New book about owls behaviors and training

[keriana]

I'd like to presente a book I wrote about owls: Nocturnal Mind.
This book talks about the mental of an owl, how it sees the world and how we have to interact with it, its differencies with the diurnal raptors.
I think that understand their behaviors, way of life and mind is the most important to work with them.

[IMG][/IMG]

Nocturnal Mind is available in US through this link:

http://www.lulu.com/shop/anna-sanche...-21906738.html

[Gerkin]

I'm curious if anyone has read this book yet?

[bdyelm]

Bump.... I'd love a comparison of this book and Understanding Owls by Jemima Perry-Jones if anybody has read it yet.

[Gerkin]

Nocturnal Mind is a terrible fantasy story which lacks any hints, tips suggestions or behavioral science.

Its a classic example of a trainer having an illusion of skill, experience & ability when in fact its simply nature over coming adversity.

[keriana]

What’s going to be a great fantasy, it’s the way I’m going to express myself with my level of English…let me apologize for that right now

I perfectly understand that the content is not to anyone’s liking, but this book is not intended to impress, but about being within the reach of everybody and explain simple way my point of view. My approach differs vastly, one has to start with a basic base. I could be more scientific, but why complicate something simple?

I work for passion and interest to understand these animals and that provides me no profit, aside from the satisfaction from respecting them. The center denies donations, subventions, sponsorship and doesn’t get any benefit with the work of the owls. This only to guarantee the objectivity of the results. All this means that I haven’t interest to say something not objective just for interest and no benefit to share. Over than 150 owls have been the subject of a strict and meticulous study, an intensive field work, deliberated mistakes have been made and rectified, exchanges with several scientific fields and hours analyzing. If skill, experience and ability comes down to train birds and get benefit of its work, without taking the slightest risk and without venture off the beaten path, yes, I lack qualifications, God forbid.

I appreciate your opinion because I think that adversity could be constructive if there is a dialogue and I’m sorry you didn’t appreciate the book, but I would very pleased to speak with you.

[Hawkmom]

There is the www.iaate.org. An organization of bird trainers, founded by falconer Steve Martin of www.naturalencounters.com. And considered one of the best bird trainers in the world, And the late Walter Crawford of www.wbs.org (World Bird Sanctuary). IAATE is the professional organization for bird trainers. I would suggestyou join them, and show them your book. I think that they can offer great constructive ideas.

[Hawkmom]

And of course Jemima Parry-Jones author of Understanding Owls. and her facility is the www.icbp.org.

[Gerkin]

I perfectly understand that the content is not to anyone’s liking

The book was falsely advertised.
Suggesting training techniques and insights into the psychology of owls when in reality all one got was an anthropomorphic story line that didn't culminate in any usable information.

[keriana]

I’m sorry to express myself so bad in English, but I think you don’t understand me.
I don’t have any interest in human performance and I know that these people are very well supervised and don’t need nobody for that. Maybe talk about owls’ brain structure could be interesting, but I think it wouldn’t be convenient in this case. I don’t train animals for show, that’s not my cup of tea and against my way of thinking, but I’m able to highly appreciate this work, above all when it’s done with well-being concern.

It must be said that, the last years, the situation of owls has improved a lot… Most of people don’t make it out with them like before, results are always so disappointing or limited and their reputation is the same or worth. What people have learned very well is that they can have an owl as pet because they are so cute and children know that they love hugs and to be touched….A lot of breeders understood the situation and don’t hesitate to produce 200 to 300 chicks a year which would be very easy to place anywhere. A success story! Fortunately there are people with ethics, but not enough to stop this disaster.
When things goes wrong and situation is getting out of hand, we must open our eyes and admit that maybe we’re flying off course. It doesn’t work….That does not apply great trainers or prestigious centers, but regular people, falconers, etc to whom we made believe it was easy. These people and, above all these birds, don’t need the best trainer of the world or prestigious science dissertations, they just need someone who help them to get out of the shit we left them. Take time for them is the most urgent and important for me, I don’t care about prestige and recognition.
If some people don’t like my work or don’t agree, that’s not a problem, I can understand. I’m picking up the pieces “at the bottom of the ladder” where nobody wants to tarnish its reputation. To belittle or look down on me is very unnecessary and ridiculous…

[Gerkin]

To belittle or look down on me is very unnecessary and ridiculous…

To target a market of which I'm a member, with a completely inaccurate blurb and then to post a complete contradiction to that blurb of yours lends credit to my previous posts.

[Breeze]

Nocturnal Mind is a terrible fantasy story which lacks any hints, tips suggestions or behavioral science.

Its a classic example of a trainer having an illusion of skill, experience & ability when in fact its simply nature over coming adversity.

Wow. Okay, I bought the book and just finished reading it and have to say you are so wrong it isn't even funny. This is an EXCELLENT book, well written and provides the information needed to understand the mind of a nocturnal bird of prey, and from that starting point, be able to work with them; I highly recommend it!

Your comment in a separate post was, ". . . in reality all one got was an anthropomorphic story line that didn't culminate in any usable information". Did you really even READ the book? If so, you missed a LOT of valuable information! Might want to try reading it again.

Yes, the author starts with a description of how the world is viewed, from the point of view of an owl. To do so she HAD to write it as an anthropomorphic story line. Otherwise it would have read, "HOO, HOO" - "Hoo" - "HOO HOO HOO" and so on for a long time. Since MOST humans can't read and understand owl verbage, I believe the anthropomorphic approach was far better.

AFTER describing (very well, in my opinion) the thinking of an owl as changes from day/night occur, and other events in the owl's world take place, she goes on to explain HOW we need to change our behavior to best communicate with the owl. There is a TON of good information in this book and so very happily recommend it.

However, it is not a "cookbook training book" - it deals with how the mind of the nocturnal bird works, principles that must be adhered to, and basic knowledge to allow a person to work with an owl and actually communicate with it in a manner that the owl will appreciate and understand.

Sorry if you read this book and got nothing from it, as you missed a GREAT opportunity to learn something.

THANK YOU, Anna Sanchez for writing this material and sharing your insight into the minds of the Nocturnal raptors! Well done!

[tammylynne]

Well, just ordered it to read...curious!

[Breeze]

I just did, Marcus, and for the small price being asked for this book I'm quite confident I will learn enough to make it worthwhile.

[Betelgeuse]

Not related to this book, but to the author--- I have seen her post useful information when replying to persons having trouble understanding and being successful with owls. As an impartial observer, I found the author's replies generous and informative. I wish I had known her when working with a GHO a few years back.

[rkumetz]

Not related to this book, but to the author--- I have seen her post useful information when replying to persons having trouble understanding and being successful with owls. As an impartial observer, I found the author's replies generous and informative. I wish I had known her when working with a GHO a few years back.

When I read the critical comments below my first though was that the poster did not cite any specific information but simply made very broad judgements about the content. As with any product review you can get 999 reviews that say "this product is incredible" yet one person will say "this item was a total waste of money" offering no evidence and paying no attention to the fact that his/her opinion is conflicts with the vast majority. It is absolutely ok to differ with the majority opinion but it is incumbent upon that person to offer some evidence to support their opinion if they don't want to risk looking foolish.

[sharptail]

Wow, writing a techinal book on raptors in other than your native language is impressive. I only slightly speak a a second tounge and wouldn't even think of trying to write in French or Spanish.

Owls are not my thing and even though I question their value in sport, I must say, well done.

[vampdragon]

Wow, writing a techinal book on raptors in other than your native language is impressive. I only slightly speak a a second tounge and wouldn't even think of trying to write in French or Spanish.

Owls are not my thing and even though I question their value in sport, I must say, well done.

It is very interesting. In addition to her book, I have been in communication with Anna Sanchez as I have worked with my owl. English is her third or fourth language and she actually relies a lot on translator applications to help her out. I'm not going to give away all her secrets, not my place, but the Spanish and French are the easy publications for her. The English one is tough for her, as seen by the publication dates of her second book on Snowy Owls. There was a 3 or 4 month wait for the English version after she released the Spanish and French.

Nocturnal Mind was her first book, and there are a number of "holes" that she is aware of. I know a number of them have brought to her attention by others, and a few even by me as we have worked together to condition my GHO.

I agree and disagree with you on the use of owls in falconry, but that is a great thing about how varied the sport really is, we can all have our own opinions, all I ask is don't hate me for trying. I have found one thing in my journey so far though, and that is it does take a certain person and mindset to work with owls for falconry. Anna's book, when read with an open mind, really helps to understand the different mindset needed. They are a bird that will test your patience and you have to work with a "long term plan" instead of a "trap on Sunday, hunt on Friday" format.

I believe that there are only a few raptors that don't work well with falconry, and most of that is due to the type of prey they take, Ospreys for example, though that would be one hell of a way to fish if you could figure it out. I believe that for the rest, with a few exceptions, it just takes the right person, the right mindset, and the right style.

[rkumetz]

Owls are not my thing and even though I question their value in sport, I must say, well done.

Jeff,

When I was an apprentice I came across an older gentleman who was a retired (science, I believe) teacher living in Chicago. He hunted rats, bunnies and squirrels with his GHO in cemeteries within city limits. He didn't take huge quantities of "game" but he was having fun and he was pursuing wild quarry with a bird of prey which (as I recall) is the definition of the sport.

I think that one concept that we have all managed to agree upon (and we don't agree upon many things) is that you need to find a bird that fits your particular location and prey base as well as your life situation.
Same thing with car hawking a kestrel on schoolyard starlings, etc. If you don't have big open spaces and sage grouse but you want to enjoy falconry you have 3 choices: change your life (not always an option), figure out a workable compromise or sit around and just feel sorry for yourself that you can't enjoy the falconry that others enjoy.



I guess what I am trying to say is that the value of any species is whatever the falconer can make of it or "whatever floats your boat".

[Breeze]

Jeff,

When I was an apprentice I came across an older gentleman who was a retired (science, I believe) teacher living in Chicago. He hunted rats, bunnies and squirrels with his GHO in cemeteries within city limits. He didn't take huge quantities of "game" but he was having fun and he was pursuing wild quarry with a bird of prey which (as I recall) is the definition of the sport.

I think that one concept that we have all managed to agree upon (and we don't agree upon many things) is that you need to find a bird that fits your particular location and prey base as well as your life situation.
Same thing with car hawking a kestrel on schoolyard starlings, etc. If you don't have big open spaces and sage grouse but you want to enjoy falconry you have 3 choices: change your life (not always an option), figure out a workable compromise or sit around and just feel sorry for yourself that you can't enjoy the falconry that others enjoy.



I guess what I am trying to say is that the value of any species is whatever the falconer can make of it or "whatever floats your boat".

[sharptail]

Jeff,

When I was an apprentice I came across an older gentleman who was a retired (science, I believe) teacher living in Chicago. He hunted rats, bunnies and squirrels with his GHO in cemeteries within city limits. He didn't take huge quantities of "game" but he was having fun and he was pursuing wild quarry with a bird of prey which (as I recall) is the definition of the sport.

Ok, so how would flying a RT, Harris' or Goshawk not been more fun, easier, less training with more hunting time. GHO's are attacked and harrassed relentlessly, when hunting in daylight, by many birds, such as Crow, Magpie, Kestral, RT, goshawk, Coopers, most large falcons and Eagles.

Some think that hunting at night is all the rage, while I like to be able to see hard crankin, long range, fast moving flight not condusive to the dark. Even so, when flying at night, wouldn't a RT or Harris' be better suited? For the time and effort needed, are not any of the commonly used hawks a much better choice for real sport, not just something to fool with, but a true hunting companion?

That said, I do see a value in rehabing owls to return them to the wild. Training and hunting with them is the best way to do so.

Hey Vampdragon, why would I hate you...I don't even know you. Buy the way I was in Tulsa for a coulpe of weeks in November.

[Breeze]

Awesome, Daniel! Would love to hear more about your flying of Kismet. Agree with what you are saying regarding perspective, too. What one falconer LOVES to do, others don't enjoy or won't do at all. I LOVE squirrel hawking - many folks don't want their birds to pursue them. Doesn't make me, or them, "wrong" - just means we have a different way of viewing what we want from falconry. Nocturnals. A true challenge, but after reading the book I DO see where it is doable! Especially if one is wise enough to link up with the author and let her answer questions along the way. Good thinking!

[vampdragon]

Awesome, Daniel! Would love to hear more about your flying of Kismet. Agree with what you are saying regarding perspective, too. What one falconer LOVES to do, others don't enjoy or won't do at all. I LOVE squirrel hawking - many folks don't want their birds to pursue them. Doesn't make me, or them, "wrong" - just means we have a different way of viewing what we want from falconry. Nocturnals. A true challenge, but after reading the book I DO see where it is doable! Especially if one is wise enough to link up with the author and let her answer questions along the way. Good thinking!

How you hunt, and your reason for hunting should be your primary drive. You love squirrel hawking. I haven't really tried it, but wouldn't mind giving it a shot. My sponsor is very careful with it as he has had a few hawks loose toes, so he prefers to wait for the right bird. I hunt with a falconer in northern OK that likes to push the boundaries of his birds ability. He hates it when his harris hawks catch rats. Me, I'm in it for the hunt itself and the enjoyment of working with the bird. I'm just as happy when my Red Tail takes a cotton rat, a wood rat, a cotton tail, a snake or a legless lizard. Heck, I was thrilled with a hunt a couple weeks ago, when she was around an ounce high for the temps and still chased some bunnies but came home. I learned something during that hunt and she still had some good slips.

As long as you are legal and you are working and treating your bird ethically, fly falconry in your style. Also, don't force a bird to hunt "your way." I feel if the bird isn't hunting the way you want to hunt, either release them if you can, or if you can't find someone who hunts the way the bird wants to hunt. In my 2.5 years, (yes I'm a "newbie" in this sport) I have seen each bird have a different personality. find the bird that matches your personality. When that happens, you will have the time of your life. If you are fighting the bird the whole time, you are going to want to give up the sport. That is my philosophy.

[Breeze]

I have seen each bird have a different personality. find the bird that matches your personality. When that happens, you will have the time of your life.

Couldn't agree more! I'm VERY fortunate in that Breeze was the first bird I trapped (with my sponsor of course) and we fit together personality wise and have great team work together in the field. LOVE flying this bird. No struggles, no problems, just a WHOLE LOT OF FUN! The right bird makes a huge difference. Found mine.

[Falconer54]

Three years ago Anna wrote on a thread here that she was coming to the USA and would like to meet some Falconers, and watch their birds fly. I responded, and also a friend lived nearby came out. Anna had her sister drive her to a meeting place where she was able to watch some of our falcons be flown. We had nice discussions about owls and training them, which seemed foreign to me. She had great knowledge of owl behavior, and has trained many owls to hunt successfully, besides breeding different species of owls in captivity. After meeting we wrote back and forth for quite a while and I was quite impressed with her knowledge and experience with owls. They are a whole different world. Probably one of the most knowledgeable and experienced owl handler in the world. She has pretty much dedicated her life to living and learning about owls. I haven't read her book, but if I was to deal with owls, and needed some advice or help, Anna would be the first person I would call! Besides the fact that she is a lovely human being who is quite kind and patient.

[sharptail]

Wow, I would be interested in seeing some pic of kills and discriptions of the flight style. Call me a skeptic but do her owls hunt and kill regularly? I still have my doubts that they hold there own when compared to the hawks of falconry.

[BestBeagler]

Wow, I would be interested in seeing some pic of kills and discriptions of the flight style. Call me a skeptic but do her owls hunt and kill regularly? I still have my doubts that they hold there own when compared to the hawks of falconry.

I wonder how many falconers kill prairie chickens on a regular basis? Hold their own compared to... Guys killing hundreds of starling's with kestrels car hawking may look down on long wingers killing only a few grouse.

[jal4470]

I wonder how many falconers kill prairie chickens on a regular basis? Hold their own compared to... Guys killing hundreds of starling's with kestrels car hawking may look down on long wingers killing only a few grouse.

But don't you know its ok to fail, if you do it with style Don't be too successful though, that's vulgar.

[rkumetz]

I wonder how many falconers kill prairie chickens on a regular basis? Hold their own compared to... Guys killing hundreds of starling's with kestrels car hawking may look down on long wingers killing only a few grouse.

Not only that, how many starlings or sparrows have their gyr's and big hybrids brought to bag? Probably none so are they less capable than a kestrel?

It is all a matter of perspective.

[vampdragon]

Wow, I would be interested in seeing some pic of kills and discriptions of the flight style. Call me a skeptic but do her owls hunt and kill regularly? I still have my doubts that they hold there own when compared to the hawks of falconry.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "Hold their own when compared to hawks and falcons." On a ounce for ounce comparison, the natural prey for owls tend to be larger and more powerful for owls compared to hawks. While Red-Tails tend to focus on small mammals such as cotton rats, wood rats, small rabbits, snakes, small birds like dove and quail, a Great Horned Owl of the same weight hunt wood rats, cotton tail rabbits, skunks, barn cats, mallard ducks, etc. They believe this is due to the shorter, but thicker tarsus bone that owls have, which allow them to deliver more "punch." (this information is not in Anna's book, but found through additional research). They do have a different hunting style, much more of a wait for the perfect moment and then assassinate compared to a high speed chase, but they will chase as well, though they do fly much slower.

[sharptail]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "Hold their own when compared to hawks and falcons." On a ounce for ounce comparison, the natural prey for owls tend to be larger and more powerful for owls compared to hawks. While Red-Tails tend to focus on small mammals such as cotton rats, wood rats, small rabbits, snakes, small birds like dove and quail, a Great Horned Owl of the same weight hunt wood rats, cotton tail rabbits, skunks, barn cats, mallard ducks, etc. They believe this is due to the shorter, but thicker tarsus bone that owls have, which allow them to deliver more "punch." (this information is not in Anna's book, but found through additional research). They do have a different hunting style, much more of a wait for the perfect moment and then assassinate compared to a high speed chase, but they will chase as well, though they do fly much slower.

Hi Daniel,
I am familiar with what most raptors hunt naturally, as most falconers that have been practicing for 45 years are, but we are talking falconry here. Most Redtails left to there own divises will hunt mainly voles, mice, snakes and such, nothing very impressive. In the right hands, in sport they will' bulldog down' white tailed Jacks that weigh 3x there weight, in hard, fast, long flights, some going for over a 1/2 mile, and taking multiple head of quarry in a single outing. Same with the Harris' and Gos. The evidence is all over, including here on NAFEX.

There are only a handful of exceptional cases that I am aware of where Great Horned, Eagle Owls or Snowys have been documented doing anything like this, with any truely formidible falconry quarry. If the Owls are truely contenders for anything more than a Harry Potter fantasty, with only the exceptional, occasional specimen taking wild quarry, in a generally unimpressive style, like dropping off of a pole or tree, on to an unsuspecting vole or rat, ect., I would truely like to be educated. So if there are indeed falconers out there that have great game catching Owls, or if you know of someone, perhaps you could get stories and pics...full accounts, so I can be brought out of the dark. I have known several very capable falconers over the years that have tried GHOs but none that have taken more than a very occasional lack luster flight at easy quarry. Please... If you got em post em.

[vampdragon]

Hi Daniel,
I am familiar with what most raptors hunt naturally, as most falconers that have been practicing for 45 years are, but we are talking falconry here. Most Redtails left to there own divises will hunt mainly voles, mice, snakes and such, nothing very impressive. In the right hands, in sport they will' bulldog down' white tailed Jacks that weigh 3x there weight, in hard, fast, long flights, some going for over a 1/2 mile, and taking multiple head of quarry in a single outing. Same with the Harris' and Gos. The evidence is all over, including here on NAFEX.

There are only a handful of exceptional cases that I am aware of where Great Horned, Eagle Owls or Snowys have been documented doing anything like this, with any truely formidible falconry quarry. If the Owls are truely contenders for anything more than a Harry Potter fantasty, with only the exceptional, occasional specimen taking wild quarry, in a generally unimpressive style, like dropping off of a pole or tree, on to an unsuspecting vole or rat, ect., I would truely like to be educated. So if there are indeed falconers out there that have great game catching Owls, or if you know of someone, perhaps you could get stories and pics...full accounts, so I can be brought out of the dark. I have known several very capable falconers over the years that have tried GHOs but none that have taken more than a very occasional lack luster flight at easy quarry. Please... If you got em post em.

Hi Jeff,

What your explaining is going along with what I was saying earlier, finding the hunting style you like. You are correct, I don't see, or know of anyone who has had an owl sky out, and take prey that is 300 yards, a mile, or 2 miles away. That is not their hunting style. If that is the type of hunt that excites you, and I have come across a number of falconers with your experience that this is true, then owls will never been something you will be happy with.

Personally, I'm in falconry for the hunt in general and for the chance to be a part of the hunt with a bird of prey. I'm just as happy if I stir up a rat in a nest at the base of a tree and my Red Tail, or I hope soon my GHO, falls out of the tree on the rat, or chases a cotton tail for 50 yards, 100 yards or 200 yards.

As to your question do I know anyone who hunts with owls on a regular basis, I only know of one that I know for sure, the author of the book which started this whole conversation. She has explained a number of hunts to me, and has a few pictures of one of her snowy owls missing a bunny but "this much" on her FB account. My sponsor also hunted with a GHO for a few years, taking rats, and I know of a few others. As you mentioned though, Owls have generally been a disappointment for most falconers who have tried them. However, I believe that this is because they tried to make them hunt in a style that does not fit them, (trying to dogfight against a MiG 29 with a B-52)

[JRedig]

They do have a different hunting style, much more of a wait for the perfect moment and then assassinate compared to a high speed chase, but they will chase as well, though they do fly much slower.

Tell that to the female GHO that flew down and killed my very fit tiercel finnish gos in open flight...made him look VERY VERY slow.

[vampdragon]

Tell that to the female GHO that flew down and killed my very fit tiercel finnish gos in open flight...made him look VERY VERY slow.

I'm sorry to hear about your Tiercel Finnish Gos. It doesn't surprise me that they can't pour on the speed when they want too, especially when a female weighing in at 1,500 to 1,800 grams lets gravity work for them, but generally, they use a very light wing loading to fly slow, at least when normal flight speeds are compared.

[OATS]

Tell that to the female GHO that flew down and killed my very fit tiercel finnish gos in open flight...made him look VERY VERY slow.

Jeff, I've never heard of anything like that before out of a GHO. I'd be interested to know more about it as there are plenty of owls around here.

[Betelgeuse]

Three years ago Anna wrote on a thread here that she was coming to the USA and would like to meet some Falconers, and watch their birds fly. I responded, and also a friend lived nearby came out. Anna had her sister drive her to a meeting place where she was able to watch some of our falcons be flown. We had nice discussions about owls and training them, which seemed foreign to me. She had great knowledge of owl behavior, and has trained many owls to hunt successfully, besides breeding different species of owls in captivity. After meeting we wrote back and forth for quite a while and I was quite impressed with her knowledge and experience with owls. They are a whole different world. Probably one of the most knowledgeable and experienced owl handler in the world. She has pretty much dedicated her life to living and learning about owls. I haven't read her book, but if I was to deal with owls, and needed some advice or help, Anna would be the first person I would call! Besides the fact that she is a lovely human being who is quite kind and patient.

If a person is thinking of picking up a book about owl disposition, this post is a qualified review of the author's competency.