Blackjack, 2012 Imprint NA tiercel goshawk

[wingnut]

Doug,

I'm listening to what you have to say to. How much did you have to drop your bird to get him to respond to game? I'm just wondering how much non tame hacked birds usually loose before showing interest in chasing stuff.

I took his first weight when he was 50 days old. He was 760g. He would kill baggie sparrows at that weight. At 60 days when I started flying him free he was 730g and he would come short distances to the glove and from any distance for the lure and he chased a baggie quail with vigor and caught it in the air. I took him as low as 720g but his keel was a little too sharp but he was very responsive. I got him back to 760g and he still was hot for baggies but lacked some response to the glove. Back down to 730 and got the quick response to the glove again. I kept him at that weight for about another week and then over the course of the last five days got him up to 765. My weight control has been more concentrated on field control and not game pursuit as he seems to do that at any weight. I don't think it is any particular technique I'm using because as I've discribed I like to keep it simple. It's just the way he is. My sponsor had a fair amount of experience with goshawks and he's the one that got me started feeding them only on the lure as a young bird and then calling to the glove as they get older and using the lure as a back up. He warned me that hand feeding can come back and bite you but that was a long time ago and many people have hand fed their goshawks with success. I just never had the nerve to try it. I think the best thing you can do with a gos is get them in the field asap and to do that you need field control early on. Then you can get them focused on game in whatever means you have available. Hope that helps.

[Ally]

Hey guys, thanks for the discussion. I really do appreciate all the thought everyone puts into their posts. There are so many different ways to do things, and it's been my experience that many of those ways work, but it's when you start mixing methods that things seem to fall apart. I'm going to see this method through and see how it works. Tweak things and learn things for next time.

Keep in mind this is my first imprint, and only my second accipiter that I've done any real work with.

Well, BJ got to come on a road trip with me this weekend and we are in bunny paradise...wish my redtail was down to weight because we busted some whitetailed jacks that I would have LOVED to get her on.

Jack is hovering around 690g and that number is going to climb. The lightbulb seems to have gone off for him. He's still noisy but it's gotten much better since we've been away from the home environment, and out in the field I am REALLY pleased.

Day 1 (Saturday) -
The CT hunting is very reminiscent of Vernal from last year...juniper and sage on small rolling hills with little draws. Jack rode the fist for a while but was pretty eager to stretch his wings so he flew around. Busted a jack first thing and he just looked at it (which I'm ok with, I wasn't expecting that). Couple of little tweety birds moved and he looked but wasn't overly interested. His response to the whistle and the glove was much better than it's ever been--he started to come look for me if he wasn't on the fist. Then we flushed the first cottontail, and he was off! Off the fist after it but lost it in the sage pretty quickly. We had a couple more run (or the same one multiple times) and he chased them but was having more fun than being serious. He did start to come back to the glove after a missed slip. After about two hours he started to wander a little bit, so we called it a morning with 5 or 6 chases on CT's and seeing 2 Whitetail Jacks.

Day 2 -
Lightbulb is getting brighter. Still some noise but I loved everything about his attitude--very upright on the glove, slicked down and looking for anything that moved. Really started to come looking for me if I went out of line of sight. First thing we saw again was a whitetailed jack, and this time he put in a chase on it! I don't really think I want him binding to one though...
We didn't find as many CT's this morning (I think 3 or 4) but his attitude and the amount of purpose and power in his flights made him look like he was out for blood. He was crashing bushes and weaving through little gaps in the trees and it was SO MUCH FUN to watch him. His last chase took him a lot further from the car than I wanted (we were working our way back) so I got him in a line of sight and called him to the lure from about 1/4 mile away. He made a beeline to it and transferred to the fist for his reward.

We didn't connect but we had a great time! Can't wait to get back home and get him on some pine squirrels...think they'll be awesome flights. Just killing time til upland bird season opens

[Ally]

Here's a few pictures from last weekend:

First evening after a long ride in the GH:


Morning 1, looking for bunnies


Finding it a little hard to land on these silly junipers




Pissed off after a missed bunny flight




Coming back to the car






My favorite shot


All photos courtesy of my mother!

[Dirthawking]

Nice! How was BJs noise level while hunting?

How did you manage to go through three different outfits in one hunt though! ?!?!?!?

[MyAbusa]

Great photos Ally! Thanks for sharing.

[goshawks00]

For some reason I can't see the photos.....

[PeteJ]

I can Barry so you might need to do a diagnostic on your computer....something got turned off.

[BestBeagler]

I saw them first and then they dissapeared on me.

[Ally]

Huh....bizarre. I'll mess with them more when I get home...

Oh and--he still made some noise out in the field but it was better than it is at home.

And I REALLY wish I could say I needed to pack multiple clothes because of all the rabbit blood but *sigh* not the case. 3 different days :P

[JRedig]

I saw them first and then they dissapeared on me.

Same!

[Ally]

Let's try this...

















And my favorite...



Does that work better for everyone?

[goshawks00]

Got it Ally, he looks great that said, my goodness please do something about that transmitter, it's a disaster waiting to happen.............

[Ally]

I've never had a problem with a leg mount. That being said, I am just waiting for my tail clips to get here.

[BestBeagler]

I've never had a problem with a leg mount. That being said, I am just waiting for my tail clips to get here.

Ally, I want to put this delicately so I will try my best. Lots of times it's not if YOU'VE had any problems with a particular aspect with equipment or what have you, it's a matter of WHEN. Many falconers have gone on before and have made mistakes I personally like to learn from them. A few times old timers have told me about potential problems with clips and such, I smiled and nodded and ignored. Eventually what they said came true. Falconry is all about minimizing risk. How far we go in avoiding potential risk is I guess personal thing though.

Oh by the way, a Scout is more than a leg mount it's a "flying saucer" lol . They are great transimitters but are pretty huge.

[allredone]

Looks like you're having fun and your bird is getting some good time on the wing Ally. I envy you the open country hawking.

Your bird is in good feather and I notice you are taking care to remove jesses before flying? Your pictures and your posts to me suggest that you seem to be a fairly conscientious falconer. I hope you can blow it off when some of us chime in like an older brother telling you which way is up.

Leg mount is probably a bit clunky but thos things work! And better to fly the bird than wait for just the right gear to show up. Besides, you're flying with one bell and no jesses? One can hardly fault you for too much gear.

Keep up the good work and posts.

[Ally]

You see correctly...I usually fly with two bells and a tail mount transmitter, but because the Scout is so big I nixed the bell on the same leg so I wasn't burdening him. I also have a merlin systems tranny that's much smaller, but is currently at merlin systems being repaired, so what can ya do.

I use field jesses with my RTH but there's no real need to have them on this guy...he rides the fist pretty well and he trades from a small piece or ungarnished lure to most of the meal on the fist, so I have lots of time to slip his jesses back in and clip him to the glove while he's eating.

Right now BJ is on a little bit of a vacation with another falconer. We are surrounded by fire up here and the smoke is horrendous...and it's the first week of school, so things are a little crazy.

I wish I had that country up here...that was 9 hours of driving :P I can get to similar country in about 3 hours though. Loved seeing the jacks and all the bunnies. Can't wait to start flying gamebirds though...been seeing huns and pheasants and it's got me itching to go.

[allredone]

Good for you. Sounds like you're off to a good start. I was just discussing a little vacation possibility for my new female. A friend has more time and game and might give her a good show while I take care of some business. Imprints are a handful. It may be a while before I make another. Right now the new Wire Jack puppy is more of a joy. It may be late season or early next year before they look much like a team. For now I'm just happy that the bird tolerates the puppy and other terriers.

Sorry to hear about the fires. Some of that this way too. Good luck rolling back into school.

[bobpayne]

For some reason I can't see the photos.....

interested in what you suggest? Tailmount neckmount backpack?

[goshawkr]

interested in what you suggest? Tailmount neckmount backpack?

WEll - you werent asking me, but my suggestion is in this order:

1. Backpack
2. Tailmount (mounted on a plectrum anchored to two feathers)
3. Tailmount (mounted on single feather)
4. neckmount (I have no experience with this though, and they freak me out)
5. .
6. .
7. leg mount

Notice how little I think of a leg mount.

The very last time I flew with bells mounted on the legs I put brand new bells on my redtail, and when I got home from an hours hunt I discovered both had been rendered non functional by big dents that were caused by impacts with the hawk's toes - presumably while pounding one or more of the bunnies we caught that day. That cured me of mounting anything but ID Bands and jesses on the feet.

Although, as Aaron pointed out, it is much better to have the bird in the air than sitting on its duff at home, and if the only thing keeping the bird in the air is a "less than your personal ideal way of mounting a transmitter", put the transmitter on and go hawking. Good for you Alley that your are out hawking, even if you have to use a bewit mounted transmitter to do it.

And of course, this is just my opinion. There are a thousand ways to skin a duck, and others may have other preferences.

[goshawks00]

Single deck feather tailmount w/ small transmitter. -0- failures in over 20 years. I have found one of the biggest mistakes those using tail feather mounts comes down to the installer not mounting them high enough on the shaft of the feather. They should right up next to where the feather meets the base of the tail

[Dirthawking]

Single deck feather tailmount w/ small transmitter. -0- failures in over 20 years. I have found one of the biggest mistakes those using tail feather mounts comes down to the installer not mounting them high enough on the shaft of the feather. They should right up next to where the feather meets the base of the tail

Or closing them to tight to the point of cracking the feather shaft.

[goshawks00]

I suppose that could happen.... I did forgot to mention a drop of cyanoacrylate glue on a un-oiled deck.
The more i think about it, there are two issues to a pulled deck. One the transmitter sits to far down the shaft, which can cause a whipping action that loosens the socket. The other is a transmitter that sits to high due to a to high ferrule ( usually because of the dual deck/plenum arrangement), and a to big transmitter. The trans should fit high enough that it is protected and covered by the upper tail coverts. If you can see the trans when mounted, you got it right.
.02

[Ally]

I am personally a fan of the tail clip/tail mount transmitter on one deck. I only just started using one last year and it worked really well. Leg-mounted bells are something I've always used except on micros and I like being able to hear where my bird is without having to turn to get a visual--especially if we're on game and I need to be focused on working...just a personal preference of mine.

Neck mounts also freak me out a little...see lots of people using them with great success but they just make me uncomfortable.

Grouse season opens this Sunday and I've got a place to get on 'em where it's fairly open and you can sneak up so close on them you could kill them with a rock...also not as fast as huns. I think it will be a good intro for Jack on big game birds...might try the RT on them too just for fun. :P

[bobpayne]

Thanks Geoff, as always I'm interested in your thoughts concerning things about shortwings. Yes I was interested in Barry's insight, Answers all based on many years of personal experiences I'm sure. I flew a hen gos,(1993) using a tailmount, and was hunting mostly eastern cottontails. I had small issues with the tailmount, had the transmitter fall or torn off during tussles with rabbits a couple times, finally lost a deck to a fence, then cracked a deck while remounting it, switched to a leg mount. A couple of friends and I have used them on shrtwings without problem.

I have tried to use the neck mounted transmitter with a couple hawks and seem to have issues with rubberbands rotting off and the hawks lack of trust issue with my installing and removing it quickly and smoothly.

I currently have several hawks using backpacks but had planned to continue to use the leg mount with the goshawk. He is used to me installing it. I wonder about installing a backpack and switching out the transmitters batteries, being an imprint that I do not hood regularly, I worry every time I cast him.

Thanks all good stuff to think over!

Ally, beautiful hawk, enjoy the hunt!

WEll - you werent asking me, but my suggestion is in this order:

1. Backpack
2. Tailmount (mounted on a plectrum anchored to two feathers)
3. Tailmount (mounted on single feather)
4. neckmount (I have no experience with this though, and they freak me out)
5. .
6. .
7. leg mount

Notice how little I think of a leg mount.

The very last time I flew with bells mounted on the legs I put brand new bells on my redtail, and when I got home from an hours hunt I discovered both had been rendered non functional by big dents that were caused by impacts with the hawk's toes - presumably while pounding one or more of the bunnies we caught that day. That cured me of mounting anything but ID Bands and jesses on the feet.

Although, as Aaron pointed out, it is much better to have the bird in the air than sitting on its duff at home, and if the only thing keeping the bird in the air is a "less than your personal ideal way of mounting a transmitter", put the transmitter on and go hawking. Good for you Alley that your are out hawking, even if you have to use a bewit mounted transmitter to do it.

And of course, this is just my opinion. There are a thousand ways to skin a duck, and others may have other preferences.

[goshawks00]

Bob those are all common issues with folks that tail mount. Many years ago Luksander and I had a long conversation about this... The common fault was 1) trans fall off because of the spring tension on the transmitter spring clip is not strong enough... Remedy is to bend them out a bit to increase the pressure.2) feathers pulled out is "usually" the result of the trans clip mounted to far down the shaft. Remedy mount as high as possible directly to the feather shaft, right up next to the flesh (thumb) of the tail. In a previous post I meant to say if you can see the transmitter it is TO LOW/HIGH. (side note those mounting to tail feathers via a 'guitar pick' type platform are the most vulnerable to pull outs as they stick way up above the 'flow' of the back to tail transition) 3) cracked shafts while mounting... that's a 'duh' thing , we'll call it operator error.
As far as backpacks go the trans it attached to the backpack the same way as a tail mount. It comes off, you change the battery and reinstall again onto the backpack. At least I think that's how they work, never used one.
Sorry Ally for the rabbit trail....

[Ally]

Hey no worries guys, there won't be much for updates until I pick Jack back up in a week or two. The smoke is starting to clear up as they're getting fires under control but when you see a blood-red sun and moon you know it's nasty...

[goshawkr]

... The smoke is starting to clear up as they're getting fires under control but when you see a blood-red sun and moon you know it's nasty...

Yes, but the sunrises and sunsets are AMAZING.

[goshawkr]

As far as backpacks go the trans it attached to the backpack the same way as a tail mount. It comes off, you change the battery and reinstall again onto the backpack. At least I think that's how they work, never used one.

There are a few differnt types of backpack transmitters, but the ones commonly used for falconry work just like a tail mount. The tranmitter is actually just like a tail mount - with a spring clip that snaps into place.

To change batteries you just remove the transmitter while the hawk is on a perch or on the glove. Its not quite as easy as a tail mount, but close.

[BestBeagler]

Hows the gos doing any updates?

[Richard]

Thanks Geoff, as always I'm interested in your thoughts concerning things about shortwings. Yes I was interested in Barry's insight, Answers all based on many years of personal experiences I'm sure. I flew a hen gos,(1993) using a tailmount, and was hunting mostly eastern cottontails. I had small issues with the tailmount, had the transmitter fall or torn off during tussles with rabbits a couple times, finally lost a deck to a fence, then cracked a deck while remounting it, switched to a leg mount. A couple of friends and I have used them on shrtwings without problem.

I have tried to use the neck mounted transmitter with a couple hawks and seem to have issues with rubberbands rotting off and the hawks lack of trust issue with my installing and removing it quickly and smoothly.

I currently have several hawks using backpacks but had planned to continue to use the leg mount with the goshawk. He is used to me installing it. I wonder about installing a backpack and switching out the transmitters batteries, being an imprint that I do not hood regularly, I worry every time I cast him.

Thanks all good stuff to think over! Ally, beautiful hawk, enjoy the hunt!

Baby just lost a deck feather to a fence. While I hate losing the feather, I really wonder what would have happened had she been wearing the backpack... If she hit hard enough to rip out the feather, what would that kind of force do to something mounted as strongly as the backpack? Anybody had a bird with backpack mount do this?

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,

I have used the BP when Mark Williams started developing it before Marshall got into it and have not had this problem.
But I have pulled decks using the tail mount.

Harry.

[Ally]

Hey all,
Sorry for the long lack of updates, let me fill you all in on what's happened to the rotten little demon in the last month and a half or so...

I think, in my first post on this thread, I mentioned that things could very possibly go to hell in a handbasket...well, they kinda did.

He started to scream incessantly, he acted absolutely terrified of me and people in general, and would barely sit on the glove, and he mantled horribly. To me it seemed like he had gone off the deep end. I know accipiters all have a little bit of a screw loose, but this was more than I was prepared for.

I think I pushed him too hard and too fast, and dropped his weight too quickly in my eagerness to get him out and get him hunting. I should have gone much, much more slowly.

I've heard that sometimes the best thing to do if behavioral problems arise is to get them the heck out of the environment that's causing them. So, a friend of mine agreed to take him and keep him at his house for a while to see what happened.

That seemed to be the right remedy. Over the past weeks he has settled back down...he acts more like a passage bird than an imprint now, but he's quiet and focused on game. His recall to the lure is pretty good and he trades off of it quickly and easily. He's been served a few tossed birds and flies them down without a problem and is super snappy off the glove. He goes right to plucking and pretty eagerly trades off for an opened up quail. I'm down in Wyoming at the moment due to a very ill family member, but when I get back I'm going to get him on some upland birds and try some duck slips.

690g seems to be the right weight for him. I think as the temps keep dropping that will bump back up, but we've got ducks and upland game aplenty to get to work on. I gave him a few weeks to settle down before I started working with him, but once I started handling him again he was calm and comfortable with me. I'm very much looking forward to the season ahead!

He busted a couple of tailfeathers on a tossed pigeon but otherwise he's still in nice shape. As soon as I get back and we get back in the saddle I'll start a thread in the Short Wings forum to chronicle our hunting adventures. He doesn't seem afraid of chasing any sort of game...feather or fur he goes right after without hesitation. I think he's got the potential to be a great little gamehawk, no thanks to my fumbles and mess-ups. On the plus side, if I were to raise another (which I hope not to have to do for a very long time) I have a much better idea of what works and what doesn't. There's hope for us yet

[Ally]

Blackjack and I had our first official hunt today since everything went to hell.

Couldn't have been more proud of him. He rode the fist rock-steady, very upright, snaking his head and looking at everything that moved. His recall was flawless, to glove and lure, and he was silent in the field. The only thing that bothered him was when we were too close to a road, and he hates cars.

Our first duck slip wasn't ideal, on a fairly sizeable pond and a longish flight...he'd never seen a duck before. As soon as we came up over the bank he was off like a shot and had singled out a hen mallard, and was almost on her when she bailed back into the water. I thought he was going to go in after her. He buzzed another mallard on the water that also dove, and landed on the bank. Called him back with the lure, transferred him to a tidbit on the glove and went to the next spot.

Next spot was too close to the road...he bated away from the cars and missed the ducks, but we ran into a big covey of quail that we got a slip at. He charged into the brush after one, missed it, and was walking along the edge trying to get at them. He came right back out of it to the glove and we moved on.

Next spot, he tried to catch a muskrat and missed, and had a jogger come by that botched our duck flush.

Final spot, getting right to dark, and we were walking a ditch at a dairy, and with about 30 yards of ditch left, a lone hen mallard busts and climbs straight up. Blackjack shot off the fist, outclimbed her, tackled her and brought her to the ground. He got drug back into the ditch and I had to run over and fish him and the duck out. But he had a solid grip on it, and scored his first kill









So proud of my little guy! We are ready to rock and roll now.

[Tasha55403]

Nice job!

[lewsouder]

Good job Ally! Now the fun begins...let the bodies hit the floor...