Apache - 2011 Imprint Male Goshawk

[Lee Slikkers]

Too funny...

Yeah, my bad for starting the hijack...

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[sevristh]

This is the cat feeder I use. It has 2 compartment that flip up. It works well. I use it with some of our other raptors mounted upside down so the food falls down to the floor when it opens.

Jeff,

That's the same type feeder I used with my eyass gos. I got burned once when the batteries ran out though (bird went hungry for 8 hours while I was at work). Make sure you check or replace them regularly.

[rocgwp]

50 Days

Same general routine with Apache. I went to check on him this afternoon and he flew down to my feet and sat on his elbows waiting to be fed. I CRed and handed him some tidbits, I then sat a quail down in front of him and cut it up and handed him pieces while he sat on his elbows. He definitely sees me as a parent and not as a sibling at this point.

Feed me please...


Waiting patiently to be fed with a quail in front of him...

[rocgwp]

55 days ~810g

I had to go out of town this weekend. Apache spent the weekend in his big flight chamber. I set up the cat feeder to feed him and had another falconer restock it for me.

I was concerned about Apache switching from seeing me as a parent to seeing me as a sibling while I was gone. When I showed up to pick him up he was as friendly as ever. At the next feeding, I saw a little bit of him turning his back to me with a quail wing. I only CRed and rewarded him when he faced me and was demonstrating calm relaxed posture. By the end of the feeding, everything was back to normal.

I hope to get his backpack installed this week. He is ready to begin some following lessons.

[allredone]

Looking great Jeff. I think you're the Texas guy that Steve L. talks about. I'm following this thread with some mix of envy and enthusiasm.

[hcmcelroy]

Jeff,

Interesting that your male began to demonstrate some withdrawal. Were you away more than two days?

Harry.

[rocgwp]

It didn't surprise me too much that he was set back some while I was away. I was gone Thursday-Sunday morning, so he ate ~6 meals away from me. It wasn't a major set back either, just the very beginning symptoms of the change in the nature of our relationship. At this stage in his development he would be stealing food from nest mates and playing aggressively with them. Who ever was most hungry would get the food. I am working hard to avoid him playing those games with me and for him to maintain seeing me as the parent.

Steve L. had warned me to be careful when I returned since it was possible for his viewpoint to switch while I was gone. He said especially around the penning time it could result in a pretty violent reaction (face grabbing). I am hoping to avoid the aggression, but I do expect to see it at some point. When/If it pops up, we will refocus it away from me and keep going...

This bird has been tons of fun so far. He rides unhooded in his dog kennel really well (~15 miles to and from work). He lays down inside it and doesn't bounce around. That has made it nice transporting him. I will introduce him to a hood sometime this fall once he is going in the field.

He was 799g this morning and not interested in eating a lot. Since he had food available to him all the time over the weekend, it may take him a day or so to adjust back to eating when it it available.

I definitely have been surprised at how playful Apache is. He's like a puppy. I love to watch him "kill" things and toss them in the air with his beak to catch and "kill" it again.

[ikcus]

I definitely have been surprised at how playful Apache is. He's like a puppy. I love to watch him "kill" things and toss them in the air with his beak to catch and "kill" it again.

My female Gos does the same thing, and yes, it is a blast to watch.
I hope you continue to play the parent role. You have come so far doing an excellent job.

[RTJim]

Jeff,

That's the same type feeder I used with my eyass gos. I got burned once when the batteries ran out though (bird went hungry for 8 hours while I was at work). Make sure you check or replace them regularly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This feeder was a real blessing on my eyass NA male Gos. It really broke the fact of direct knowing where the feed came from. To note it is better to not be obvious to let the gos see you pick it up and place it down. I used a sheet of choroplast to hid the changing of the feeder. I kept my gos in the house from May till Oct. It is also nice to start using the feeder outside as the gos always saw the feeder there when placing outside to weather etc........jm

[rocgwp]

Not sure if you have followed the whole thread, but I am hand feeding my gos. I am only using the feeder as a back up if I can't feed for some reason. There is no reason for me to hide me stocking the feeder since normally he gets his meals directly from my finger tips.

[hcmcelroy]

Jeff,

Being away so long it is good that he didn't react more strongly. He must be a nice one. A Cooper's would have reacted with withdrawal I would guess. I'm still hand feeding mine and he remains quite easy to handle and he has not been left alone.

Harry.

[rocgwp]

58 days

Apache is progressing great right now.

He is riding the fist and I have restrained his jesses on the fist with no issues. I am getting him to jump to the fist and tossing tibdits for him to chase and catch. He understands the lure. I am still rewarding clam behaviors. He knows he can make me come feed him by plucking and he caches to a tire.

Hopefully by this weekend I'll have a transmitter on him and will begin taking him outside of the flight chamber and letting him explore and get experience following and playing. I'll use a lure pole to introduce some prey items (squirrels, crows, etc...) that he can gain experience on. I'll toss pigeons for him and let him have fun. When done I'll call him to the lure and feed him on his tire. I'm hoping to get this step in before his dispersal instincts kick in.

Here he is caching to his tire:

[allredone]

Man nice looking bird Jeff! Sounds like you are combining great genes and great training. Should be a mega fun bird to hawk!

[rocgwp]

59 days

With all the talk about giant hoods I realized Apace hadn't been in one yet. He's ridden in the dog crate a lot, but not sitting on a perch in a giant hood. I brought him home today in his giant hood with no issue. I use an abs giant hood made by ling with a light and fan.

Apache is getting a small meal this evening with the hopes of turning him loose for his first 'walk about' with me tomorrow. It'll have to be done early since it will be over 90 degrees by mid morning.

[rocgwp]

Here some pics from tonight...792g

[hcmcelroy]

Great pictures Jeff. Those must be rolled jesses?

If so what do you think about them?

I started using them 2 years ago.

Harry.

[rocgwp]

60 Days - 772g

This morning was Apache's first 'walk about'. He spent the night indoors in the giant hood last night with no problems at all. We woke up early in order to hit the field before it got too hot. The field I chose is a 40 acre septic treatment field that is used for hay. It has trees interspersed throughout for him to test his flight abilities and I don't have to worry about poison ivy like I would in the surrounding tree line. This is also where his flight chamber is located.

I parked the truck, put on his telemetry took off the jesses, set him on the truck and waited. After about 10 minutes of playing around the truck he finally flew up to a tree and made a fool of himself trying to land. He spent about 20 minutes playing in the tree hopping branch to branch and improving his landing skills. He finally got brave enough to fly to another tree. When he left the first tree, it seemed like every songbird in the county was following him with disgust.

I sat on the tailgate of the truck listening to an audiobook, eating breakfast, and enjoying the beautiful morning. After a while, Apache decided he was tired of the little birds harassing him and began to chase them from time to time. At one point he left a tree flew up over the tree tops, circled twice and stooped the tree. My favorite moment was when he turned the tables on a scissortail. The scissortail was chasing him as he flew tree to tree. On one pass he pushed off with the scissortail right on him. He stalled just enough to let the scissortail pass him and then he tried to turn on the gas and get to him. The scissortail was gone quickly, but it was fun to see him make attempts and to be learning.

After 2 hours out playing, I figure it was time to bring him in. I blew the feeding whistle (which he's heard hundreds of times over the past month) and swung the lure. He pushed off and was on his way. For some reason he kept flaring off and wouldn't come all the way in. I thought about it and figured it might be the tall grass (I've seen that issue before with other birds). I moved to a small patch of bare ground, repeated the process and he came all the way in with no issue. I had a quail wing on the lure. I clicked and treated him on the lure a few times and then stepped him up to the fist. I carried him to the big dog kennel and he hopped in with some food. I then drove him back to his flight chamber and handfed him his remaining meal on the tire.

All in all, it was a great morning...

Here are the pics:

[rocgwp]

62 Days

Not a lot of training this weekend, we had family in. I was able to bring Apache in tonight while we had 14 peoe over. He sat on the fist silent with no bates while people touched him and walked all around. I couldn't have been more pleased with his attitude.

Hoping for a 'walk about' in the morning...

[Flynn]

Good detailed read Jeff,
Any chance of a video clip of the clicker training ?

Yours Jim.

[rocgwp]

63 days...810g

Apache appears to be hard penned at this point. I am now moving into the next phase of training with him. The goal is walk abouts in the morning and training sessions in the evening.

My first order of business is to get him hungry by increasing his activity level and fitness. He now works for every tidbit he gets. I am starting with rewarding bating so I can put it on cue. I fully expect each session to get more intense as he gets hungrier and it won't surprise me to see aggression. From there we will transition to Yo-yo's and restrained pursuits.

On a side note...I think it is a matter of time until Apache tips his deck feathers. He spends all day sitting in his water bowl leaning back on his tail. The feathers are constantly being bent as he leans on them.

[rocgwp]

65 days

Had a great training session this evening with Apache. I was able to do restrained pursuits and reward bating until his wings were drooping. He understands RP's, but hasn't fully grasped the controlled bate yet.

[hcmcelroy]

Jeff,

Home Depot carries a black plastic mixing pan for cement in two sizes. The small one fits my gos well and it is only $5.35. Would that size reduce the pressure on the train?

Harry.

[goshawkr]

Jeff,

Home Depot carries a black plastic mixing pan for cement in two sizes. The small one fits my gos well and it is only $5.35. Would that size reduce the pressure on the train?

Harry.

I have found that the bottom 6 inches cut out of an old plastic 55 gallon barrel makes an excellent bath pan. Its nice and deep to make bathing easy, and the HDPE plastic that its made from is super easy to scrub clean. This last point is important with breeding chamber birds where the bath pan may need to go several weeks between cleanings to avoid disturbing the birds. Its also wide and deep enough to be very easy on the tail feathers of a goshawk.

[goshawks00]

Geoff, I have I am still using after twenty years , they are great.
Now a couple of useful hints:

Only use the solid end for water pans, use the end with the bung for nesting bowls for your breeders.

Pick up some old garden hose that someone tossed out. Split it lengthwise, and "liquid nails" it to the edge of the pan. It will save possible foot issues when they stand on the edge.

Now then the center of the barrel.... Cut them in 10-12" widths. Take them and bury them anywhere you have root producing plants... Place them around the plant. It will stop them from becoming invasive and over taking you garden. Works great on any herb/flower/ivy etc that propagates through root travel.

[goshawkr]

Now then the center of the barrel.... Cut them in 10-12" widths. Take them and bury them anywhere you have root producing plants... Place them around the plant. It will stop them from becoming invasive and over taking you garden. Works great on any herb/flower/ivy etc that propagates through root travel.

Thats a great tip. Pitty that I just tossed some of those middle bits out.

[hcmcelroy]

Jeoff & Barry,

Great idea you could bath an eagle...

Harry.

[rocgwp]

67 days - 785g

Apache had a great walk about this morning (best yet). He was up for about an hour and a half. He chased small birds several times and is getting much stronger and maneuverable. My favorite moment was watching him chase a squirrel that tried to make a break for it to the tree line. He hit the squirrel twice before it got to a tree and raced above him. I tossed a Texas Pioneer pigeon for him and he played with it for 20 minutes. He would catch it, release it, chase it on foot until it flushed, recatch it, and repeat. I finally picked the exhausted pigeon up and called an exhausted goshawk down to the lure. He bated a couple times before I could get him to the truck. This may be his last walk about for that reason. I will start hood training him in a couple weeks. Until then I don't want any negative association at the end of the walk about. We'll keep working toward putting bating on cue and doing rp's.

[rocgwp]

Thanks for the water pan suggestions! Those are great ideas. I had been setting his bath pan on bricks to elevate it, but I purchased a mortar mixing tub from Lowes yesterday that should help.

This has been a great learning experience so far...

[hcmcelroy]

Jeff,

Keep the updates rolling. Most interesting!!!

I'm especially interested in how you hood train.

My boy was 59 yesterday and beginning to withdraw so I'm feeding a bit less in the last meal of the day. He appears hungry this morning so I'll toss a sparrow in the mew again and see how he is going.

Harry.

[Lee Slikkers]

Jeff,

Keep the updates rolling. Most interesting!!!

I'm especially interested in how you hood train.

My boy was 59 yesterday and beginning to withdraw so I'm feeding a bit less in the last meal of the day. He appears hungry this morning so I'll toss a sparrow in the mew again and see how he is going.

Harry.

Harry, is he in the mew full time now or still in the house with you?

[hcmcelroy]

Lee,

Quixote is in the mew/flight until the temp begins to cook then in these two rooms. I take him back out at about 6:30. All he knows is play, play, play.

Harry.

[rocgwp]

69 days

Apache is progressing in his training. He is beginning to understand that I am rewarding him for bating, but I don't have it on cue yet. Restrained pursuits have been REALLY useful thus far. I am been able to make him hungry by increasing the exercise instead of decreasing the food at this point.

The biggest lifesaver to this point has been the fact that he uses plucking as a way to cue me to feed him. On the days when I'm in a hurry and need to feed him quickly, I can walk in and toss down a quail wing. I hold the quail in plain sight in my hand. He grabs the wing and plucks, I then CR and hand him a piece of the quail in my hand. I repeat this for 8 or so rewards and then I can jackpot him with the whole quail. If I have time, I will walk out and wait for him to pluck the quail. I CR and then walk back in cut off a piece and hand it to him. I then just leave it with him. He eats what he wants and caches the rest in his tire. I can show up later and pick up the quail out of the tire if I want him to be hungrier at the next feeding. It takes me about 10 minutes to feed him like this and has been a lifesaver at maintaing the right attitude when I'm in a hurry.

Most of the time he is working for meal doing RP's and bates.

[PeteJ]

That weight sure seems immense for a tiercel Gos. I could see if it was the dead of below zero winter, but its obviously not. I know guys that have flown females in that weight range, particularly right at the beginning of the season like this when its hot.

[rocgwp]

He may be big or he could just be fat at this point. Note that he is not out hawking yet. He responds to the lure and I'm comfortable with doing walk abouts, but I don't feel comfortable putting him in a situation where I'd need instantaneous lure response yet (i.e. flying him on crows, grackles, and starlings in town).

I am using his hunger motivation to get training sessions going. He can eat as much as he wants, he just has to work for it. When he stops working, the food stops (unless I'm in a hurry and leave a quail as described previously). So at this point he is somewhat self regulating his own weight. The increase in exercise has definitely had an effect on his hunger.

The first couple of days it was a little difficult to get the ball rolling. He had a couple meals where he only got 1 or 2 tidbits because he wasn't interested. After that, he has caught on and this morning he ate most of a skinned quail cut up into about 35 or so tidbits as he did restrained pursuits. My guess is he will eat 25 or so tidbits tonight. I am not doing any form of weight control at this point. I'm just trying to work his tail off to get him into shape, increase his hunger level so he will work more, and keep his head screwed on straight.

It will be interesting to see what weight he flies at.

[allredone]

The weight doesn't seem that unusual to me. I had 2 tiercels in 2009 that were on tame hack catching birds at around 800 grams. Not bragging I just think it's a result of different methods and maybe genes. One of them caught it's first wild bird at 840g and the other just under 800. I think Jeff's Apache bird may actually be bigger than either of those Wisconsin birds but they were on tame hack 10 hours a day and were witnessed doing tail chases on dove above the forest canopy and other serious work outs. Their weights dropped considerably around this time without dieting. I think the robust weight Jeff is flying this bird at is possibly due to great genetics from Barry and a different training philosophy with imprints. Sound's like your bird is a real peach Jeff. You have so much to look forward to with him. I'm very envious.

Just curious. Can you have your big stand on a straight ruler and measure the feet for talon tip to talon tip? That would mean something to me about size. Very curious.