Canadian longwing found in NY

[Chrismt89]

I have a saker or saker hybrid that was bred this year by Jim Wilson. If any one has info please email me at Chrismt22889@gmail.com. She was found in central NY we think possibly lost from Ontario.

Thanks,
Chris

[sharptail]

Is it black?

[rkumetz]

I would be interested to see what is involved in repatriating a falcon that crossed the border sans the correct paperwork. On the other hand since
the government is out of business maybe this is a lucky break for the owner of that bird.

[falcipiter]

Chris,
When you do locate the owner and they are from Canada, take my advise and just go on up to a remote location on the border and have them fly a pigeon and let loose the Saker. Both of you are legal and it will be way better than trying to get the paperwork. It took me just shy of six months to transfer a Finnish Goshawk to a well known breeder in Ontario. Good luck.

[Tom Scheib]

:-]

[latham]

Chris,
When you do locate the owner and they are from Canada, take my advise and just go on up to a remote location on the border and have them fly a pigeon and let loose the Saker. Both of you are legal and it will be way better than trying to get the paperwork. It took me just shy of six months to transfer a Finnish Goshawk to a well known breeder in Ontario. Good luck.

This isn't a new concept. The Archives has documentation regarding Jack Young being prevented from transporting his intermewed passage peregrine across the border (MT or ND) by Canadian customs. But, the agent was OK with Jack's son staying in the US and Jack luring her into Canada, blocking her out, and going back for his son - and this was many years before they were protected....some things never change. Cheers, Bob

[JRedig]

I wonder if the bird had it's health cert to cross the border...it's gonna be in big trouble!

[rkumetz]

This isn't a new concept. The Archives has documentation regarding Jack Young being prevented from transporting his intermewed passage peregrine across the border (MT or ND) by Canadian customs. But, the agent was OK with Jack's son staying in the US and Jack luring her into Canada, blocking her out, and going back for his son - and this was many years before they were protected....some things never change. Cheers, Bob

I live very close to the border (I can walk in less than 10 minutes) so I investigated a few years ago as to what I would have to do to recover a bird if it crossed the border on its own. After months of calls and such the USFWS agent that I asked in the first place finally concluded that the only way to do it before I was too old to need the bird any more was to put the bird on a post in Canada and lure it across after crossing the usual way myself. Fortunately with no government there will be nobody to hassle me while I am doing that should it be necessary. Actually the border patrol tends to be very useful whenever I go looking for a bird that is "on walkabout". They drive the area all day every day so they know what belongs there and what doesn't plus they all have binoculars and are mostly bored to death.

[footbound]

I have a very long story about crossing the border from New Brunswick back to Maine with a peregrine 20 years ago just after the "Perfect Storm". It took most of a week but we made it and now Prince Edward Island has legal falconry and nobody knows how or why.

[sharptail]

I have a very long story about crossing the border from New Brunswick back to Maine with a peregrine 20 years ago just after the "Perfect Storm". It took most of a week but we made it and now Prince Edward Island has legal falconry and nobody knows how or why.

You might just as well tell the story, don't you think? Oh wait, this is NAFEX, you may get challanged on your side of things, or some such nonsense, maybe not. Still some would enjoy hearing.

[RyanAnt]

Funny, that is the first thing I though. Just get the bird to flying weight and lure her in from the other side.

[Pedioecetes]

Doesn't Jim know who the falconer is that got it from him?

[Chesapeakehawk]

Yes that is all resolved, the bird was lost from an abatement site in Drummondsivlle, Quebec and was found 300 miles away in NY. The problem of getting the falcon back to the folks who lost it is not yet solved, they are working on the paperwork.

[sharptail]

What I have been told was allowed in the past, was for one falconer on one side of the border to hand the bird across to it's owner on the other side. It seems the law has a clause about intent to unlawfully cross that has been a saving grace. I was also told that US farmers along the border were allowed to retrieve equipment that had blown across in wind storms.

[rkumetz]

What I have been told was allowed in the past, was for one falconer on one side of the border to hand the bird across to it's owner on the other side. It seems the law has a clause about intent to unlawfully cross that has been a saving grace. I was also told that US farmers along the border were allowed to retrieve equipment that had blown across in wind storms.

That would not meet the letter of the law which allows you to do this. If either falconer's arm crosses the line they are importing the bird into the US.
The border people are pretty cool about things but this animal import thing is something they don't deal with on a regular basis except for dogs and cats.
They are not encouraged to think (particularly not outside the box) so they are reluctant to do anything that is out of the ordinary. If the bird crosses the border by itself (even if it hopped from fist to fist) that would mean that neither falconer had crossed the border with the bird thus importing it. I realize that this is all rubbish but the US CITES people are a bunch of mindless bureaucrats who have lost site of the fact that they work for us.

[rchurchi]

I've been working with Canadian CITES/US CITES and CFIA to get this thing back for my friend in Quebec. Before I jynx the process by proclaiming how I did it, I will hold off until the bird is back in Canada. Don't want to give people the wrong idea if it isn't something that's actually possible. Going the paperwork route MAY not be as complicated as some might think.

[rkumetz]

I've been working with Canadian CITES/US CITES and CFIA to get this thing back for my friend in Quebec. Before I jynx the process by proclaiming how I did it, I will hold off until the bird is back in Canada. Don't want to give people the wrong idea if it isn't something that's actually possible. Going the paperwork route MAY not be as complicated as some might think.

You stand a lot better chance going north than south. My dealings with the Canadian CITES people were fairly pleasant including them giving me a 24/7 pager number for the on duty CITES officer. My dealings with US CITES revealed a bloated bureaucracy where either nobody has any idea what they are doing or they are determined to stick it to the tax paying public. If congress needs suggestions on what to cut from the government budget my vote would be that they empty out the CITES offices and turn it into self storage cubicles to rent out and pay down the deficit. Oh yes, In case you haven't noticed I am not at all fond of them.

[rchurchi]

Well now that you mention it, our only hold up now is just a simple approval from the US CITES folks. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt having been off work for a couple weeks.

Robin

[rkumetz]

Well now that you mention it, our only hold up now is just a simple approval from the US CITES folks. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt having been off work for a couple weeks.

Robin

With respect to US CITES the best advice came from Ronald Reagan: "Trust but verify".

I would call them every day if necessary until this bird is repatriated. I respect your optimism but in this case it is misplaced.

[footbound]

I would second that. In addition write to them. They will respond to letters..at least the feds I have had to deal with. Every bureaucrat lives in fear of the bureaucrat above him any action or decision is a mine field. Another option is your rep. One time I waited over 90 days for a simple license at the state level and called my state senator over it. The commissioner in charge of the bureaucracy was on the phone to me the next day and the permit was in the mail. Try explaining that this abatement birds job is to insure the safety of the flying public or whatever it does for a living. International commerce between the US and Canada is too important for this needless delay...lives could be at stake...or something.

[rkumetz]

I would second that. In addition write to them. They will respond to letters..at least the feds I have had to deal with. Every bureaucrat lives in fear of the bureaucrat above him any action or decision is a mine field. Another option is your rep. One time I waited over 90 days for a simple license at the state level and called my state senator over it. The commissioner in charge of the bureaucracy was on the phone to me the next day and the permit was in the mail. Try explaining that this abatement birds job is to insure the safety of the flying public or whatever it does for a living. International commerce between the US and Canada is too important for this needless delay...lives could be at stake...or something.

Air safety is a hotbutton in congress at the moment. Mention "AIR SAFETY" and you will get their attention. Congress is leaning heavily on the FAA for a number of reasons and pushing the "Pilots' Bill of Rights".
I use my senators' offices regularly to lean on the FCC for various things and one call from them is worth a mound of calls, emails and registered letters from you.