Hooding your bird

[owo9ja]

he picks at his gear. and actually just a nervous falconer. i tether him and worry he will end up entangled somehow in my absence. with the hood he stays out of trouble. but its been 3 weeks or so since i've had him and he fights me whenever i try to hood him that i worry he will associate me with the bad experience

[Tony James]

he picks at his gear. and actually just a nervous falconer. i tether him and worry he will end up entangled somehow in my absence. with the hood he stays out of trouble. but its been 3 weeks or so since i've had him and he fights me whenever i try to hood him that i worry he will associate me with the bad experience

Uwem,

without wishing to sound negative, I think you might need someone on hand to give you a little help and guidance.
What you're doing is not good, and more problems await if you continue as you are.

Regards,

Tony.

[owo9ja]

actually that was the advice i was given by a more experienced falconer who suggests I hood and tether the bird in the training stage. he does the same with his. thing is the bird has taken a greater dislike to it as he has warmed to me. i wanted to know what the experience of others was where a bird is responding to training but hates being hooded n the mews.

[Tony James]

actually that was the advice i was given by a more experienced falconer who suggests I hood and tether the bird in the training stage. he does the same with his. thing is the bird has taken a greater dislike to it as he has warmed to me. i wanted to know what the experience of others was where a bird is responding to training but hates being hooded n the mews.

It sounds as though your hawk is not made to the hood and is well on the way to being hoodshy, and whilst it's quite legitimate, even advisable to keep a hawk hooded in the early stages, the hood is not a device to be used long term to avoid restlessness in the mews or whilst weathering.
There are exceptions to every rule, but it sounds to me as though you need some help in making your hawk to the hood first and foremost, as with every passing day things are likely to become more difficult.
I do apologise if I'm misunderstanding the situation, and wish you the best of luck in your efforts.

Tony.

[footbound]

I would second what Tony said. Find Raul Ramerize's video on high level hooding and get started right now. Bring your comfort level up with regards to tethering by using the Lyman method if you haven't already. Braided jesses, braided extender, braided leash.

[murraym]

Michael, do you know if Raul posted the video here?

[owo9ja]

It sounds as though your hawk is not made to the hood and is well on the way to being hoodshy, and whilst it's quite legitimate, even advisable to keep a hawk hooded in the early stages, the hood is not a device to be used long term to avoid restlessness in the mews or whilst weathering.
There are exceptions to every rule, but it sounds to me as though you need some help in making your hawk to the hood first and foremost, as with every passing day things are likely to become more difficult.
I do apologise if I'm misunderstanding the situation, and wish you the best of luck in your efforts.

Tony.

not at all, you and others have been of great help

[owo9ja]

I would second what Tony said. Find Raul Ramerize's video on high level hooding and get started right now. Bring your comfort level up with regards to tethering by using the Lyman method if you haven't already. Braided jesses, braided extender, braided leash.

where can i find the video

[footbound]

I found it on an abatement site. I think it is American Abatement or google the key words. Another great way to learn proper falcon handling is to buy House of Grouse. Watch every move Steve makes, a true master in every respect.

[Falconer54]

All birds are different. I pretty much only hood my birds before I am going to fly them. Had some Coops that gave me problems, but when my birds won't let me hood them at home, they stay at home and don't fly or eat that day. I do not hood train birds, and try to only use the hood when I am going to fly them. Last year my bird would not let me pick her up with food earlier in the season, so she stayed home and did not fly those days. Within a month I could pick her up without food. I realize this isn't the same as hooding, but the concept is, if you want to fly and eat, YOU WILL LET ME PICK YOU UP AND HOOD YOU. I have a new Passage Prairie, and I will not hood her again until she is eating on the fist, however long that might be. I would not want to have sit around hooded for no reason if I was a bird. I have never hooded any birds during the moult. Main point is I only try to hood my birds when it is a beneficial or will be beneficial to them. That gives them the choice. Hooding in the field after flying is a different story. Had some friends with Gp's that would fight the hood in the field after flying. I watched them play games dodging, bating, then trying to slam the hood on the bird. Part of this conditioning is like a game, who will win, and the birds were a bit heavy, and honestly, acting like spoiled brats. All of these birds are now hooding properly with no more games, as they were given a choice. We have found a 100% effective way that may seem harsh to some, but works every time. Get into that later if needed. First and foremost, needs to be a decent fitting hood. Second, hood SHOULD only go on when it is going to be beneficial to the bird, of course there are circumstances or exceptions at times. Third, don't let them fool us, and get away with being a spoiled brat, as birds are quite intelligent. My new bird this year gave a me a few episodes in the beginning, but then nothing for over a month. Then coincidently, out in the field when she was at her heaviest weight one day, she bated from the hood. I know they say practice makes perfect, but don't know of any birds that just want a hood put on and off their head a hundred times just because. I know what works for my friends and I, is to give the bird a choice. Stand there and take the hood like a good little bird, or don't fly and eat. The birds figure it out pretty quickly. Maybe this isn't something that others like, or are in the position to do, but it seems to be effective.

[Flight]

Or even better some of you could show me how you manage to hood a bird sans depth perception without pissing it off.

LOL!!!! I think it's funny you should bring this up. Being a one eyed falconer myself I've actually never had trouble hooding. Then again the birds I've had practically put the hood on themselves, so maybe that's the secret...let them make up for any discrepancy in hood alignment. Lol!

As for this thread, hoods are great. Makes life easy, conditions the bird to hunt, look cool, and are "classic". I will always hood, no matter what species I fly. Better to have and not need, than to need and not have. Plus you know that Murphy is always lurking around waiting to enforce his screwed up law.

[thunderheartiii]

where can i find the video

I found it here: http://www.americanbirdabatementservice.com/

It is under "high level tidbiting 1 and 2"

[rkumetz]

LOL!!!! I think it's funny you should bring this up. Being a one eyed falconer myself I've actually never had trouble hooding. Then again the birds I've had practically put the hood on themselves, so maybe that's the secret...let them make up for any discrepancy in hood alignment. Lol!

As for this thread, hoods are great. Makes life easy, conditions the bird to hunt, look cool, and are "classic". I will always hood, no matter what species I fly. Better to have and not need, than to need and not have. Plus you know that Murphy is always lurking around waiting to enforce his screwed up law.

I didn't say that I don't HAVE a hood for my bird, I simply don't use them unless the bird needs to be cast or something like that. I have also found
that having a good LEFT eye and trying to do things with your RIGHT hand is a challenge. I couldn't shoot a bow or a gun worth $&*# until I realized that I had to do those things left "handed". That was long before an eye dominance test became the norm when teaching shooting sports.

I would honestly love to be good at hooding but simply not willing to piss off a bird by using it as a guinea pig for my own attempts at hand-eye coordination.

[Flight]

I didn't say that I don't HAVE a hood for my bird, I simply don't use them unless the bird needs to be cast or something like that. I have also found
that having a good LEFT eye and trying to do things with your RIGHT hand is a challenge. I couldn't shoot a bow or a gun worth $&*# until I realized that I had to do those things left "handed". That was long before an eye dominance test became the norm when teaching shooting sports.

I would honestly love to be good at hooding but simply not willing to piss off a bird by using it as a guinea pig for my own attempts at hand-eye coordination.

I hear ya' Ron, that second statement was just my general input towards this thread, not aimed at you at all. Yea I've had to relearn shooting, and archery left handed as well. Although I don't think eye dominance plays as much of a role in my falconry, maybe that's why it's my primary method of hunting. lol

[footbound]

I still want to start a sub group of one-eyed falconers on here.

[falcon56]

Just curious, does having one eye means ones falcon is twice as high or half as high as you think it is?

[footbound]

You already know I can't count. To answer your question Ray...yes.

[Toadstool]

Excellent thread. I didn't ever make my PMRT to the hood, I really wish I had when it wold have been fairly easy to do so (manning). Many of those long windy walks back to the truck with a bate happy bird, plus plenty of missed opportunities due to his impatience with being stuck hunting off the fist instead of free flying as preferred.

[melissasparrots]

I watched the video on high level tidbitting with the aplomado falcon. That kind of training makes sense to me because I've used it a lot with my parrots. I had one bird trained so well to accept her nails getting filed that even when medical issues caused some pretty major fear based behavior problems, I could still do her nails without issue. So, my question about using that technique with a passage red tail is this: as seen on the video, would a person need to worry about associating the free hand with food? I don't like it when I need to text my hapkido instructor and say I need to miss class this week because I can't stop bleeding. Having a passage redtail bound to my free hand does not sound like a lot of fun. However, I do like that kind of training in that once you get it, it tends to pretty solid in my experience with other birds. Is there a way to do high level tid bitting without free hand association? I'm guess it would a convenient way to train the bird to accept its breast being touched to assess condition. My current bird still likes to bite, which makes that kind of handling a hassle. Would like to be able to to specifically mark and train certain behaviors without accidentally training in other behaviors like footiness toward the free hand.

Melissa

[Tasha55403]

I use a bamboo skewer, works great

[melissasparrots]

I use a bamboo skewer, works great

Thanks for the response. I was thinking a hemostat, but a skewer sounds quicker. I'm just trying to think of how you'd go about setting it up so that you aren't fishing around trying to skewer a tidbit and giving the bird time to demonstrate other behaviors. I suppose you set it up before getting the hawk out so that you already have a plate of tidbits hidden behind you. Possibly with several already skewered? Or a bunch already skewered hidden in your pocket?

[JRedig]

Use a light with a foot switch to control stimulus.

Also, why would the bird end up bound to your free hand from high level tidbitting? Hang on to the jesses better!!!

[melissasparrots]

Use a light with a foot switch to control stimulus.

Also, why would the bird end up bound to your free hand from high level tidbitting? Hang on to the jesses better!!!

I was more concerned about the bird generalizing the knowledge that food comes from the free hand, and then starting to watch for it and do a quick grab in situations that allow enough freedom. Such as seeing me reach into my pocket for a tidbit to have the bird jump up from the lure in the field and deciding to jump to the free hand. Would make for a little more of a tricky maneuver trying to get a tidbit into the gloved hand if the bird knows that first it passes to the free hand from that pocket. Or even if I reach behind my back to get a tidbit, anticipating that move and jumping for the free hand if I do a similar movement.
Possibly I'm just picking the technique apart too much being a lowly apprentice. My parrots know cheese come from the refrigerator and if I have one loose in the house, I'm likely to end up with a bird on me when I open the fridge. Don't want to reach behind my back to scratch my shoulder and have a hawk coming out of a tree thinking its going to get something yummy because that same motion often gets a treat out of that free hand. I did have a couple times last year with the current bird where I accidentally made a motion with the glove that she interpreted as being about to be called and she was coming in when I didn't anticipate it. Not really a problem, but tended to put things to a halt momentarily.

[jal4470]

I was more concerned about the bird generalizing the knowledge that food comes from the free hand, and then starting to watch for it and do a quick grab in situations that allow enough freedom. Such as seeing me reach into my pocket for a tidbit to have the bird jump up from the lure in the field and deciding to jump to the free hand. Would make for a little more of a tricky maneuver trying to get a tidbit into the gloved hand if the bird knows that first it passes to the free hand from that pocket. Or even if I reach behind my back to get a tidbit, anticipating that move and jumping for the free hand if I do a similar movement.

If you are flying a redtail and this happens, in my experience it is because you over trained the bird. If you are spending a good deal of time training and keep the bird sharp you can be in for a world of hurt. If you keep the training limited to, don't fear me, come when I call, pay attention to me in the field you shouldn't have this problem. I have fed a number of redtails by hand, from head level and never had one grab at me. But I don't keep my birds hot and I don't train more than I have to to get by. If you do keep your bird hot and over train it, you won't be able to avoid it figuring out where the food is coming from.

[dbleyepatches]

I am also an apprentice and I have only flown two redtails, so take this for what it's worth. I found that if you want your passage redtail to hood well when you really need it (medical procedure, late catch a mile from your vehicle, etc...) then you had better hood the bird on a regular basis. Maybe it was my hood training, but when I stopped hooding my second bird for a week or two there was a noticeable difference in her willingness to accept the hood.

I know some falconers that do not hood their redtails and some of them fly great birds, but I am going to continue hooding mine.

[melissasparrots]

If you are flying a redtail and this happens, in my experience it is because you over trained the bird. If you are spending a good deal of time training and keep the bird sharp you can be in for a world of hurt. If you keep the training limited to, don't fear me, come when I call, pay attention to me in the field you shouldn't have this problem. I have fed a number of redtails by hand, from head level and never had one grab at me. But I don't keep my birds hot and I don't train more than I have to to get by. If you do keep your bird hot and over train it, you won't be able to avoid it figuring out where the food is coming from.

Yeah, I'm reasonably confident my last bird was over trained which didn't help much of anything. She was never aggressive to my free hand though. More so the face. Personally I'd rather be grabbed in the hand than the face any day. However, we did work through it and she eventually stopped that. However, I never let her see food in my free hand either, which is probably why she never went for it. It was suggested to me that I look into a strobe light for hood training and then I got side tract by this thread since this form of training is more familiar to me and there have been a few times I would have liked to use it as a fall back for daily handling like jess swap, breast/fatness assessment etc, but didn't know how to handle food with a raptor without accidentally training food related aggression that I'd likely regret later.

[jal4470]

So many of you proficient holders may already know this and think, yeah that's what we keep saying but I recently had a breakthrough in understanding how to hood train a bird and I figured I would share and see what other people thought.

The standard, old school advice for hood training a bird is to bring the hood up to the chest, then take it away, when that works bring the hood a little closer untill, incremental you can pop the hood on. This never worked for me and I couldn't figure out why. My birds would lean back, doge, bate, bite and generaly make my life hell.

My realization was the taking hood away was the reward for standing still. So now I show the hood to the bird and if the bird stands still, then I take it away. Next I bring it a little closer, wait till the bird stands still, then take it away. If the bird bates, I wait untill it regains the fist and stands still, then I take the hood away. As I progressively bring the hood closer ND closer the bird is learning the best way to deal with the pressure of the hood coming up is to stay still. Usually the first time ever the hood goes on, after after trapping, the bird dosn' doge, bate or lean back, because it has learned the best way to deal with the pressure of the hood coming up to its face is to stand still. This has worked well with the last two birds I have worked with, but that could be dumb luck.

Thoughts? Does this resonate with anyone else, or a I just grasping at straws? Thanks

[SOF]

So many of you proficient holders may already know this and think, yeah that's what we keep saying but I recently had a breakthrough in understanding how to hood train a bird and I figured I would share and see what other people thought.

The standard, old school advice for hood training a bird is to bring the hood up to the chest, then take it away, when that works bring the hood a little closer untill, incremental you can pop the hood on. This never worked for me and I couldn't figure out why. My birds would lean back, doge, bate, bite and generaly make my life hell.

My realization was the taking hood away was the reward for standing still. So now I show the hood to the bird and if the bird stands still, then I take it away. Next I bring it a little closer, wait till the bird stands still, then take it away. If the bird bates, I wait untill it regains the fist and stands still, then I take the hood away. As I progressively bring the hood closer ND closer the bird is learning the best way to deal with the pressure of the hood coming up is to stay still. Usually the first time ever the hood goes on, after after trapping, the bird dosn' doge, bate or lean back, because it has learned the best way to deal with the pressure of the hood coming up to its face is to stand still. This has worked well with the last two birds I have worked with, but that could be dumb luck.

Thoughts? Does this resonate with anyone else, or a I just grasping at straws? Thanks

That is the way I think of it, and it follows operant conditioning behaviour theory. Another way that I thought to train my falcon is to give it the biggest reward it can get: food. Here's how I do it.
Put the hood on and present some food to the hawk(but don't let him feel it at his feet or he will bite blindly looking for food=bad manners). Then take the hood off and let him eat. Eventually he will pair the hood with the food and the hood will mean to him; Food is on the way!

I've done this with my new tiercel this year and hooding him is a breeze... But I prefer to use some hoods over others as I have noticed he is calmer with better fitting hoods, and hoods that just 'sit' on his head without being tightened.

Anyways, hope that helps.

[SOF]

I would second what Tony said. Find Raul Ramerize's video on high level hooding and get started right now. Bring your comfort level up with regards to tethering by using the Lyman method if you haven't already. Braided jesses, braided extender, braided leash.

"Layman method"...LOL...