The Old and the New

[MrBill]

In his most recent Director's Report, Ralph Rogers basically said that in days gone bye NAFA members were interested in what they could do for falconry, while many of todays members are more interested in what NAFA can do for them. Leaving personalities out of it, do you feel that Ralph has a valid point, or not? I am not saying I agree with Ralph, but frankly, in the short time I have been part of this forum, I have read a number of comments along the line, "NAFA does not represent my interests, " or "What do I get for my dues besides a periodicals?" etc.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[goshawks00]

I think there is a bunch of both within NAFA...There is quite a history of NAFA not listening to it's members... There is also quite a few members that think paying dues is enough, like buying insurance in case of some unforeseen calamity..

[MrBill]

Barry,

I agree with you about NAFA's history of not listening to its members, but, that's been discussed ad naseum, so we had probably better let that go for the purposes of this thread. I would like to address your second point--dues equating to insurance.

People join most national "sporting" organizations to associate with people who have similar interests that they might feel passionate about. But, in our case we have a history of defending and protecting our sport, so you are right, Barry--joining NAFA for many is like paying insurance. Frankly, I view NAFA's roll as a national watchdog organization as important. But, again, Ralph was suggesting that members nowadays are more interested in what's in it for them personally, rather than focusing on the big picture (NAFA's roll in helping to ensure the future of falconry).

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[jfseaman]

Barry,

I agree with you about NAFA's history of not listening to its members, but, that's been discussed ad naseum, so we had probably better let that go for the purposes of this thread. I would like to address your second point--dues equating to insurance.

People join most national "sporting" organizations to associate with people who have similar interests that they might feel passionate about. But, in our case we have a history of defending and protecting our sport, so you are right, Barry--joining NAFA for many is like paying insurance. Frankly, I view NAFA's roll as a national watchdog organization as important. But, again, Ralph was suggesting that members nowadays are more interested in what's in it for them personally, rather than focusing on the big picture (NAFA's roll in helping to ensure the future of falconry).

Bill Boni
Norman, OKWell said Bill.

At the moment, with 43 states needing to ratify new regulations though, NAFA can and is going far beyond being 'insurance'.

[outhawkn]

I do believe that falconers used to feel like "what can I do to help". But its not just NAFA that suffers. The younger generation has a generally lack of concern for others and seem to be only intersted in themselves.......

[MrBill]

Fred,

I'm in the dark in terms of what NAFA is doing to help the states ratify new regulations, but, again the answer to this question would take the conversation beyond the topic of the thread (I think); so, if you could e-mail me at falconer@cox.net and tell me what NAFA is doing, I would appreciate it.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[MrBill]

Bill,

When you say, "younger generation," how young are we talking about? I've found that the vast majority of the NAFA membership has been complacent over the years, regardless of age. As I've said before, up until about 10-15 years ago, most folks were paying their dues in order to receive the HC and Journal. We were all starved for relative information about contemporary falconry, but, that's no longer the case. So falconers who have come on the scene during this period are questioning whether they should be a NAFA member (IMO). Perhaps this is what Ralph is talking about.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[outhawkn]

Bill,

When you say, "younger generation," how young are we talking about? I've found that the vast majority of the NAFA membership has been complacent over the years, regardless of age. As I've said before, up until about 10-15 years ago, most folks were paying their dues in order to receive the HC and Journal. We were all starved for relative information about contemporary falconry, but, that's no longer the case. So falconers who have come on the scene during this period are questioning whether they should be a NAFA member (IMO). Perhaps this is what Ralph is talking about.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

Hi Blill

After reading your post and giving it some more thought, I think it may be that we ALL are getting complacent/comfortable? With what we have. And I think a lot of it does have to do with new falconers ( without regaurd as to age) come into falconry and think it has ALWAYS been like it is now. They dont realize the struggles/sacrafices that many falconers have endured to get where we are now. Thats why I think its important for sponsors to teach not only falconry but the history that goes along with it.....
I bet if you asked some of the new falconers, say with 5 years or less under their belt. What Operation Falcon was all about they couldnt tell you without looking in to it. JMO

[Dirthawking]

I bet if you asked some of the new falconers, say with 5 years or less under their belt. What Operation Falcon was all about they couldnt tell you without looking in to it. JMO


I bet if you ask around, you will find falconers that have been around for 10 plus years that can't tell you what it was about!

[outhawkn]

I bet if you ask around, you will find falconers that have been around for 10 plus years that can't tell you what it was about!

I wouldnt doubt it.....:D

[RyanVZ]

The NAFA TAC committee is offering help to states with the new regs. I think that they have to ask for it though.

[sharptail]

In his most recent Director's Report, Ralph Rogers basically said that in days gone bye NAFA members were interested in what they could do for falconry, while many of todays members are more interested in what NAFA can do for them. Leaving personalities out of it, do you feel that Ralph has a valid point, or not? I am not saying I agree with Ralph, but frankly, in the short time I have been part of this forum, I have read a number of comments along the line, "NAFA does not represent my interests, " or "What do I get for my dues besides a periodicals?" etc.

Bill Boni
Norman, OKAn old friend(Mark P., from the Seattle area) tried to donate his time to get a decent NAFA website up and going, some 20 years ago, and was shunned by the NAFA board.

Ask not what NAFA can do for you, but what YOU CAN DO FOR NAFA....Oh Please! There must be a new JFK movie out

[MrBill]

Jeff writes:

"An old friend(Mark P., from the Seattle area) tried to donate his time to get a decent NAFA website up and going, some 20 years ago, and was shunned by the NAFA board.

Ask not what NAFA can do for you, but what YOU CAN DO FOR NAFA....Oh Please! There must be a new JFK movie out"

Jeff, first of all I don't think most folks would argue with the fact that NAFA has been behind the power curve when it comes to their presence on the web, but that is not what this discussion is about.

Also, it's also not about what falconers can do for NAFA. Again, Ralph's comment (and what this thread is about) was that NAFA members in days gone bye were interested in what they could do "for falconry" (not NAFA) and now they seem to be more interested in what NAFA can do for them (personally).

I think you may have missed the point a bit.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[FredFogg]

An old friend(Mark P., from the Seattle area) tried to donate his time to get a decent NAFA website up and going, some 20 years ago, and was shunned by the NAFA board.

Ask not what NAFA can do for you, but what YOU CAN DO FOR NAFA....Oh Please! There must be a new JFK movie out

Get over it Jeff, that was 20 years ago! Geeez! Time to let things go!

[frootdog]

Get over it Jeff, that was 20 years ago! Geeez! Time to let things go!
amennn If nothing else this PROVES that NAFA is changing for the better.

[JRedig]

I do believe that falconers used to feel like "what can I do to help". But its not just NAFA that suffers. The younger generation has a generally lack of concern for others and seem to be only intersted in themselves.......

Being a part of that/a younger generation, I tend to agree with your observation. I can't stand that and hate being stereotyped into it by my age. I ask that you have hope for some of us! :)

I offer an observation in return though, do you really think that's any different from past generations? Typically younger people are more inward because of where they are at in life. It's a product of society much of the time. It's only exacerbated by technology/text/myspace/twitter. That and it's more visible to older generations as they can now be connected on the same level which isn't something that occurred in the past.

Something tells me for for much of eternity, older generations will always think this of younger generations.

[MrBill]

Jeff,

I think you have a real good point--the "older generation" was young at one time, and I can tell you that a healthy number (not all) of younger falconers during the 60's and 70's, in California, during the era of "power to the people" and "screw authority," did more harm than good for falconry, at least in that state. Now, of course, these folks (those that are still around) have grown up, raised families, retired (those that can) and have a whole different outlook on falconry . . . . age has a way of doing this :-)

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[outhawkn]

Being a part of that/a younger generation, I tend to agree with your observation. I can't stand that and hate being stereotyped into it by my age. I ask that you have hope for some of us! :)

I offer an observation in return though, do you really think that's any different from past generations? Typically younger people are more inward because of where they are at in life. It's a product of society much of the time. It's only exacerbated by technology/text/myspace/twitter. That and it's more visible to older generations as they can now be connected on the same level which isn't something that occurred in the past.

Something tells me for for much of eternity, older generations will always think this of younger generations.

Hi Jeff

I do have hope.....so much hope in fact that if you were to read a good portion of my past posts on NAFA, I was one of those bashers and a non-member. AND then a miracle occurd, and I re-joined..toungeout

And i agree with your observation that the older generation generally feels that the younger generation is taking us to hell in a hand basket. :D

All that being said....I stopped complaining and am lending a hand as best I can....we'll see.......crazyy:D

[JRedig]

I actually had noticed that Bill, glad to see it. clapp

[outhawkn]

I actually had noticed that Bill, glad to see it. clapp

Lets NOT pat me on the back yet....I could relapse........;):D

[Ron Clarke]

Being a part of that/a younger generation, I tend to agree with your observation. I can't stand that and hate being stereotyped into it by my age. I ask that you have hope for some of us! :)

I offer an observation in return though, do you really think that's any different from past generations? Typically younger people are more inward because of where they are at in life. It's a product of society much of the time. It's only exacerbated by technology/text/myspace/twitter. That and it's more visible to older generations as they can now be connected on the same level which isn't something that occurred in the past.

Something tells me for for much of eternity, older generations will always think this of younger generations.

You are right on the mark, Jeff. We graybeards have been fretting about the upcoming generations for millennia.

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Plato wrote that.

[Flatwater Falconer]

Focusing on the issues of today - (in no particular order)


anti-hunting groups efforts to eradicate sports
passage peregrine take adjustments
problems individual falconers have in dealing with local government
improving habitat for prey species - environmental issues
reducing/simplifying existing laws
states' transition to in-house falconry programs
Ought to keep us busy wouldn't you think? Using ancient history of our Association to not join, especially if you weren't even a falconer when the alleged events occured, is to me, a cop-out.

Try for one day to keep focused on what is actually going on TODAY and let the past be the past. It gets tiresome reading the comments bashing this Association. So one-sided as well because for every problem remembered there are probably 50 good things that somehow are forgotten and not mentioned.

So if my partial list above has items which interest you as a falconer, then I invite you to join the North American Falconers Association and apply your energy to one or more of these items.

Cheers!

[dirthawker2004]

here is one thing that kind of ticks me off about NAFA. at the time that its time for me to renew my dues is usually a tight $ time for me so when it comes to a time that $ loosens up a bit and I can renew my membership they want to charge me $10.00 extra to be a member. its more money for less of a yr. I dont mind just taking the partial yr but I will me dambed if I am going to pay extra for the partial yr.

[Flatwater Falconer]

here is one thing that kind of ticks me off about NAFA. at the time that its time for me to renew my dues is usually a tight $ time for me so when it comes to a time that $ loosens up a bit and I can renew my membership they want to charge me $10.00 extra to be a member. its more money for less of a yr. I dont mind just taking the partial yr but I will me dambed if I am going to pay extra for the partial yr.

That's an easy fix -
Why not renew a few months early? It's going to count for the next year anyhow so make it easy on yourself and send your dues ahead of time rather than wait.

The late fee is for the extra postage and handling to get your printed matter sent out to you. When they don't go bulk rate from the print shop that means someone has to purchase mailers and higher rate postage and mail the items to you custom. They can't go bulk rate at that point because it's one or two items rather than 1600 items.

[dirthawker2004]

what would they be mailing me. if I join late I am late I dont need the back journals and all I never really read them any way. there are very few good aticals in them any way. I guess the AFC wants my money more they will take it any time I want to give it to them.

[sharptail]

Greetings Jason!
Will we be seeing you at the AFC meet in El Dorado this season? There is no registration fee and we will be meeting at the Best Western.

[FredFogg]

here is one thing that kind of ticks me off about NAFA. at the time that its time for me to renew my dues is usually a tight $ time for me so when it comes to a time that $ loosens up a bit and I can renew my membership they want to charge me $10.00 extra to be a member. its more money for less of a yr. I dont mind just taking the partial yr but I will me dambed if I am going to pay extra for the partial yr.


Jason, money is tight for everyone, but just like anything else in life, you have to plan ahead. If you have dues coming up at a certain time of the year, save for it. Why is NAFA supposed to conform their dues period just to suit you. They can't do it for everyone. They have a certain date that dues are due, pretty simple. Plan ahead!

It amazes me sometimes of the complaints folks have with NAFA, sorry, not just ragging on you Jason. But try volunteering for something in NAFA and see how much work it takes to do things, then you will have a different perspective.

[falcon56]

Amen, Fred. Too many in the ranks, whether NAFA members or not, forget ALL the work NAFA has done over the years to promote and further the sport. We wouldn't be where we are today without the tireless volunteers that spend their own money, sacrifice their personal time away from family and days in the field to keep ahead of all the issues falconry entails, from legal problems, antis, dissention etc. You may not always agree with what is done or how it's being done, but it is being done by someone that gives a damn. I for one am convinced that the falconry I practice today would not be what it is without NAFA. I well remember having legal falconry restricted to the short established hunting seasons shared with the gun hunters, outside those predetermined dates, we were always looking over our shoulders and scrambling. Where do these complainers think the 7 month and longer seasons came from, the access to wild peregrines? NAFA was instrumental on so many fronts that were and still are crucial to the survival of falconry as we see it today. I challenge anyone to say the same for any other group. My money stays with NAFA, whether or not I always agree with how or why things are done.

[Hawkmom]

Don't bash NAFA, they have done a tremendous amount for the preservation of falconry in the US. When the MTBA was passed. NAFA put together the current system of licensing and regulations that kept falconry legal in the US. Otherwise, it would have been outlawed nationwide. We got the take of peregrines back. Something I thought may NEVER happen in my lifetime.

Antis are a real threat. We have to be ever watchful of them. They are sneaking in the administration of the Game Depts. And unfortunately, most antis are FEMALE. Non-hunting females, who have NO CLUE or ignore the science in the studies of the natural cycles of this planet, despite some having a biology background. The hook and bullet guys are our best allies. They understand. Steve Bodio's article in the 1987 American Hunter Magazine explains it best.

[Hawkmom]

Here is the link to the article I just posted in one of my blogs: www.fieldsportsforever.blogspot.com

[sharptail]

Amen, Fred. Too many in the ranks, whether NAFA members or not, forget ALL the work NAFA has done over the years to promote and further the sport. We wouldn't be where we are today without the tireless volunteers that spend their own money, sacrifice their personal time away from family and days in the field to keep ahead of all the issues falconry entails, from legal problems, antis, dissention etc. You may not always agree with what is done or how it's being done, but it is being done by someone that gives a damn. I for one am convinced that the falconry I practice today would not be what it is without NAFA. I well remember having legal falconry restricted to the short established hunting seasons shared with the gun hunters, outside those predetermined dates, we were always looking over our shoulders and scrambling. Where do these complainers think the 7 month and longer seasons came from, the access to wild peregrines? NAFA was instrumental on so many fronts that were and still are crucial to the survival of falconry as we see it today. I challenge anyone to say the same for any other group. My money stays with NAFA, whether or not I always agree with how or why things are done.Well said Ray! Some of us on here put our money into more than one national (or International) orginization, sometime one is just not enough.

[chamokane]

Well said Ray! Some of us on here put our money into more than one national (or International) orginization, sometime one is just not enough.

Good point, Jeff. Each organization is working on it's own vision of what is good for falconry. Because each works at a slightly different tangent, sometimes more is accomplished than if there was only one entity.

The only way an organization is going to be completely aligned with any one individual's ideas is for that individual to be the whole membership, but that wouldn't be much fun, and it would be way too much work.:D

[chamokane]

In his most recent Director's Report, Ralph Rogers basically said that in days gone bye NAFA members were interested in what they could do for falconry, while many of todays members are more interested in what NAFA can do for them. Leaving personalities out of it, do you feel that Ralph has a valid point, or not? I am not saying I agree with Ralph, but frankly, in the short time I have been part of this forum, I have read a number of comments along the line, "NAFA does not represent my interests, " or "What do I get for my dues besides a periodicals?" etc.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

Well, I think NAFA members should be interested in what NAFA can do for them, if by that they mean, what can NAFA do to keep falconry good. What other reason is there for NAFA to exist? Any organization can get headed the wrong way, it's up to the membership to keep it on the right path.

There's not room for everyone to to work within NAFA, but still, everyone can do something for falconry. In addition to holding positions in state clubs, we can all help falconry by how we present ouselves to the general public. Like it or not, we are visible and people do form opinions. If we practice falconry in an ethical manner, deal with the public in a friendly, courteous, and informative manner, give presentations at libraries, schools, bird watcher groups, etc. when asked, we are doing something for falconry. Not everyone can be a mover and a shaker, but we can all be good citizens of the falconry community. In my state, we lost hound hunting because the antis really got behind a ballet initiative, and it seemed like many houndsmen had gone out of their way to antagonize the public. We could lose falconry the same way. Most people vote on something like that on an emotional basis; we can all try to give folks a good impression of falconry and falconers.

[sharptail]

It is great to see you back on Nafex Dave!!! I hope to read more of you hawking adventures soon!

[borderhawk]

You are right on the mark, Jeff. We graybeards have been fretting about the upcoming generations for millennia.

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Plato wrote that.

Excellent quote!

Thing is... the politics has been in the hands of the "elders" of the village or clan since the beginning of humanity. The younger generation is working on struttin' their stuff to prove their procreational value and at the same time developing their worth as a strong link in the chain leading them to become that seasoned elder that now has the experience and wisdom to make good political decisions. It's the natural course of things.


I joined Nafa once when I went to the Amarillo meet, and do regret letting it lapse after that. Here in Arizona, our G&F has flat out told us they have no budget to put any effort into our adoption of the new regs, and that there's nothing we can do about it but wait. They're predicting it will be at least another couple years. Now, if Nafa can do something about that, I'm sure they'd gain alot more members in this state!

[chamokane]

It is great to see you back on Nafex Dave!!! I hope to read more of you hawking adventures soon!

Thanks, Jeff. I look forward to reading about your grouse hawking.

[dirthawker2004]

fred while I do agree that NAFA does good things. I volinteer allot to the falconry comunity of my own time and money. I am on the educational commity for AZ as well as the AP coordinator. my dues run over 1K a yr for organizations to keep hunting alive and well. that doesnt count licesing and all. I am at 80% of the educational events threw out the state every yr and try to show my commitment to the sport threw those activities. I am a member of so many hunting orgs. that it would be a waste of time to list them all. I do like NAFA but think that the extra fee is BS if I join late I dont get the back stuff for the yr it should be that simple. no other org that I am a part of has that in place. not to mention all the other volinteering I do for other hunting and shooting orgs. besides that the dues and the meet is at that time that I am trying to save every penny I have for Xmas and its during thanks giving when I have to be with the family.

I see the point of save up for the dues over that time. but I live my life a day at a time owning my own business and barly get by. I have to watch every dollar that comes in and goes out. now how many spend over 1K in dues per yr and volinteer as much as I do. I would doubt that it would be even close to 10%.

not trying to flame here just saying that the extra fee is kind of BS for someone that just wants to show their monitary sopport to the org. but doesnt want to be penalized for it. any one wants my life and my troubles are welcome to it.

[wyodjm]

Excellent quote!

Thing is... the politics has been in the hands of the "elders" of the village or clan since the beginning of humanity. The younger generation is working on struttin' their stuff to prove their procreational value and at the same time developing their worth as a strong link in the chain leading them to become that seasoned elder that now has the experience and wisdom to make good political decisions. It's the natural course of things.


I joined Nafa once when I went to the Amarillo meet, and do regret letting it lapse after that. Here in Arizona, our G&F has flat out told us they have no budget to put any effort into our adoption of the new regs, and that there's nothing we can do about it but wait. They're predicting it will be at least another couple years. Now, if Nafa can do something about that, I'm sure they'd gain alot more members in this state!

Wyoming seems to be in the same boat also, although perhaps for different reasons. Wyoming has been fighting the feds for decades over wolves and grizzlies with unfunded mandates. That is, we pay the management costs for a federally listed threatened or endangered species and any conflicts they cause, and the feds contribute very little, if anything.

I think Wyoming feels as though the adoption of the new falconry regulations and their ultimate administration by the state is just another example of the feds dumping their management responsibilities over to the state. As it appears right now, Wyoming doesn’t seem to be in any great hurry to adopt the federal regs.

There is also another sensitive issue going on. Wyoming wants the feds to iron out the problems associated with the trapping of eagles out of the wild in depredation areas. Right now, Wyoming is the only place in the country to trap an eagle in a depredation area. Wyoming has basically said that if eagles are going to be included in the federal falconry regs and Wyoming is going to adopt those regs, the feds better get their act together.

Wyoming is very pro falconry, and pro nonresident take. It has, however, had a very shaky relationship with the feds and the management authority of federally protected wildlife. Wyoming feels as though the feds should lead, follow, or get out of the way.

I have sometimes wondered if we’ll see some states where the practice of falconry will be illegal because they either won’t or can’t administer the federal regulations. What then?

[frootdog]

I have sometimes wondered if we’ll see some states where the practice of falconry will be illegal because they either won’t or can’t administer the federal regulations. What then?

Exactly why the feds were a bit suprised that we wanted them out of the process. They have stated that if said state elects NOT to comply with or adopt the new regs by the deadline then they will NOT step in.

[Flatwater Falconer]

Amen, Fred. Too many in the ranks, whether NAFA members or not, forget ALL the work NAFA has done over the years to promote and further the sport. We wouldn't be where we are today without the tireless volunteers that spend their own money, sacrifice their personal time away from family and days in the field to keep ahead of all the issues falconry entails, from legal problems, antis, dissention etc. You may not always agree with what is done or how it's being done, but it is being done by someone that gives a damn. I for one am convinced that the falconry I practice today would not be what it is without NAFA. I well remember having legal falconry restricted to the short established hunting seasons shared with the gun hunters, outside those predetermined dates, we were always looking over our shoulders and scrambling. Where do these complainers think the 7 month and longer seasons came from, the access to wild peregrines? NAFA was instrumental on so many fronts that were and still are crucial to the survival of falconry as we see it today. I challenge anyone to say the same for any other group. My money stays with NAFA, whether or not I always agree with how or why things are done.

Amen Ray - It's good to hear support occasionally! With new apprentices and others joining our ranks all the time how are they to learn our history if it isn't reiterated by one such as yourself? Thanks for writing your post.

Cheers,

[Hunter45]

I've read all the posts on this thread and find it represents much of what I hear from a variety of people, plus and minus. I'll give you my summary take on the "facts of life" for falconry.

1. In these internet connected days and a zillion cable channels, we will never practice falconry unnoticed again.

2. Falconers come from every race, religion, from left of Lenin to right of Atilla the Hun, from paupers to princes, men, women, kids, single, married, divorced, widowed, young to old, straight, gay, drop-outs to Ph.ds, politically involved to never vote, city folk, country folk, etc! TRANSLATION: Of course we have difficulty getting along and cooperating - we often have little in common EXCEPT falconry. So we'd best realize THAT is the basis for our fellowship and working together. We work TOGETHER or we "die" separately!

3. U.S. falconers are .00145% of the population! Politically we are like gnats on the butt of a very large elephant.

4. The anti-hunting groups have several THOUSAND times as many members and/or followers and war chests to match.

5. Fish & Game management and field personnel are coming more and more from people who lack a background OR an interest in the field sports. That never hunted in their life biologist may some day run your F & G department. Furthermore, their budgets are getting whacked and so maybe they're looking at killing off any program that's "more trouble than it's worth". Some states have less than 20 falconers!

6. A growing population, more intensive land use, "green" technology that ISN'T wildlife or field sport friendly (ethanol and wind farms come to mind), landowners who more and more fear litigation, etc. are all problems BEYOND our control that, nonetheless, affect us.

All of this should be viewed as a TSUNAMI rising beyond the horizon that one sunny fall day could wipe us from the historical landscape if we don't work TOGETHER to prepare for the absolute CERTAINTY we WILL face such a potential disaster.

My focus as a NAFA DAL is to foster cooperation, innovation, and excellence in preserving, maintaining, and practicing falconry. After the terrible tragedy I lived through this past year, I have great love and respect for the falconry community that came together and helped pull me though it, but as your NAFA DAL I have zip, zero, nada patience for whiners, complainers, or slackers who don't want to be part of the solution to our problems.

We have such diverse and excellent talents and skills, combined with our passion for the sport and birds of prey, that we DO have the ability to face down our adversaries. But this is ONLY true if we set aside the piddly things we fuss over and focus on having a unified, organized, and focused falconry community.

Thanks for hearing me out on this. :D

[hawkerev]

I've read all the posts on this thread and find it represents much of what I hear from a variety of people, plus and minus. I'll give you my summary take on the "facts of life" for falconry.

1. In these internet connected days and a zillion cable channels, we will never practice falconry unnoticed again.

2. Falconers come from every race, religion, from left of Lenin to right of Atilla the Hun, from paupers to princes, men, women, kids, single, married, divorced, widowed, young to old, straight, gay, drop-outs to Ph.ds, politically involved to never vote, city folk, country folk, etc! TRANSLATION: Of course we have difficulty getting along and cooperating - we often have little in common EXCEPT falconry. So we'd best realize THAT is the basis for our fellowship and working together. We work TOGETHER or we "die" separately!

3. U.S. falconers are .00145% of the population! Politically we are like gnats on the butt of a very large elephant.

4. The anti-hunting groups have several THOUSAND times as many members and/or followers and war chests to match.

5. Fish & Game management and field personnel are coming more and more from people who lack a background OR an interest in the field sports. That never hunted in their life biologist may some day run your F & G department. Furthermore, their budgets are getting whacked and so maybe they're looking at killing off any program that's "more trouble than it's worth". Some states have less than 20 falconers!

6. A growing population, more intensive land use, "green" technology that ISN'T wildlife or field sport friendly (ethanol and wind farms come to mind), landowners who more and more fear litigation, etc. are all problems BEYOND our control that, nonetheless, affect us.

All of this should be viewed as a TSUNAMI rising beyond the horizon that one sunny fall day could wipe us from the historical landscape if we don't work TOGETHER to prepare for the absolute CERTAINTY we WILL face such a potential disaster.

My focus as a NAFA DAL is to foster cooperation, innovation, and excellence in preserving, maintaining, and practicing falconry. After the terrible tragedy I lived through this past year, I have great love and respect for the falconry community that came together and helped pull me though it, but as your NAFA DAL I have zip, zero, nada patience for whiners, complainers, or slackers who don't want to be part of the solution to our problems.

We have such diverse and excellent talents and skills, combined with our passion for the sport and birds of prey, that we DO have the ability to face down our adversaries. But this is ONLY true if we set aside the piddly things we fuss over and focus on having a unified, organized, and focused falconry community.

Thanks for hearing me out on this. :D

clappclappclappclapp X 1000%

Thanks Greg for all your dedication and work !

I know personally, one person that is a NAFA board member, and I know 1st hand his extrema dedication to our way of life. I also know from this board several others from their post that are as dedicated. Least I can do is pay my paltry(compared to other falconry expenses) NAFA dues happily :D!

[Hunter45]

clappclappclappclapp X 1000%

Thanks Greg for all your dedication and work !

I know personally, one person that is a NAFA board member, and I know 1st hand his extrema dedication to our way of life. I also know from this board several others from their post that are as dedicated. Least I can do is pay my paltry(compared to other falconry expenses) NAFA dues happily :D!

Brent, that's a great way to look at it. I don't think many people realize what service in ANY organization takes. There's always more to the job than anyone tells you when you're running for a position. LOL! I have yet to see this Board approach any agenda or ongoing topic in a less than serious and thoughtful manner.

Do we always have all the answers right away? No, but there is a concerted effort to get the information or do the deeds necessary to get them, make a good decision, and take appropriate action. Most importantly, I've never seen anyone with this Board/Officers take a stance or promote something for their personal gain or ego.

We have the balance, talent, experience, and dedication to both "get us where we want/need to go" AND keep us from diving into something too soon or perhaps not at all. So, when we're not moving as fast as people might like on something, there's probably a good reason.

This Board/Officers enjoys getting sincere, thoughtful input from the Members. They often are a great counterpoise to our own facts and mindset, and may even bring to our attention a topic we aren't familiar with or are unaware of its importance. Keep 'em coming!

[dirthawker2004]

greg as I said NAFA does great work and it is all part of the volintear of the board and I know how much it takes to do that. I also comend them for that. but being an officer in 5 orgs right now I still dont see the point in the $10.00 extra charge that no other org. does. this is really the only issue that I have with them. I got behind on my dues 1 yr and have to pay more for it, do you need the money to help the fight for our rights as falconers or not. I have been a part of politics all my life between my grandfather, father, and all the clubs that we have all been in. so I can look threw most of the lil stuff pretty quick. but there has been the big push by NAFA to regain membership. this is just one thing that makes getting your members back a harder pill to swallow. If I am wronge feel free to tell me to bugger off but just giving my 2 cents. I even still have NAFA posted on my website to try to help them out, but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I even asked the pres and his answer is (thats just the way we have always done it and that the dues would be going up next yr. join if you want or dont) are you wanting money to pay laywers and do the stuff that needs to be done or not.

sorry for any spelling my spell check is down right now.

[Hunter45]

greg as I said NAFA does great work and it is all part of the volintear of the board and I know how much it takes to do that. I also comend them for that. but being an officer in 5 orgs right now I still dont see the point in the $10.00 extra charge that no other org. does. this is really the only issue that I have with them. I got behind on my dues 1 yr and have to pay more for it, do you need the money to help the fight for our rights as falconers or not. I have been a part of politics all my life between my grandfather, father, and all the clubs that we have all been in. so I can look threw most of the lil stuff pretty quick. but there has been the big push by NAFA to regain membership. this is just one thing that makes getting your members back a harder pill to swallow. If I am wronge feel free to tell me to bugger off but just giving my 2 cents. I even still have NAFA posted on my website to try to help them out, but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I even asked the pres and his answer is (thats just the way we have always done it and that the dues would be going up next yr. join if you want or dont) are you wanting money to pay laywers and do the stuff that needs to be done or not.

sorry for any spelling my spell check is down right now.

. . . and I'll put my thinking cap on for some option(s) that address(es) BOTH sides of this issue. And I DO appreciate your support of NAFA and polite patience with our quirks. I'll be back to you on this issue after the Meet.

[dirthawker2004]

thankyou for considering my thoughts. I just thought it needed to be brought up and the pres didnt give me a good answer. I did try to word it in a inquisitive way to not sound like a flame but got a bad response. please let me know how it comes out so that I can once agian be part of the org. I dont mind paying my dues but as everyone knows $ is short and you need to be able to spread it out when you can.

thanks Jason

[FredFogg]

fred while I do agree that NAFA does good things. I volinteer allot to the falconry comunity of my own time and money. I am on the educational commity for AZ as well as the AP coordinator. my dues run over 1K a yr for organizations to keep hunting alive and well. that doesnt count licesing and all. I am at 80% of the educational events threw out the state every yr and try to show my commitment to the sport threw those activities. I am a member of so many hunting orgs. that it would be a waste of time to list them all. I do like NAFA but think that the extra fee is BS if I join late I dont get the back stuff for the yr it should be that simple. no other org that I am a part of has that in place. not to mention all the other volinteering I do for other hunting and shooting orgs. besides that the dues and the meet is at that time that I am trying to save every penny I have for Xmas and its during thanks giving when I have to be with the family.

I see the point of save up for the dues over that time. but I live my life a day at a time owning my own business and barly get by. I have to watch every dollar that comes in and goes out. now how many spend over 1K in dues per yr and volinteer as much as I do. I would doubt that it would be even close to 10%.

not trying to flame here just saying that the extra fee is kind of BS for someone that just wants to show their monitary sopport to the org. but doesnt want to be penalized for it. any one wants my life and my troubles are welcome to it.

Jason, we all have to pick our spoils. It sounds to me like you are spread way to thin. If you are spending over 1K in dues each year, sounds to me like you need to re-evaluate all of the organizations you are part of and choose only the ones that mean the most to you. We all could join everything to support our causes, but most can't afford it so we pick and choose.

The $10 late fee is because those that join late, in order to send out publications, they have to do them individually and that cost more. I would suggest that NAFA give folks the option of if they join late, they can opt out of getting the publications that year and join without the late fee. And now that the publications can be viewed online from the website, that makes even more sense. Greg, are you reading this, pass it on to NAFA.

[Hunter45]

I would suggest that NAFA give folks the option of if they join late, they can opt out of getting the publications that year and join without the late fee. And now that the publications can be viewed online from the website, that makes even more sense. Greg, are you reading this, pass it on to NAFA.

. . . was on my list of options for the Board to consider. The electronic versions of NAFA's publications are quite nice, actually. I'm confident we can come with a plan or plans that accomodate the various preferences of the members.

[Jack]

Also, it's also not about what falconers can do for NAFA. Again, Ralph's comment (and what this thread is about) was that NAFA members in days gone bye were interested in what they could do "for falconry" (not NAFA) and now they seem to be more interested in what NAFA can do for them (personally).

I think you may have missed the point a bit.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK[/QUOTE]

Bill, Nafa and falconry are not necessarily the same in this case. Most people I have ever known have probably never concerned themselves with what they could do for falconry as such. And I would not equate the two, since Nafa is not falconry, but rather a National Club as such. People have always joined a club for what it could do for them. I could not see someone actually joining a club that they had nothing in common with. Maybe a tax write off? I guess what I am trying to say is that what Nafa could do for you and what you can do for falconry are not even on the same side of the fence here.

Jack

[MrBill]

Michelle writes:

>Here in Arizona, our G&F has flat out told us they have no budget to put any effort into our adoption of the new regs, and that there's nothing we can do about it but wait. They're predicting it will be at least another couple years. Now, if Nafa can do something about that, I'm sure they'd gain alot more members in this state!

Damn, Michelle, that sucks! What is so costly about putting together regulations? I'll bet there is more than meets the eye going on with this decision.

Bill Boni
Former AZ resident

[Hunter45]

Michelle writes:

>Here in Arizona, our G&F has flat out told us they have no budget to put any effort into our adoption of the new regs, and that there's nothing we can do about it but wait. They're predicting it will be at least another couple years. Now, if Nafa can do something about that, I'm sure they'd gain alot more members in this state!

Damn, Michelle, that sucks! What is so costly about putting together regulations? I'll bet there is more than meets the eye going on with this decision.

Bill Boni
Former AZ resident

. . . . more than meets the eye. My home state, Indiana, just completed our submission process (it's going through the final steps and they should be "live" by June of 2011) and, yes, it is more complicated than most would think.

In addition to the expected semantics and policy discussions and negotiations with biology and enforcement staff, any change in a state's regulations also have to be run through a special legal assistant who reviews the new regulations for how they fit or do not fit with other existing state regulations/laws. This can lead to some "interesting" parsing and changes in words and wording that you thought was settled.

Even though we here in Indiana are blessed with a 45 year history of very compatible relations with our DNR, we ran into this very situation. Fortunately, we all worked to educate and understand each other and ended up with 99% of what we wanted and what also fit the DNR's requirements. At our final review meeting before the IN Natural Resources Council we were complimented on how we worked with the DNR staff to come up with the finished product.

Now, for the AZ problem of "no time/no staff/no money" to address redoing their regulations, recognize that ALL state budgets are under SEVERE pressure. In Indiana we took a very pro-active approach:

1. We looked at our "old" costs under the former joint federal/state permit system and suggested a new state cost structure that gave them MORE money than the old system, but was less than its combined cost. The DNR was both stunned and pleased that we took this step.

2. The officers of the Indiana Falconers Association, under their President Kurt Dorman's able leadership, took the effort to put together the first working draft in a format that let the INDNR see what the changes were that were requested.

3. They then had a meeting to hash out the questions and problems, perceived and actual, until the working draft could be submitted to the INDNR's legal review person.

4. One more meeting to work out some issues that came up in the legal review process and a couple of phone calls and the draft regulations were ready for . .

5. Presentation to the Indiana Natural Resources Council for approval to go through the formal adoption process (public hearings, etc. before becoming the new regs.)

6. We had already purchased (not that much) and donated special test taking software that generated a random selection of 20 questions from a pool of 40 questions in each of 6 categories (a total of 120 questions/exam). And, yes, we did all the research and assembled the pool of questions. We have the mutal respect that they trust us to keep the pool confidential, and that the pool covered all that was required to qualify a new falconer for his/her apprenticeship.

7. We had already produced a training video for the conservation officers in charge of administering inspections and enforcing the regulations. This will be updated to reflect the new regs.

8. Along with the video, we prepared a PowerPoint presentation and did live training of new DNR enforcement recruits. This, too, will be updated to reflect the new regulations.

Yes, it was complicated and very time consuming, but we got the new regulations implemented, and wasn't that the desired end result? And have we forgotten what we went through the FIRST time the regulations were promulgated over 35 years ago? And what about enduring and prevailing through Operation Falcon???

Freedom isn't free Never forget that. At least we haven't had to give our lives to have the right to practice falconry. And NAFA's TAC (Technical Advisory Committee) is always available to help out; you just need to ask.

And let's not forget that since "all politics are local", that means the local clubs MUST step up and carry the bulk of the load. It's just how it is. Heck, I know of some states where any "outside interference" would be the "kiss of death" for getting the new regulations through.

I know I went on a bit here, but I hope this helps AZ and other states struggling with similar problems.

[MrBill]

Good post, Greg. This information should be of real value to the AZ folks.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[dirthawker2004]

fred I do keep things pretty tight with the amount of orgs. I am part of. I also agree with the choice to get the publications and no 10.00 fee.

greg we are working on the new regs and getting them threw. the big hitch in most of this in AZ is the fact that all regs changes have to go threw congress and the governor. this is on top of the other stuff that you described. it will get done or the state will have some really big financial problems.

[Hunter45]

fred I do keep things pretty tight with the amount of orgs. I am part of. I also agree with the choice to get the publications and no 10.00 fee.

greg we are working on the new regs and getting them threw. the big hitch in most of this in AZ is the fact that all regs changes have to go threw congress and the governor. this is on top of the other stuff that you described. it will get done or the state will have some really big financial problems.

. . . it's another. I'm taking notes on the input I get on NAFEX. Some good minds here.

Re: AZ and the new regs, having the regs having to be modified legislatively instead of administratively, does, indeed, complicate things. Legislators are all wrapped up w/the coming elections and big issues that command the most voter attention; which unfortunately, falconry doesn't fall into.

Still, as I said earlier, all politics are local. You need to find the legislators who have the power and interest to advance your cause. Don't hesitate to use any other state field sport organizations to help in this effort. You may find some tit for tat political horsetrading and helping these groups with their goals/problems may be necessary to get them to help you. You'd be surprised what copying them on a few well-written letters that help them out will do to win their support for YOU.

I haven't spoken to him recently, but as I recall John Swift lives in Tucson and also works with the Falconry Archives at the Boise World Bird of Prey Center. John spent years working with the YMCA and is a real pro at politiking, fund raising, etc. You have to leverage the skill sets you have among your members. What we lack in sheer numbers, falconers make up for in tenacity and energy. Patience and persistence are two virtues you cannot underestimate. Just NEVER, EVER give up (to quote Winston Churchill when the Germans were trying to bomb London into oblivion).

I should be coming back through AZ in late Jan/early Feb from my stay in No. CA with my daughter (she's still recovering from the accident and her family needs some help, which I'll be there 4-6 wks to give) and would be happy to meet w/AZ's falconry leadership to discuss how you're doing by then. Drop me a PM with any gatherings you may have scheduled for this time period.

I also will bring this general topic (legislative vs. administrative regulation modifications) up w/fellow Directors at the NAFA Meet. I'm sure there are other states with similar situations either in play, or that have won, or are winning, the battle.

Always feel free to PM, email, or call me to discuss.

[dirthawker2004]

greg you bringing birds with ya we can try to get ya out hunting while you are here. I will try to figure out some dates and all for a meeting of the minds. let me know what dates you will be in the area and I will try get ya set up.

[Hunter45]

greg you bringing birds with ya we can try to get ya out hunting while you are here. I will try to figure out some dates and all for a meeting of the minds. let me know what dates you will be in the area and I will try get ya set up.

TY Jason. I'm still too far from the dates to give an exact because it will depend on how my help for my daughter goes. I'm guessing I'll be coming through AZ the end of January or possibly 1st week of February. As I get closer to things, I'll be able to advise more exactly. I'm looking forward to the opportunity to visit. Have a good hawking season!

[dirthawker2004]

well greg it sounds like the end of Jan is going to be when we have the DHC this yr so hope to see ya

[Hunter45]

well greg it sounds like the end of Jan is going to be when we have the DHC this yr so hope to see ya

keep you in the loop as my trip progresses. The big thing is whether my daughter needs my help longer than expected. She had another operation yesterday to remove screws from her left foot. Next is her right knee. Then she can begin trying to walk again. It's been almost 7 months since the accident. Pray for success with her operations (at least 2 more) and physical therapy over the next 18 months.

[MrBill]

What an ordeal your family has been through, Greg. It's amazing to me how you have kept your spirits up throughout all of this. I don't think I could do that; in fact, I know I couldn't, as I remember how affected I was when my buddies got killed in Vietnam. It was harder for me than it was for my warrior brothers to get beyond their deaths. Anyway, I applaud your resilience. Rock on! And best to your daughter.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[Hunter45]

What an ordeal your family has been through, Greg. It's amazing to me how you have kept your spirits up throughout all of this. I don't think I could do that; in fact, I know I couldn't, as I remember how affected I was when my buddies got killed in Vietnam. It was harder for me than it was for my warrior brothers to get beyond their deaths. Anyway, I applaud your resilience. Rock on! And best to your daughter.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

. . . . it's still a daily struggle. When I saw the latest radiographs of Sarah's injuries, I just wept and wept for "my little girl" (as all daughters are in their fathers' hearts!), and there is not a day goes by that I don't feel the pain of losing Sandra, the dearest, best wife a man could ever have. It's true I'm trying to "keep on keeping on", but I'm not sure the emotional pain ever will subside.

I hawked for an hour and a half yesterday in pretty thick cover (it's going to take a GOOD freeze to knock it down) and I had a good laugh when I got tripped up in some viney stuff, went down, and it took a good 10 minutes to get vertical again! LOL. And today? I'm stiff and sore! So, I guess I'm a little ways from being a "fit falconer" again. :D

I didn't fight in 'Nam (1Y draft rating kept me out), but I did lose friends over there, and remember how moving it was to take "rubbing" of one's name from the Wall in Washington, D.C. It's hard losing anyone you have feelings for.

[Roper]

Its not the breaths you take , but the things that take your breath away .
I hope the best for you .