Imprinting on Another Species

[NWFlorida]

New here, so sorry if any of my questions sound stupid.

I understand that generally the term "imprint" refers to birds that have been imprinted on humans. Has anyone ever tried imprinting a bird to another species of bird in order to achieve specific behaviors (example: imprinting a goshawk to a Harris hawk to make it more sociable, share food, etc)? For example, by adding a goshawk egg to a Harris clutch so the bird doesn't know it's not its own offspring?

I ask because Apprentices can't have hawks that have been imprinted on humans, but I wonder if it would be possible to make a bird that friendly through other methods.

It works on other intelligent species, such as pigs and dogs, because many of their behaviors are learned rather than instinctual. And some other bird species do hide their eggs in other birds' nests so the other birds will raise their chicks for them. I think it could work with hawks as well, but I'm not an expert, obviously.

[kitana]

It's been done, but not for the reasons you mention. Mainly for creating hybrids of two different species down the line.

Sadly many apprentices and beginners mistake "imprint" as being friendly birds. It's absolutely not the case. Imprints simply don't fear humans, they are or aren't "friendly" depending on their individual inclinations, but imprinting them doesn't make them friendly. It can even make them extremely aggressive toward humans, as they are not inhibited by fear anymore. Hence the reason why apprentices shouldn't have access to imprinted birds early on...

[sharptail]

Is your question about cross imprinting inspired because you want to circumvent the law as it pertains to apprentices in your state? If any potential apprentice approched me with such a plan and wanted me to sponsor them, I would not be so inclined. What is not to your liking about the choices for raptors and their age limitations, for beginners where you live? Do you believe that no imprints for apprentices does not serve good purpose?

I personally see a lot of merit in apprentices trapping a passager for their first bird, and I know that many others agree.

[RT-Angel Fire]

Hey bud, I like this thread. I think it's an interesting concept but I agree with Jeff 100%. You wont regret trapping your first bird.

[Tom Smith]

Is your question about cross imprinting inspired because you want to circumvent the law as it pertains to apprentices in your state? If any potential apprentice approched me with such a plan and wanted me to sponsor them, I would not be so inclined. What is not to your liking about the choices for raptors and their age limitations, for beginners where you live? Do you believe that no imprints for apprentices does not serve good purpose?

I personally see a lot of merit in apprentices trapping a passager for their first bird, and I know that many others agree.

I agree

[NWFlorida]

It's been done, but not for the reasons you mention. Mainly for creating hybrids of two different species down the line.

Sadly many apprentices and beginners mistake "imprint" as being friendly birds. It's absolutely not the case. Imprints simply don't fear humans, they are or aren't "friendly" depending on their individual inclinations, but imprinting them doesn't make them friendly. It can even make them extremely aggressive toward humans, as they are not inhibited by fear anymore. Hence the reason why apprentices shouldn't have access to imprinted birds early on...

I see. So in that case it would be sexual imprinting. I understand many people like the novelty of hybrid animals but to me that just seems like a waste. From what I understand, the offspring are generally infertile?

As far as the lack of fear part, I think I understand a lot better. I also had the misimpression that it made the bird friendly. Thanks for clearing that up!

Is your question about cross imprinting inspired because you want to circumvent the law as it pertains to apprentices in your state? If any potential apprentice approched me with such a plan and wanted me to sponsor them, I would not be so inclined. What is not to your liking about the choices for raptors and their age limitations, for beginners where you live? Do you believe that no imprints for apprentices does not serve good purpose?

I personally see a lot of merit in apprentices trapping a passager for their first bird, and I know that many others agree.

I have no interest in circumventing any laws. I simply want to have a bird that's as manageable as possible. Both the Harris and the Gos are interesting to me because the Harris is highly social and the Goshawk has a really wide range of prey items. I just wanted to see if I could get both out of one bird.

[colelkhunter]

I have no interest in circumventing any laws. I simply want to have a bird that's as manageable as possible. Both the Harris and the Gos are interesting to me because the Harris is highly social and the Goshawk has a really wide range of prey items. I just wanted to see if I could get both out of one bird.

Not trying to be disrespectful here, I think this is inexperience talking. You can take a wide range of prey items with a regular old redtail hawk. Take the time and effort and they are capable of taking anything you can think of.

[FredFogg]

Both the Harris and the Gos are interesting to me because the Harris is highly social and the Goshawk has a really wide range of prey items. I just wanted to see if I could get both out of one bird.

The Harris has just a wide range of prey items as the goshawk. Living in Florida and with the prey base you have there and being that it would be your first bird, you would be better off with a red-tail or a Harris, not a goshawk. You have the rest of your life to fly any other type of bird. Learn a little and get some experience and then try different birds if you like.

[NWFlorida]

The Harris has just a wide range of prey items as the goshawk. Living in Florida and with the prey base you have there and being that it would be your first bird, you would be better off with a red-tail or a Harris, not a goshawk. You have the rest of your life to fly any other type of bird. Learn a little and get some experience and then try different birds if you like.

Yeah, the more I research the more I like the Harris. I don't know if it would be kinda mean to fly it by itself though. Seems kind of like hunting a wolf without its pack. Are they okay hunting by themselves? I mean I assume I won't be doing absolutely every hunt with my sponsor right? Or will I be expected to?

[hcmcelroy]

Coral,
Are you asking about a domestically bred or passage HH? Socalizing the two is quite different.
Good to have you on here and the fact that you are concerned about socializing...

Harry.

[bobpayne]

Great questions, a Harris is a great choice fora hunting partner, Ive had mine for eight seaons through Coulsons they make outstanding hawks. What otters posted I agree I lovepassage hawks. and after getting to know Fred you will know why his sponsor only invited him Hawking occasionally sorry Fred Fred if I
Let the cat from the bag,

[FredFogg]

and after getting to know Fred you will know why his sponsor only invited him Hawking occasionally sorry Fred Fred if I
Let the cat from the bag,

Wow, was that the reason! Gee and I thought he liked me! LOL

[MomoHawk]

Why are you more comfortable with a captive bred bird?

[NWFlorida]

Why are you more comfortable with a captive bred bird?

It's an illogical emotional reaction. *shrug* I'd feel a little bad for taking anything out of the wild where it "belongs". I'd get over it, though. I know it's not bad for them the way it would be bad to take some other species out of the wild. I was just saying.

Also, if anyone is interested, these folks did something similar to what I mentioned, training Gyrfalcons with Harrises:

http://www.falconscanada.com/site/Fa...rris_Hawk.html

[FredFogg]

It's an illogical emotional reaction. *shrug* I'd feel a little bad for taking anything out of the wild where it "belongs". I'd get over it, though. I know it's not bad for them the way it would be bad to take some other species out of the wild. I was just saying.

You do realize that falconers are only allowed to take first year birds out of the wild and that 70 percent and higher of first year birds don't make it in the wild. So the likely hood of you trapping a bird that wouldn't have made it, getting it to kill regularly and eventually releasing it into the wild again gives it a better chance of survival than if you hadn't taken it from the wild.

[hcmcelroy]

Coral,

Good to see you are still with us but may I ask if you are interested in taking game with a hawk? As far as we can tell that is their mission on this earth.
We don't trap adults because they are said to be the breeding stock. But Harris's that are on the wing are called passage even thou they don't migrate because we're probably not smart enough to figure another label for them. On the other hand they do float about into uncharted territory and some researchers wonder if they are migrating. Or is that like the so called partial albino?
Good show in taming your iguana. Do you still have it?
Socializing the domestically raised Harris's requires some time and effort...I'll spare you the details for now.

Harry.

[coopershawk]

Birds of prey like to hunt and kill. I imagine many behavioral problems can be solved with this simple thought in mind. A redtail can be as tame as a dog, provided you hunt with it at every given opportunity. They will develop a deep relationship, and one easily forged, if you let them do what they need to do: population control. Get your hands red. That is essentially what it's about.