Disguising your face

[JRedig]

I think it is important to note that Steve Layman works with accipiters and specifically goshawks mainly.

That's not even close, sorry. He has quite the menagerie at the moment with a wide spread variety of birds and animals at his house. I don't know of a species he hasn't worked with that's common in falconry.

[goshawkr]

I think it is important to note that Steve Layman works with accipiters and specifically goshawks mainly. There are a lot of things you can get away with when dealing with a RT or a HH that won't fly so to speak when dealing with an accipiter.

With that being said, a buddy of mine is friends with Steve Layman and he taught me most of Steve Layman's techniques and I use them with my RTs. Sure it may be a little extra work but in the end I think it is worth it. Besides, it will be a good experience for me once I move into the accipiters.

Jeremy

The Imprint into Accipiter article was developed while he was working with Prairie falcons. He also usually has a flock of apprentices that he is teaching, and during the time he wrote that article he was guiding them to try his ideas on redtails.

He has specialized in goshawks for the last 13 years, and that is exclusively what he has flown for falconry with the exception of one coopers hawk.

But he has flown almost everything available for falconry, and trained many that are not used for falconry for others.

[goshawkr]

The Imprint into Accipiter article was developed while he was working with Prairie falcons. He also usually has a flock of apprentices that he is teaching, and during the time he wrote that article he was guiding them to try his ideas on redtails.

He has specialized in goshawks for the last 13 years, and that is exclusively what he has flown for falconry with the exception of one coopers hawk.

But he has flown almost everything available for falconry, and trained many that are not used for falconry for others.

I also ment to mention that when Layman was coming up with these ideas, he was unsure if an accipiter could even be "switched" to imprint like behavior. Since that time, they have proven to work on accipiters although no one has yet taken a passage tiercel and gotten it be a volontary semen donor yet.

[jkruer01]

Yes, I understand he has experience with most species. I did not mean to imply in anyway that he only has experience with goshawks or accipiters. The point I was trying to make was that RTs allow you to get away with a lot more than many other species of birds. Just because Layman's techniques may seem like overkill with a RT (to some) doesn't mean you won't see benefits of using them with a RT (which I do).

Thanks!
Jeremy

[Steveo]

I know this is quite the old thread, but I had a thought while reading: when taking steps to avoid undesirable trauma learning (hiding face, etc.), would it also be a good idea to trap a bird using an atypical prey item or a prey item you don't intend to hunt? For example, if trapping a kessie to hunt sparrows and starlings, using rodents or insects to do the trapping. I would think a bird trapped on sparrows would develop an aversion to them.

Taking the idea another step forward ,would it be a good idea to trap with something you don't want the bird to hunt? Again, using a kessie as an example, would trapping on a pile of grasshoppers create an aversion to them, and therefore increase the odds that the bird would focus on other prey items?

Has anyone experimented with this?

[Minkenry]

I know this topic is about birds of prey and associating a bad experience with the falconer, but let me chime in here with an off topic example to confirm the belief that it helps to avoid associating a bad experience with the animal's new handler.

When taming mink I have often had the internal battle of how to put a harness on a mink with out holding them down. With a falcon you can avoid the negative association by not letting them see you when you cast them to put on their equipment. With a mink, however, they see more with their nose than they do their eyes,and there is nothing you can do to block their sense of sell. So throughout the years I've struggled to find a way to put a harness on a mink in the least stressful way possible to avoid that negative first impression. Years later when I finally found a way to do it (I created a little device they run through and it basically puts the harness on for me) I found that the mink did tame down MUCH sooner than the ones that had to be stressed out to put the harness on.

Avoiding that negative association could save me a week or two in the training/taming process with a new mink, and save me a few unexpected bites when I decided to take the glove off.

[BestBeagler]

I know this topic is about birds of prey and associating a bad experience with the falconer, but let me chime in here with an off topic example to confirm the belief that it helps to avoid associating a bad experience with the animal's new handler.

When taming mink I have often had the internal battle of how to put a harness on a mink with out holding them down. With a falcon you can avoid the negative association by not letting them see you when you cast them to put on their equipment. With a mink, however, they see more with their nose than they do their eyes,and there is nothing you can do to block their sense of sell. So throughout the years I've struggled to find a way to put a harness on a mink in the least stressful way possible to avoid that negative first impression. Years later when I finally found a way to do it (I created a little device they run through and it basically puts the harness on for me) I found that the mink did tame down MUCH sooner than the ones that had to be stressed out to put the harness on.

Avoiding that negative association could save me a week or two in the training/taming process with a new mink, and save me a few unexpected bites when I decided to take the glove off.

That's cool. I am sure it can make a difference with some individuals maybe to all but to a different extent with each.

[goshawkr]

I know this topic is about birds of prey and associating a bad experience with the falconer, but let me chime in here with an off topic example to confirm the belief that it helps to avoid associating a bad experience with the animal's new handler.

With a mink, however, they see more with their nose than they do their eyes,and there is nothing you can do to block their sense of sell. .

I don't want to belabor a non topic tangent, so will be very brief, but if you think there is nothing you can do to block the sense of smell your just not being creative.

As an example, horses being prey animals themselves, are very sensitive to the smell of blood and raw meat and dead things. An old cowboy trick that is extremely effective to get a deer or elk carcass loaded onto a pack horse is to quickly and gently smear a lot of fresh blood just outside their nostril. Then all the horse can smell is blood, they calm down quickly, and you can load them up. By the time the smell in their nose disappates they are fine with whats on their back.

I have pulled similar tricks with wild (as in barely tame) ferrets when starting to work with them. Not using blood of course. It is pretty difficult to shut downt he sense of smell through something like a hood, but its a cinch to overload it and make it irrelevant.

[wingnut]

I have trapped and trained a lot of passage hawks (RT's, Cooper's and Harris's). I have never covered any aspect on my body while approaching them on the trap, or later and the vast majorithy of these birds were on the wing in two weeks time. So, I really don't think it makes any difference at all.

In terms of trauma, here is a definition of the word that I feel is fairly accurate:

"an extremely distressing experience that causes severe emotional shock and may have long-lasting psychological effects"

If this were the case, there is no way (IMO) that we would be able to get passage hawks flying free (and returning) in a couple of weeks; it would take months, perhaps years.

Bill Boni

I totaly agree. They turn out fine either way. It's like having a whisle on your car bumper to scare off elephants on the road. The people who have them have never hit an elephant. They really work well. The people who mask up and hide their face have birds that work out most of the time and so do the ones who don't. To each his own.

[BestBeagler]

The way I see it is that it's worth my effort to cover my face or hands (if I remember to do it). The rewards could be great. Maybe it doesn't do anything but it doesn't take much effort to take the precaution. It's like using pine needles to help ward of asper or help cure it. Has it been proven to work? Maybe not but it is an anti fungal and you bet it's worth the effort to find some pine and use it on my birds. Smells good to!

[thebooster99]

Isaac, the pine needles have been scientifically proven to kill asper spores.

[longwinger2010]

I actually have a trapping disguise...it's a orange yellow blue dreadlock winter cap and a black stocking head mask....an orange/yellow tye dye shirt and bright yellow gloves !

I keep it in a bag in the closet and never take it out unless I am out trapping.