Imprint harris hawks

After reading a post on another thread I got to wondering about imprint harris hawks.
I can't imagine someone wanting a tamer harris than a well manned parent raised bird. My own harris hawk is disgustingly tame LOL. I love it. I can't imagine a nicer bird.
I would guess that an imprint HH might be extremely obnoxious. A human household can't compare to the socialisation a young HH would get with its parents and siblings constantly in attendance and checking its behavior.
With HHs as well established in captivity as they are I also can't see imprinting one to save its life (although breeders may dissagree with me here).
Anyway, can anyone tell me about knowing an imprint HH?

I know one. Let me just say......it sucks, good hunter, crap additude

Well I suppose at least it hunts LOL.

Out of curiosity though, male or female? My guess would be that a male might be more tolerable than a female, for obvious reasons.

I am also aware of more than one. In one case, unfortunately there was an issue with the hen raising the bird and a surrogate wasn't available. Imprinting the bird DID save its life and the breeder/falconer accepted his responsibility and has raised and hunted the bird for several years. She is a great hunter but won't tolerate any other human within striking distance. She is great with her owner and will likely be inseminated this year. Not a desirable situation but efforts to maximize her life are being made. Bill

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Originally Posted by Himiko

I am also aware of more than one. In one case, unfortunately there was an issue with the hen raising the bird and a surrogate wasn't available. Imprinting the bird DID save its life and the breeder/falconer accepted his responsibility and has raised and hunted the bird for several years. She is a great hunter but won't tolerate any other human within striking distance. She is great with her owner and will likely be inseminated this year. Not a desirable situation but efforts to maximize her life are being made. Bill

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That is a good exception, when the breeder makes a lifetime commitment to the bird. Thank you for the info.
I will bet that she will be a very easy bird to inseminate LOL.

There's a guy in FL (can't remember his name, but he does nuisance animal work, drives a half-camo'd pickup truck) that came to the AL meet a couple years ago that had a VERY well mannered and absolutely quiet imprinted mHH.

The one I described above only vocalizes as a defense and has good manners with her breeder/handler and her owner's dogs. Did you have an opportunity to witness the Florida bird hunting and was that solo?

HH are just so intelligent and social that imprinting would sure not be my choice. I use to breed them and am getting back into that aspect. They are amazing birds. Bill

You'll be sorry.

Yes the RARE ones turn out but can you guarantee you'll get it perfect? How many imprint coops were commended to death this year? IMHO and imprint HH would be even harder to get right.

oh and

It won't hunt with other HH so you'll always hunt alone. Might as well get a redtail. IMHO the only reason to have HH is to fly in a cast.

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Originally Posted by jfseaman

You'll be sorry.

Yes the RARE ones turn out but can you guarantee you'll get it perfect? How many imprint coops were commended to death this year? IMHO and imprint HH would be even harder to get right.

oh and

It won't hunt with other HH so you'll always hunt alone. Might as well get a redtail. IMHO the only reason to have HH is to fly in a cast.

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Exactly who will be sorry?
No one on this thread is suggesting that it's a good idea to imprint a harris hawk.
The opposite was my impression. It is neat to hear exceptions, but this thread is NOT intended to suggest that imprinting HHs is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Himiko

Did you have an opportunity to witness the Florida bird hunting and was that solo?

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Yes, it hunted solo. Unfortunately, as I recall, we were unable to put any game up for it.


As for imprinting a HH, the only reason I can see to do it would be for creating hybrids. But then, after imprinting a gos this year, the only reason I can see imprinting ANYTHING is for breeding purposes. Well, the only reason for ME to do it again. Y'all can do what you want, but I'm sticking to parent raised and passage birds for a long while now! ;)

PMSL try a falcon Dave, if you have the place for it, they're sweet.

I would love a prairie falcon if I knew one could be successful at carhawking. I'm waiting and HOPING that Fred is successful in trapping one this year so I can see if it's doable. PF's have been my favorite bird since before I even got into falconry.

This might be a little off topic, but its my thread, I can do it LOL. Has anyone ever known or done an imprint prairie falcon?
I loved my semi-imprint lanner from years back, but I've never heard of an imprint prairie falcon.

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Originally Posted by Zarafia

Exactly who will be sorry?
No one on this thread is suggesting that it's a good idea to imprint a harris hawk.
The opposite was my impression. It is neat to hear exceptions, but this thread is NOT intended to suggest that imprinting HHs is a good idea.

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That's the general 'you' like the general 'we'. Anyone imprinting a HH.

I had a imprint MHH. It was given to me when it was 21 days old if I remember corectly. It was of course a screamer, but only in the mews, never made a sound after it was on the glove. That little 16 oz bird would would go after anything that moved. By the time I took him to the first state meet which was in november he had caught 28 rabbits, 4 quail, 1 racoon and 1 oposum .BUT could not be flown with or near another HH. And he would bind to the head of any dog he saw, from a Jack Russel to a black lab. So I had to be very selective where I flew him. I admit I had a blast with that bird, but no way would I ever do it again.

I have flown a female imprint Prairie and a male Gyr and am presently flying a female imprint Peregrine. If you have experience with raising imprints many of the "negatives" can be avoided. But a Harris would never be my choice. Best imprint I ever had was a Redtail and he was a pleasure to be around always.

The Prairie was sweet much of the time but occasionally went to the dark side. Bill

Not sure that I would imprint a prairie as some of them tend to exhibit imprint like tendencies after being in captivity for a while from what I've heard. I think I'd go for a passage.

I have heard good and bad things about passage prairie temperments.
One of my very favorite falconers, Dave (Chamokane) says wonderful things about his experiences with passage prairie falcons, at least one in particular that I can think of. Says she was extremely loyal and fun.

There are several falconers here in NM flying brancher-age taken Harris hawks, one is on this list, actfalconer, they are all dynamite game hawks and very nice birds. On the other hand, a friend of mine trapped a passage female last season - 1st passage allowed here in 20 some years, anyway I had the distinct pleasure (NOT!!) of installing a backpack on that bird. This was by far the nastiest bird of any species I've had to deal with. It makes all the violent goshawks out there look like kittens. Juan tells me he has to fly this bird far away from humans and dogs because it outright attacks dogs, it bound to a St Bernard's face last season, and he's afraid what it might do if it saw kids playing. So there you have it, even passage birds raised by a family group can have hideous behavior.

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Originally Posted by Zarafia

I have heard good and bad things about passage prairie temperments.
One of my very favorite falconers, Dave (Chamokane) says wonderful things about his experiences with passage prairie falcons, at least one in particular that I can think of. Says she was extremely loyal and fun.

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The biggest problem with passage prairies, the females anyway, is they don't tame down quickly, and they don't reclaim after the molt quickly, and you pretty much need to fly them on the razors edge weight wise. Left out overnight they quickly revert to their wild selves. Don't think for one second that they'll behave like a freshly trapped redtail, that's the danger with flying redtails - you have a certain set of expectations that you assume all passage birds will behave in a similar manner and they don't. With a passage prairie you will be flying the bird long before the bird is any kind of tame, because if you're not, you'll be months down the road. Passage tiercels are different, mine was tame as a kitten after a few weeks, and several others that I've seen or heard about have been just like that one, tame to the point of food begging like an imprint.

Paul: I think you have hit on a very important note. Peoples' expectations (that are usually based upon others' experiences or other species behavior. Also the expectation that species, or at least genders of a species will act alike).

I think it is often risky to compare because rarely are the bird's experiences or environment similar. How I raise a species as an imprint or a passage (even following a similar "program" can be enough of a difference from another falconer's. Combine that with the fact there are variances in "personalities" within a species and even within siblings. The results could vary greatly. This is part of the excitement of falconry and training.

I am currently flying a hard imprint mhh,8x intermewed. He usually takes a jack a day. He will fly with any human but no birds,dogs,horses,etc. His only problem is an occasional odd over molt. By the way I trapped a pfp on holloween. Warren