I hope everyone keeps in mind that falconry is only one of many legitimate user groups that can benefit from the propagation of eagles. We aren't the only ones this might effect. I personally hope that anyone who decides to comment, does so in a positive way for all the other user groups also.
the consequence of conscience, is that you'll be left somewhere......... swinging in the air.
Well, that depends on your perspective I guess.
If the feds keep micromanaging and tightening up the take of eagles in depredation areas for falconry purposes, I would imagine American eagle falconers would be looking to acquire captive bred birds for falconry purposes. Currently, captive bred eagles are the only source of eagles for falconry purposes in Europe. Not that is related in any way, but I thought I’d just bring that up.
That’s what falconry birds have to do with this. Will captive produced Golden Eagles be a potential source of birds to American eagle falconers if acquiring them from the wild becomes virtually impossible? Furthermore, I think the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is well aware of this. It will be interesting to see how all this pans out.
That is true. However, it depends on the extent of the regulations and who it affects. I may be stepping out on a limb here, so please forgive me if I’m mistaken but zoos and Native American breeding aviaries may be exempt from eagle breeding regulations. Zoos have been exempt and have been breeding eagles for decades. At least one Native American aviary is breeding Golden Eagles right now.
So, the $64 question is who will these eagle breeding regulations affect if many of the other interests may already be exempt?
Some of the language in the Federal Register referencing RIN-1018-AX78 is misleading and just plain incorrect. It’s subtle, but wrong just the same.
Dan McCarron
John 3: 16
Michael Beran, NAFA Southeastern Director "If it is to be, then it is up to me!"
Am I missing something or are they simply trying to replace the "Special Use Permit - Abatement Using Raptors" with a new one called an "Abatement Permit" with the same exact requirements and regulations?
Ron N1WT Vermont
Its not quite that simple, but close.
The special use permit issued for abatement with raptors is being replaced with a specific permit for abatement. That part is exactly correct.
However, at the moment there are not any abatement regulations at all - just memos and policy. So part of the creation of an abatement permit is the creation of a whole new set of regulations to govern that activity.
This will make the abatement activities more universal across teh country, and less subject to the whims of the administrating officials.
Geoff Hirschi - "It is better to have lightning in the fist than thunder in the mouth"
Custom made Tail Saver Perches - http://www.myrthwood.com/TieEmHigh/
Falconers, rehabbers, abatement permittees, education permittees, Native Americans, zoos. Anyone else who is legally allowed to posses eagles. Even though some may or may not already be exempt, they still stand to benefit from it being legal across the board.
On another note.... The comment period has only been out one day, and there's already several people on other venues voicing restrictive views and ideas that they think should be applied. Why the hell is it so hard for people to want less regs??
the consequence of conscience, is that you'll be left somewhere......... swinging in the air.
Dave Hampton
http://www.falconryconservancy.org/
"Wars begin where you will, but they do not end where you please." Niccolo Machiavelli
The person isn't here to defend himself, so I won't put it out there. Check your email though for more details.......
the consequence of conscience, is that you'll be left somewhere......... swinging in the air.
Dave, it's on a private group forum. We can't cross-post. It's just typical falconers and their opinions on how others should do falconry as they think is best. If you thought falconers were bad about that...you should see eagle falconers!
Dave Hampton
http://www.falconryconservancy.org/
"Wars begin where you will, but they do not end where you please." Niccolo Machiavelli
Hi Bryan:
Am I missing something? Could you PM me and bring me up to speed if possible?
I'm for simple regs that protect the eagle resource, are enforceable, and are fair. I have always thought that was a safe and firmly grounded premise. I'm wondering these days, however, if I need my head examined and if I'm looking at things properly.
I don't know what the big deal is with eagles. I have spent so much time and energy trying to keep our legal depredation areas open here. I would like to see properly licensed and qualified falconers get Golden Eagles from the wild for falconry purposes.
PM me if you can.
Best,
Dan
Dan McCarron
John 3: 16
There may be a simple reason for that. Some people think that if we have more bureaucracy, more micromanagement, and more restrictive regulations, then we as falconers will appease the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and keep the wolf away from the door.
I’d like to point out that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service must be feeling pretty good these days. They are basically an autonomous federal agency, made up of non-elected bureaucrats with a huge amount of regulatory power, and they basically answer to no one.
Please forgive me for lamenting and screaming from the rooftops, but the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in their infinite wisdom, does not want private individuals possessing eagles for falconry purposes. They will continue to promote that agenda until they succeed or until the American public stops them.
Even though the breeding regulations concerning eagles are up for public comment, I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that they have already made their mind up when it comes to breeding eagles. Golden Eagles are a common species in North America. They have never been endangered or threatened at the federal level. Yet the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is using the Eagle Act to abuse their management authority, power and control.
The writing’s on the wall. It’s almost too late folks.
I’d like to close by sharing something that may validate my suspicions. I have come to the conclusion that us getting eagle depredation areas opened up for falconry take over 15 years ago may have been an accident. It was a fluke. I don’t think the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service ever intended people to get eagles out of the wild for falconry purposes. They have been trying like mad to repair that chink in their administrative armor ever since. Even though the Eagle Act says we can, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is trying to close a door that wasn’t supposed to be opened. They’re smarter now. And here we have the possibility of private individuals being allowed to breed eagles up for public comment.
Dan McCarron
John 3: 16
the consequence of conscience, is that you'll be left somewhere......... swinging in the air.
I think you are right on the money about this, at least in many cases. I do however, think that something else is at work. In same cases in concert with the cause you mentioned, and in same cases as a completely seperate source of motivation.
There is an odd aspect of human nature that I dont really fully understand, but that seems to be very pervasive. I have seen in accross a wide spectrum of minority groups that I am involved with, and falconers hit the pattern to a "T". Actually, falconers are some of the worst I have ever seen at this - especially US falconers that were licensed after the federal regulations went in place in the 70's.
The crux of it comes down to an "Us" vs "Them" mentality. I think this is rooted in the days when we lived in small villiages competeing with those who lived in other small villiages for resources, which is of course our natural state of existence. We are absolutely wired at some very basic level to view those who we agree with as allies, and those who we disagree with as foes, and often this boils out very intensely.
To bring this basic aspect of human nature into focus on the current topic, there is a strong tendancy among "post 70's" U.S. falconers to view the way they want to practice falconry (or propagation, or whatever) as "right", and to get very worked up about anyone who does it in a way they disagree with. And the regulations are a very convenient hammer that can be used to impose their view of "right" and "wrong" onto the way other falconers practice.
What utterly baffles me is that these same people fail to understand that as they are wrapping that rope of regulation on their fellow falconers they are tying the same noose about their own heads, and cutting off their own air. We should all be pressing HARD for as much freedom as possible, on all fronts. The only tenable reason for restrciting that freedom are absolute matters of public safety and matters of biological sustainablity.
And there is a thrid aspect to this, that is not completely seperate from either the motivation Dan mentioned, or the "US" vs "Them" dynamic. Restrictive regulations create an elitism. Those choice few who are willing to jump through the inane hoops to become a falconer (or propagotr, or eagle propagtor) can think of themselves as very special, because few are willing to do it. Naturally, they prefer thinking that few are ABLE to do it, but the reality of the matter is most sane people who have an interest in these activities look at the legal hurdles and legal risks for running afoul of the regs and would rather invest their energy elsewhere. Some of those falconers who were behind authoring the first round of federal regulations have stated that part of the reason why they made them so restrictive was to maintain this elitism.
I was watching very closely while you, and Tom, and Lee and a handful of others cracked open that door. I think its very safe to say the Service didnt intend for it to happen, but at the same time it wasnt an accident. It was cracked open by a few poltically saavy eagle falconers, and despite a few other eagle falconers trying to make themselve look good to the Service by tattling on what you were up to.
I think your right on the money - they may well have been stewing and plotting at how to get that door closed again. There is certainly more going on than meets the eye. I am not a conspiracy theory sorta guy...and I am certainly not paranoid. But there is most definately something going on behind the scene that we are not meant to see. I feel a bit like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz wondering whats behind the curtain.
I do want to take a step back here though. The Service does NOT have to reopen the comments about breeding eagles. When the new Propagation regulations were proposed in '06(?) and placed on the register for comment, breeding of golden eagles was a part of things then. The Service then determined sometime between then and when the final rules were published this year that allowing the breeding of eagles under raptor propagation permits was more than they wanted to deal with. They had absolutely NO need to rexamine the issue. They could have simply considered the matter settled. So why open it for comment?
George Allen is a good guy who really cares about our community. I have no doubt about that at all. I got the impression from a few conversations with him that he really dosnt see eagles for falconry being a big deal. He is, however, placed in the middle of the maelstorm, and forced to work with elements of the FWS who take a more dim view of falconry and falconers. Some of these, no doubt, are either veterans of the Operation Falcon days or the protege's of those veterans with the same attitudes and the same misconceptions of falconers. The last time I talked to him, he very sadly indicated that he had to conceed on some points on the regulations to get things through, and was hopeful that we could make strides the next time the are examined. Politics is, and always has been, a game of compromise.
Maybe the FWS is considering allowing the captive breeding of eagles to help relieve the preassure to keep access to depreating eagles open. Maybe they are just considering it because its a good idea. Who knows...
Eagles are absolutely a bit more dangerous to handle than your run of the mill raptor. However, there is no biological reason to treat them any differently. A bit of extra caution is warrented to make sure that those who handle them are not putting the public at risk, and then its just a hawk. Thats all it should be. Thats all it should be in the regs - falconry, breeding, and education. For that matter, eagles could make a great way to haze canadian geese in abatement activities I would think.
Anyway, thats all I have time to post for now. Time to climb down the fire escape to make sure I am not followed.....
Geoff Hirschi - "It is better to have lightning in the fist than thunder in the mouth"
Custom made Tail Saver Perches - http://www.myrthwood.com/TieEmHigh/
Eagles abating geese...probably just a dream but not a bad one! What a visual that one is.
Dave Hampton
http://www.falconryconservancy.org/
"Wars begin where you will, but they do not end where you please." Niccolo Machiavelli
Absolutely fantastic post Geoff.
I think the crux of this is: Aside from suing the FWS or getting into the political game at the federal level, what can we do? This comes from above George Allen without question. We have him as our contact, but this obviously isn't up to him. So who is making these calls and how do we get their attention?
Who's got the money and time to take them to trial?
or
How do we get the falconry community together to send letters and appropriately get what is rightfully ours through political channels?
-Jeff"You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life." --Marco Simoncelli
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)