2015 NAFA Meet - Hutchinson, Kansas

[wyodjm]

Okay, so I was looking at the meet info, and it says that anyone hunting needs proof of hunter education. In Colorado, we don't need to take a hunter Ed course for falconry. I remember at the 2010 meet in Dodge City, one could buy an apprentice license to defer this hunter education requirement. This link says that it can only be done for those 15, and under. I'm slightly older than 15, so I'm wondering if we had special allowances to use this last time?

Thoughts? It would be an inconvenience to take hunters Ed before the NAFA meet.

http://ksoutdoors.com/Services/Education/Hunter

Hi Jenni:

That's a good question. I just spoke with Kevin Jones, head of law enforcement for the Kansas Dept. of Wildlife, Parks and Tourism. Kevin is a good guy. I knew him when he was a game warden in Wyoming before he moved to Kansas about a dozen years ago.

Here's the deal: The hunter education certification requirement is a state statute. If you want to hunt in Kansas (with a hawk or gun) and your age falls under the criteria of the requirements, then you need to have successfully completed an approved hunter education class. Either from Kansas or another state. Kansas honors other state hunter ed. programs. I hope this helps.

Here's a copy of the State Statute:

Article 9

32-920. Hunter education requirements; adult supervision of youths required, when; apprentice hunting license. (a) Except as provided by subsections (d) and (e), no person who is born on or after July 1, 1957, and is 16 or more years of age shall hunt in this state on land other than such person's own land unless the person has been issued a certificate of completion of an approved hunter education course. If such person is required by law to obtain a hunting license, the person shall attest to or exhibit proof of completion of such course to the person issuing the license at the time of purchasing the license. If such person is not required by law to obtain a hunting license, is less than 27 years of age but 16 or more years of age or is less than 16 but 12 or more years of age and hunting without adult supervision, the person shall be in possession of the person's certificate of completion of such course while hunting. A person may purchase for another person, under rules and regulations adopted by the secretary in accordance with K.S.A. 32-805, and amendments thereto, a lifetime hunting or combination hunting and fishing license without the license recipient's first having been issued a certificate of completion of an approved hunter education course.
(b) A person less than 12 years of age shall not hunt unless under the direct supervision of an adult who is 18 or more years of age.
(c) A person who is 12 or more years of age but less than 16 years of age and who has not been issued a certificate of completion of an approved hunter education course shall not hunt unless under the direct supervision of an adult who is 18 or more years of age.
(d) A person who is 16 or more years of age may obtain a one-time deferral of completion of hunter education that is valid until the end of the current license year. Such person may purchase an apprentice hunting license but shall not hunt unless under the direct supervision of a licensed adult who is 18 or more years of age.
(e) Completion of an approved hunter education course shall not be required to obtain a special controlled shooting area hunting license valid only for licensed controlled shooting areas.

-----------------------------------------

Effective July 1, 2014 individuals 16 or older may purchase a two-time purchase deferral of the Hunter Education requirements by purchasing an Apprentice hunting license. Holders of Apprentice hunting licenses must hunt under the supervision of a licensed hunter age 18 or older.

Hunter Education Certification issued by any state, Canadian Province, or some foreign jurisdictions are deemed to meet the requirements of Kansas Law.

[Saluqi]

Is this a new requirement? I went to the 2010 meet in Dodge City, KS and bought a license and didn't provide any proof of having taken the hunter's safety course. I took it in 1974 when I was 12 years old back in NY state, there's no way I'd ever be able to track it down now.

[wyodjm]

Is this a new requirement? I went to the 2010 meet in Dodge City, KS and bought a license and didn't provide any proof of having taken the hunter's safety course. I took it in 1974 when I was 12 years old back in NY state, there's no way I'd ever be able to track it down now.

Hi Paul:

I have no idea how old the statute is. The way it was explained to me was you don't have to show actual proof you have completed a hunter ed. class. When purchasing a hunting license in Kansas from a licensing agent (e.g Walmart) you sign testifying that you have successfully completed the required hunter ed. class.

I don't know any state that doesn't require hunter ed. now before purchasing a hunting license. However, each state has their own different birth date cut offs.

[Saluqi]

Okay, so I went to the Kansas online G&F license page (https://www.ks.wildlifelicense.com/index_hf.php) and attempted to buy a license, and all it asks for is your word that you have taken the hunter's safety. So, you can buy a hunting license without physical proof of having taken the hunter's safety course. I thought that this was the case, as five years ago I bought my license online for KS, they still had all of my data in their system.

No worries if you do not have proof of having taken your hunter's safety class. If you have not taken a hunter's safety course I highly recommend that you do so, it could save your life.

[wyodjm]

Okay, so I went to the Kansas online G&F license page (https://www.ks.wildlifelicense.com/index_hf.php) and attempted to buy a license, and all it asks for is your word that you have taken the hunter's safety. So, you can buy a hunting license without physical proof of having taken the hunter's safety course. I thought that this was the case, as five years ago I bought my license online for KS, they still had all of my data in their system.

No worries if you do not have proof of having taken your hunter's safety class. If you have not taken a hunter's safety course I highly recommend that you do so, it could save your life.

I thought I already explained that. It's also in the actual statute, 4th line down. Your word (shall attest to), not actual proof, is required.

[Saluqi]

I thought I already explained that. It's also in the actual statute, 4th line down. Your word (shall attest to), not actual proof, is required.

Sorry, I missed it.

[forestfalcon]

Ugh. That's really annoying, since KS made an exception last time.

[Saluqi]

Ugh. That's really annoying, since KS made an exception last time.

I don't understand your concern Jenni?

[forestfalcon]

Colorado just doesn't require it to possess a falconry permit, so it's just one more thing to do before the meet. It's just an inconvenience, but I guess necessary to hawk at the meet.

[wyodjm]

Colorado just doesn't require it to possess a falconry permit, so it's just one more thing to do before the meet. It's just an inconvenience, but I guess necessary to hawk at the meet.

You can take the class online Jenni. It's not a big deal. I've been a Hunter Safety Instructor for years. If you need any help just ask. PM me if you like.

[forestfalcon]

You can take the class online Jenni. It's not a big deal. I've been a Hunter Safety Instructor for years. If you need any help just ask. PM me if you like.

I guess that's the way to go, although there's still a 6-8 hour in-person conclusion course. I'm being extra whiny about this since I have a new hawk coming soon, and would rather spend that extra 6-8 hours out training and hawking!

[skooky20]

I got my trapping authorization for Kansas in the mail today, only took 11 days to get it back, so looking forward to kansas

[mjh1990]

Chris are you planning on trapping a prairie falcon while there?

[mjh1990]

Can anyone tell me if the time of year and location of the meet would be conducive for trapping a prairie falcon?

[skooky20]

Matt, i will be trying for a harlan's red tail first, however a nice tiercel prairie isn't out of the question. i will be bringing enough traps for both

[mjh1990]

I'm thinking about a tiercel prairie depending on what my situation is like at the time. My second redtail was a Harlans used a weighted pigeon harness to catch it jumped out to grab it, I thought it was caught hopped out ran up to it..... And it just flipped over on its back not a noose around it. It turned out to be the most loyal hawk I've ever flown I started to do blind recalls with it where I'd walk around a corner and call and he'd come looking

[Bird_Dog]

I find the easiest way to attract a prairie falcon in Kansas is to fly a tiercel peregrine. Works all the time. And if you want a red-tailed hawk, just wait for your tiercel peregrine to catch a duck. A RT will be on its way to kill the tiercel peregrine in no time.

-- scott

[Sader762]

A lot of states are moving towards requiring hunter education classes. It's not a bad idea to go ahead and take one, that way you are good to go for which ever state you decide to hunt in down the road. Plus, it could actually teach you something of use.

[HGlider]

A lot of states are moving towards requiring hunter education classes. It's not a bad idea to go ahead and take one, that way you are good to go for which ever state you decide to hunt in down the road. Plus, it could actually teach you something of use.

Always have the safety on when walking around with your bird. Don't want them to go off accidentally. Believe it or not I had the security people tell me this at a place I hunted a lot. I have witnesses.

[hawkman1220]

Can anyone tell me if the time of year and location of the meet would be conducive for trapping a prairie falcon?

I trapped a tiercel prairie and merlin the first day of the meet several years back. We were more west close to the CO. border.

[mjh1990]

Thank you for the for the info Tony a female Merlin would work too although I'd prefer a tiercel prairie for partridge if I spotted some out hunting

[FredFogg]

Thank you for the for the info Tony a female Merlin would work too although I'd prefer a tiercel prairie for partridge if I spotted some out hunting

Hey Matt, the 3 times I trapped for prairies in KS, it was pretty much a waste of time east of Dodge City. Sure, you might see a few but the further west you go, the better your chances. And on top of that, depending on the weather and how many have migrated down, early November won't be as good as late November. I am putting in for my trapping permit, so maybe we can do a road trip one day west and go trapping. You can have any male we trap, I will keep a female! LOL

[hawkman1220]

Hey Matt, the 3 times I trapped for prairies in KS, it was pretty much a waste of time east of Dodge City. Sure, you might see a few but the further west you go, the better your chances. And on top of that, depending on the weather and how many have migrated down, early November won't be as good as late November. I am putting in for my trapping permit, so maybe we can do a road trip one day west and go trapping. You can have any male we trap, I will keep a female! LOL

I caught the prairie near Syracuse, KS and the merlin down south near Johnson City KS. There are a lot of prairies down near Liberal and also some back roads as the prairies seemed a bit skittish. Back roads that follow the big double T power lines are the best. We used a small net 24" x 36" on poles to catch all our birds on 2 trips. the second trip we caught a lot of adults before finding a passage. If you get close enough to tell the difference they often bump.

[Chris L.]

I Just booked my room.. see you all there.

If you haven't booked a room yet you better get on it, they are filling up quickly.

[FredFogg]

We used a small net 24" x 36" on poles to catch all our birds on 2 trips. the second trip we caught a lot of adults before finding a passage. If you get close enough to tell the difference they often bump.

Yep, pretty much the same with us. We scoped them out from as far as we could and then would set the trap out about 3 poles away. Not sure how far 3 poles away is but it was pretty far. We didn't have much luck with a pigeon harness other than fly bys and dho ghazza's didn't work to well either as my inexperience of setting them in the dirt road instead of using the grass along the road as a back screen to hide the nest was mostly the problem. We had our best luck using a phai trap. Even caught a merlin with a prairie size phai trap. Man, I love trapping!!!!!!

[hawkman1220]

I hear ya' Fred on loving trapping. Our nets were on arrow shafts but I now have found that the local hardware stores have longer poles. I took Cool Whip plastic containers and used cement to fill and put the poles in the middle and let them harden. My nets were fastened at the top with cotter pins through holes in the shaft. the bottom corners were on split rings that would slide up the poles. If you are using a net setup take extra netting because prairies hit with such speed they pull the nets off the poles. We found one bird about 2 feet past the poles laying in the grass all wrapped up in the net.

[hawkman1220]

Should read 20 feet all wrapped up in the net.

[hawkman1220]

One more bit of information about trapping in west Kansas. there are a lot of cattle feed lots there. Feed lots attract small birds that eat the feed. the small birds attract merlins and prairies especially the males. Driving around the feed lots draws a lot of attention from the people that manage them. We got a good butt chewing from the head vet at one lot because he thought we were scheming to do something to the cattle. If you find birds around the feed lot go show your permits and ask if it is okay to trap them. This guy thought we might be cattle rustlers or something.

[goshawkr]

A lot of states are moving towards requiring hunter education classes. It's not a bad idea to go ahead and take one, that way you are good to go for which ever state you decide to hunt in down the road. Plus, it could actually teach you something of use.

To the best of my knowledge all states that allow hunting have hunter education requirements, although most have some birthdate exceptions, assuming that if you are over a certain age you were hunting when the requirement was put in place and don't need it.

I had begun work to try and push through an exception to the requirement for falconry hunting in WA, similar to what it appears CO has in place. But I decided I was not in favor of that when a good friend pointed out two things:

1. In WA, there is not a separate license for falconry hunting, meaning that when you buy a hunting license to hunt with your hawk, you are also legally authorized to hunt with any allowed weapon (shotgun, bow, etc.)
2. It really would be a good idea for falconry only hunters to go through the course because there is a decent chance they will be in the field with regular hunters. And while the onus is on the hunter to make sure they are using their weapon safely, if the others in the field with them have a good understanding of what is needed for them to be able to make good safe decisions it helps to avoid accidents. Its also not a bad idea to have them pick up the basic consumptive use conservation aspects that are usually included in these courses.

In reality, item 1. would be fairly straight forward to resolve, but I really like the idea of having our young falconers that may not be familiar with more traditional weapon hunting to have a basic education in that. As an example of that, my basic understanding of shotgun hunting that I received when I took hunter ed (back when I wanted to hunt deer and elk) led me to realize that an inexperienced shotgun hunter could very easily see a goshawk chasing a pheasant as two pheasants during a snap judement and make an honest mistake - so I now give those who are hunting pheasants with guns a very wide berth.

[Goshawk635]

Hi Jenni:



Effective July 1, 2014 individuals 16 or older may purchase a two-time purchase deferral of the Hunter Education requirements by purchasing an Apprentice hunting license. Holders of Apprentice hunting licenses must hunt under the supervision of a licensed hunter age 18 or older.

Not to keep stirring this pot … but

Apprentice license is available to those 16 and OLDER using the two time deferral. All one would need to do is hunt with an over 18 regularly licensed hunter. Do I need my attorney or does that mean Jenni could still buy the Apprentice license and then hawk with a group? (assuming this is her second deferral)

Or maybe I just need to go walk the beach

[calebstroh]

Geoff makes some great points (and sorry to be straying off the topic of the meet)

Hunter education is NOT JUST ABOUT SHOOTING GUNS! Hunter ED is a valuable tool to teach and learn about the environment, safety in the field, game animals, hunting strategies, and the ethics of being an outdoorsperson in this day and age.

I have always felt that we need less regulations in this sport, but this is one of the few things I'm passionate about and I would be happy to see a requirement for ALL falconers to take and pass the hunters safety course in Utah. Again, I HATE unnecessary regulations and we continue to push for simpler regs always....but hunter ED is serious business.

This has been a topic of discussion in Utah; "why should I need to pass hunter ed?" Well the answer is simple...you are going to be hunting your bird on wild game animals in the state. To do so you will need to purchase a hunting license. Falconers are not exempt from knowing game laws and field ethics and as such should be treated just like any other hunter. Its a testament to our sport and the falconers who practice ethical hunting. (Not to beat this dead horse but I know of MANY falconers who don't have an inkling about game laws, ethics, or even species identification...a hunters ed course could go a long way to fix this. As law abiding falconers we should all be concerned about the image such behavior portrays and take actions to better our sport!)

That being said, and in-line with the original question asked, a hunting license may not be required to take certain pest or non-game species in Kansas, like starling, E sparrow, EC doves, etc. Making this conversation a moot topic for those hunting those species.

Anywho, see ya'all in Kansas

Caleb

[skooky20]

was wondering if anyone has a goal to attain while in kansas, i for one will be hoping to catch my first jack and my first fox squirrel. how about anyone else?

[mjh1990]

I'd like to catch my first jack with my ferrug

[Shehawker]

"Edit: Caleb Never mind just reread your post and you answered it there"


Caleb, does Utah not requier a hunters ED for falconers bying upland game permits? Or do you mean being able to become a licensed falconer without it?

Ran into that very situation back as a wee apprentice, I did not come from a hunting background so was surprised by that when I went to go get a upland game permit. Took about a week to take the online course bit by bit after school and one saturday to do the feild day and was done. The course was very informative and fun and whatda know, I do attempt to hunt with a shotgun every once in awhile these days.

[Sader762]

Always have the safety on when walking around with your bird. Don't want them to go off accidentally. Believe it or not I had the security people tell me this at a place I hunted a lot. I have witnesses.

LOL, oh man that is too funny! I'd love to see that caught on video!