Hooding your bird

[Mandragen]

There might be another discussion about this somewhere, so if there is please point me in that direction and forgive my redundancy. I come from a very new school of training background. Most of my training experience also comes with training animals that are much bigger and stronger than a person. Not only are they bigger and stronger, but when you are training marine mammals you are also in their element. The ability to manipulate them for different circumstances is minimal. With my background being what it is, there are many things within falconry that I sometimes have a hard time getting my head around.

When an action isn't done often with an individual, there is definitely a need to manipulate the situation so that things are done safely and stress is eliminated, or minimal. There is definitely a need to give me medication to put my big butt to sleep if I were ever to need an operation. However, if it's something that is done often, should we not as trainers do our best to desense that action?

I guess there are many different instances where this is my questions, but the one that pops up is in using a hood. Unless it is a situation that isn't common, what is the need to hood the bird? I understand that the hood should be trained for these rare occasions which it could help keep stress to a minimum, I'm not trying to say the hood is all bad or shouldn't be trained.

[FredFogg]

I am sure someone else can answer this better than I but I will give my opinion. As an animal trainer and if you have worked with birds, you should know that most birds (daytime hunters) become dormant in the dark. They relax, calm down, pull up a foot and mostly sleep in the dark. The hood serves the purpose of putting a bird in the dark, per say. This reduces stress, keeps the bird calm and also allows the falconer to do things needed while the bird is hooded (coping, equipment changes or adjustments, medical purposes, etc.). Probably the biggest advantage of hooding a bird is during transportation to the field. These are a few of the things that come to mind for me. As I said, I am sure others have a better explanation.

[Mandragen]

I am sure someone else can answer this better than I but I will give my opinion. As an animal trainer and if you have worked with birds, you should know that most birds (daytime hunters) become dormant in the dark. They relax, calm down, pull up a foot and mostly sleep in the dark. The hood serves the purpose of putting a bird in the dark, per say. This reduces stress, keeps the bird calm and also allows the falconer to do things needed while the bird is hooded (coping, equipment changes or adjustments, medical purposes, etc.). Probably the biggest advantage of hooding a bird is during transportation to the field. These are a few of the things that come to mind for me. As I said, I am sure others have a better explanation.

I have worked with a few birds but mostly the tropical versions. I do understand the concept of the hood and why it work, in most cases. I guess I say most cases because put a hood on mine and it spends the next few hours trying to get it off, pretty funny actually. However, I feel that hooding my bird at this point is more stressful than not, which is something I am working on because I know how important it is. I think coping, minor equipment changes/adjustments, and most minor routine medical purposes should be trained, any lack of desense in these areas seems to me a lack of effort on the trainer. Do we put ourselves under every time we cut our nails, brush our teeth, visit the dentist for a clean up, change our clothes, or visit the doctor for a routine exam? Do we do the same for our dogs and cats, or other animals that are in our care, kids included? Other than the car ride, which I don't think you should have a bird just sitting there unhooded, why do we press so much on which side people should stand on when walking, or why do people hood the bird from the car to the woods?

[PeteJ]

If it is spending hours trying to get the hood off then probably that isn't funny, but probably the hood is not fitting well. As for where to stand when around someone else when they are fist hunting their bird? Most lookie loos do not keep up appropriately to be on the backside of your bird and the bird will notice it and will be distracted by that person. If they could talk this sort of behavior (looking back over there shoulder at the laggard) they would say "Keep up or go home!" As such it is better to be off to the far side of the hawk with the falconer in between, less distracting there and the hawk will treat you like you don't matter one bit to them.

[Mandragen]

If it is spending hours trying to get the hood off then probably that isn't funny, but probably the hood is not fitting well. As for where to stand when around someone else when they are fist hunting their bird? Most lookie loos do not keep up appropriately to be on the backside of your bird and the bird will notice it and will be distracted by that person. If they could talk this sort of behavior (looking back over there shoulder at the laggard) they would say "Keep up or go home!" As such it is better to be off to the far side of the hawk with the falconer in between, less distracting there and the hawk will treat you like you don't matter one bit to them.

Hours was an exageration, but it was pretty funny. I don't put it on and annoy her with it for my own entertainment, I'm not mean. I had my sponsor check it out and he hasn't seen anything wrong with the hood, like I said we are working on it. I will check into the fitting again just to make sure that it's right, thank you for pointing this out. I walk with her on the fist occasionally and I have a friend that also goes with us nine times out of ten. My friend is also a professional animal trainer with experience in marine mammals, birds, primates, etc. Sometimes he will walk right next to the hawk, maybe 2-3 feet off her back and she doesn't seem to care, I don't even hold her jesses.

[PeteJ]

Hours was an exageration, but it was pretty funny. I don't put it on and annoy her with it for my own entertainment, I'm not mean. I had my sponsor check it out and he hasn't seen anything wrong with the hood, like I said we are working on it. I will check into the fitting again just to make sure that it's right, thank you for pointing this out. I walk with her on the fist occasionally and I have a friend that also goes with us nine times out of ten. My friend is also a professional animal trainer with experience in marine mammals, birds, primates, etc. Sometimes he will walk right next to the hawk, maybe 2-3 feet off her back and she doesn't seem to care, I don't even hold her jesses.

Can I assume this is a Redtail? They often are not nearly as reactive as some of the falcons and accipiters which is why they are favored for the newly initiated.
Another thing to keep in mind, sometimes, as annoying as it might be, it can be beneficial and actually safer for the bird to be somewhat leery and reactive. There are situations out in the field where being totally at ease will get them killed...for instance by a gunner that needs to 'plink' something, or perhaps an unknown dog, or cat, or car, or train, etc.. A good bit of falcony is based on balancing tameness with just enough edge of the wild to allow the bird to exhibit the behaviors that we find so fascinating about them. If we just wanted a nice looking bird to hang out with, we'd all have parrots right?

[Saluqi]

So are you asking why hood your bird if the bird is not being stressed by the current situation? The answer is there is no reason, but are you sure what the situation will be in five minutes?

There are many reasons to hood a bird, in my mind the top reason is for the bird's own safety and well being. Raptors are visual animals, so being able to control what they see helps the falconer eliminate any possible negative experiences. Since our ability to understand how a bird interprets what it sees is limited it is better to use caution in new or stressful situations. In any given situation it may not be possible to desensitize a bird, using any of a number of training methods, so the hood is a tool that eliminates the possibility of a negative outcome. Take driving in a vehicle for example, your bird might be fine sitting on perch as you drive down the road, but then what happens if a big truck roars by? Or you get stuck in a traffic jam and suddenly the leisurely drive becomes something else?

The hood is a tool that all birds should be trained to, and used more than people think is necessary.

[PeteJ]

Probably should ask anyone that has a bird at flying weight and being driven to the field where potential normal prey is seen along the way. The bird will use up all of its available energy bating at the passing prey. Thing about birds is that they are highly reactive to stimuli which is one of the reasons that they are generally readily trained compared to some other life forms. But, they do not normally have much ability to turn this reactivity off or tune it out, it isn't in their nature. You will thank them profusely for their reactive nature when you get out there and are hawking with one. Because trust me, when the conditions are uncomfortable for you and your bird is in a tree being calm and non-reactive to anything you are offering it...you'll be cursing profusely!
It can be a completely different story with some species when they are not at flying weight. Some will sit comfortably and ride across town through traffic etc., while other species (accipiters for example) would probably bate themselves to death in fear due to their very intolerant nature when above their flying weight and caught in slow traffic with full visual disclosure.

[Mandragen]

Probably should ask anyone that has a bird at flying weight and being driven to the field where potential normal prey is seen along the way. The bird will use up all of its available energy bating at the passing prey. Thing about birds is that they are highly reactive to stimuli which is one of the reasons that they are generally readily trained compared to some other life forms. But, they do not normally have much ability to turn this reactivity off or tune it out, it isn't in their nature. You will thank them profusely for their reactive nature when you get out there and are hawking with one. Because trust me, when the conditions are uncomfortable for you and your bird is in a tree being calm and non-reactive to anything you are offering it...you'll be cursing profusely!
It can be a completely different story with some species when they are not at flying weight. Some will sit comfortably and ride across town through traffic etc., while other species (accipiters for example) would probably bate themselves to death in fear due to their very intolerant nature when above their flying weight and caught in slow traffic with full visual disclosure.

Again, I don't want anyone to set any animal in a vehicle going down the road and it not be safely restrained for everyone's safety. I would suggest that most animals are reactive to stimuli, just depends on what that stimuli is, and it's also different between individuals. What other animals are not readily trained? Are you sure they don't tune it out or over react because they don't get desensed properly? I see so much emphasis on reinforcing the bird for hunting, no wonder that's what it wants to get out and do, it baits because it's not getting anything for sitting on the glove. The bird is trained that you ain't gettin' nothin' here (lol like that NC slang), so why would it not try to get out there as soon as it can see? Does anyone have this problem but still reinforce heavily/regularly while they sit in the car (which you shouldn't do) or hang out on the glove?

[Mandragen]

So are you asking why hood your bird if the bird is not being stressed by the current situation? The answer is there is no reason, but are you sure what the situation will be in five minutes?

There are many reasons to hood a bird, in my mind the top reason is for the bird's own safety and well being. Raptors are visual animals, so being able to control what they see helps the falconer eliminate any possible negative experiences. Since our ability to understand how a bird interprets what it sees is limited it is better to use caution in new or stressful situations. In any given situation it may not be possible to desensitize a bird, using any of a number of training methods, so the hood is a tool that eliminates the possibility of a negative outcome. Take driving in a vehicle for example, your bird might be fine sitting on perch as you drive down the road, but then what happens if a big truck roars by? Or you get stuck in a traffic jam and suddenly the leisurely drive becomes something else?

The hood is a tool that all birds should be trained to, and used more than people think is necessary.

Correct you are unsure what the situation will be in five minutes, but it's our job to be aware as much as possible to try and anticipate what might happen an deal with that. I mean you can't predict the future, but that's not a reason to be scared of it. We are visual animals, most animals are visual animals, although not to the extent that a bird might be. When working with other birds, they do tend to notice things that we do not, but it is possible to learn to shape your behavior to be more aware of these things and to adjust your training to help overcome it. I had one bird that just freaked over planes that were unnoticable most of the time to me, but we got over it eventually, which to me seems much more productive than to put a hood on that particular birds because I couldn't control when a plane might fly over head.

I agree that there are things that just can't seem to be desensitized. Sometimes you just run into things you can't get around with certain individuals, and yes this is a great time for a hood. I think that having any animal free in a vehicle is a hazard that isn't worth the risk.

[Saluqi]

Correct you are unsure what the situation will be in five minutes, but it's our job to be aware as much as possible to try and anticipate what might happen an deal with that. I mean you can't predict the future, but that's not a reason to be scared of it. We are visual animals, most animals are visual animals, although not to the extent that a bird might be. When working with other birds, they do tend to notice things that we do not, but it is possible to learn to shape your behavior to be more aware of these things and to adjust your training to help overcome it. I had one bird that just freaked over planes that were unnoticable most of the time to me, but we got over it eventually, which to me seems much more productive than to put a hood on that particular birds because I couldn't control when a plane might fly over head.

I agree that there are things that just can't seem to be desensitized. Sometimes you just run into things you can't get around with certain individuals, and yes this is a great time for a hood. I think that having any animal free in a vehicle is a hazard that isn't worth the risk.

Hi Oliver,

You asked why hood a bird, Pete and I gave you some reasons why hooding is used and you think it would be better to train the bird not to react to these stimuli. I contend that it's a better use of my time and resources to have a bird that is solid to the hood, rather then attempt to prepare the bird not to react to an almost infinite number of circumstances that might arise at home, in transit, and in the field. As a falconer, and not an animal trainer, I like to focus all of my training on activities that lead to the taking of wild game with my bird, and the hood is a tool allows me to do so - I simply do not have the time or desire to train for every eventuality, it's that simple I'm lazy.

[Mandragen]

Hi Oliver,

You asked why hood a bird, Pete and I gave you some reasons why hooding is used and you think it would be better to train the bird not to react to these stimuli. I contend that it's a better use of my time and resources to have a bird that is solid to the hood, rather then attempt to prepare the bird not to react to an almost infinite number of circumstances that might arise at home, in transit, and in the field. As a falconer, and not an animal trainer, I like to focus all of my training on activities that lead to the taking of wild game with my bird, and the hood is a tool allows me to do so - I simply do not have the time or desire to train for every eventuality, it's that simple I'm lazy.

I'm sorry Paul, I hope I didn't offend you in anyway. I appreciate all your guys' feed back and the reason I started the thread/debate was to learn from those of you that know more about this than I do. I am running into all sorts of things within this hobby/sport/lifestyle, which I respect deeply, that just contridict what I have been taught.

I am one of the laziest people that I know, there isn't anyway anyone can be worse, lol. I just think training these things can be done rather easily and it's all about balance of reinforcement. Training is really to make life easier and not more difficult. We had birds that would present wings for inspection, or feet for coping the feet. Our dolphins would turn upside down and hold their breath, presenting their tail flukes, as long as it took to draw blood. I've seen a dolphin slide up on a stretcher and allow 10+ people to pick it up and walk it around. One of our dolphins needed extra water each day, and in the middle of the show she would allow me to stick a tube all the way down to her stomach and funnel water (they don't do the drinking thing). Sometimes these behaviors don't come easy, sometimes they do, but you never know until you try. It really only takes a bit of reinforcement for doing them.

[FredFogg]

Hi Oliver,

You asked why hood a bird, Pete and I gave you some reasons why hooding is used and you think it would be better to train the bird not to react to these stimuli. I contend that it's a better use of my time and resources to have a bird that is solid to the hood, rather then attempt to prepare the bird not to react to an almost infinite number of circumstances that might arise at home, in transit, and in the field. As a falconer, and not an animal trainer, I like to focus all of my training on activities that lead to the taking of wild game with my bird, and the hood is a tool allows me to do so - I simply do not have the time or desire to train for every eventuality, it's that simple I'm lazy.

Paul, you are not lazy, you are just using common sense. Oliver is looking at this from an animal trainers perspective. He is used to training animals. In reality, we aren't training our raptors to do what we want, we are training them to adapt to us and what will be happening when we take them to the field and what will happen in the field and to allow us to participate with them. Sure, there are some that train their raptors to turn in a circle for a tidbit and to follow a laser beam, but is that for falconry or for their amusement. I am like you, I just want to have a relationship with my birds that allows me to participate with them in the field while they catch game. Give Oliver a couple years of actually doing falconry and it will be much more clearer to him.

Oh yeah, Oliver, I never hooded my birds the first 3 years I was a falconer. I never had any problems, things worked just fine for me. But the reason I didn't was I was told you didn't need to hood a red-tail or kestrel. I decided I wanted to learn how to hood a bird and the next red-tail I got I hooded. I will never have another bird that I won't hood. You say you are lazy, well, hooding a bird just makes it that much easier for the falconer.

[Mandragen]

Paul, you are not lazy, you are just using common sense. Oliver is looking at this from an animal trainers perspective. He is used to training animals. In reality, we aren't training our raptors to do what we want, we are training them to adapt to us and what will be happening when we take them to the field and what will happen in the field and to allow us to participate with them. Sure, there are some that train their raptors to turn in a circle for a tidbit and to follow a laser beam, but is that for falconry or for their amusement. I am like you, I just want to have a relationship with my birds that allows me to participate with them in the field while they catch game. Give Oliver a couple years of actually doing falconry and it will be much more clearer to him.

Thanks Fred, you guys do have more experience than I, and that does not go ignored. I can't help but see the world through animal training eyes, it's what I know and it's my passion. I do my best to try and remember that that might not be the correct way all that time. It's why I asked here to get a different side and opinion. It is quite possible that after a few years I will have a much different point of view, much like your own.

[ericedw]

There might be another discussion about this somewhere, so if there is please point me in that direction and forgive my redundancy. I come from a very new school of training background. Most of my training experience also comes with training animals that are much bigger and stronger than a person. Not only are they bigger and stronger, but when you are training marine mammals you are also in their element. .

They are certainly bigger and stronger but they also can't fly away or leave the tank. Go trap a wild one and train it in the ocean

But seriously, I've trained and consulted a little on marine mamal training. And it's a huge advantage that you're operating in a VERY controled and consistent environment.

As far as the hood. It's an invaluable tool that most birds do not object to. And it's there for safety and to reduce the stress on the bird. There are times when an animal needs to be transported and very few of them do that well with it.

I did bird shows for years and when you would travel to a new venue you would spend days or weeks getting some of the birds to get comfortable with certain doorways, halls or even strange equipment. I wish I could have hooded parrots, storks, cranes and the rest. The hood is a wonderful tool that few birds object to once they are trained to it. Much like blinders on a horse it has a calming effect on the bird and makes the journey less stressful. (whether the journey is 100 miles or 100 feet)

It's not hard to train a red tail to the hood. Most falconers don't do enough "training" (I know I don't) to the hood, we get to the point of being able to get it on and that's about it. But I have had birds that I worked with more and at the approach of the hood would close the membrane over their eye and lean forward into the hood. I'm sure you could accomplish this with all birds if you wanted.

[Mandragen]

They are certainly bigger and stronger but they also can't fly away or leave the tank. Go trap a wild one and train it in the ocean

They can most certainly get away, or they could kill you. Some of the marine mammals I worked with were old enough that they were from the wild, and there are also places where they work with their animals in the ocean.

But seriously, I've trained and consulted a little on marine mamal training. And it's a huge advantage that you're operating in a VERY controled and consistent environment.

You are right about advantages of having certain situations being "controled", but I don't see it any different with these birds. There are some situations that are more controled and some that are not.

As far as the hood. It's an invaluable tool that most birds do not object to. And it's there for safety and to reduce the stress on the bird. There are times when an animal needs to be transported and very few of them do that well with it.

I agree 100%, transport is a huge stressor on most animals.

I did bird shows for years and when you would travel to a new venue you would spend days or weeks getting some of the birds to get comfortable with certain doorways, halls or even strange equipment. I wish I could have hooded parrots, storks, cranes and the rest. The hood is a wonderful tool that few birds object to once they are trained to it. Much like blinders on a horse it has a calming effect on the bird and makes the journey less stressful. (whether the journey is 100 miles or 100 feet)

Desense isn't easy, and sometimes seems impossible. I think maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to carry the hood over to other bird species.

It's not hard to train a red tail to the hood. Most falconers don't do enough "training" (I know I don't) to the hood, we get to the point of being able to get it on and that's about it. But I have had birds that I worked with more and at the approach of the hood would close the membrane over their eye and lean forward into the hood. I'm sure you could accomplish this with all birds if you wanted.

This is exactly the point I want to try and make it with any bird of mine. I'm shootin' for getting that darn thing to put the hood on itself!

[passagejack]

Not to sound rude but this topic seems to be a moot point????????
As most have stated it would be SO much less time consuming, easier and less stressful for the raptor if we took the time to properly hood train them. This way they could benefit in numerous ways. They could be in the field quicker, which is what its all about, as well as not associate the falconer with the negative experiances around it.

I personlly like a little fear of things in my falcons. I've seen and heard of raptors being killed by farmers dogs and cats other raptors as well as passing vehicles. If I had taken the time to "train" my birds to be numb to all of these negative things so that I would not have to hood it ,I would have a lot more dead raptors to speak of. I can not tell you how many times I have had a big falcon flight on huns end up a half mile away in a farm yard with strange dogs coming right at my falcon on its kill. If my falcon had been trained to fear nothing so that the hood was not needed then I would have lost alot of them to these common dangers! It is so much more benificial to the raptor and falconer to just hood train. Path of least resistance for me and the raptor.

Try training a fresh caught wild merlin or accipter without the use of the hood. You will soon have a freaked out bird with massive leg scale and feather damage! I could'nt imagine training my current passage prairie without one

[dirtwinger]

I am a big fan of my bird being well manned to anything that might distract from hunting in the field and anything that might stress it at home or on the way to the field. Having said that I use the hood a great deal too and it is not to be underestimated as an aid to desensitizing a bird to stressful stimulus.
Where the hood is very effective in this process is that you can tightly control the amount of stimulus the hawk is exposed to down to the second. Rather than just bulling through until the bird becomes oblivious after having endured much stress, it can be phased in gently anytime it becomes too much on goes the hood and the bird gets break. used correctly the hood is actually a kindness to a wild hawk. the goal in training and maintaining a raptor into your hunting partner is to do so in a subtle and minimally stressful manner. A well fitted hood used well is very much your friend in this and a hawk should accept the hood without issue if done right.
There is a reason the hood is still used in falconry after a couple of thousand years and that is because it works, as they say "if it aint broke then dont fix it".

[oldguy]

I'll step in this one. For me the first point of hooding is tradition. It is part of the artform.
If I were to take up another, say sculpting, I would learn to use every tool used.
The second point is stimulus reduction. Today I was able to fly Idaho's thriftiest redtail. He was finally at weight and attitude. I know a park nearby that is pretty much empty. Guess what's coming. I got set up and here comes a half dozen 7 or 8 yr old kids. SIGH. I asked them to please stay back and watch, which they did. "Wow, cool"! etc. I flew my bird the number of times I planned and motioned the now much larger group of kids closer.
As an ex-cop I'm a bit paranoid about kids and strangers, so we talked about what they had been told... But I digress. The little crowd grew larger as questions were answered. I quietly hooded my bird as I felt him tensing on my fist more and more. More questions of course, which I was able to answer with a calm bird on my glove.

The quiet little park turned into show and tell for what now looked like the entire first and second grades and parents. No bating, no stressed bird.
We were able to end the session on a positive note. A few decent flights to glove with instant response. He had a good bloody taste in his mouth and a bit of a crop. In my bird's mind, he got rewarded for doing as asked and there was nothing scary to mess it up.

That is why I hood my bird. Hope I made my point.

Good luck.

[Mandragen]

I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to say the hood is dumb, useless, or should be taken out of the equation all together. I enjoy learning and using new tools for training purposes. The best trainer is one with an open mind, willingness to learn, and one that can take critisizm. I've met many different types of trainers and everyone has their own unique style. When I see new types of training or new tools used by others it is important for me to understand them and their application thuroughly, anything less would be ignorant on my part, IMO.

The reasoning behind this thread was to get some more ideas, from a wider ranged audience, of the different situations hoods are needed. There have been many great examples already. This is my first bird, so things are new to me, and it's already been pointed out that red tails differ in behavior than other species. I think I've only seen one falcon flown in the two years that I've been around falconry. I've been out with many different people and birds, but most fly red tails in these parts.

[Mandragen]

I'll step in this one. For me the first point of hooding is tradition. It is part of the artform.
If I were to take up another, say sculpting, I would learn to use every tool used.
The second point is stimulus reduction. Today I was able to fly Idaho's thriftiest redtail. He was finally at weight and attitude. I know a park nearby that is pretty much empty. Guess what's coming. I got set up and here comes a half dozen 7 or 8 yr old kids. SIGH. I asked them to please stay back and watch, which they did. "Wow, cool"! etc. I flew my bird the number of times I planned and motioned the now much larger group of kids closer.
As an ex-cop I'm a bit paranoid about kids and strangers, so we talked about what they had been told... But I digress. The little crowd grew larger as questions were answered. I quietly hooded my bird as I felt him tensing on my fist more and more. More questions of course, which I was able to answer with a calm bird on my glove.

The quiet little park turned into show and tell for what now looked like the entire first and second grades and parents. No bating, no stressed bird.
We were able to end the session on a positive note. A few decent flights to glove with instant response. He had a good bloody taste in his mouth and a bit of a crop. In my bird's mind, he got rewarded for doing as asked and there was nothing scary to mess it up.

That is why I hood my bird. Hope I made my point.

Good luck.

lol, this is a situation that I am very familiar with. There was a bird I used to work with and we started training it to take pictures with guests at the facility. He was a great bird but a situation can become overwhelming quickly, not just for the bird. In this situation, without a hood, there are some tricks to helping the birds through, and in some cases it requires a premature exit. This is a spot where I think hoods could be good for tropical birds as well.

[Martin Hollinshead]

Hi Oliver,
Has flying ‘out of the hood’ been mentioned? If it has and I’ve missed it – apologies.
There are several types of hawking where the bird is kept hooded until a good slip opportunity arises – which might take some time and walking. In my own case this involves flying a Harris at hares out of the hood: some hares will be too far; some not right due to the ground/terrain/wind; some may be in dangerous situations – and some simply the wrong animal for perhaps the novice hawk. The hood allows me to select slips carefully, remembering that a normally free-flown bird might not appreciate a lengthy search without being hooded.
Martin

[Mandragen]

Hi Oliver,
Has flying ‘out of the hood’ been mentioned? If it has and I’ve missed it – apologies.
There are several types of hawking where the bird is kept hooded until a good slip opportunity arises – which might take some time and walking. In my own case this involves flying a Harris at hares out of the hood: some hares will be too far; some not right due to the ground/terrain/wind; some may be in dangerous situations – and some simply the wrong animal for perhaps the novice hawk. The hood allows me to select slips carefully, remembering that a normally free-flown bird might not appreciate a lengthy search without being hooded.
Martin

I can see where this is helpful, but does it not take time to get the hood off once game as been spotted? Maybe it's just seconds that you are losing but what if you didn't have to keep the bird hooded. I am training my bird now that it shouldn't leave the glove unless I motion for it to do so. It's nothing big, just the slightest movement of the glove hand. Sort of like a dog is taught to point, wait, and not flush until given the S(d), or discriminative stimulus. I know that it sounds complicated or even impossible, but I think it can be done. Instead of the sight of game triggering the chase, while on the fist, it's the movement of the fist that gives the ok. My PRT is just 5 weeks or so off the trap, but she is catching on quick. Sometime we walk with her being free flown and sometimes we practice with her on the fist, but when and where is always up to me, not her.

Is there anyone that does this already with success?

[Martin Hollinshead]

I can see where this is helpful, but does it not take time to get the hood off once game as been spotted? Maybe it's just seconds that you are losing but what if you didn't have to keep the bird hooded. I am training my bird now that it shouldn't leave the glove unless I motion for it to do so. It's nothing big, just the slightest movement of the glove hand. Sort of like a dog is taught to point, wait, and not flush until given the S(d), or discriminative stimulus. I know that it sounds complicated or even impossible, but I think it can be done. Instead of the sight of game triggering the chase, while on the fist, it's the movement of the fist that gives the ok. My PRT is just 5 weeks or so off the trap, but she is catching on quick. Sometime we walk with her being free flown and sometimes we practice with her on the fist, but when and where is always up to me, not her.

Is there anyone that does this already with success?

Oliver,
The braces on the hood are loosened/opened enough to permit the hood’s immediate removal. Hawks trained to fly this way explode from the glove, the hood barely clear of their head. The fast removal tells the bird, ‘out there is a hare you can get up to’ and this promise has the already concentrated and fully focussed bird give absolutely everything.
Of course, this puts all the weight on the falconer: he has to get it right, has to assess hares/conditions correctly every time in what might be a split second. If he keeps getting it wrong, commitment goes out the window (which sort of takes us back to the thread on developing a motivated hawk, or ruining one). I will add that the preparation for this is done with lure flights out of the hood.
Another benefit of course, is that when group hawking, the bird doesn’t have to watch other hawks chase hares while she waits for her turn – another killer of motivation.
On your training to keep the bird sitting on the glove and ignoring quarry with a slight special movement, I cannot comment – other than to say I’d love to see it in operation.
Martin

[Mandragen]

Oliver,
The braces on the hood are loosened/opened enough to permit the hood’s immediate removal. Hawks trained to fly this way explode from the glove, the hood barely clear of their head. The fast removal tells the bird, ‘out there is a hare you can get up to’ and this promise has the already concentrated and fully focussed bird give absolutely everything.
Of course, this puts all the weight on the falconer: he has to get it right, has to assess hares/conditions correctly every time in what might be a split second. If he keeps getting it wrong, commitment goes out the window (which sort of takes us back to the thread on developing a motivated hawk, or ruining one). I will add that the preparation for this is done with lure flights out of the hood.
Another benefit of course, is that when group hawking, the bird doesn’t have to watch other hawks chase hares while she waits for her turn – another killer of motivation.
On your training to keep the bird sitting on the glove and ignoring quarry with a slight special movement, I cannot comment – other than to say I’d love to see it in operation.
Martin

I think I get the picture, and I would love to see this done! lol, kinda like pulling a trigger on a gun? I'm not very quick and nimble with my fat fingers and would for sure mess something like that up.

Speaking of group hunting, if you have ever seen a marine mammal show there are quite a few dolphins being held at control with one person. I think it might be more difficult in this situation, again I have no experience with it in birds of prey, but we would ask one dolphin to go do something, or two, or three. We could do the same with seals, sea lions, and I've seen it done with tropical birds. In a lot of cases you could use that selection process to reward other behavior. I know it's completely different situations, but so far I have never met concepts that couldn't be worked in with other animals. I'm also aware that mutliple birds in the field can be a complete hand full, and putting hoods on it can make the job very easy. Again, what do I know, I'm new to this whole thing and could quite possibly be overly ambitious.

A bit off topic, but if you have not seen it yet they even work with their sharks at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago. Different individuals are trained to come to different shapes and colors for feeding time. Ken Ramirez does big things there, not only have attended a lecture of his, but have worked with him closely on one occasion and seen him work quite a few times personally. He has a book titled Animal Training, it's got some good stuff in there dealing with OC for a variety of situation. In my opinion, and experience, birds are smarter than fish. I think there is a lot more these birds are capable of than we give them credit for.

[Martin Hollinshead]

I think I get the picture, and I would love to see this done!

Oliver,
I just remembered this account. It’s not at all technical, is in fact quite light, but if you have a few minutes to kill it might paint a picture of this type of flight (if you get bored with the story, just scroll through to the flight!)
http://business.virgin.net/fernhill.press/extract8.htm
Martin

[AK Rev]

I am training my bird now that it shouldn't leave the glove unless I motion for it to do so.

Your bird becomes aware of quarry many times before you do. That's the split second that makes the difference many times. If my bird only left when I told it to I would be missing about 1/2 of the slips and needlessly delaying most of the others. Just my take on it.

I like what Terence said about hooding...it's actually a kindness to the bird. Well put.

[Mandragen]

Your bird becomes aware of quarry many times before you do. That's the split second that makes the difference many times. If my bird only left when I told it to I would be missing about 1/2 of the slips and needlessly delaying most of the others. Just my take on it.

I like what Terence said about hooding...it's actually a kindness to the bird. Well put.

Excellent point and I thought about this as well. If I find that it might work better that way, we will go that route as well. But in the example above, they can't see the game with a hood on either, so it's totally on the human there as well.

[AK Rev]

Right but in that scenario, the bird would not be hooded on the fist for those reasons. Look around here for a recent topic on "can your sharpie do this?" (something like that). You'll see just how fast the reaction times can be for a raptor that isn't hindered if you view the video of the bird launcher.

Speaking of which, a whole other subject is whether to hold on to the jesses or even whether to remove them in the field. Actually, that subject tracks about the same as this one in regards to reactionary times, etc. but jesses are useful at times...even essential.

Think of the hood and the jesses as tools...not always used but always close at hand.

[jnelly32]

This has basically been covered already, but I wanted to give a fellow apprentice my perspective to the question.

I had my first bird last season, a PMRT that despised the hood (I think mainly because of my inexperience in jamming it on his head when he was trapped - but that's maybe a discussion for another thread). Because of his aversion to the hood and my inexperience with hooding a bird, I gave up hooding him very early on and relied on the giant hood to take him anywhere.

I ignored the advice of more experienced falconers who kept telling me that I needed to get the bird used to the hood. But from my limited experience, the GH was more than adequate in the field, and I managed equipment changes fairly well with the bird on my fist.

However, when my bird broke his coracoid and wishbone, it became glaringly obvious that I was foolish to not train my bird to the hood. The x-rays at the vet's were traumatic without the hood, and the physical therapy made the bird absolutely despise me. If he had been hooded, the x-rays would not have been such an issue, and certainly he would not have associated me with the pain/stress of physical therapy that was necessary to help him heal correctly. The lost trust and the stress it caused could have been minimized if he would take the hood. This bird eventually caught Asper and died, which I believe was partly due to the stress the injury caused. Could this have been prevented if the bird hooded? Who knows - but it might have.

My PFRT for this year spent a lot of time in that new, properly fitted, quality hood, from the very first day. She is hooded daily and no longer has any issue with it. I'll make sure that every bird I have from here on out is trained to the hood.

[Mandragen]

I think this is an excellent example of when a hood would be a great tool in the arsenal of many.

I think I've just seen too many bring the hood out at the first sign of stress, or the anticipation of stress, or maybe just because they don't wanna deal with it. I think it's important with any animal to realize that a little bit of stress isn't necessarily a bad thing. Done properly you can get through it, without pushing the bird too far (what is too far is for the individual to determine as we all know our animals better than anyone else). This not only helps the bird learn how to deal with that particular situation, but also helps them learn that it is possible to get over things that might stress them in the future, learn to learn. You are certainly not teaching them anything by shutting it off, the only thing they might be learning is that if they feel uncomfortable they can pitch a fit and you will take care of it. Unfortunately you see the aforementioned in a lot of people's kids.

[Ricko]

Hooding is essential to get the most out of falconry. If hunting is not the purpose of one that has a raptor....the hood will not make a lot of sense. Docility and managability are greatly enhanced with a hood.

Interestingly, falconry in Europe was "revolutionized" by the hood. It was intorduced to King Frederick II by Arabian falconers. Which means that european falconers attempted to fly birds w/o hoods for a long time.

That must have been interesting.

[Keith Denman]

killer story and a beautiful hare for Christmas dinner.

[rkumetz]

Hooding is essential to get the most out of falconry. .

I disagree with this single statement. Granted a hood can be an asset but I venture to say a fair number of falconers (particularly those flying RT's and Harris who use giant hoods) do not use the hood and they have a lot of fun.

In my case using a hood would be nice but I have only 1 good eye and no depth perception. Ever try to hood a bird when you can't quite judge where its head is? (and I don't mean in a psychological sense) Not pretty... I tried for years but couldn't really get the hang of it even with birds that had been made to the hood by others.
Eventually I gave it up in frustration.

All in all I would say that if someone is not good at it they are better off using a giant hood than ending up with a bird with some issues because they are constantly trying (poorly) to hood the bird. Not everyone can be good at everything.....

[Eric Hausman]

Oliver I've hood trained all 6 of my RT's and have found the sooner you start the better. Be persistent and consistant. I lost 2 leashes while hunting in brutal briars the other day and was very thankful to have a hood trained bird. You have missed your window with this bird.

Eric Hausman