Duel impint Aplomados

[jfseaman]

The new kids.

The standard seems to dual/creche/cohort rear them, then train them.

They can be flown together or separately.

Later in life they should breed naturally but you have to incubate and raise the offspring.

[cnoel08]

aww cute lil things!

[wesleyc6]

ah, the grey down is really neat looking.

[Zarafia]

I have read that aplomados are social like harris hawks.
Is this correct? And if so, do they actually hunt in co-operation like HHs?
I have only even seen one in person, and he was a gorgeous youngster.
Please post as many pics as you can, I am quite fond of them.

[jfseaman]

ah, the grey down is really neat looking.

And floating all over the house.

[jfseaman]

I have read that aplomados are social like harris hawks.
Is this correct? And if so, do they actually hunt in co-operation like HHs?
I have only even seen one in person, and he was a gorgeous youngster.
Please post as many pics as you can, I am quite fond of them.

They are supposed to group hunt, in the wild and when creche reared. Time will tell.

[jfseaman]

The male is on the right, named Gene (Kelly), the female is Judy (Garland).

[Zarafia]

They are supposed to group hunt, in the wild and when creche reared. Time will tell.

Awesome. I shall watch this thread and those that may follow with great interest.

[Lee Slikkers]

I've followed all the articles in the falconry mags (seems flooded with this topic lately) with interest knowing they are likely out of my price range for a long, long time but their hunting style and tenacity really intrigues me.

Keep us posted and informed on how this project goes for you...I am jealous and envious, congrats.

[Mitchellbrad]

The new kids.

The standard seems to dual/creche/cohort rear them, then train them.

They can be flown together or separately.

Later in life they should breed naturally but you have to incubate and raise the offspring.

Cute as Hell. I wonder why the standard is what you wrote above. I know that was done with peregrines with the interest of numbers in mind. Most were released but many that found their way into breeding projects had to be manipulated such as AI'd. Some of those birds were a real mess. I know I had some of them!

[tony123abc]

Cute little guys. Gene & Judy? Show tunes? Who wuda thought. Can't wait to read more. tony

[Mitchellbrad]

I found this article a week or so ago. A breeder called me asking if I knew anything about these birds. Of course I know nothing about them so trying to relay information concerning peregrines and attempting to use it on aplomado falcons would be annectodal at best.

In the beginning, with most peregrines, almost everyone didn't let their birds hatch the young. Copulating pairs weren't the norm like they are today. Thousands of peregrines were produced and released. All you needed were egg laying falcons, a semen donor or two and chickens if you didn't trust your falcons to incubate. That was basically the norm and it worked great. Today most breeders who even bother to breed peregrines have copulating pairs, many haven't turned on an incubator for years.

http://www.peregrinefund.org/pdfs/Re...0al%202004.pdf

[jfseaman]

I found this article a week or so ago. A breeder called me asking if I knew anything about these birds. Of course I know nothing about them so trying to relay information concerning peregrines and attempting to use it on aplomado falcons would be annectodal at best.

In the beginning, with most peregrines, almost everyone didn't let their birds hatch the young. Copulating pairs weren't the norm like they are today. Thousands of peregrines were produced and released. All you needed were egg laying falcons, a semen donor or two and chickens if you didn't trust your falcons to incubate. That was basically the norm and it worked great. Today most breeders who even bother to breed peregrines have copulating pairs, many haven't turned on an incubator for years.

http://www.peregrinefund.org/pdfs/Re...0al%202004.pdf

Yup, that's the program. Modified for falconry with more intimate contact.

Won't know if they are over imprinted for a couple years. Even if they are and reproduction requires AI it'll all work out.

[Ken S.]

They are supposed to group hunt, in the wild and when creche reared. Time will tell.

Yes, and I have seen it done. What a priveledge... I'll never forget it. They are AWESOME! What I saw happen a handful of times... was the female would stay right behind the sparrow - gaining on it a little when it flew straight away and sticking with it on every twist and turn... until it made a mistake and many times the male was flying close enough to intercept. He would go cache it while the female kept hunting with the group and he would re-join when he was done. Same thing for when the female made a catch. It was so much fun to watch... and very effective.

I took some low-quality video of it but haven't spent the time to rip it from dvd to my computer for sharing. I also think there was an article in American Falconry about this already.

I too want to fly an Aplomado some day... but I plan to spend at least a few seasons flying a passage merlin first. I haven't had the chance to fly a merlin yet but I can imagine that being a ton of fun as well with a much lower price tag and the added benefit of being able to release at the end of the season.

[FredFogg]

Anybody know of anyone that has flown an aplo for more than 3 years? And I mean the same bird! Everything I have read so far is about aplo's folks flew that year, but you never hear about the same bird a few years down the road. Are they all going back into breeding projects? Are they lost or killed? It would be interesting to hear or read about how they are long term or at least, it would be to me. Especially, if I were spending that kind of money on a bird!

[borderhawk]

I had heard that Harry McElroy's was recently killed by a wild RT. but I would imagine many go back to breeding after a year or two. I'd heard a few stories of friends of breeders getting to fly one for cheap or free with the agreement that it would go back for breeding afterwards.

[borderhawk]

How old are they in the pic? It looks like one is a day or two ahead of the other... 18...20 days?

[jkruer01]

I love Aplomados. They are very beautiful. Unfortunately they are also out of my price range.

JEremy

[everetkhorton]

I love Aplomados. They are very beautiful. Unfortunately they are also out of my price range.

JEremy

Jeremy:
I have never looked at buying a CB bird/falcon. When you say,"out of your price range". How much are we taking about?

[borderhawk]

Jeremy:
I have never looked at buying a CB bird/falcon. When you say,"out of your price range". How much are we taking about?

Well, I don't know about Jeremy but really anything over a couple hundred is out of my range..... last I heard aplomado's are averaging about $4,000.

[jkruer01]

Jeremy:
I have never looked at buying a CB bird/falcon. When you say,"out of your price range". How much are we taking about?

This is the only website I have seen that lists prices for Aplamados and I have been told this is about average for Aplamados.
http://www.americanbirdabatementserv...dosforsale.htm

Jeremy

[wesleyc6]

Jeremy:
I have never looked at buying a CB bird/falcon. When you say,"out of your price range". How much are we taking about?

$2500 males and $3500 females is the cheapest I have seen

[jfseaman]

Anybody know of anyone that has flown an aplo for more than 3 years? And I mean the same bird! Everything I have read so far is about aplo's folks flew that year, but you never hear about the same bird a few years down the road. Are they all going back into breeding projects? Are they lost or killed? It would be interesting to hear or read about how they are long term or at least, it would be to me. Especially, if I were spending that kind of money on a bird!

I think Harry flew one for at least 3 seasons.

Don't know about a lost to an RT, quite possible and one of my biggest worries.

I believe the Aplomados go back to breeding projects ASAP. There aren't many and once proven hunters they go back as they could breed in year 1 for males and year 2 for females. I'm pretty sure that for the time being they will go back sooner rather than risking a good bird to loss. 'Deals' that friends of breeders get are only that they get to hunt with them, not keep them, of course, they go back to breeding projects.

There is a lot of falconry out there for 'free'. I support wild take and will fight tooth and nail to keep it but...

For me it's much more complicated, I practice falconry, falconry based bird control and I'm trying to be a breeder. I also have my preferences for what birds I want to fly, most of which do not occur in California. Plus I want to fly birds I make, it's were my falconry and related activities are taking me and I am enjoying it.

If all goes well, these birds will be used for all three. All though with our system of a bird only being able to be in one permit at a time, it will be cumbersome, it's possible they will never make it to my falconry license and I will have to be content with what I can do with them during bird control activities.

Back to that 'free' wild take. Like I said, I will defend wild take to extremes. When I went to trap a RT, I think just for gas I spent well over $500 to find Rage. $60 for BC bait. Making the BC etc...

By comparison, I think it costs me $10 to drive over to 'Central Coast Falcons' to pick up a captive bred Barbary tiercel.

There is one wild take raptor I still want to fly, the Prairie as well as a captive bred Prairie. This I want to compare to the Lanner. For a wild take Lanner, I'll have to hook up with someone in Africa for a trip over there. But that's for another thread as we are getting into my falconry plans fo the rest of my life.

[jfseaman]

How old are they in the pic? It looks like one is a day or two ahead of the other... 18...20 days?

I think 23 and 28 days is closer I'm not sure and don't feel like looking it up as I am more interested in behavioral progress than the progress being on a calendar.

[jfseaman]

They've come along way.

This is about a week and a half ago.

The male is on the right. He will come to the lure quite quickly. She being younger still thinks it's all play and is in no hurry for anything.

He is craning his neck because there is a small flock of starlings behind me.

[kimmerar]

Thanks for the update Fred. They look great. Good to see he's already looking at those starlings!!!

[Bryant Tarr]

fantastic looking birds!

[tumble]

Damn, that's cool.

[samatney]

Bump.

Anything new with the aplos?

[jfseaman]

Bump.

Anything new with the aplos?

I was offline (as jfseaman) for a while.

The Aplomados are doing great. They have been working on a vineyard with me. I also had for 2 weeks someone else's aplos that were started but not finished.

My Aplomados have both caught wild free game. I did some baggies prior to that. At the present time I am ballooning them for fitness. I do them opposite days. The fitness and confidence is improving just as I was told it would.

The other aplos were problem children, I had to send them back because it was taking too much time.

From this experience with mine and someone else's I have developed some opinions.

Which I will right about soon.

[jfseaman]

There is a dark side to aplomados.

Between "Desert Hawking IV" and personal experience here are a few of the darker highlights and weirdnesses.

They hate riding the glove. This can be a challenge in a bird control environment but would be fine hunting.

They hate being touched on the back. Well are generally touchy. I have tracpacks on mine and changing batteries can be quite traumatic.

They hate being hooded. I did a lot of work hooding mine so that once it's on and after about 1/2 hour they settle down but you won't be hooding them to and from the field or in the field. You are looking at at least 1/2 hour to recover from hooding. I hate birds that can't be hooded.

They are equipment eaters. A hungry board aplomado can go through kangaroo pretty quickly.

They carry, I guess like merlins, they want to feel safe. When the weight is raised, they will cache mitigating some of the carrying issue. Biggest tip here is don't attempt to make in using traditional methods if the prey can be carried. I have tried a number of things, a quail wing on a string works best as a call off. Be sure not to pressure the bird on a kill. If it starts to mantle back off and do not under any circumstance 'chase' the bird if it carries. If it flys off and you know it's safe just sit back from 50' and wait. They will come when done eating.

They are noisey. Being a kestrel type bird, it seems that they all make quite a racket. It is highly based on trying to gain attention. My imprint barbary makes more noise when he want me to pick him up. All the aplos and my barbary shut up instantly if I turn my back or when I've picked some bird up.

Some hate new things people, dogs, deer, cattle. This can be a challenge in the field.

These harder to deal with issues for the aplomado are probably not an issue in a pure falconry environment but in bird control it can do your head in.

[jfseaman]

On the good side.

They don't seem to hold grudges.

A friend assures me that during off season periods, upon returning to work or hunting they are better than before.

They are the smarted bird I've worked with, smarter than a Harris's hawk. Get then to do a behavior 2 times and they will repeat it. They recognize hunting grounds and will repeat successes instantly.

As an example of inteligence, ballooning/kiting to build fitness goes sort of like, 30', 150' as high as you think the bird can go in the conditions. Easy. Ballooning does indeed help the birds confidence and they seem to be more determined at quarry.

[jfseaman]

Weirdnesses

One important weirdness to understand, raise their weight to improve performance, manners, reduce carrying and increase determination. Once they've caught stuff, raise the weight as high as you dare. According to Harry, there is a dispersal issue at the end of October and again in the early spring where you might want to bring the weight back down. Just a management issue. Mine are up over 1/2oz (15 grams) from their weight at entering. A friends female is now up 2oz from entering, that's a lot for a 250/330 gram bird. Basically, his is flying above highest baby weight and mine are just under highest baby weight.

As an excample of how raising weight improves manners, the birds I got from someone else to continue training had been brought down in weight. They were totally psycho on the glove when food was around. Screaming, hanging, footing, you name it. Raised the weight and this all went away. BTW: the rest of the time they were just noisey.

[Chris L.]

Fred,

thank you for the posts on the aplo's.. these little guys have my attention for sure.

You mentioned they go through equipment. Have you tried any decron jesses or equipment? If so how do they hold up

The noise they make, is it screaming or just chatter?

If you get a chance to take some more pictures please do

thank you again

[jfseaman]

Fred,

thank you for the posts on the aplo's.. these little guys have my attention for sure.

You mentioned they go through equipment. Have you tried any decron jesses or equipment? If so how do they hold up

The noise they make, is it screaming or just chatter?

If you get a chance to take some more pictures please do

thank you again

Kangaroo anklets were chewed to the point of untrustworthy, twice.

Saddle leather buttons for my bullet jesses (that I make) were removed, twice.

The covering for the bullet jesses, that have survived multiple redtails, harris hawks, tiercel peregrine and other birds, removed several times.

Braided leashes, no problem.

Put braided jesses on the two problem children but haven't gotten a look at them since.

I'll do picks soon.