Hooding your bird

[Mandragen]

There might be another discussion about this somewhere, so if there is please point me in that direction and forgive my redundancy. I come from a very new school of training background. Most of my training experience also comes with training animals that are much bigger and stronger than a person. Not only are they bigger and stronger, but when you are training marine mammals you are also in their element. The ability to manipulate them for different circumstances is minimal. With my background being what it is, there are many things within falconry that I sometimes have a hard time getting my head around.

When an action isn't done often with an individual, there is definitely a need to manipulate the situation so that things are done safely and stress is eliminated, or minimal. There is definitely a need to give me medication to put my big butt to sleep if I were ever to need an operation. However, if it's something that is done often, should we not as trainers do our best to desense that action?

I guess there are many different instances where this is my questions, but the one that pops up is in using a hood. Unless it is a situation that isn't common, what is the need to hood the bird? I understand that the hood should be trained for these rare occasions which it could help keep stress to a minimum, I'm not trying to say the hood is all bad or shouldn't be trained.

[FredFogg]

I am sure someone else can answer this better than I but I will give my opinion. As an animal trainer and if you have worked with birds, you should know that most birds (daytime hunters) become dormant in the dark. They relax, calm down, pull up a foot and mostly sleep in the dark. The hood serves the purpose of putting a bird in the dark, per say. This reduces stress, keeps the bird calm and also allows the falconer to do things needed while the bird is hooded (coping, equipment changes or adjustments, medical purposes, etc.). Probably the biggest advantage of hooding a bird is during transportation to the field. These are a few of the things that come to mind for me. As I said, I am sure others have a better explanation.

[Saluqi]

So are you asking why hood your bird if the bird is not being stressed by the current situation? The answer is there is no reason, but are you sure what the situation will be in five minutes?

There are many reasons to hood a bird, in my mind the top reason is for the bird's own safety and well being. Raptors are visual animals, so being able to control what they see helps the falconer eliminate any possible negative experiences. Since our ability to understand how a bird interprets what it sees is limited it is better to use caution in new or stressful situations. In any given situation it may not be possible to desensitize a bird, using any of a number of training methods, so the hood is a tool that eliminates the possibility of a negative outcome. Take driving in a vehicle for example, your bird might be fine sitting on perch as you drive down the road, but then what happens if a big truck roars by? Or you get stuck in a traffic jam and suddenly the leisurely drive becomes something else?

The hood is a tool that all birds should be trained to, and used more than people think is necessary.

[PeteJ]

Probably should ask anyone that has a bird at flying weight and being driven to the field where potential normal prey is seen along the way. The bird will use up all of its available energy bating at the passing prey. Thing about birds is that they are highly reactive to stimuli which is one of the reasons that they are generally readily trained compared to some other life forms. But, they do not normally have much ability to turn this reactivity off or tune it out, it isn't in their nature. You will thank them profusely for their reactive nature when you get out there and are hawking with one. Because trust me, when the conditions are uncomfortable for you and your bird is in a tree being calm and non-reactive to anything you are offering it...you'll be cursing profusely!
It can be a completely different story with some species when they are not at flying weight. Some will sit comfortably and ride across town through traffic etc., while other species (accipiters for example) would probably bate themselves to death in fear due to their very intolerant nature when above their flying weight and caught in slow traffic with full visual disclosure.

[Mandragen]

I am sure someone else can answer this better than I but I will give my opinion. As an animal trainer and if you have worked with birds, you should know that most birds (daytime hunters) become dormant in the dark. They relax, calm down, pull up a foot and mostly sleep in the dark. The hood serves the purpose of putting a bird in the dark, per say. This reduces stress, keeps the bird calm and also allows the falconer to do things needed while the bird is hooded (coping, equipment changes or adjustments, medical purposes, etc.). Probably the biggest advantage of hooding a bird is during transportation to the field. These are a few of the things that come to mind for me. As I said, I am sure others have a better explanation.

I have worked with a few birds but mostly the tropical versions. I do understand the concept of the hood and why it work, in most cases. I guess I say most cases because put a hood on mine and it spends the next few hours trying to get it off, pretty funny actually. However, I feel that hooding my bird at this point is more stressful than not, which is something I am working on because I know how important it is. I think coping, minor equipment changes/adjustments, and most minor routine medical purposes should be trained, any lack of desense in these areas seems to me a lack of effort on the trainer. Do we put ourselves under every time we cut our nails, brush our teeth, visit the dentist for a clean up, change our clothes, or visit the doctor for a routine exam? Do we do the same for our dogs and cats, or other animals that are in our care, kids included? Other than the car ride, which I don't think you should have a bird just sitting there unhooded, why do we press so much on which side people should stand on when walking, or why do people hood the bird from the car to the woods?

[Mandragen]

So are you asking why hood your bird if the bird is not being stressed by the current situation? The answer is there is no reason, but are you sure what the situation will be in five minutes?

There are many reasons to hood a bird, in my mind the top reason is for the bird's own safety and well being. Raptors are visual animals, so being able to control what they see helps the falconer eliminate any possible negative experiences. Since our ability to understand how a bird interprets what it sees is limited it is better to use caution in new or stressful situations. In any given situation it may not be possible to desensitize a bird, using any of a number of training methods, so the hood is a tool that eliminates the possibility of a negative outcome. Take driving in a vehicle for example, your bird might be fine sitting on perch as you drive down the road, but then what happens if a big truck roars by? Or you get stuck in a traffic jam and suddenly the leisurely drive becomes something else?

The hood is a tool that all birds should be trained to, and used more than people think is necessary.

Correct you are unsure what the situation will be in five minutes, but it's our job to be aware as much as possible to try and anticipate what might happen an deal with that. I mean you can't predict the future, but that's not a reason to be scared of it. We are visual animals, most animals are visual animals, although not to the extent that a bird might be. When working with other birds, they do tend to notice things that we do not, but it is possible to learn to shape your behavior to be more aware of these things and to adjust your training to help overcome it. I had one bird that just freaked over planes that were unnoticable most of the time to me, but we got over it eventually, which to me seems much more productive than to put a hood on that particular birds because I couldn't control when a plane might fly over head.

I agree that there are things that just can't seem to be desensitized. Sometimes you just run into things you can't get around with certain individuals, and yes this is a great time for a hood. I think that having any animal free in a vehicle is a hazard that isn't worth the risk.

[PeteJ]

If it is spending hours trying to get the hood off then probably that isn't funny, but probably the hood is not fitting well. As for where to stand when around someone else when they are fist hunting their bird? Most lookie loos do not keep up appropriately to be on the backside of your bird and the bird will notice it and will be distracted by that person. If they could talk this sort of behavior (looking back over there shoulder at the laggard) they would say "Keep up or go home!" As such it is better to be off to the far side of the hawk with the falconer in between, less distracting there and the hawk will treat you like you don't matter one bit to them.

[Mandragen]

Probably should ask anyone that has a bird at flying weight and being driven to the field where potential normal prey is seen along the way. The bird will use up all of its available energy bating at the passing prey. Thing about birds is that they are highly reactive to stimuli which is one of the reasons that they are generally readily trained compared to some other life forms. But, they do not normally have much ability to turn this reactivity off or tune it out, it isn't in their nature. You will thank them profusely for their reactive nature when you get out there and are hawking with one. Because trust me, when the conditions are uncomfortable for you and your bird is in a tree being calm and non-reactive to anything you are offering it...you'll be cursing profusely!
It can be a completely different story with some species when they are not at flying weight. Some will sit comfortably and ride across town through traffic etc., while other species (accipiters for example) would probably bate themselves to death in fear due to their very intolerant nature when above their flying weight and caught in slow traffic with full visual disclosure.

Again, I don't want anyone to set any animal in a vehicle going down the road and it not be safely restrained for everyone's safety. I would suggest that most animals are reactive to stimuli, just depends on what that stimuli is, and it's also different between individuals. What other animals are not readily trained? Are you sure they don't tune it out or over react because they don't get desensed properly? I see so much emphasis on reinforcing the bird for hunting, no wonder that's what it wants to get out and do, it baits because it's not getting anything for sitting on the glove. The bird is trained that you ain't gettin' nothin' here (lol like that NC slang), so why would it not try to get out there as soon as it can see? Does anyone have this problem but still reinforce heavily/regularly while they sit in the car (which you shouldn't do) or hang out on the glove?

[Mandragen]

If it is spending hours trying to get the hood off then probably that isn't funny, but probably the hood is not fitting well. As for where to stand when around someone else when they are fist hunting their bird? Most lookie loos do not keep up appropriately to be on the backside of your bird and the bird will notice it and will be distracted by that person. If they could talk this sort of behavior (looking back over there shoulder at the laggard) they would say "Keep up or go home!" As such it is better to be off to the far side of the hawk with the falconer in between, less distracting there and the hawk will treat you like you don't matter one bit to them.

Hours was an exageration, but it was pretty funny. I don't put it on and annoy her with it for my own entertainment, I'm not mean. I had my sponsor check it out and he hasn't seen anything wrong with the hood, like I said we are working on it. I will check into the fitting again just to make sure that it's right, thank you for pointing this out. I walk with her on the fist occasionally and I have a friend that also goes with us nine times out of ten. My friend is also a professional animal trainer with experience in marine mammals, birds, primates, etc. Sometimes he will walk right next to the hawk, maybe 2-3 feet off her back and she doesn't seem to care, I don't even hold her jesses.

[Saluqi]

Correct you are unsure what the situation will be in five minutes, but it's our job to be aware as much as possible to try and anticipate what might happen an deal with that. I mean you can't predict the future, but that's not a reason to be scared of it. We are visual animals, most animals are visual animals, although not to the extent that a bird might be. When working with other birds, they do tend to notice things that we do not, but it is possible to learn to shape your behavior to be more aware of these things and to adjust your training to help overcome it. I had one bird that just freaked over planes that were unnoticable most of the time to me, but we got over it eventually, which to me seems much more productive than to put a hood on that particular birds because I couldn't control when a plane might fly over head.

I agree that there are things that just can't seem to be desensitized. Sometimes you just run into things you can't get around with certain individuals, and yes this is a great time for a hood. I think that having any animal free in a vehicle is a hazard that isn't worth the risk.

Hi Oliver,

You asked why hood a bird, Pete and I gave you some reasons why hooding is used and you think it would be better to train the bird not to react to these stimuli. I contend that it's a better use of my time and resources to have a bird that is solid to the hood, rather then attempt to prepare the bird not to react to an almost infinite number of circumstances that might arise at home, in transit, and in the field. As a falconer, and not an animal trainer, I like to focus all of my training on activities that lead to the taking of wild game with my bird, and the hood is a tool allows me to do so - I simply do not have the time or desire to train for every eventuality, it's that simple I'm lazy.

[PeteJ]

Hours was an exageration, but it was pretty funny. I don't put it on and annoy her with it for my own entertainment, I'm not mean. I had my sponsor check it out and he hasn't seen anything wrong with the hood, like I said we are working on it. I will check into the fitting again just to make sure that it's right, thank you for pointing this out. I walk with her on the fist occasionally and I have a friend that also goes with us nine times out of ten. My friend is also a professional animal trainer with experience in marine mammals, birds, primates, etc. Sometimes he will walk right next to the hawk, maybe 2-3 feet off her back and she doesn't seem to care, I don't even hold her jesses.

Can I assume this is a Redtail? They often are not nearly as reactive as some of the falcons and accipiters which is why they are favored for the newly initiated.
Another thing to keep in mind, sometimes, as annoying as it might be, it can be beneficial and actually safer for the bird to be somewhat leery and reactive. There are situations out in the field where being totally at ease will get them killed...for instance by a gunner that needs to 'plink' something, or perhaps an unknown dog, or cat, or car, or train, etc.. A good bit of falcony is based on balancing tameness with just enough edge of the wild to allow the bird to exhibit the behaviors that we find so fascinating about them. If we just wanted a nice looking bird to hang out with, we'd all have parrots right?

[Mandragen]

Hi Oliver,

You asked why hood a bird, Pete and I gave you some reasons why hooding is used and you think it would be better to train the bird not to react to these stimuli. I contend that it's a better use of my time and resources to have a bird that is solid to the hood, rather then attempt to prepare the bird not to react to an almost infinite number of circumstances that might arise at home, in transit, and in the field. As a falconer, and not an animal trainer, I like to focus all of my training on activities that lead to the taking of wild game with my bird, and the hood is a tool allows me to do so - I simply do not have the time or desire to train for every eventuality, it's that simple I'm lazy.

I'm sorry Paul, I hope I didn't offend you in anyway. I appreciate all your guys' feed back and the reason I started the thread/debate was to learn from those of you that know more about this than I do. I am running into all sorts of things within this hobby/sport/lifestyle, which I respect deeply, that just contridict what I have been taught.

I am one of the laziest people that I know, there isn't anyway anyone can be worse, lol. I just think training these things can be done rather easily and it's all about balance of reinforcement. Training is really to make life easier and not more difficult. We had birds that would present wings for inspection, or feet for coping the feet. Our dolphins would turn upside down and hold their breath, presenting their tail flukes, as long as it took to draw blood. I've seen a dolphin slide up on a stretcher and allow 10+ people to pick it up and walk it around. One of our dolphins needed extra water each day, and in the middle of the show she would allow me to stick a tube all the way down to her stomach and funnel water (they don't do the drinking thing). Sometimes these behaviors don't come easy, sometimes they do, but you never know until you try. It really only takes a bit of reinforcement for doing them.

[Mandragen]

Can I assume this is a Redtail? They often are not nearly as reactive as some of the falcons and accipiters which is why they are favored for the newly initiated.
Another thing to keep in mind, sometimes, as annoying as it might be, it can be beneficial and actually safer for the bird to be somewhat leery and reactive. There are situations out in the field where being totally at ease will get them killed...for instance by a gunner that needs to 'plink' something, or perhaps an unknown dog, or cat, or car, or train, etc.. A good bit of falcony is based on balancing tameness with just enough edge of the wild to allow the bird to exhibit the behaviors that we find so fascinating about them. If we just wanted a nice looking bird to hang out with, we'd all have parrots right?

Yes, it is a RT! This is an excellent point, and maybe it will be different with other birds in the future, I'm excited to figure that out.

This post was exactly what I was looking for, sometimes you don't know until you read it. I can respect this thought and it makes perfect sense. Thank you!

[FredFogg]

Hi Oliver,

You asked why hood a bird, Pete and I gave you some reasons why hooding is used and you think it would be better to train the bird not to react to these stimuli. I contend that it's a better use of my time and resources to have a bird that is solid to the hood, rather then attempt to prepare the bird not to react to an almost infinite number of circumstances that might arise at home, in transit, and in the field. As a falconer, and not an animal trainer, I like to focus all of my training on activities that lead to the taking of wild game with my bird, and the hood is a tool allows me to do so - I simply do not have the time or desire to train for every eventuality, it's that simple I'm lazy.

Paul, you are not lazy, you are just using common sense. Oliver is looking at this from an animal trainers perspective. He is used to training animals. In reality, we aren't training our raptors to do what we want, we are training them to adapt to us and what will be happening when we take them to the field and what will happen in the field and to allow us to participate with them. Sure, there are some that train their raptors to turn in a circle for a tidbit and to follow a laser beam, but is that for falconry or for their amusement. I am like you, I just want to have a relationship with my birds that allows me to participate with them in the field while they catch game. Give Oliver a couple years of actually doing falconry and it will be much more clearer to him.

Oh yeah, Oliver, I never hooded my birds the first 3 years I was a falconer. I never had any problems, things worked just fine for me. But the reason I didn't was I was told you didn't need to hood a red-tail or kestrel. I decided I wanted to learn how to hood a bird and the next red-tail I got I hooded. I will never have another bird that I won't hood. You say you are lazy, well, hooding a bird just makes it that much easier for the falconer.

[Mandragen]

Paul, you are not lazy, you are just using common sense. Oliver is looking at this from an animal trainers perspective. He is used to training animals. In reality, we aren't training our raptors to do what we want, we are training them to adapt to us and what will be happening when we take them to the field and what will happen in the field and to allow us to participate with them. Sure, there are some that train their raptors to turn in a circle for a tidbit and to follow a laser beam, but is that for falconry or for their amusement. I am like you, I just want to have a relationship with my birds that allows me to participate with them in the field while they catch game. Give Oliver a couple years of actually doing falconry and it will be much more clearer to him.

Thanks Fred, you guys do have more experience than I, and that does not go ignored. I can't help but see the world through animal training eyes, it's what I know and it's my passion. I do my best to try and remember that that might not be the correct way all that time. It's why I asked here to get a different side and opinion. It is quite possible that after a few years I will have a much different point of view, much like your own.

[Nighthawk]

Excellant thread for a new guy like me, Thanks

[Chris Proctor]

There are certain people here that never hood their birds with anything other than putting them inside a giant hood. The actual hood with a bird trained right and exposed to the hood each day "correctly" is one of the best tools a falconer has with him in the field (or anywhere). Looking through the birds eyes (like you mentioned), they see things that they accept and things they don't. They don't see what's in the middle very often. If the bird doesn't accept it, it wants to fly away from it. If you are out in the field, in the garage, in the backyard or weighing your bird in your room and something comes into their field of view that they don't accept, you get to make things worse by not letting them escape the situation (excessive baiting). The hood lets them escape and calms them down. If you don't hood them in these situations, all you are doing is re-enforcing that you are a bad guy in "their eyes" by keeping them in a mode of panic.

Your bird scratching at the hood constantly is most likely an issue caused by you not providing a quality hood for the bird. This could be due to rubbing on the lips and cere, too close to the eyes, pressure, feather pinching and a number of other issues. When you teach a bird to accept the hood, you must provide a quality hood, otherwise you are suffering the bird through something possibly painful.

If you are all thumbs when it comes to hooding, then you need someone who knows how to hood a bird correctly to show you.

[outhawkn]

Excellent points Fred,Paul,Pete, and Chris......
I agree that I'm there to hunt, not spend countless hours teaching my bird to accept every situation.

[Jason123]

Say your in the field with your red-tail and you keep working downwind. You end up a lot further from your truck then you antisipated. Now you call the bird down to end the day because no game is out today, but you have a 20 min walk back to the car into 25 mph winds that came out of nowwhere. You can struggle to hold your bird that is tryng to fly everywhere, walk backwards and use your body the shield from the wind, or with a 20min walk ahead slip on the hood and get back with an arm that doesn't feel like its been attatched to a kite in a hurricane. Just one example of many and thats with a red-tail now try it with a longwing which could be a walk a whole lot further then that.

[Mandragen]

These are all great points, and some things that I have not even thought about.

Chris, I've seen this type of behavior before from a cockatoo, so I can relate to that. We had one that was just stressed about everything, a hood would have probably benefited me then, lol. It seems as though the general consensus that the hood just doesn't fit right or isn't "quality". I will order another one immediately and see if I can't get a better one.

As far as behind infront of 25mph gusts 20min from the car, that sounds like a nightmare!

[passagejack]

As far as behind infront of 25mph gusts 20min from the car, that sounds like a nightmare!
__________________
If you think thats a nightmare then you are in for one wild ride my friend!
to falconry!

[NMHighPlains]

As far as behind infront of 25mph gusts 20min from the car, that sounds like a nightmare!

Happens a lot. My peregrine killed a pigeon well over a mile from the truck. I had to run out there because a golden eagle just lifted off the butte behind him. Then it was a mile walk back to the truck into headfirst 25 mph winds (I have a Weather Wizard on the house).

The hood is a tool. The birds know what when it comes off, there's food to be had. It's also pretty useful when you need to walk OUT to an area before letting the bird (long or short wing) go and don't want them bating or going up just yet. Hoods are essential when flying several birds on subsequent slips. When I flew 3 HH by myself, it was common for 1-2 birds to not participate in the kill. They got hooded and set on a bush to think about life while the working birds got fed. And so on....

Then, there's lots of times I _don't_ hood. I used to take my prairie/peregrine to school and leave her in the camper shell while I went to class (taught class, actually). She behaved and I frequently left her unhooded. I could put a small bath pan on the platform and she'd have a little bath and be all preened and ready to go come flying time. But before leaving the parking lot, I'd hood her.

[ericedw]

There might be another discussion about this somewhere, so if there is please point me in that direction and forgive my redundancy. I come from a very new school of training background. Most of my training experience also comes with training animals that are much bigger and stronger than a person. Not only are they bigger and stronger, but when you are training marine mammals you are also in their element. .

They are certainly bigger and stronger but they also can't fly away or leave the tank. Go trap a wild one and train it in the ocean

But seriously, I've trained and consulted a little on marine mamal training. And it's a huge advantage that you're operating in a VERY controled and consistent environment.

As far as the hood. It's an invaluable tool that most birds do not object to. And it's there for safety and to reduce the stress on the bird. There are times when an animal needs to be transported and very few of them do that well with it.

I did bird shows for years and when you would travel to a new venue you would spend days or weeks getting some of the birds to get comfortable with certain doorways, halls or even strange equipment. I wish I could have hooded parrots, storks, cranes and the rest. The hood is a wonderful tool that few birds object to once they are trained to it. Much like blinders on a horse it has a calming effect on the bird and makes the journey less stressful. (whether the journey is 100 miles or 100 feet)

It's not hard to train a red tail to the hood. Most falconers don't do enough "training" (I know I don't) to the hood, we get to the point of being able to get it on and that's about it. But I have had birds that I worked with more and at the approach of the hood would close the membrane over their eye and lean forward into the hood. I'm sure you could accomplish this with all birds if you wanted.

[Mandragen]

They are certainly bigger and stronger but they also can't fly away or leave the tank. Go trap a wild one and train it in the ocean

They can most certainly get away, or they could kill you. Some of the marine mammals I worked with were old enough that they were from the wild, and there are also places where they work with their animals in the ocean.

But seriously, I've trained and consulted a little on marine mamal training. And it's a huge advantage that you're operating in a VERY controled and consistent environment.

You are right about advantages of having certain situations being "controled", but I don't see it any different with these birds. There are some situations that are more controled and some that are not.

As far as the hood. It's an invaluable tool that most birds do not object to. And it's there for safety and to reduce the stress on the bird. There are times when an animal needs to be transported and very few of them do that well with it.

I agree 100%, transport is a huge stressor on most animals.

I did bird shows for years and when you would travel to a new venue you would spend days or weeks getting some of the birds to get comfortable with certain doorways, halls or even strange equipment. I wish I could have hooded parrots, storks, cranes and the rest. The hood is a wonderful tool that few birds object to once they are trained to it. Much like blinders on a horse it has a calming effect on the bird and makes the journey less stressful. (whether the journey is 100 miles or 100 feet)

Desense isn't easy, and sometimes seems impossible. I think maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to carry the hood over to other bird species.

It's not hard to train a red tail to the hood. Most falconers don't do enough "training" (I know I don't) to the hood, we get to the point of being able to get it on and that's about it. But I have had birds that I worked with more and at the approach of the hood would close the membrane over their eye and lean forward into the hood. I'm sure you could accomplish this with all birds if you wanted.

This is exactly the point I want to try and make it with any bird of mine. I'm shootin' for getting that darn thing to put the hood on itself!

[passagejack]

Not to sound rude but this topic seems to be a moot point????????
As most have stated it would be SO much less time consuming, easier and less stressful for the raptor if we took the time to properly hood train them. This way they could benefit in numerous ways. They could be in the field quicker, which is what its all about, as well as not associate the falconer with the negative experiances around it.

I personlly like a little fear of things in my falcons. I've seen and heard of raptors being killed by farmers dogs and cats other raptors as well as passing vehicles. If I had taken the time to "train" my birds to be numb to all of these negative things so that I would not have to hood it ,I would have a lot more dead raptors to speak of. I can not tell you how many times I have had a big falcon flight on huns end up a half mile away in a farm yard with strange dogs coming right at my falcon on its kill. If my falcon had been trained to fear nothing so that the hood was not needed then I would have lost alot of them to these common dangers! It is so much more benificial to the raptor and falconer to just hood train. Path of least resistance for me and the raptor.

Try training a fresh caught wild merlin or accipter without the use of the hood. You will soon have a freaked out bird with massive leg scale and feather damage! I could'nt imagine training my current passage prairie without one

[dirtwinger]

I am a big fan of my bird being well manned to anything that might distract from hunting in the field and anything that might stress it at home or on the way to the field. Having said that I use the hood a great deal too and it is not to be underestimated as an aid to desensitizing a bird to stressful stimulus.
Where the hood is very effective in this process is that you can tightly control the amount of stimulus the hawk is exposed to down to the second. Rather than just bulling through until the bird becomes oblivious after having endured much stress, it can be phased in gently anytime it becomes too much on goes the hood and the bird gets break. used correctly the hood is actually a kindness to a wild hawk. the goal in training and maintaining a raptor into your hunting partner is to do so in a subtle and minimally stressful manner. A well fitted hood used well is very much your friend in this and a hawk should accept the hood without issue if done right.
There is a reason the hood is still used in falconry after a couple of thousand years and that is because it works, as they say "if it aint broke then dont fix it".

[oldguy]

I'll step in this one. For me the first point of hooding is tradition. It is part of the artform.
If I were to take up another, say sculpting, I would learn to use every tool used.
The second point is stimulus reduction. Today I was able to fly Idaho's thriftiest redtail. He was finally at weight and attitude. I know a park nearby that is pretty much empty. Guess what's coming. I got set up and here comes a half dozen 7 or 8 yr old kids. SIGH. I asked them to please stay back and watch, which they did. "Wow, cool"! etc. I flew my bird the number of times I planned and motioned the now much larger group of kids closer.
As an ex-cop I'm a bit paranoid about kids and strangers, so we talked about what they had been told... But I digress. The little crowd grew larger as questions were answered. I quietly hooded my bird as I felt him tensing on my fist more and more. More questions of course, which I was able to answer with a calm bird on my glove.

The quiet little park turned into show and tell for what now looked like the entire first and second grades and parents. No bating, no stressed bird.
We were able to end the session on a positive note. A few decent flights to glove with instant response. He had a good bloody taste in his mouth and a bit of a crop. In my bird's mind, he got rewarded for doing as asked and there was nothing scary to mess it up.

That is why I hood my bird. Hope I made my point.

Good luck.

[Mandragen]

I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to say the hood is dumb, useless, or should be taken out of the equation all together. I enjoy learning and using new tools for training purposes. The best trainer is one with an open mind, willingness to learn, and one that can take critisizm. I've met many different types of trainers and everyone has their own unique style. When I see new types of training or new tools used by others it is important for me to understand them and their application thuroughly, anything less would be ignorant on my part, IMO.

The reasoning behind this thread was to get some more ideas, from a wider ranged audience, of the different situations hoods are needed. There have been many great examples already. This is my first bird, so things are new to me, and it's already been pointed out that red tails differ in behavior than other species. I think I've only seen one falcon flown in the two years that I've been around falconry. I've been out with many different people and birds, but most fly red tails in these parts.

[Mandragen]

I'll step in this one. For me the first point of hooding is tradition. It is part of the artform.
If I were to take up another, say sculpting, I would learn to use every tool used.
The second point is stimulus reduction. Today I was able to fly Idaho's thriftiest redtail. He was finally at weight and attitude. I know a park nearby that is pretty much empty. Guess what's coming. I got set up and here comes a half dozen 7 or 8 yr old kids. SIGH. I asked them to please stay back and watch, which they did. "Wow, cool"! etc. I flew my bird the number of times I planned and motioned the now much larger group of kids closer.
As an ex-cop I'm a bit paranoid about kids and strangers, so we talked about what they had been told... But I digress. The little crowd grew larger as questions were answered. I quietly hooded my bird as I felt him tensing on my fist more and more. More questions of course, which I was able to answer with a calm bird on my glove.

The quiet little park turned into show and tell for what now looked like the entire first and second grades and parents. No bating, no stressed bird.
We were able to end the session on a positive note. A few decent flights to glove with instant response. He had a good bloody taste in his mouth and a bit of a crop. In my bird's mind, he got rewarded for doing as asked and there was nothing scary to mess it up.

That is why I hood my bird. Hope I made my point.

Good luck.

lol, this is a situation that I am very familiar with. There was a bird I used to work with and we started training it to take pictures with guests at the facility. He was a great bird but a situation can become overwhelming quickly, not just for the bird. In this situation, without a hood, there are some tricks to helping the birds through, and in some cases it requires a premature exit. This is a spot where I think hoods could be good for tropical birds as well.

[Yeomanfalconer]

Good discussion. Relevant for me to think about due to a current challenge.

My imprint tiercel, anatum peregrine, who is just hardening up the last primaries from his first molt, has decided he doesn't want to be hooded. He is the "Artful Dodger" and seems quite proud of himself with his evasion efforts. I am waiting for those last vulnerable feathers to hard pen before I really press things. He "will" take the hood. He can not "win". With some birds you just have to persist (with an eye for harmful stress of course) It seems to be quite a game with some imprints. I won't even bring up eyas prairies that become hood shy. Whoops, I just did) I have had passage merlins become this way as well. Now that is a small, nimble target.

Last year, as a brown bird, he never was wild about being hooded but I could get it on him no problem. He would fuss and stomp for awhile, eventually settling down. He is such a tame little guy, I admit to getting soft and letting him travel in the car on longer rides bare-headed which he really seemed to enjoy.

Quite a contrast to the gyrkin I had at the same time who was probably one of the easiest falcons I have ever had to hood, which is saying something, with some passage tundra peregrines as comparisons. He would have ruined himself riding bare-headed but was a statue hooded for as long as needed, even overnight at meets, etc.

And yes, the hood is a good fit. I did not make this one. Anatum tiercels seem to be a little trickier to fit than peales tiercels for instance. Their heads are squarer, blockier. Most of my patterns weren't quite right, or maybe it is the molds. I do admire the work and innovation being done with hoods these days. Oldguy is right. The art of them is worth pursuing, even if their use is not so easy.

[passagejack]

Great post Dan!

Oliver its great you are asking questions and doing your homework.

[Martin Hollinshead]

Hi Oliver,
Has flying ‘out of the hood’ been mentioned? If it has and I’ve missed it – apologies.
There are several types of hawking where the bird is kept hooded until a good slip opportunity arises – which might take some time and walking. In my own case this involves flying a Harris at hares out of the hood: some hares will be too far; some not right due to the ground/terrain/wind; some may be in dangerous situations – and some simply the wrong animal for perhaps the novice hawk. The hood allows me to select slips carefully, remembering that a normally free-flown bird might not appreciate a lengthy search without being hooded.
Martin

[Mandragen]

Hi Oliver,
Has flying ‘out of the hood’ been mentioned? If it has and I’ve missed it – apologies.
There are several types of hawking where the bird is kept hooded until a good slip opportunity arises – which might take some time and walking. In my own case this involves flying a Harris at hares out of the hood: some hares will be too far; some not right due to the ground/terrain/wind; some may be in dangerous situations – and some simply the wrong animal for perhaps the novice hawk. The hood allows me to select slips carefully, remembering that a normally free-flown bird might not appreciate a lengthy search without being hooded.
Martin

I can see where this is helpful, but does it not take time to get the hood off once game as been spotted? Maybe it's just seconds that you are losing but what if you didn't have to keep the bird hooded. I am training my bird now that it shouldn't leave the glove unless I motion for it to do so. It's nothing big, just the slightest movement of the glove hand. Sort of like a dog is taught to point, wait, and not flush until given the S(d), or discriminative stimulus. I know that it sounds complicated or even impossible, but I think it can be done. Instead of the sight of game triggering the chase, while on the fist, it's the movement of the fist that gives the ok. My PRT is just 5 weeks or so off the trap, but she is catching on quick. Sometime we walk with her being free flown and sometimes we practice with her on the fist, but when and where is always up to me, not her.

Is there anyone that does this already with success?

[Martin Hollinshead]

I can see where this is helpful, but does it not take time to get the hood off once game as been spotted? Maybe it's just seconds that you are losing but what if you didn't have to keep the bird hooded. I am training my bird now that it shouldn't leave the glove unless I motion for it to do so. It's nothing big, just the slightest movement of the glove hand. Sort of like a dog is taught to point, wait, and not flush until given the S(d), or discriminative stimulus. I know that it sounds complicated or even impossible, but I think it can be done. Instead of the sight of game triggering the chase, while on the fist, it's the movement of the fist that gives the ok. My PRT is just 5 weeks or so off the trap, but she is catching on quick. Sometime we walk with her being free flown and sometimes we practice with her on the fist, but when and where is always up to me, not her.

Is there anyone that does this already with success?

Oliver,
The braces on the hood are loosened/opened enough to permit the hood’s immediate removal. Hawks trained to fly this way explode from the glove, the hood barely clear of their head. The fast removal tells the bird, ‘out there is a hare you can get up to’ and this promise has the already concentrated and fully focussed bird give absolutely everything.
Of course, this puts all the weight on the falconer: he has to get it right, has to assess hares/conditions correctly every time in what might be a split second. If he keeps getting it wrong, commitment goes out the window (which sort of takes us back to the thread on developing a motivated hawk, or ruining one). I will add that the preparation for this is done with lure flights out of the hood.
Another benefit of course, is that when group hawking, the bird doesn’t have to watch other hawks chase hares while she waits for her turn – another killer of motivation.
On your training to keep the bird sitting on the glove and ignoring quarry with a slight special movement, I cannot comment – other than to say I’d love to see it in operation.
Martin

[AK Rev]

I am training my bird now that it shouldn't leave the glove unless I motion for it to do so.

Your bird becomes aware of quarry many times before you do. That's the split second that makes the difference many times. If my bird only left when I told it to I would be missing about 1/2 of the slips and needlessly delaying most of the others. Just my take on it.

I like what Terence said about hooding...it's actually a kindness to the bird. Well put.