lost and found site..via band number

[goshawks00]

OK new thread, What would be the best way to set up a website to establish bands numbers so they can be retrieved? I know there is such a site in the UK. It is voluntary, and many a hundred of hawks are registrered and many have found their way back to owner because of it. Ideas? May be a good spot for NAFEX to increase it's usefullness to the falconry community?

[jfseaman]

OK new thread, What would be the best way to set up a website to establish bands numbers so they can be retrieved? I know there is such a site in the UK. It is voluntary, and many a hundred of hawks are registrered and many have found their way back to owner because of it. Ideas? May be a good spot for NAFEX to increase it's usefullness to the falconry community?
It could have been something that the feds provided as a function of regulation, same as driving license and car registration but they didn't.

I've been considering doing it for quite some time but was dubious of the acceptance.

The IBR in the UK has become a for profit business though. They don't charge (much?) to register but their can be a charge to link the finder with the looser.

It could be a zero or very low cost feature of NAFA (not requiring membership) since birds don't know about state lines, it could be something on NAFEX, USAFalconry.com, raptorsnest.com or many of the other websites.

Features I would like to see:

Account based owner ship of the registration record.
Hidden contact information for the owner of the band with web e-mail to contact them.
Ability to transfer the registration record to a new owner so that there is only one record per bird.
The ability to register any type of band and bird, including exotics.
No limit to the number of bird registrations to an account.

Once such a system is created, how would participation be promoted. Articles/Ads in NAFA and state publications, American Falconer etc.?

It's a really good idea and I would participate. If someone takes it on, I'll help in any way I can.

[MarkT]

Features I would like to see:

Account based owner ship of the registration record.
Hidden contact information for the owner of the band with web e-mail to contact them.
Ability to transfer the registration record to a new owner so that there is only one record per bird.
The ability to register any type of band and bird, including exotics.
No limit to the number of bird registrations to an account.



1. Account based owner ship of the registration record.
I don't think there should be any user registration required. As far as being able to update a record then during the registration process require the person to supply their permit number. When it comes time to edit the record the only person that can do this would be someone that could provide the permit number the bird was registered under.

2. Hidden contact information for the owner of the band with web e-mail to contact them.
This one could be touchy. I think at a minimum the owners name and state should be displayed when searching a band number. e-mail address just change too often to rely on a message getting to the owner. I think with a name and state the odds of getting the bird home are pretty good. There could still be an automated e-mail sent to the owner.

3. Ability to transfer the registration record to a new owner so that there is only one record per bird.
Since the new owner should have the permit number of the previous owner they should be able to update the record with their information based on idea 1 listed above.

4. The ability to register any type of band and bird, including exotics.
Don't forget about chip numbers.

5. No limit to the number of bird registrations to an account.
I hate having to register for every little thing I do on the internet.

[Dirthawking]

My only question is would people be willing to pay a small fee to activate an account. Something like this would take some good maintenance and upkeep. Would not be all that cheap to run.

The only downside I could see would getting people to keep their information updated.

[sevristh]

I think Fred's idea of only having an email address show is a good one. In my opinion, many people do not report lost birds because of a fear of bashing from fellow falconers. This would provide some anonymity to it and still help the bird.

I think it could possibly be modeled off of Avid or one of the other dog microchip sites.

Another idea I had was to perhaps charge a small fee when a bird is reported as lost that will go to the finder....though I do see some problems with this. It would make people less likely to report etc...

All in all though, an excellent idea and something I would like to see pursued as well. Another thing to think about as Fred said is how the site will be funded...out of the kindness of the person's heart who creates it like Nafex? That might not be the best way, as when/if that person tires of it, or life circumstances change, that is a bunch of info that can be lost. It would seem to me that the site would have to be tied to a national organization simply to ensure that the database of information is not lost in a case like stated above.

[goshawks00]

Great start to a solution..

Ideas:
Maybe a $1.00 per bird registration would be cheap enough,.
with a $20.00 finders fee payable by the owner...

Maybe with some kind of assurance that this site may be transfer to another but will remain open in perpetuity

I don't like the idea of a national club being resposibile for this type of thing, unless a) it was for members only

or b) something like a free for members , and a fee (to be determined) for non members... (I am sick of the idea we owe non members any type of service)

Come let's trouble shoot this and make it happen...

This could also be a NAFEX sponsored project again using a fee based service of some type....

[outhawkn]

(I am sick of the idea we owe non members any type of service)

.

clappclapp:D

[kimmerar]

I haven't had much sleep so here's my little input - sorry Fred - I know you are really into the NAFA but I believe NAFA needs to be left out of this. Sorry. Can't explain why due to lack of sleep but that's my first gut feeling and I really need to quit second guessing those feelings I get.

Second - would the feds work with someone. You know - each region after all band #'s have been turned in by breeders in Dec - the person in charge this project would contact them in say Jan or when they are done with there record keeping and give the new band #'s that have been turned in. Along with a name and phone #. Now it get's complicated after that. But at least it's a start. And at least someone could contact the breeder and find out who bought it and go from there.

I love what the UK has set up for breeders (thanks Barry) it automatically updates each chick that has a band # to their data base. But you would have to find a way for all the databases to merge together. Now we are talking $ and the software you buy for this has alot to go with it to make it worth buying - and it's just extra detail to go with the software.

Sorry if this is repeat of what others have said - maybe one idea is new :).

[Dirthawking]

I think to keep it simple, owners and breeders would just input the information themselves. No need, and frankly a pain in the a.., it would be to have the feds involved.

You trap a bird, you get it banded, you go to the web site and register your band number.

You buy a captive bred bird, you get it home, you register the band.

You find a bird, you get the band number, you go to the web site and search the band number, and send an email or call the owner.

The site would be nothing more than a data storage site.

Heck, I would be willing to run the site, just don't have the complete user/computer know how.

[kimmerar]

Yes - I guess word of mouth would work after someone looses a bird. Then they realize oh - I should have registered my bird. I really believe this needs to be done. There are many computer guru's on here that could do it (if they have time ) and if Chris has the space available.

[Eragon]

But bands are going away for wild caught birds (I know some will still need them). Isn't a name tag with your phone number just as good? I think many people wouldn't be able to use the system if they only fly birds that don't need to be banded.

[Dirthawking]

But bands are going away for wild caught birds (I know some will still need them). Isn't a name tag with your phone number just as good? I think many people wouldn't be able to use the system if they only fly birds that don't need to be banded.


You can always request that the bird be banded for identification purposes (good idea anyway). And there are still states that require all birds to be banded.

[longbow]

Who would band my bird at my request ? Most falconry birds are not required to be banded. If people are willing to go through all that is required to list and update and register and.................................why would they not just put an ID tag on their birds ?

[Hawkmom]

I sell ID tags on Ebay. Check them out 5 for 25.00 Two sizes, Medium and small.

[Dirthawking]

Who would band my bird at my request ? Most falconry birds are not required to be banded. If people are willing to go through all that is required to list and update and register and.................................why would they not just put an ID tag on their birds ?

Your state will band them if you request a band. Really not all that hard to do. Just because it is not required, does not mean you can't have it done. We requested Texas band Brandi's bird before she brought it here, and they had no problems/questions about doing it.

Some people do not like ID tags hanging from their birds. Some people just engrave the lid of the transmitter.

Either way, the topic at hand is a web site devoted to a band registry lost and found type thing.

[Chris L.]

I really believe this needs to be done. There are many computer guru's on here that could do it (if they have time ) and if Chris has the space available.


I have the space! I would be interested in doing this and it would be Free. I think keeping it free will encourage falconers to use it. I will supply the space and the storage if someone is willing to right the code for an excel spread sheet or some sort of data base that can be searched.

The only problem I see is getting falconers to do it. So many want to have private lives and already despise 3-186. Hell I have a hard enough time getting people to use their first names on here.

I think at first many will put their birds on there, but it will die out. I hope not, as I think it is a great resource,

One thing to keep in mind is privacy. The emails and personal information must be kept from prying eyes/spammers. You can search the for the band # then click the band number and a form email will be sent to the owner, just like on NAFEX. Some food for thought...

I am all for it.

[Dirthawking]

clapp

Thank you Chris! I believe this will become a very valuable tool for all falconers! Now, who will step up and help write it? I am no good at code... confusedd

[goshawks00]

Let's try to think this through a bit more...

How about a place where a falconer can list a band once the bird is lost... That way the list will be minimal...

Also if a banded bird is recovered the species and band number can be reported to the site..The bird can ONLY be claimed by proof of a 3-186-A Only problem may be that this won't work for exotics as they are not required and usually aren't banded and may or may not have a legal paper trail to follow...

Hmmmm....

[sevristh]

That was going to be my suggestion as well... To keep space down etc, you could just make a site where you can list band #s of birds that are lost. I think would be much simpler. Easier to search through as well as there would be much less info.

[goshawks00]

Well Dave that makes you a border line genius as welltoungeout

[FredFogg]

I would be willing to write the code for this but I hate to inform everyone but there is already a lost and found report on NAFA and I upgraded it last December when I first took over the NAFA website and since then there has been only 3 or 4 birds put on there. Folks just don't use it. I know it is only for NAFA members but still, not much use. I think Chris is correct in that everyone would sign up initially, but eventually, the information wouldn't be kept updated and folks would be getting emails about birds lost that they don't even have anymore. I personally think this is something that I could do for NAFA and for the website and it be only for members. I keep seeing folks griping about what do I get for my dues, well, this would be something else you get for your dues. Ask your NAFA director and if enough people ask, they will suggest it to the board.

[Chris L.]

Barry and Dave,

we already have that with NAFA, NAFEX and raptors nest lost and found? Maybe I'm missing something. It's not searchable but people post their lost birds and other post about birds they found.

[Chris L.]

I keep seeing folks griping about what do I get for my dues, well, this would be something else ou get for your dues. Ask your NAFA director and if enough people ask, they will suggest it to the board.

Fred I do not think it should be members only. That would do a HUGE disservice to the entire falconry community. NAFA is a great place to have it though

[FredFogg]

Fred I do not think it should be members only. That would do a HUGE disservice to the entire falconry community. NAFA is a great place to have it though

Chris, it is a tough call! NAFA needs to do things for all falconers but at some point, there has to be a cut off. Why join NAFA if you are going to get all the benefits but not have to pay the dues? What items should be for members only and for the entire falconry community? Personally, I think general information should be available to all falconers, but perks like a database of all NAFA members birds shouldn't be for free. I know I am not getting paid to take care of the NAFA website, I am doing it as a volunteer and as my way of helping NAFA. Why should I put all the work into creating this type of database for every falconer out there when I am volunteering for NAFA? Like I said before, it definately is a fine line and a tough call!

[goshawks00]

Fred I do not think it should be members only. That would do a HUGE disservice to the entire falconry community. NAFA is a great place to have it though


Chris in this day and age of affirmative action, and having all things common, helping the disenfranchised, yada, yada, yada, I think actually it is more of the reverse... It is the entire falconry community that is doing a disservice to NAFA... They b... and moan about what have you done for me lately and expect them to do everything for free. ( Something I believe Bill was alluding to) How much better would the whole community be if everyone was a member...Do you suppose if the major were members that the majority would rule... NAFA's responsibility is to it's membership , if by that fact those outside that Association benefit, great, but it is not NAFA's responsibility to do so arbitrarily...
.02

[goshawks00]

Barry and Dave,

we already have that with NAFA, NAFEX and raptors nest lost and found? Maybe I'm missing something. It's not searchable but people post their lost birds and other post about birds they found.

That's great but if joe public doesn't know where to look, how will he ever find...NAFEX,RN,NAFA etc... Put your self in that situation, how would you even begin to find someone that could help? I think that may be the crux of the whole situation... Maybenoidea

[Chris L.]

Chris in this day and age of affirmative action, and having all things common, helping the disenfranchised, yada, yada, yada, I think actually it is more of the reverse... It is the entire falconry community that is doing a disservice to NAFA... They b... and moan about what have you done for me lately and expect them to do everything for free. ( Something I believe Bill was alluding to) How much better would the whole community be if everyone was a member...Do you suppose if the major were members that the majority would rule... NAFA's responsibility is to it's membership , if by that fact those outside that Association benefit, great, but it is not NAFA's responsibility to do so arbitrarily...
.02

What? Barry you need to relax. I was saying it should be open to the public. nothing about yada yada or yada??

Anyway, if NAFA doesnt want to do it I will host it. FREE FOR EVERYONE!!! So please take you NAFA rant else where. In fact I am getting tired of it.

[Chris L.]

That's great but if joe public doesn't know where to look, how will he ever find...NAFEX,RN,NAFA etc... Put your self in that situation, how would you even begin to find someone that could help? I think that may be the crux of the whole situation... Maybenoidea


So if they cant find the biggest orginaization on the net, how will they find your data base?
crazyy

[Dirthawking]

I would be willing to write the code for this but I hate to inform everyone but there is already a lost and found report on NAFA and I upgraded it last December when I first took over the NAFA website and since then there has been only 3 or 4 birds put on there. Folks just don't use it. I know it is only for NAFA members but still, not much use. I think Chris is correct in that everyone would sign up initially, but eventually, the information wouldn't be kept updated and folks would be getting emails about birds lost that they don't even have anymore. I personally think this is something that I could do for NAFA and for the website and it be only for members. I keep seeing folks griping about what do I get for my dues, well, this would be something else you get for your dues. Ask your NAFA director and if enough people ask, they will suggest it to the board.


First I am hearing of this. Is it a insert band number thing like we are talking about here, or is it just a posting place for lost and found birds? Can you track down owner through band number?

[goshawks00]

So if they cant find the biggest orginaization on the net, how will they find your data base?
crazyy

I don't know that was my question ... maybe google lost hawk found hawk?

[goshawks00]

So please take you NAFA rant else where. In fact I am getting tired of it.

box2Oh Chris that hurt.

[Chris L.]

... maybe google lost hawk found hawk?

Barry,

I have to tell you how search engines work. Just because you create said web site it doesnt just show up on google. It does, but way down in the pages. Not many people will keep clicking past 2-3 google search pages before they give up. It can take years for it to show up on the first page of google. Especially if it is not updated constantly and if top sights on google don't link back to it.

That is why NAFA or NAFEX need to pick this project up. Those who are looking will be directed much quicker to a site that is already listed at the top of google searches.

I am sorry for my last post. It was a little harsh and out of character for me. Please accept my apologies

Kindest regards

Chris





I will say it again. If anyone wants to tackle this I have offered the place to host it.

[goshawks00]

You should be sorrytoungeout
Yes you are correct I don't know how google works thanks for the explanation... I'm not sure adding thousands of band numbers to a site will be very useful. Maybe a new tack would be to somehow get the Feds ( yea right) to allow a group, or a person representing a group a hotline to a data base to look a band numbers for birds that have been found... Maybe a way that a representative could enter said found band and it would show some type of info that would help find the owner.noidea
It really isn't a big issue for me , having only lost one bird a merlin on it's maiden flight, she wearing only the plastic band one one leg...

[Chris L.]

Yeah I have to say I am with you on the points you just made. I have lost one bird so far and I hope to never lose another!!

I do beleive we need a centralized place for falconers to search. We do have NAFA, raptors nest, and NAFEX but that is 3 to many places to look or post. I really think this needs to be done.

I want to think about how we can get falconers to use it??? That is going to be our hardest obstacle. Maybe we could solicit all of the clubs in the USA to let them know of the data base and to inform their members. Maybe advertise in a few publications. If NAFA picked this up they could put it in their publication.

[goshawks00]

That would be a good start...possibly include re-hab centers, and yea I know there are good and bad ones , but at least the good ones would respond... I still believe the Feds have the most viable infomation , it would be just cranking that nut... Possible also each stae permit specialist could be added to the list of those that would be contacted about lost raptors and would be able to forward the info to a "private" run falconer ran site...

[frootdog]

Who would band my bird at my request ? Most falconry birds are not required to be banded. If people are willing to go through all that is required to list and update and register and.................................why would they not just put an ID tag on their birds ?

Dustin, Mario is correct to a point. In CO they "come out and band the birds". it is required there. In TX all you have to do is shoot the state an email and request a band and they mail it to you. They do not come and band our birds in TX. Same bands you would use for a wild trapped HH, just slap it on a RT and report it as a banded bird.

[REYNALDO]

I have just recently read this thread. I think there should be a way to edit the numbers when a bird dies.

[touyang]

I could also host it...
Something like this:
Test it (http://modernfalconry.com/birddatabase/search.html)

[RyanVZ]

Playing Devils advocate. Say I know Bob lost a Gyr. I then have a rehabber leave me a voice mail and say they found a white falcon. Couldn't I then find that falcons band number on the web and call back the rehabber with the band number and 9 out of 10 of them would just hand over the bird.

There would have to be a way that it would be completely anonymous to stop people with less than good intentions. I like the idea I just think that it would be very difficult for me to put my band numbers out in any way.

[touyang]

My examples were just a feasibility test. Like everything else in life, if someone is determine enough to steal a bird or anything for that matter, there's nothing you could do to prevent it. You can make it difficult for them to steal it, but not impossible...

[REYNALDO]

we have a piece of paper having that band number and its under our name. having to show that will probably help.

[Eagle Owl]

Playing Devils advocate. Say I know Bob lost a Gyr. I then have a rehabber leave me a voice mail and say they found a white falcon. Couldn't I then find that falcons band number on the web and call back the rehabber with the band number and 9 out of 10 of them would just hand over the bird.

There would have to be a way that it would be completely anonymous to stop people with less than good intentions. I like the idea I just think that it would be very difficult for me to put my band numbers out in any way.

For a database such as this, you should not have the band numbers listed like a membership directory. You would have to enter the entire band number to get the owner info.

And when I have known falconers and rehabbers that have found birds, they only gave a partial band number to help locate the area the bird came from. Then the owner would have to give the entire # as well as provide a copy of the 3-186 to prove ownership. I have never known a rehabber to hand over a bird to anyone without proof of ownership. They are usually more cautious about such things than falconers are.

[Grahame]

We are the North American Falconry Exchange. This would be the ideal location to host such a database.

In Canada our falcons must be banded. Whether it is captive bred, live trap or a transferred rehab you must have it banded and recorded with the Provincial body.

I do not think it needs to be a mandatory thing but if we get breeders to announce to their buyers that the band will be registered in the database then that is a great start. Ultimately it benefits us all when somebody loses or finds a bird.

I am not a strong programmer but offer my services to assist in construction and operation.

Let's get started.

Grahame
Calgary, Alberta

[Hawkmom]

BTW: Did the Georgia bird get returned to it's falconer?

[sevristh]

BTW: Did the Georgia bird get returned to it's falconer?

One of them did. He has another loose as well.

[touyang]

I could also host it...
Something like this:
Test it (http://modernfalconry.com/birddatabase/search.html)

Ok. Played around with it a bit and here's a better (Beta) version. As a test, I uploaded all the Harris Hawk database registered at the Baywing site (1331 records - some were omitted for lack of band number) . Note everything you see is publically available and I just exported the records into my database.

Some records don't have the owners listed so if the breeders' names are available, I substituted those...

You can search, register new birds, and update existing records from the same page. Play with it...it's only a testing ground so you can't hurt anything.

Test it out... (http://www.modernfalconry.com/falconrybirdsdatabase.html)

[FredFogg]

You can search, register new birds, and update existing records from the same page. Play with it...it's only a testing ground so you can't hurt anything.

Test it out... (http://www.modernfalconry.com/falconrybirdsdatabase.html)

Hmmm, says my bird is owned by Tom Markwood! LOL Should I update it? Question? Can anyone go in and update the information on any Band Number? Hey, that is my bird, it says so in the database! :eek: :D

Well, I answered my own question! I went in and updated the information on my bird. That would definately be a problem, I think!

[sevristh]

That's a very good point that Fred brings up. How do you protect a certain band number from only being updated by the owner? If you password protect it, and the bird is sold, but the previous owner either doesn't update it, or moves, or drops dead, then what? How would you go about updating what is now your bird?

[touyang]

Hmmm, says my bird is owned by Tom Markwood! LOL Should I update it? Question? Can anyone go in and update the information on any Band Number? Hey, that is my bird, it says so in the database! :eek: :D

Well, I answered my own question! I went in and updated the information on my bird. That would definately be a problem, I think!

1. This is a test - you can do anything you wish

2. This is not a legal document/record so it doesn't mean anything. It's just a place to quickly share information so if someone found a bird and wants to see who owns it, he/she would use it, but I would imagine they would use a a little caution before just handing over a bird to some stranger just because they claimed to be the owner....

[touyang]

That's a very good point that Fred brings up. How do you protect a certain band number from only being updated by the owner? If you password protect it, and the bird is sold, but the previous owner either doesn't update it, or moves, or drops dead, then what? How would you go about updating what is now your bird?

You filled out the paper work didn't you?

[outhawkn]

You can always request that the bird be banded for identification purposes (good idea anyway). And there are still states that require all birds to be banded.

Minnesota for one......

[sevristh]

You filled out the paper work didn't you?

You're missing the point of my question I think. I am saying if I have a Harris and I register it on the site under band number 12345 and five years later I sell it to you, you are now the owner. You then go to the site to change the info on the band number, but you don't know my password, you then try to contact me and I have fallen off the face of the earth or hate you or whatever. How do you now update band number 12345 with the correct owner info?

The flip side of this is if we don't have a password protection, what is to keep anyone from updating (or sabotaging) band info?

[touyang]

You're missing the point of my question I think. I am saying if I have a Harris and I register it on the site under band number 12345 and five years later I sell it to you, you are now the owner. You then go to the site to change the info on the band number, but you don't know my password, you then try to contact me and I have fallen off the face of the earth or hate you or whatever. How do you now update band number 12345 with the correct owner info?

The flip side of this is if we don't have a password protection, what is to keep anyone from updating (or sabotaging) band info?

Again, what I'm saying is use it with caution. To keep it free, I think it should just be kept as simple as possible. But if we start requiring complicated schemes then it would cost $ to run/maintain it.

BTW, shouldn't have to to this, but if I talk to a lawyer, he would suggest doing it...I added some disclaimers to the pages so hope people will use the information obtained accordingly.

[sevristh]

Not trying to argue with ya here Tou, so I will say this and then let it rest... I think without addressing the above concern the site will, in time, become a cluttered mess.

[touyang]

Not trying to argue with ya here Tou, so I will say this and then let it rest... I think without addressing the above concern the site will, in time, become a cluttered mess.

Me neither...not trying to argue, just thinking out lound here. It's not fool proof, but I think the only way to curtail people from sabotaging the information and maintain some kind of integrity, there must be a fee to register/maintain records and requiring physical proof (i.e., copy Form 3-186A) of ownership before allowing any registration. Keeping the search option available for everyone.

[MarkT]

You're missing the point of my question I think. I am saying if I have a Harris and I register it on the site under band number 12345 and five years later I sell it to you, you are now the owner. You then go to the site to change the info on the band number, but you don't know my password, you then try to contact me and I have fallen off the face of the earth or hate you or whatever. How do you now update band number 12345 with the correct owner info?

The solution I see is when you register a band number you would have to enter your permit number. In order to edit a record you would need the permit number that was used when the bird was registered. If you buy or have a bird transfered to you you should have this persons permit number somewhere in the transfer paperwork. Then when editing the record the owners permit number should be an updatable field.

[Chris L.]

The solution I see is when you register a band number you would have to enter your permit number. In order to edit a record you would need the permit number that was used when the bird was registered. If you buy or have a bird transfered to you you should have this persons permit number somewhere in the transfer paperwork. Then when editing the record the owners permit number should be an updatable field.

clapp

[touyang]

The solution I see is when you register a band number you would have to enter your permit number. In order to edit a record you would need the permit number that was used when the bird was registered. If you buy or have a bird transfered to you you should have this persons permit number somewhere in the transfer paperwork. Then when editing the record the owners permit number should be an updatable field.

That's a good idea, Mark.

[Flatwater Falconer]

Who would band my bird at my request ? Most falconry birds are not required to be banded. If people are willing to go through all that is required to list and update and register and.................................why would they not just put an ID tag on their birds ?

In Nebraska I'm in touch with two women who have banded birds for 40 years. Everything from wrens to eagles. Their log books are amazing. Their library of band sizes and types is amazing.

You probably have similar people in your area. Contacting the Audubon Society (who's members are NOT all hostile to falconry by the way) would yield results I believe. You do not have to reveal why you wanted to contact a local bander. For all they know it might be to volunteer with banding . . . And in a way you would be. ;)

[Dirthawking]

In Nebraska I'm in touch with two women who have banded birds for 40 years. Everything from wrens to eagles. Their log books are amazing. Their library of band sizes and types is amazing.

You probably have similar people in your area. Contacting the Audubon Society (who's members are NOT all hostile to falconry by the way) would yield results I believe. You do not have to reveal why you wanted to contact a local bander. For all they know it might be to volunteer with banding . . . And in a way you would be. ;)

So as to avoid any and all confusion and future confrontations, I would band with nothing but a black federal falconry bag. I could see nothing but a nightmare when you are seen training/hunting with a bird with a bird bander band on it. :eek:

[sevristh]

So as to avoid any and all confusion and future confrontations, I would band with nothing but a black federal falconry bag. I could see nothing but a nightmare when you are seen training/hunting with a bird with a bird bander band on it. :eek:

Why would this be a problem? If a bird is banded in a flyway say, up in MN, and then comes down south and is trapped by a falconer, it is still legal. Just like a goose being banded up there and being shot by a hunter down here. Just because it's banded doesn't preclude it from being legally harvested.

[touyang]

Updated the app to reflect Mark's suggestion in using federal permit number to authenticate ownership. I was a little reluctant to use it for that purpose because some people may be sensitive in giving out their fed permit numbers, but since they are required/listed on all 3-186A forms especially when you transferred/sold a bird to another individual. So maybe it's not that big a deal...

It is still a free for all - don't need to log in to use it.

Again, here's the app... (http://www.modernfalconry.com/falconrybirdsdatabase.html)

[RyanVZ]

When your state gets its new regs you wont have a federal permit number.

[touyang]

When your state gets its new regs you wont have a federal permit number.

A state permit should work - whatever the new permit is it should be fine as long as it's unique to that permittee.

[jfseaman]

When your state gets its new regs you wont have a federal permit number.

Falconry is not the only type of Migratory Birds permit. Propagation, Education and Special Purpose: Abatement using trained Raptors. and I think, there will still be a federal permit number for falconry as required by MBTA (not sure and things may have changed). It will just be issued by the feds once. Anyone with a new regs state license, please correct this if you have completed all the steps such as updating the electronic 3-186A.

[RyanVZ]

We only put our state falconry ID number on the online 3-186a form when transferring birds and only use the state number when signing up to use the online reporting.

https://migbirdapps.fws.gov/falconry/prg/frmFalreg.aspx

At this point, we still have to use the paper form though if transferring a bird from/to a state that doesnt have the new regs in place, but that is a topic for another thread.

[Joby]

We still send paper copies to the state and feds here in Ohio.