since he was tied down and wanted to find a high place to roost. After about 15 minutes, he settled down and didn't move much at all. When I would walk over to the perch he would scoot over and lean against me.

I'm really enjoying this bird so far...

rocgwp
06-24-2010, 11:49 PM
37 days - 341g

It was raining today so I didn't put Picco at hack. He spent the day inside on the perch. I spent the day rewarding him for calm behavior, sitting on the glove, etc...

He goes back to hack tomorrow...

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn74/rocgwp/7111d587.jpg

sevristh
06-25-2010, 11:06 AM
Was it raining REALLY hard? My experience with my gos was that he LOVED to be wet.

rocgwp
06-25-2010, 02:49 PM
It wasn't raining really hard, but there was potential of some thunderstorms later in the day. I could have put him out, but I figured why risk it with potential high winds and him getting blown to the next county.

38 days old - 348g

11 days of hack

He is back at hack today. He didn't eat alot this morning and he weighed 348g. Some of it may be that he didn't expend as much energy yesterday and it might be that he is beginning to absorb some of the blood from his feathers back in. Either way, he should be hungry this evening...

I am working to begin increasing his exercise rate. This morning I began to add another step in the chain, but since he wasn't very interested in food, it didn't go real well. (Nothing went wrong, he just wasn't interested). I am now building the chain leading up to entering and hunting. I have shaped sitting calmly on the glove and looking away from me. I am now transitioning to tossing a tidbit or tidbit on the lure as a reward for the CR from the fist. Once he gets it I can CR him with the lure and the CR returning to the fist and repeating. I am working toward restrained pursuits to build muscle and increase his focus on chasing prey items. Once this chain is established, I should be out hunting...

I also am phasing out his nest bowl now. I could keep it for longer and use it, but he comes down to the lure or fist and is tethered to a perch indoors in the evening. Last night he slept his first night in the giant hood. It was pretty non-eventful. My normal routine for summer hawking is fly early in the morning (before it gets really hot), come home and let the bird weather during the day, bring the bird inside during the evening for socialization, put the bird in the giant hood before I go to bed and have everything laid out to repeat the following day. He is not far from being ready for this routine...

rocgwp
06-26-2010, 10:32 AM
39 days old - 347g

12 days of hack

I was able to work on the chain I mentioned yesterday last night. He was really into playing games so we made some progress. When I got home I saw him fly across the road back to our house. By the time I walked in the front door he was in the hack tree already waiting for me to come outside. My daughter was playing in the back yard with some new toys she bought for our dogs. She tossed a rope into the air and the next thing I saw was Picco standing on it trying to pluck it.

This morning I focused primarily on CRing bating and hopefully moving toward putting it on cue. I pulled out the wing on a string to CR him chasing, but it was after he had about half a crop. He'll be more interested this evening.

So far he makes about 4 or 5 different sounds depending on the situation. None of them are the incessant screaming I expected. He is silent about 90% of the time and the other sounds appear to be more social behaviours.

rocgwp
06-27-2010, 12:01 AM
Well, it's gonna be a long night tonight. Picco is spending the night out. He is only about 20 yards from my back door, but he either caught something today or stumbled across a nest. He had no interest in eating at all and had a crop on him...

We will see how motivated he is in the morning...

rocgwp
06-27-2010, 08:34 AM
I have now climbed a tree twice for this bird. Once to take him from the nest and today to recover his body.

I located Picco's signal this morning. It was odd that he wasn't hungry or responding. I couldn't see him and after a while I knew something was wrong. I climbed the tree and found him laying near the top. He was about 20ft from a transformer. In examining him, it appears he was electrocuted sometime last night or this morning.

To this point, this had become my preferred method of imprinting...


This will be the end of this thread...

FredFogg
06-27-2010, 08:42 AM
Oh man, Jeff, that sucks! I was looking forward to seeing how he turned out. The dangers of a hack versus the benifits, it is a tough one! Maybe continue this by pulling a brancher?

kitana
06-27-2010, 09:09 AM
Jeff that's terrible, I can't believe this happened. I know we risk loosing our birds at each outing, but not like this before he was ever flown by you.

frootdog
06-27-2010, 09:13 AM
Man that sucks. Sorry to hear it Jeff.

Mike O
06-27-2010, 09:27 AM
I'm so sorry to hear about this.

everetkhorton
06-27-2010, 10:56 AM
Jeff:
Sorry to hear of your loss!.

Dirthawking
06-27-2010, 12:05 PM
Dude that sucks! Sorry to hear it. I was looking forward to your thread.

goshawks00
06-27-2010, 12:26 PM
Jeff, My condolences...It would seem with all the technologies that are available today, that someone could come up with a bullet proof device that could be safely installed to prevent this type of accident from happening... I know when we moved into our current house I had under ground power installed at least 500 ft from the house and all wires run underground from there also... Yea it cost a bit but < I've never regretted it
Bummer!!! sorry dude...
Alsos raises another one on those 'what would you like NAFA to do for you issues. It would seem that with private ownership, the cost of protection would be a lot cheaper than litigation.
.02

touyang
06-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Sorry to hear about your coops, Jeff. I think there should be a requirement for all new power lines be buried. Fortunately, most of my township's distribution lines are underground, only the transmission lines are above ground because it would be too cost prohibitive to bury all those. So there are virtually no transformers around me.

PeteJ
06-27-2010, 01:10 PM
Sorry to hear about your coops, Jeff. I think there should be a requirement for all new power lines be buried. Fortunately, most of my township's distribution lines are underground, only the transmission lines are above ground because it would be too cost prohibitive to bury all those. So there are virtually no transformers around me.
Don't be lulled into a false sense of security just because there are no transformers around. I've seen birds electrocuted on poles with just an insulator on top.
Sorry about the Coop Jeff.

touyang
06-27-2010, 01:20 PM
Good point, Pete. My concerns would be when I'm out hunting as my area don't have any above ground utilities.

PeteJ
06-27-2010, 02:11 PM
I guess what I'm trying to get across to any newbies out there is that the presence of poles is generally enough for me to look elsewhere for a safer place to fly...transformers or not.

goshawks00
06-27-2010, 02:37 PM
I agree, I can remember hawking with a guy many years my elder in falconry and him stopping at a spot to hawk... I quickly pointed out several tranformers and at last on high tension line... He still wanted to hawk as he told me it had unbelieveable game there... I passed and left him there... Several weeks later he told me he lost his hawk theee to power lines... old saying" To soon old to late smart"
Barry

SOF
06-27-2010, 03:31 PM
Jeff,

I am a fellow clicker trainer, hater of starlings and lover of imprinting. I've been following this thread since Picco was about 2 weeks old. This incident has come as a shock to me, I am gutted for you... I can't imagine loosing my imprint to that. I'll be taking extra precautions when it comes to power lines now.
I am so sorry for your loss.

moredtailboy
06-28-2010, 07:10 AM
I am very sorry to hear about your loss I was hoping to be able to compare our two coops I hope things go well for the rest of your season.

REYNALDO
06-28-2010, 11:09 AM
im so sorry to hear that!!!

Robin
08-15-2010, 05:20 PM
Just read this post...you did great Jeff...cant help things like this from happening. I hope you will give it another go...it was very instructive.

sorry for your loss

Robin
Netherlands