2012 gos imprint

[Richard]

I guess it's time to start my own thread on this bird. I'm still not sure on the gender, because it's a rather strange bird. It was pulled from a nest with severe quarry shortage in the vicinity. That's one of the things we noticed while walking in, searching for an alternate nest that seems to have blown down, and while taking the eyass. No birds singing, no squirrels chittering, no snowshoe hare sign, and no food reserves in the nest. This nest usually has four young, and I think that only the oldest and the youngest were still alive. The other bird was definitely a female and about 5-6 days older than this one. The other two probably became food as they passed away. There are no Cain and Able records with goshawks, but once they die, they do become food in a hard situation.

Anyway, we thought the bird looked like a female at first, because the tarsi and toes were swollen. After a few days of good feedings, the swelling went away, and it started looking more like a tiercel. Then the feet started growing and took on female length but tiercel skinniness; 4 3/4" from tip of hallux talon to tip of middle talon. The tarsi are also real long but skinny. The beak and cere look more male, but the weight is now up around 800 grams, which is way higher than a tiercel from this area should be at this age. The body looks real large, but it's hard to say, because it has the heaviest down I've seen on a gos.

It was very fearful when taken even though it was only about 17 days old. I think that probably had to do with the larger, older sister and having to fight for whatever food it could get. The morning after we took it, it cast a huge pellet made up mostly of mouse fur that was real soggy. I'm thinking that it only got whatever was left over after the other bird ate.

It has now calmed down and appears to be imprinted on me. We put squeak and small stuffed toys in the nest a few days ago, and it went right to playing with them. I'll be using the Brunotte method of imprinting on this bird, which is a haphazard way of doing things at best but has turned out some pretty good birds in the past. It consists mainly of spending lots of time with the bird, feeding by hand and forceps, lots of touching, and adapting to whatever the bird seems to need to continue in taming and training...

Here are some photos from take to today:

[Richard]

I guess it's time to start my own thread on this bird. Here are some photos from take to today:[/IMG]

More pics:

[Goshawk635]

It will be an interesting thread to follow. Great photos! I love the aspen nests as we rarely see those here in Washington (a few have been found in that setting and several in alders in Western WA). A smallish female could be a bird to fly on your game base in Colorado. Best of luck to you and Becky!

Phil Smith

[colelkhunter]

Richard,
I am perpetually envious of folks that have Goshawks nesting in their area. Flying a gos has been one of my dreams for some years as a falconer. Now that I have one this season, I want to go and pull my own from a nest. There has to be a great satisfaction that comes with taking your goshawk from the nest to continue it's career. I have done this many times with coops and sharpie, but it just seems different with a Goshawk. Impending doom maybe....

[Richard]

It will be an interesting thread to follow. Great photos! I love the aspen nests as we rarely see those here in Washington (a few have been found in that setting and several in alders in Western WA). A smallish female could be a bird to fly on your game base in Colorado. Best of luck to you and Becky! Phil Smith

Thanks Phil. I always thought that birds nesting in aspen were wed to them probably from being hatched in one. This nest had an alternate in a large lodge pole pine, so that kind of shot that theory. I hope to find the new alternate next year.

This is either a small female or large male, so it should be good for everything except jacks. And we have a big female HH with male backup for them.

[allredone]

Thanks Phil. I always thought that birds nesting in aspen were wed to them probably from being hatched in one. This nest had an alternate in a large lodge pole pine, so that kind of shot that theory. I hope to find the new alternate next year.

I suspect there is still something to your theory. Hawks of all kinds have been shown to "imprint" on nest surroundings. For good reason too!! Mauritius Island Kestrels were near wiped out by introduced tree climbing predators but a few cliff nesting pairs managed to hang on and today I'm told they are perhaps exclusively cliff nesters.

On the flip side of the trees vs. cliff equation before DDT extirpated most continental (not costal) peregrines there was a set that would nest in trees. They are working in Poland now to restablish tree nesting peregrines to take advantage of that available habitat. I'd like to see this done in the US. I wonder how many additional pairs of peregrines we could one day see of they would nest in old eagle and osprey nests? I'm told we see a lot of failures in cliff nests because some of the scrapes act like a bucket and the falcon ends up incubating eggs in a mud puddle in particularly wet years.

http://platform.votigo.com/fbcontest...-Contest/21429

[Richard]

I suspect there is still something to your theory. Hawks of all kinds have been shown to "imprint" on nest surroundings. For good reason too!! Mauritius Island Kestrels were near wiped out by introduced tree climbing predators but a few cliff nesting pairs managed to hang on and today I'm told they are perhaps exclusively cliff nesters.

On the flip side of the trees vs. cliff equation before DDT extirpated most continental (not costal) peregrines there was a set that would nest in trees. They are working in Poland now to restablish tree nesting peregrines to take advantage of that available habitat. I'd like to see this done in the US. I wonder how many additional pairs of peregrines we could one day see of they would nest in old eagle and osprey nests? I'm told we see a lot of failures in cliff nests because some of the scrapes act like a bucket and the falcon ends up incubating eggs in a mud puddle in particularly wet years.

http://platform.votigo.com/fbcontest...-Contest/21429

There used to be tree nesting peregrines in some of the SE United States; could probably be done again, but we would for sure want it to be a test population only to prevent "endangering" them all over again! They don't really like the openness the eagles and ospreys do. There were reasons for them nesting only in certain places; the rest is marginal habitat. Bridge nests have that water thing going on under them, and in many places they have people standing by in boats to rescue the young when they bale and land in the water. Cities have cars and windows and very low survival of the young. We do have way more peregrines than ever existed at one time before, but survival rates for the young appears to be way lower because of the habitats they are now using. There used to be four eggs in every eyrie, and now there are two or maybe three; possibly because there are so many other pairs competing with them.

I know; off subject....

[allredone]

There used to be four eggs in every eyrie, and now there are two or maybe three; possibly because there are so many other pairs competing with them..

I hadn't heard that. How interesting. Possibly due to the well documented drop in passerine numbers?

It seems there are more than ever only in some locations. Others have never recovered to pre DDT levels. There were tree nesting peregrines along the Missippi as well. I can only presume they were select trees that were on a bluff perhaps or mature forest edge... Such locations still exist.

[daphilster08]

Nice lookin bird! Look forward to following this thread and seeing him develop!

[wingnut]

Ya, neat looking bird. The little dude has a pretty hefty coat of down. You'll think you have a cottonwood tree in your house soon. I'm not familiar with the Brunotte method. Is he published?

My first two gos were pulled from a nest in the Black Hills. Both nests are inactive now and I was not able to locate another the last two seasons. Although I miss the experience I have to say getting a bird from Barry or for that matter any of the other breeders on here has certainly contributed to a smooth start in the imprinting process.

[harrishawk_79]

Ill be reading this thread good luck on ur up coming season

[hcmcelroy]

I'm with ya Richard its a boy :-)

Harry.

[Richard]

I'm with ya Richard its a boy :-)

Harry.

But Harry! He weighs 870 grams in the morning before eating! That may be a boy up NE, but it's Ms Havoc's hunting weight. Then again, he may just have to lose a lot of weight. He DOES look like a male. Except that the tarsi are about four inches long... (may be an exaggeration) Toes are also long, but tarsi and toes are skinny like a male.

The photos in the previous post were from yesterday morning. This is from yesterday afternoon...









Note how much feather growth there was over about a six hour period. And, as usual, Maddy had to sneak into the basket to "mother" the eyass; or help clean out any lost tidbits.

Oh yeah, here's something I found near the old alternate nest.



I bought mice for Becky's snake this morning, and since they were fresh killed, I gave one to the baby. He bit at it a bit and then got a foot on it and tried tearing at it. I ended up assisting him with dismantling it for his first "hands on the prey" lesson. He was happy for the help and ate the whole thing followed by his regular quail meal.

[hcmcelroy]

Gulp! 870 I intended to say its a boy or a girl. :-)

Good to hear he wants help in eating.

Harry.

[Chris L.]

Hi Richard

He looks great! Thank you for keeping a log of his progress. I look forward to the updates. Please keep the pictures coming.

[Takasho]

Great to see you with this one Richard! I must've missed it somewhere but what happened to Ms. Havoc?

I've seen you're birds fly and no doubt this one will be a killer! Sure wish I was still in CO to watch it progress in person!

[Richard]

Great to see you with this one Richard! I must've missed it somewhere but what happened to Ms. Havoc?

I've seen you're birds fly and no doubt this one will be a killer! Sure wish I was still in CO to watch it progress in person!

Ms Havoc hit a window a couple years ago and started going down hill. Last year she just couldn't seem to come back, and I ended up having to have her put down. That was heart breaking! We had about 17 years together.










This one looks to be a sweetheart; be it male or female. For a Colorado bird it is either a very large male or a very small female. A tweener fosho. If it's not positive one or the other by hard penning, I'll have it DNA tested. Doesn't much matter for hunting, but I'd like to know in advance for breeding.

You gonna make it to the NAFA Meet? We hope to but can't be sure yet.

[Richard]

31 days old now and we're still not sure on the sex! Very large male or very small female.... Here are some updated photos:









Still extreme amounts of down, but the feathers are now showing through.

[Takasho]

Ms Havoc hit a window a couple years ago and started going down hill. Last year she just couldn't seem to come back, and I ended up having to have her put down.

I'm sorry to hear that. I know you two had many good years together!

You gonna make it to the NAFA Meet? We hope to but can't be sure yet.

Probably not this year but next year is in Alamosa, right? I'll be at that one for sure!

[Richard]

Well, I've been pretty sure since she went over 800 grams that this bird is a female. Becky and Laura have been working on convincing me otherwise, but it's just too large to be a mountain male. It does have small boned feet and tarsi, but they are way longer than a typical male from around these parts. Guess I have some changes to make on my reports now.... I reckon she's going to be a light weight.

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,

She should make a good all around hawk. Is she remaining totally tame?

Harry.

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard, She should make a good all around hawk. Is she remaining totally tame? Harry.

I'm thinking that, too. She should be good for everything except jacks, and I usually stay away from them anyway. She is staying nice and tame. I'm sure that the fear she exhibited at the beginning was fear of being eaten and had nothing to do with imprinting on parents. She now allows touching all over with no fear nor objection.

[harrishawk_79]

Sounds like she is doing great and either way will be a great bird with lots of fun and she's Good

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,
Now that we know her sex there is little doubt that she would have imprinted by day 17. Right?

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard,
Now that we know her sex there is little doubt that she would have imprinted by day 17. Right? Harry.

She imprinted just fine Harry!

She weighed in at 950 grams today. And some pics: left is today and right is the 8th.

[Richard]

She imprinted just fine Harry! She weighed in at 950 grams today. And some pics: left is today and right is the 8th.

And here she is this morning; learned a new trick while I wasn't looking.

[Richard]

Thirty six days old now and 950+ grams with 5 1/4" feet. I tossed her a quail this morning to distract her while I prepped her breakfast. She jumped right onto it and went to plucking and eating!.

[BestBeagler]

5 1/4" feet! Nice! Looking great.

[hcmcelroy]

Richard,

Does she have fine bone? The feet appear long but light???

Harry.

[Richard]

Richard, Does she have fine bone? The feet appear long but light??? Harry.

That was one of the things that made it so difficult to sex her; even though the toes are long, they are thin like a tiercel's. The beak and cere are also small for a female.

Forgot to post these earlier;





Having "killed" the rhino for several days already, the quail was no problem!

[Richard]

I had to put a bell on her this morning. I left her sleeping on the table and came back to find her bird watching...



And here she is giving a sexual response to being petted.

[Ally]

And here she is giving a sexual response to being petted.

What a little hussie :P
She looks great. Right on

[Richard]

What a little hussie :P She looks great. Right on

She was even doing that when one of the doxies was snuffling her back feathers. She has certainly grown into a pretty little gal!

[hcmcelroy]

Sounds like she is becoming active. I see color developing toward the end of the toes.

Harry.

[Richard]

Sounds like she is becoming active. I see color developing toward the end of the toes. Harry.

She's becoming too active for our circumstances! I was at the hospital most of the day yesterday, and she must have gotten bored with her nest and the kitchen table area. She has been perching on the chair backs for a few days now, but last night she went to visit Laura in the living room; I guess she sat and sized up the parrots for a bit and then jumped/flew up onto the tray table with the bills I've been working on... Laura got her back to the kitchen by carrying the tray to the table and then turned off the lights to keep her there.

I made light weight jesses for her the other day but hadn't gotten around to putting them on yet. This morning I moved the screen perch to the kitchen and got her to step from a chair back to the fist and held her in front of the perch. She stepped right on and has been sitting there preening and watching the dogs since. Once she was on the perch, I attached the jesses with no problem. Guess I'd best get a bell or two on her soon to get her used to that, too.









They grow up SO fast! And it looks like another day she'll spend alone, since I'll be heading over to the hospital again soon.