Falconry for me?

Hey I am a full time vet tech student. My goal is to specialize in avian. I was wondering if getting my falconry license is a good idea? I do not want to hunt with birds. I do not want to own a bird. I have owned over a 100 species of birds my whole life. Trained many to free fly. I love all animals but my passion is really in birds. I have none right now though as I am in the process of moving near toronto and have a cat and a dog. Most of my knowledge about them comes from watching videos and reading books about them in the wild. I know almost all the raptor groups and their habits. or at least I try! It has been a life long thing, I see a raptor or bird and just read about it. My real goal is to work with them in zoo type, or conservation, Or any kind of wildlife that is a positive place that helps birds and I can use my education to continue to do it. Not really interested in working in a vet clinic. I understand there are many species that are flown and do not hunt like turkey vultures. black vultures, other old world vultures, Some smaller old world vultures, the more aggressive powerful bigger old world vultures. All the owl species, Tawny, Steppe eagles, The sea eagle family, Storks, Corvids, Etc.. Is there a training course we can get that can train us in this for the purpose of education to help us further in our career? Please let me know. I want to get my wildlife rehab course done while i am studying hopefully I am not to late to apply. But i feel the training is not enough. Thanks. SS

Falconry is the art of HUNTING with a bird of prey. They fact that you say you do not want to hunt with a raptor automatically means falconry is not for you. There are many educational facilities in Ontario. Go and volunteer at one of these. Get experience. You will find that in Ontario you have to go through an apprenticeship program to get your license.

Bob
BC Canada

If you want to work with these animals but not own them or hunt with them I would recommend volunteering with an educator, rehabilitator, or a zoo like Bob said. You can gain experience and knowledge and not have to own or hunt with the bird. Best of luck in your endeavors, but no I would not recommend falconry as you have stated that you do not want to own a bird or even hunt with them and those are the two largest aspects of falconry.

OK thanks to work BOP in a zoo type setting or conservation do we need a falconry license? Or does it just mean the hunting part of it? Is there another program that just teaches you hands on how to work with non domestic birds? Or would volunteering be enough?

I am getting my wildlife rehab license this october. OR i mean i am taking the course writing the test I do not know if it grants me a license only the MNR can do that.

I joined because no one really knows that I am aware of BOPs more than falconers? If there are a group that do point me to them. But yeah my goals are for work, conservation, education, career. No owning raptor or hunting. Maybe keeping just for helping to rehab one. Even to help with their rehab I thought you needed some hands on flying experience with them? Just so you dont damage the bird or yourself?

I was just thinking of all kinds of ways to put me ahead of the game while in school getting my vet tech license. Other than the courses held in october for wildlife rehab does anyone know of any others? To help out with wildlife we need a permit. I keep digging around for info and tried to ask other avian vet techs no response no nothing so I am trying everything now.


Thanks

STEPHAN

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Originally Posted by flamingo

OK thanks to work BOP in a zoo type setting or conservation do we need a falconry license?

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I assume any license needed in that type setting is possessed by the zoo, not the individuals working at the zoo. Or, perhaps, by whoever is in charge of the raptors at that zoo.

And, to reiterate what everyone else has said, falconry IS hunting. Hunting isn't something that is part of falconry - it's the entire goal, and the only reason we are allowed to possess these birds in the first place.

I think the rehab license that you're going for is what you need.

I don't know what Canada's laws are, but here in America you do not need any licenses or permit to work with raptors so long as the license/permit holder is present. If you plan on keeping a bird(s) under your name for any length of time you need to have a license or permit. If you acquire a falconry permit than you MUST own, train, and hunt with a bird. I would not recommend getting a falconry permit. If your interested in training these birds to fly for shows and program I would recommend finding someone who has experience in this and learning from them.

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Originally Posted by eminart

I assume any license needed in that type setting is possessed by the zoo, not the individuals working at the zoo.

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For the most part yes this is true, thought it is possible for an individual to possess a permit that allows them to keep and/or work with animals within the zoo without the zoo/organization needing to hold the permit. Though laws differ from state to state and from organizations such as AZA and AAZ and so forth.

Wanting to "work" with birds of prey, but refusing them the right to hunt, is in my opinion a contradiction in terms. It's almost like you're working against them.
They were born to hunt! Falconers develop relationships with birds of prey, because these birds can realize themselves in the falconers care.

I might be wrong, but I think many of the birds that end up in rehab situations were destined to be removed from the population.... How much of that kind of stuff is anthropomorphic hoohaa I can only guess.

Have a look at this thread. There's a reason falconers are sometimes suspicious about the work rehabbers do.
http://www.nafex.net/showthread.php?t=12465

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Originally Posted by JrHawker

I don't know what Canada's laws are, but here in America you do not need any licenses or permit to work with raptors so long as the license/permit holder is present. If you plan on keeping a bird(s) under your name for any length of time you need to have a license or permit. If you acquire a falconry permit than you MUST own, train, and hunt with a bird. I would not recommend getting a falconry permit. If your interested in training these birds to fly for shows and program I would recommend finding someone who has experience in this and learning from them.

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Ok, Michael, I have tried not to respond to your post because, well, you need to learn more before posting some of this stuff and I have tried to get that point across but it doesn't seem to have worked. But some apprentice or wanna be is going to see this and I don't want them to have the wrong information.

You do NOT have to own a bird to have a falconry permit! And yes, the regulations do say you should hunt with the bird and of course, that requires training but I can assure you there are more pet keepers out there than there are hunters. But the main point is you do not have to OWN a bird.

Now the word OWN is a tricky word in falconry and we have fought with the feds over this for a long time. If we trap a bird from the wild, their take is we don't OWN that bird, we have just borrowed it from the wild but yet, they consider the bird taken from the wild and no longer part of the wild bird count, even if we turned it loose the next season. But ownership is a whole new thread and if you do a search on here you can find out all about it.

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Originally Posted by FredFogg

Ok, Michael, I have tried not to respond to your post because, well, you need to learn more before posting some of this stuff and I have tried to get that point across but it doesn't seem to have worked. But some apprentice or wanna be is going to see this and I don't want them to have the wrong information.

You do NOT have to own a bird to have a falconry permit! And yes, the regulations do say you should hunt with the bird and of course, that requires training but I can assure you there are more pet keepers out there than there are hunters. But the main point is you do not have to OWN a bird.

Now the word OWN is a tricky word in falconry and we have fought with the feds over this for a long time. If we trap a bird from the wild, their take is we don't OWN that bird, we have just borrowed it from the wild but yet, they consider the bird taken from the wild and no longer part of the wild bird count, even if we turned it loose the next season. But ownership is a whole new thread and if you do a search on here you can find out all about it.

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frus)Wow Fred, let's just nit pick the definition of the word own here. I'm pretty sure we all know that these birds do not belong to us as we all are well aware that they are federal property and the feds can take them at anytime if we are in violation of our permits. That being said you should still take 'ownership' of the bird that is in your care. Thus 'owning' a bird. Now as far as the requirement of hunting goes to have the permit, I was informed by the new Maryland regs that you must obtain a hunting permit before you can advance from apprentice to general and my sponsor has told me that it is a requirement that you hunt with your bird. Sorry you majesty if little ol' me is miss informing the public with my stupidity.

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Originally Posted by JrHawker

frus)Wow Fred, let's just nit pick the definition of the word own here. I'm pretty sure we all know that these birds do not belong to us as we all are well aware that they are federal property and the feds can take them at anytime if we are in violation of our permits. That being said you should still take 'ownership' of the bird that is in your care. Thus 'owning' a bird. Now as far as the requirement of hunting goes to have the permit, I was informed by the new Maryland regs that you must obtain a hunting permit before you can advance from apprentice to general and my sponsor has told me that it is a requirement that you hunt with your bird. Sorry you majesty if little ol' me is miss informing the public with my stupidity.

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Michael, when you put MUST in front of own, how do you expect anyone to take it? Seriously, do you think anyone belives you were trying to use the word own in a way meaning take care of? Come on! I am not trying to be a know it all but you really do need to read more on here and post a bit less until you have some more experience. And to correct you again, you have to have a hunting license to get a falconry permit and that is the first year you are an apprentice, not just when you go from an apprentice to a general! I don't know of any state that doesn't require a hunting permit, unless it is already included in the falconry permit, which some states do.

Let me ask you one question Michael, is your sponsor on NAFEX and if not, does he know all the things you are posting on here? You might want to have a little chat with him and see how he feels about it.

Just a thought.

When did buying a hunting license certify that one had hunted or taken game. Plenty of pet keepers with valid hunting license in their wallets.

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Originally Posted by colelkhunter

Just a thought.

When did buying a hunting license certify that one had hunted or taken game. Plenty of pet keepers with valid hunting license in their wallets.

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More than any of us would like to say unfortunately, but the point is they do have to have a hunting license to have a falconry license from the get go!

Another question when applying for jobs in avian field in zoos like just say raptor care taker or something. Having a falconry permit before hand. You think that would put someone ahead of the game? Like be a good thing to have on a resume? And if i was ever lucky enough to work with raptors in a career sort of thing. I would not "stop" a raptor from hunting. Just like i would not stop any animal from hunting to feed it self. Right now I have a rescued one wing silver gull that lives around a fake pond. I am volunteering at a wildlife rescue. But this gull is not native it is just taken from someone.

Personally, it sounds like your wanting a falconry permit for the wrong reasons.

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Originally Posted by GONEHAWKN

Personally, it sounds like your wanting a falconry permit for the wrong reasons.

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http://www.nafex.net//images/icons/icon6.gif ALL the wrong reasons. thumbsupp sorta like wanting a CDL license ta jump semis with a motorcycle ...but that's just my opinion, which I'm sure to be chastised for. With your reasons for getting a license/permit, my guess is you'll have a rough time finding a proper/competent sponsor...again, jmo.

As a Certified Vet Tech, in my 12 or so years of experience, exotics and wildlife included, it is very hard to get a job in a zoo setting. Rehab is much much easier, but most of them start as volunteers. If you want to work in a zoo setting, which is what it sounds like, start off by finding a place to volunteer. Falconry is for letting birds of prey do what they do best...hunt. No need to get an extra peice of paper, that will absolutely mean nothing to you. Bottom line...volunteer in most places it is the only way to get experience. Be aware, death is a part of life as falconers/hunters well know, and unfortunately in the veterinary field it happens to be a large part. I work in emergency medicine and euthanize close to 45-60 animals a week. If you are not ready for that, you may want to rethink your profession.

I would point out that rehabbers would generally benefit by having a trained falconer on staff. I have benefited by working with rehabbers in learning about husbandry and medicine.

Rehabbers cannot hunt with a bird of prey, and therefore have no way of knowing if the bird has adapted to an injury enough to survive in the wild. They make sure the bird is healthy and fat, and then release it. Sometimes there are other problems that are not readily discernable such as mental issues after suffering a traumatic injury.

In any case, bottom line if you don't want to hunt don't get a falconry permit. However, if you understand that hunting is a natural part of a raptor's life, and that you can help a bird along to "relearn" until it adapts to an injury you just might be a better rehabber. Even if your best efforts fail to get the bird to adapt, you now have a trained raptor to use for education purposes. You would be amazed how much more people care about raptors after they see them fly. JMHO.

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Originally Posted by HawkinCrazy

As a Certified Vet Tech, in my 12 or so years of experience, exotics and wildlife included, it is very hard to get a job in a zoo setting. Rehab is much much easier, but most of them start as volunteers. If you want to work in a zoo setting, which is what it sounds like, start off by finding a place to volunteer. Falconry is for letting birds of prey do what they do best...hunt. No need to get an extra peice of paper, that will absolutely mean nothing to you. Bottom line...volunteer in most places it is the only way to get experience. Be aware, death is a part of life as falconers/hunters well know, and unfortunately in the veterinary field it happens to be a large part. I work in emergency medicine and euthanize close to 45-60 animals a week. If you are not ready for that, you may want to rethink your profession.

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What a pessimistic way to look at it. You probably put down the healthy ones also that are just to tame and feel good about it?

lol

What a ridiculous thread I have met many falconers only a handful are decent people the rest just want to go out and kill cause they lack something below their waste line.

Why do so many keep owls and vultures? You think they are out hunting and killing with them? Seriously It does not take someone with a PHD to understand what I was trying to get at but no one had the brain capacity to get it. Maybe its just backwoods Americans. lol Imagine the public read all the stupid posts you guys say here? they would set your sport on fire. I am sorry but majority rules. And you have wayyy to many idiots out there flying birds that don't even know what they are flying. IF a monkey can get a falconry license (like half the forum). Someone interested in conservation and changing things is a bad idea huh? Wow nice logic. What a stupid forum. I have met falconers never so many idiots in one spot.

Many fly all sorts of non hunting birds they dont need to be blood thursty freaks to be one. DESPITE what falconry means we do not live in the olden ages anymore. More are much more important now and are not tools. IF people are too much of a D**K to think outside the box like people are going to respect this sport for long. Look at society today.

It's people like you that will never understand the concept of hunting, that death of animals is a natural aspect of human beings and their innate survival. It's really a pity that there are so many like you that have no grasp of the natural world as it really is, that one can't and shouldn't save every animal, and regard anyone that respects and understand any type of hunting sport as an uneducated knuckle dragging neanderthal. You come on here asking questions about participating in what is a centuries old sport, then stoop so low as to call people infantile names, that in all honesty were trying to educate you and help you. You have no business on this forum, take your bleeding heart else where.

Also, forum rules state you should sign your posts with your name. Won't you please do so from now on? ;)[/QUOTE]

I don't think this person is going to be around long enough to sign another post. I sure hope not. Don't need trolls.

Michael,

I am going to close this thread and I am going to reset the forum rules for you to reread them. Please pay close attention to them, follow them or I will be deleting you account.

This is a falconry forum, not a rehabber or "Keep birds of prey for my role playing fantasy world forum". NAFEX has a wealth knowledge about BOPs but we are all hesitant to share this when someone like yourself comes on and makes posts like the ones above. Remember, you are the one who came to our community looking for answers. We are not the ones who came to your rehab forum asking you for answers, so tread lightly and respect those who have the knowledge and the rest will follow.

Good luck grass hopper

Chris