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Thread: Blackjack, 2012 Imprint NA tiercel goshawk

  1. #141
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    I have...quite possibly...the goofiest goshawk in the northwest...
    When his lure was tossed this morning for his breakfast, he nailed it, then grabbed the chick and jumped and spun 360 with it a few times...
    If you want to know what it looks like, see the video I posted earlier of him playing with his toy. Looks exactly like that. What a dork.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  2. #142
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    I think the dorkyness is going around. Blue is getting weirder by the day...
    Brian in Montana---
    Montana is FULL. I hear South Dakota is nice. www.lchoods.weebly.com

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ally View Post
    I have...quite possibly...the goofiest goshawk in the northwest...
    When his lure was tossed this morning for his breakfast, he nailed it, then grabbed the chick and jumped and spun 360 with it a few times...
    If you want to know what it looks like, see the video I posted earlier of him playing with his toy. Looks exactly like that. What a dork.
    Andreis did this kind of thing all the time this year. He'd be sitting on his bow perch, hackles go up, and he'd start tap dancing in circles flapping/flying/footing the perch or toy. Land...sit still a minute...back at it for a bit. He'd do that sometimes for hours. Got to the point where I could throw his toy in there and he'd tap dance it then land and look at me with his head upside down.
    -Jeff
    "You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life." --Marco Simoncelli

  4. #144
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    It is the funniest thing. He does it with his morning meals pretty consistently now, and is still incredibly playful. A friend was dangling a couple of ear buds and he thought that was just FASCINATING.

    I learned a couple of things about tame hacking and about people in general...
    People are more observant than I give them credit for. Jack was exploring and ended up in the trees in front of someone's house. He ended up landing on their roof. The guy noticed the bells and transmitter and later, he told me 'I've seen this done in movies, can't be that hard' and ran inside and got a pair of work gloves.
    BJ, of course, saw a glove presented to him and came down to visit...boy was the guy surprised. After Jack had had enough of his new friend and went to inspect the neighbor's dog kennel, the guy was trying to find the right person to contact about a "lost" hawk... Half an hour later when I recovered him, still in the neighbor's yard, I explained the situation and he got a good laugh out of it. Thought Jack was the most interesting thing he'd ever seen...
    Anybody else ever had someone (nonfalconer) try to cal ltheir bird down?? Thought I almost had a heart attack...
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  5. #145
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    Ally, I'd love to do a Black Jack themed hood for you....if you still want one when I am taking new orders let me know..

  6. #146
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    Ally,
    we like to think that our birds are one falconer birds,sadly, most are whores
    Brian in Montana---
    Montana is FULL. I hear South Dakota is nice. www.lchoods.weebly.com

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ally View Post
    Anybody else ever had someone (nonfalconer) try to cal ltheir bird down?? Thought I almost had a heart attack...
    More times then you'd imagine... not to mention while hawking.

    I've got great neighbors, I hawk on all their places, and they are ever vigilant to keep an eye out for my hawks. A couple that comes to mind were the kids the next farm down. They loved the hawks and would come over as often as we would let them.. they esp the 10 year old girl, spent an amazing amount of time playing with , probably the last 6-7 goshawks I've hacked. That said on two different occasions I tracked the wayward hawk down to their place and called to see if they saw him. Yes he was upstairs in her bedroom playing house!! Seems Ricky had just walked in with her and followed her upstairs. Another time he was in the neighbors kid's tree house playing with them. When I got there the mother called the kids down and they called Ricky down to them as I stood there ... He landed right at their feet and then proceeded to walk over to the deck hop up on the picnic table and lay down.
    Had another gos Apache fly down to the neighbors farm and end up in the barn... They quickly called and said they trapped a hawk and did I want it.
    So I walked down and retrieved him and called him along as I walked home. It's great to live in the sticks and to have neighbors that watch out for the birds.
    "you believe you understand what I said, do realize what you heard is not what I meant"
    Barry

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Proctor View Post
    Ally, I'd love to do a Black Jack themed hood for you....if you still want one when I am taking new orders let me know..
    Chris, that would be awesome! Let me know when you've got some availabililty!

    Jack is definitely an attention whore...Barry, your neighbors sound awesome. I believe I remember reading something about Thor last year playing in the neighbor's tree house?

    Oh, so many adventures
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  9. #149
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    I still learn new things every day with this bird, and watch him learn something new as well.

    I came home from work and brought Jack inside from the weathering and let him play with the dogs. He runs around on the ground and chases them, and I swear he thinks it's funny. Bless my husky's patient heart, however...Jack was zooming through doorways and ended up accidentally landing on Kodi's face and then tumbling off, and all the dog did was step over him and keep walking. Shortly thereafter, Jack ran up and footed his tail, and so the husky just sat down and ignored him. I found myself scolding the goshawk and pushing him away from the dog as he tried to bite the dog's paw. So what does Jack do? He runs under the coffee table to get another shot at the tail...shooed off again, he runs between my legs and goes after the setter's tail. Oh, what a fun game this is!

    Finally he gave up on the dogs and went to kill a tennis ball. He tossed it around for a while and then wandered into my bedroom, where he pulled a shirt out of the laundry basket and started dragging it around and tap dancing with it...then he moved on to a pair of shorts. I was told that if he started playing with lingerie I had to get a picture....no such luck

    For his walkabout this evening he was in my parents' neighborhood, as I have an uncle visiting for a few weeks. He landed on the roof and scared the crap outta my sister, who was sitting up there, then took off after something with murder in his eyes by the next house down. After not catching it, he zoomed around the neighborhood for a few minutes, pulling all kinds of acrobatics. I'm amazed by the increase in his speed, strength and coordination.

    Crows came in very quickly and started harassing him, and at first he was scared of them and went and hid close to the bole of a big, thick spruce tree. He moved to a cottonwood behind the house and posed for a few pictures by the visiting relatives...and then he decided that he was tough enough to do so, and singled out a crow and rocketed after it. It was a VERY pleasant surprise, as I have always wanted to hawk crows.

    At dinner time and about the 3 hour mark, I went to call Jack down. I put on my glove and gave a whistle blast and he bailed out of the tree he was in to come and land on the roof of the house right next to me. I pulled out his ungarnished lure and he was on it like white on rice. He mantled quite a bit harder than he usually does, but I'm attributing that to the threat of the crows still hovering overhead. He didn't turn away from me or seem bothered by my hands slipping his jesses in or helping him with his meal.

    During dinner he was tethered on the back deck with us, and was calm and preening with a good crop, until a squirrel came out into the open on the trunk of a tree. He immediately slicked down and was keenly interested. This is the first day I've seen him act even remotely serious about anything...and now he seemed serious about everything. My little baby's growing up *sniff*.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ally View Post
    Anybody else ever had someone (nonfalconer) try to cal ltheir bird down?? Thought I almost had a heart attack...
    Ally,

    I had a similar experience but it didn't go quite as well. I had a young female HH who had a few head under her belt but was still very much a baby. We were hawking near a casino for some early season bunnies laying out in low cover. I was perhaps 100 yards from the parking lot when a man and two women climbed out of a car and noticed us. They were talking back and forth when the man raised his fist to the air (must have seen Lady Hawke or some other movie). Well as the early training my bird received was flying back and forth between a friend and I, she left the fist like a rocket. She landed on his raised fist but he must have thought better of it and dropped his arm. She insitinctively locked on to her failing perch. She released him as he dropped to his knees and flew back to me. I clipped her up and approached the trio. The ladies were laughing their heads off and the man was not injured (scratched in two places). Wounded pride in a man is almost as dangerous as backing a wild animal into a corner. I sized things up and decided not to lecture him but rather helped him ease out of his embarassment. It could have gone sideways very fast. I tried to reframe my perception of him as he was headed into a casino to hand in his hard earned money so judgment may have been an issue in more than one area of his life.
    Phil Smith
    Rolla, MO (By way of Neah Bay, WA; Yakima, WA, Stanwood, WA; Anchorage, AK)

  11. #151
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    BJ's weight bounces around a bit, but I also don't weigh him consistently or at the same time of day, but he seems to be hovering right in the vicinity of 750g. He doesn't have as much muscle mass as I'd like but he alaso doesn't get out as much as I'd like...just a couple hours a day and sometimes he flies around, sometimes he sits and does nothing. We're building up to full RP's but I've never done them before and he returns to the fist after a bate towards the food more often than not. I *think* what I'm doing wrong is not moving towards the food fast enough to let him realize he's making progress towards it, and not starting far enough away, so I'm making adjustments and going to try again tonight.

    He's totally got the stuffing his face in the hood to get a click/reward thing down, so last night the hood went all the way on without the braces struck. He let me get it on with no fuss (leaned back a little bit but didn't dodge or complain) but almost immediatley tried to shake it off.

    I started just getting it on, click, take off, reward. I was gradually increasing the duration.

    HOWEVER, I left it on too long on one of the last attempts and he got upset and shook it off. At that point I did NOT want to reward the chitter and getting the hood off, so I had to get the hood BACK on and remove it with a click/reward. I don't think very much damage was done, but tonight's session will tell. Note to self: don't push for duration too fast. When I went to hood him after he shook it off, the behavior was the same though. He didn't protest, didn't act fearful, so I'm hopeful.

    Also going to try to capture any calm behavior in the hood to CR, instead of him shaking his head. Trying to get a chukar to bag him on in the next couple of days, just waiting on the guy to call me back.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ally View Post
    We're building up to full RP's but I've never done them before and he returns to the fist after a bate towards the food more often than not. I *think* what I'm doing wrong is not moving towards the food fast enough to let him realize he's making progress towards it, and not starting far enough away, so I'm making adjustments and going to try again tonight.
    What's your target/quarry for RP's? On the ground or on something?
    -Jeff
    "You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life." --Marco Simoncelli

  13. #153
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    [QUOTE=Ally;250386]. We're building up to full RP's but I've never done them before and he returns to the fist after a bate towards the food more often than not. I *think* what I'm doing wrong is not moving towards the food fast enough to let him realize he's making progress towards it, and not starting far enough away, so I'm making adjustments and going to try again tonight.

    Ally, get a longer creance and let him pull it through your fingers as he 'rows' toward the food... Free pull at first, then lightly apply pressure letting it still slide through your fingers, after a couple, apply just a little more pressure, then again after a few a little more. Also don't get to far away from the tidbit, esp. at first. It's reward, then reward with a bit more effort, and so on. BTW not all done in one feeding, build him up to it. The goal is great effort for small reward... Big rewards will help shape his effort if done randomly.
    "you believe you understand what I said, do realize what you heard is not what I meant"
    Barry

  14. #154
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    This is an awesome demonstration video: http://timjessell.com/out/Restrained...TimJessell.mp4
    -Jeff
    "You live more for five minutes going fast on a bike like that, than other people do in all of their life." --Marco Simoncelli

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ally View Post
    BJ's weight bounces around a bit, but I also don't weigh him consistently or at the same time of day, but he seems to be hovering right in the vicinity of 750g. He doesn't have as much muscle mass as I'd like but he alaso doesn't get out as much as I'd like...just a couple hours a day and sometimes he flies around, sometimes he sits and does nothing. We're building up to full RP's but I've never done them before and he returns to the fist after a bate towards the food more often than not. I *think* what I'm doing wrong is not moving towards the food fast enough to let him realize he's making progress towards it, and not starting far enough away, so I'm making adjustments and going to try again tonight.
    When starting Restrained Pursuits, its important to not take things too fast. If he is returning to the fist more often than bateing hard for the food, adjust your criteria.

    The goal in each session of a RP is very simple - bate for x seconds, then I'll let you "catch" it.

    Like any other Operant Conditioning exercise, you need to start small, and work up as progress develops. Start with a 2 second bate, and adjust. If the bating is always vigorous, maybe you increase the bate time.

    You want to find the line where the hawk dosnt succeed every time, but does succeed most of the time to start with. Later on, succeeding only 20% of the time will actually make them try harder all the time.
    Geoff Hirschi - "It is better to have lightning in the fist than thunder in the mouth"
    Custom made Tail Saver Perches - http://www.myrthwood.com/TieEmHigh/

  16. #156
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    Between yesterday and today, Blackjack has earned a few new names...none of them very nice.

    Yesterday he was having too much fun buzzing my dogs and other people's dogs (never hitting them, just zipping close and then checking off to do a few laps) that he completely ignored me. No lure, no fist, no nothing. He would skim right over my head to go somewhere else. @$#W$%$@$% goshawk! So I left him and came back a couple hours later. He finally came down. Bastard.

    This morning took him out to see if we could get him any opportunities on collared dove or even crow. The first place we went, he made one good attempt off the fist after a dove, and went up on a pole and wouldn't come back down. 5 minutes later, he came to the lure. So we packed up and went to another spot.

    Right off the bat, Jack bolted off the fist to go buzz the dog, then went and sat on a fencepost. Got him back and marked a collared dove that had just put into a sage bush. Got within 50 yards, flushed it, no interest. Kept walking and a cottontail busted out of the sage in a spot I've never seen them before! I yelled "Sh*t! Bunny!" and Jack launched off the fist after it. We ended up flushing 4 more after that, 3 of which Jack put chases in on....half-assed ones, but chases. Then a passage redtail came in and Jack almost got eaten...it finally wandered off, and he went half-heartedly after a couple of collared doves, and basically ignored the baggie bird we set out...he lost interest even as his hunger should have been increasing.

    When he finally took the baggie, he mantled for a second and then settled down and started to pluck a little bit, but wasn't acting all that hungry. I sat down next to him to wait and he was fine, let me clip him in without even noticing, and then I offered a tidbit from my fingers and he flipped shit! Chittering and kakking at the hand with the tidbit and abandoned the baggie. WTF???? My right hand suddenly became a scary monster.

    I offered him an opened up bird on the fist and he reluctantly hopped to it, and sat on the fist the whole way back looking and acting like a wild passage bird. Never touched the food. Got him loaded into the box, wholly frustrated with him and whatever it was I did, and took him home. Let him out of the box, he ran to his bath pan, hopped in and took a few drinks and a bath and acted like nothing was wrong. Crazy birds!

    I've been warned that imprint goshawks can get like this right around/after penning time...tonight we're going to do some very basic relationship OC games...CR for rousing, preening, anything calm.
    I'm reluctant to post the bad behavior, but I'm committed to making an honest account of my experience with him...and this is just one of those things. There were definitely some positives today, but the negatives are the things that stick out more.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ally View Post
    Between yesterday and today, Blackjack has earned a few new names...none of them very nice.

    I'm reluctant to post the bad behavior, but I'm committed to making an honest account of my experience with him...and this is just one of those things. There were definitely some positives today, but the negatives are the things that stick out more.
    Time to cut his weight and get serious! Also sounds like "dispersal" came early... If you don't post the bad behavior, nobody can advise you on what to do about it. Cut his weight and get him used to all the things he used to be used to going on all over again.
    Richard Brunotte
    Colorado

  18. #158
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    That's kinda what I was thinking too. I'm further north than most folks here except for Canada, so it would make sense to me that dispersal comes a little earlier here than it does the further south you get.

    He's been self-regulating his weight a bit, so for anyone who's curious, he was at 732g when I took him out this morning.

    Of course, I went back out there just a few minutes ago to make sure he'd eaten his meal (any time a hungry bird isn't that interested in food it worries me...) and he'd devoured it. Turned his head upside down to look at me when I came into the chamber...little brat.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  19. #159
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    Do you think that the wild RT coming in to eat him might have upset him?
    Meridith
    "I've spent the better part of the past year as a multi-dimensional wavelength of celestial intent."

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ally View Post
    That's kinda what I was thinking too. I'm further north than most folks here except for Canada, so it would make sense to me that dispersal comes a little earlier here than it does the further south you get.

    He's been self-regulating his weight a bit, so for anyone who's curious, he was at 732g when I took him out this morning.

    Of course, I went back out there just a few minutes ago to make sure he'd eaten his meal (any time a hungry bird isn't that interested in food it worries me...) and he'd devoured it. Turned his head upside down to look at me when I came into the chamber...little brat.
    I've been through the dispersal thing several times. They quite often act the perfect angel and alternate instantly to the devil himself and back again within a matter of minutes. I've had them lean over backwards and fall off the fist and fly away, only to return shortly as if nothing had happened. I've also seen them fly away without looking back. If you can relocate them, they will often fly right back to the fist or lure as though nothing happened. It's a very dangerous period where you can lose the bird if you're not real careful.

    What does the breeder say the bird's flight weight should be? What was his father's flight weight?
    Richard Brunotte
    Colorado

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    Hi Richard...the answer to your question about the father's flying weight...unknown, I haven't flown him, but he is from Kitzman stock and is ten years old. I bought him last year as a proven donor from John Brennan. The female is from Steve Kauffer's project and I imprinted her 5 years ago. She flies jacks at 920 grams, and hunts bunnies and ducks up to 1000 grams. Although I never flew the tiercel I do trust the breeder whom I purchased him from. The male I held back this year is now flying at 690 grams and is doing great. I suspect his weight will increase as his confidence grows. Kirk Bernard also has one of my tiercels and he reports his bird is currently at 775 grams but hasn't started cutting yet. His bird is from a different female. In your experience concerning weights...do babies tend to get their size from the male or the female? I'm guessing your answer will be from the male....hence your question.
    Lew Souder
    "The proper function of man is to live, not to exist.? Jack London

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    I produced one female this year that is being flown by a first year general. He reports her flying weight to be around 850 grams.
    Lew Souder
    "The proper function of man is to live, not to exist.? Jack London

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    Thanks for the info Lew I would have had no idea how to answer that.

    Still in the same crazy, wild mindset for his evening meal last night, Jack refused to even come to the lure, so he lost out. This morning his attitude was much improved. I took him out of the mew and he did foot the glove a little aggressively but once he figured out that there was nothing there he quieted down. Made him work hard for his breakfast and he came screaming into the lure better than he's ever done.

    Transferred him onto the fist for his meal and he mantled a little harder than usual but still quieted down after only a minute. Took tidbits out of my fingers without a problem, unlike yesterday. Soon as his meal was over, fluffed up and put a footup and seems to be his old sweet self...for now.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  24. #164
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    Welcome to the fun! My last male imprint gos went what yours is going through now. He did what I called "random bates of fear" they act really strange. Hang in there and be careful. Get a metabolism chart on him going now. Dont loose time like I did. Read McDermotts chapter on metabolism and weight control. It will make his behaviors make more sense.
    Isaac

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    Quote Originally Posted by lewsouder View Post
    Hi Richard...the answer to your question about the father's flying weight...unknown, I haven't flown him, but he is from Kitzman stock and is ten years old. I bought him last year as a proven donor from John Brennan. The female is from Steve Kauffer's project and I imprinted her 5 years ago. She flies jacks at 920 grams, and hunts bunnies and ducks up to 1000 grams. Although I never flew the tiercel I do trust the breeder whom I purchased him from. The male I held back this year is now flying at 690 grams and is doing great. I suspect his weight will increase as his confidence grows. Kirk Bernard also has one of my tiercels and he reports his bird is currently at 775 grams but hasn't started cutting yet. His bird is from a different female. In your experience concerning weights...do babies tend to get their size from the male or the female? I'm guessing your answer will be from the male....hence your question.
    It seems like a gender based trait with females flying at around what the mother did and males what the father did. But they are all individuals and get genetics from both parents, so there is a bit of variation.
    Richard Brunotte
    Colorado

  26. #166
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    728g --
    I started my rat breeding project today...as much as I love to support those retailers, my pocketbook can't handle it

    I also scored 2 new hunting spots, courtesy of a friend of the family. One property has hungarian partridge on it, and the other has pheasants AND huns, both within about a 30 minutes drive. I am QUITE excited Also got a plea to come out and shoot as many gophers as I possibly can. As long as I shoot them and inspect them myself to make sure the bullets are either passed clean through or removed, I feel safe feeding them.

    Since Jack refused his dinner last night, he was hungry this morning. He got a smaller meal than usual early this morning on the long lure call I mentioned earlier, and tonight was RP's until he stopped returning to the fist of his own accord and went to his perch, and gave more tidbits with hooding drills (still have not struck the braces, will be doing so by the end of the week) and then the rest of his meal on the lure with me handing him tidbits with the scary monster right hand. His attitude was MUCH better with the hunger drive up and his mind focused on working for his food rather than screwing off. Still a little brat :P
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  27. #167
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    8/5/2012
    708g

    Jack is in full dispersal mode, and his weight still needs to come down. I am more a fan of Increase exercise to increase hunger, but if he's not hungry enough to make the effort to get the food, he's going to have to come down before he can be built back up.

    He had a baggie again yesterday and came to it much faster, but mantled for a minute and danced around with it and then went to playing with it...wasn't focused on eating, and he had been 24 hours without food. With all the pieces he tore off and played with and dropped, he probably only had half of it.

    He's definitely got the "bipolar goshawk" thing going on, where one minute he'll be his sweet self and then he'll be a lunatic. He calls at me when he sees me if he's at home in the mew and when I go up to him, but as with Brian and Blue, once I get him on the fist and work with him, he quiets down. If we're somewhere OTHER than home, he's very quiet all around. I'm trying to use this to my advantage as he learns to deal with hunger--I'm taking him other places to feed him and work with him.

    He's completely hard penned now and we've been doing some hooding work. I can get it on him and leave it on him for a few seconds but he doesn't like it. However, he doesn't really dodge it either--he gets clicked and jackpotted each time it comes off. My goal is to get to striking the braces by the end of the week, on a night where he is very tired and I can leave him hooded over night.

    Still no aggression towards me. Just weathering the storm
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  28. #168
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    Ally,

    Hows it going? You weathering out the storm with Blackjack?
    Isaac

  29. #169
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    Oh we're getting there. Sorry for the lack of updates--not much exciting to report. I'm slowly lowering Jack's weight and as it comes off he's willing to work harder for his food, which is getting some of his pent-up energy released. Playing a lot of OC games to direct that energy away from me and make the wheels turn so he has something to focus on.

    He does do some screaming now, when we're at the house, but if we're elsewhere he quiets down. I am hoping it goes away as he starts hunting and killing on his own.

    Struck the braces on the hood for the first time Friday night and he threw a fit about it...did about 8 RP's intermixed with jump ups before doing it in 90 degree heat to tire his feathered butt out. He got a CR and a whole quail when removing it in the morning.

    Hooded him again last night after doing a bunch of launcher leash jump ups and tidbit hunts and he leaned back from it a little bit but didn't dodge or snake his head. Was upset briefly again when the braces closed but calmed down a lot faster and I caught him with his foot up. He's currently sitting in the kitchen with a foot up and fluffed out. He has a whole DOC waiting for him on the lure when it comes off.

    Just working through his nasty attitude and noise levels, waiting for the weather to cool off and him to get tuned into hunting. So good luck to everyone else whose going through the same thing

    Right after the hood went on for the first time....not a happy camper.


    The second night, a few hours later.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  30. #170
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    8/12/2012
    690g

    Tonight I had Jack freelofting in the house to keep his mind busy while I ate some dinner...but I learned my lesson.

    I was sitting on the couch with a salad (read: green, orange carrots, NOTHING that looks remotely like meat) when I hear the wings, and Blackjack swooped in, snatched a talonful of salad out of my bowl, and was gone before I could even react. He took it to the back of the couch, looked at it, and then proceeded to flick every piece in a different direction, disgusted with his prize. I couldn't decide whether to swear at him or laugh at him.

    So after that, we got down to business for his evening workout. His hunger drive has been getting a lot better, and after he comes down about another 10-15g I may be willing to take him out again and try to get him some slips, depending on his attitude.

    He's been mantling pretty hard over the lure and trying to go hide with it, so I've been coming up with a plan to improve his attitude. It seems like all I've been doing is coming up with new plans, modifying old ones, and either heading off or fixing problems...ugh, goshawks!

    So the evening started with launcher leash jump-ups. When he began to fail to reach the glove or refuse to jump to it at a certain height, we transitioned to restrained pursuits to tidbits on the ground and un-weighted jump-ups back to the glove. When his launch off the glove begins to get slow, we transitioned to my new game.

    I toss out the lure and let him attack it unhindered (no restraint). I CR'ed the attack of the lure to reinforce, and then fed him a jackpot reward of tidbits while he stood on the lure. I controlled the way he accessed the food, so mantling was doing him no good--he had to reach up above his head and be patient to receive his reward. Then I tossed one tidbit away with my flushing cue, he chases it, CR, and gets the tidbit. Then the lure recall cue, he comes back to the lure and foots it, CR and small jackpot reward from my fingers (3-4 tidbits). Repeat for 5-10 repetitions.

    Finally, he remains on the lure, and sees the tidbits obvious and available in my fingers. He has to look down at the lure and foot it to earn his reward. It worked extremely well....in hindsight I should have been doing this more vigorously a *lot* sooner, but better late than never.

    Once his behavior says he's ready to go, we'll go out and try some actual hunting again. Getting close...
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  31. #171
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    At 83 days old today...not everything is going as planned.
    His noise level has increased to a level I can hardly tolerate. I hate screaming, and I am hoping and praying it goes away. I hate posting it because I don't like that things aren't going the way I want them to but...there you are.

    Jack didn't want to work very hard for dinner tonight, so he didn't get much to eat. He did about 10 launcher leash jump ups and then quit. So he got a couple of hooding drills with jackpot rewards--first time he dodged a little, but after the jackpot the second and third times he nearly stuffed his face into it.

    After I struck the braces he still threw a fit for about 5 minutes before he settled down...and he scratches at the hood more than I'm used to. I've checked for fit on the gape and made sure there were no wet spots on the eye panels when I take it off--and had a friend of mine who's a great hoodmaker look at it and she agreed the fit was fine...so I'm not sure why he scratches as much as he does. Maybe his eyelashes are brushing the edges but it's not touching his actual eye?

    I hope I can get him out this week some time on some game. Hopefully that will refocus him.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  32. #172
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    Wow Ally, I've got to say you've got a very complicated plan going there. Launcher leash jump ups, restrained pursuits, tidbits to the ground, clicker training, still free lofting in your house with an 80 day old gos that snatches your salad out of your bowl. I haven't read your whole thread but have you taken him out in the woods or wherever you plan to fly him and let him fly around? Call him to the glove, call him to the lure. Provide some good baggies etc. etc. He sounds really frustrated to me. Not trying to be negative but I've got a imprint about the same age and ya, he's got issues, but we keep it REALLY simple. Cuz goshawks like it simple and they like routine. I leave him in the mews all day. He squawks in the am till about 8:00 and then is quiet unless he sees me in the yard. I go out and pick him up late afternoon. I put him on the scale, put him in the box, and either take him out in the country and fly around the woods or in a meadow for a baggie quail. He chases anything the jrt flushes, even caught a few mice. When we don't go out we play hide the lure and I always have the jrt near buy. It is so simple it is crazy. Imprint goshawks don't have a lot going on in their head so I like to keep it simple.
    Doug
    Inside every cynical.person is a disappointed idealist.

  33. #173
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    To clarify...

    I don't freeloft him in the house on a regular basis, he's too old for that...just happened to have him loose that time. Thought it was a funny story, not really open for discussion.

    The last time I had him out in the field he refused the glove, the lure, and almost refused the baggie. If I wouldn't have had the baggie I might not have gotten him back for a while. He's also in dispersal mode...if I don't have at least a little field control, there's a possibility I could watch him migrate over the horizon. You can understand where a large monetary investment possibly flying away could be a concern...

    The jump ups, RP's, etc. are for muscle building and to wear him out so he has an outlet for that energy--it's not overly complicated, just working to get food. All things that he knows how to do. He'll be out in the field again by this weekend. They've got more going on in their heads than most people think they do...but I agree, an established routine can help. Remember, I am using OC to shape behaviors and reduce aggression--which in that, at least, I have succeeded...he doesn't demonstrate aggression towards me at all. He's taking the hood well.

    Just trying to post the bad with the good for others to learn from should they care to try the Steve Layman/OC route. I haven't done perfectly, so I'm trying to illustrate where and what is happening. At this time, I'm not open to switching my training style. Thanks though, will keep your words in mind.
    ~~~Ally~~~ Missoula, MT
    If you dislike a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, you are a mile away from them, and have their shoes.

  34. #174
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    Ally, I admire your willingness to try the oc training route and also your willingness to share the journey. I have to check myself every now and then when I display the old man behaviors like "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" syndrome. It drives my wife nuts. I'm sure there are better ways to skin the cat so to speak and I really need to be more open to those methods.

    Here's what I've leaned about goshawks and aggression. As we all know they are very aggressive by nature. Agreed?? My first imprint female that I pulled from a nest in 91 taught me what aggression was all about. Shortly after penning I started to cut her weight, went out to the mews one day were I had her tethered and picked her up on a leather glove (not a gauntlet) She bound one foot to the glove and the other on my bare wrist. Scared the hell out of me. I called my sponsor and he said, "get a welding glove, and get her killing stuff". Agression towards me went away and she was one of the best game hawks I've flown. I learned that if their natural aggression can be directed at a very young age to game they won't be aggressive to the handler. It's a very direct approach that worked very well on the next two imprints I flew and also on the current imprint.
    As far as the dispersal mode, I'm sure it exists but I've never had to worry about it. When growing up if they are not killing baggies they are fed on the lure and jumped to the glove for feeding and eventually directly to the glove. I can honestly say I've never had an issue with field control during the dispersal stage. Granted I have had situations of reluctance but always felt like I had control. He is around 90 days now and shows that reckless abandon towards quarry that we all love about goshawks. He's caught two mice (whooo-hoo), chased several bunnies, and caught pretty much every baggie quail in everyway imaginable including penetrating some very think cover for them. He hasn't had a break away yet but he looks for me to finish the kill and transfers to the glove willingly.

    I am very fortunate to have access to meadows, grassy fields, and woodlots all within 15 minutes so I haven't had to do those things like jump ups and rp's to muscle up the bird. Which is a good thing as I am probably not smart enough to do anything that complicated. But I admire anyone who will go to those lengths to condition a bird if other more natural sources are not available.
    Sorry, went on a rant there.
    Doug
    Inside every cynical.person is a disappointed idealist.

  35. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut View Post
    Ally, I admire your willingness to try the oc training route and also your willingness to share the journey. I have to check myself every now and then when I display the old man behaviors like "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" syndrome. It drives my wife nuts. I'm sure there are better ways to skin the cat so to speak and I really need to be more open to those methods.

    Here's what I've leaned about goshawks and aggression. As we all know they are very aggressive by nature. Agreed?? My first imprint female that I pulled from a nest in 91 taught me what aggression was all about. Shortly after penning I started to cut her weight, went out to the mews one day were I had her tethered and picked her up on a leather glove (not a gauntlet) She bound one foot to the glove and the other on my bare wrist. Scared the hell out of me. I called my sponsor and he said, "get a welding glove, and get her killing stuff". Agression towards me went away and she was one of the best game hawks I've flown. I learned that if their natural aggression can be directed at a very young age to game they won't be aggressive to the handler. It's a very direct approach that worked very well on the next two imprints I flew and also on the current imprint.
    As far as the dispersal mode, I'm sure it exists but I've never had to worry about it. When growing up if they are not killing baggies they are fed on the lure and jumped to the glove for feeding and eventually directly to the glove. I can honestly say I've never had an issue with field control during the dispersal stage. Granted I have had situations of reluctance but always felt like I had control. He is around 90 days now and shows that reckless abandon towards quarry that we all love about goshawks. He's caught two mice (whooo-hoo), chased several bunnies, and caught pretty much every baggie quail in everyway imaginable including penetrating some very think cover for them. He hasn't had a break away yet but he looks for me to finish the kill and transfers to the glove willingly.

    I am very fortunate to have access to meadows, grassy fields, and woodlots all within 15 minutes so I haven't had to do those things like jump ups and rp's to muscle up the bird. Which is a good thing as I am probably not smart enough to do anything that complicated. But I admire anyone who will go to those lengths to condition a bird if other more natural sources are not available.
    Sorry, went on a rant there.
    Doug,

    I'm listening to what you have to say to. How much did you have to drop your bird to get him to respond to game? I'm just wondering how much non tame hacked birds usually loose before showing interest in chasing stuff.
    Isaac

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