turbo transmitter

[merlin]

hi
hope some one may help.i rely want to get a marshall GPS system,ive been on the f/b marshall gps page ..can anyone tell me what i can expect from the turbo transmitter with fully charged battery some people say two hours some say five even in economy mode dos anyone no i realise it will use more power in HD but would rely like to no what can be expected in the different modes perhaps marshall might help?? and i no it can be put in sleep mode ..but what are times with out sleep mode
thanks in advance for your help regards David

[Saluqi]

Watch this: https://vimeo.com/268100226

[jdrmd]

David,
As you will see from the link Paul posted, they have really added to the functionality on ver 4.0. Haven't used it in the field yet but the ability to change setting on the fly, pun intended, is a real game changer.

[Captain Gizmo]

David,
As you will see from the link Paul posted, they have really added to the functionality on ver 4.0. Haven't used it in the field yet but the ability to change setting on the fly, pun intended, is a real game changer.

Looking at the video as best I understand the ability to change the settings is only active while you can access the standard link. Once you are out of standard link range the Plink and the RTGPS no longer talk back and forth. With loss of the two way link the Xmtr goes into high amplitude, short message, long space between messages operation. You drop out of flight management mode and into recovery mode. At that point everything is on automatic until you get back into two way link range.

Regards,
Thomas of the Decodings

[merlin]

thank you for everyone's advise...id realy like to no it's running time with out putting to sleep..just in econamy mode if possible .dos it run days or hours? thanks again david

[merlin]

Looking at the video as best I understand the ability to change the settings is only active while you can access the standard link. Once you are out of standard link range the Plink and the RTGPS no longer talk back and forth. With loss of the two way link the Xmtr goes into high amplitude, short message, long space between messages operation. You drop out of flight management mode and into recovery mode. At that point everything is on automatic until you get back into two way link range.

Regards,
Thomas of the Decodings

i ve tried watching the video but i dont have enough internet speed to watch it so hoping some one can give me the information thanks david

[Hunner]

I think some confusion exists on exactly which transmitter we're talking about. This does make it difficult to answer.
Our leading choices are RT+, RT, GPS, TURBO and finally the mother lode GPS/TURBO. Some of the answers are swayed to Turbo only and some with a little bit of GPS/TURBO. All are signicantly different. Which one does your question refer to? Regardless, thank you Marshall for all you have done!!

[merlin]

I think some confusion exists on exactly which transmitter we're talking about. This does make it difficult to answer.
Our leading choices are RT+, RT, GPS, TURBO and finally the mother lode GPS/TURBO. Some of the answers are swayed to Turbo only and some with a little bit of GPS/TURBO. All are signicantly different. Which one does your question refer to? Regardless, thank you Marshall for all you have done!!

it's the GPS Turbo i would like the details on ,,,thank you david

[merlin]

I think some confusion exists on exactly which transmitter we're talking about. This does make it difficult to answer.
Our leading choices are RT+, RT, GPS, TURBO and finally the mother lode GPS/TURBO. Some of the answers are swayed to Turbo only and some with a little bit of GPS/TURBO. All are signicantly different. Which one does your question refer to? Regardless, thank you Marshall for all you have done!!

it's the GPS Turbo i would like the details on ,,,thank you david

[Hunner]

David
I called Marshallradio to find specific info on the GPS/TURBO and they promptly guided me to the Marshal GPS User Group, of which you should be a member if you own the equipment. Open the FB page, hit discussion, scroll to Video 11 and a complete tutorial is available. It certainly helped me. As I own 2, but haven't started my season yet.

All the best

[merlin]

David
I called Marshallradio to find specific info on the GPS/TURBO and they promptly guided me to the Marshal GPS User Group, of which you should be a member if you own the equipment. Open the FB page, hit discussion, scroll to Video 11 and a complete tutorial is available. It certainly helped me. As I own 2, but haven't started my season yet.

All the best

thanks very nuch for you advise iam a member fb v4 but every one has different views some people as i said only run between 2 and four hour others a day no one will commit them selves ,and i do realise ther is different modes but thanks for your help david

[jdrmd]

thanks very nuch for you advise iam a member fb v4 but every one has different views some people as i said only run between 2 and four hour others a day no one will commit them selves ,and i do realise ther is different modes but thanks for your help david

David,
Battery life depends on several factors. You aren't going to be able to find an absolute run time, a time range is the best you are going to get. Testing in my backyard with a fairly opening to the sky I was able to get 2.5 to 3 hours in HD mode and 5 to 6 hours in ECO mode.

[merlin]

David,
Battery life depends on several factors. You aren't going to be able to find an absolute run time, a time range is the best you are going to get. Testing in my backyard with a fairly opening to the sky I was able to get 2.5 to 3 hours in HD mode and 5 to 6 hours in ECO mode.

thank you for reply i think 5 or 6 hours in eco mode is what most get ..but some say 3 days in eco mode and with out putting to sleep mode...that's why ive been askin regards david

[Beaner]

I think the confusion has come from in the beta testing days we had HD, SD and Eco now we have HD, Eco & Ext but I have done some Ext testing with the reserve set at 50% and get following, 20 secs = 5 hrs 30 secs = 7 hrs 1 min = 12 hrs 10 mins = 24 hrs 30 mins = +48 hrs

[merlin]

I think the confusion has come from in the beta testing days we had HD, SD and Eco now we have HD, Eco & Ext but I have done some Ext testing with the reserve set at 50% and get following, 20 secs = 5 hrs 30 secs = 7 hrs 1 min = 12 hrs 10 mins = 24 hrs 30 mins = +48 hrs

thanks for your input so i guess with 30minute update we cant expect more than two days continues ...perhaps a little longer if put to sleep mode at nite until recovered..a week running time would be great but guess that wont happen unless they develop new battery

[Steve Jones]

thanks for your input so i guess with 30minute update we cant expect more than two days continues ...perhaps a little longer if put to sleep mode at nite until recovered..a week running time would be great but guess that wont happen unless they develop new battery

That's why you fly them with a second transmitter, a traditional one. If it's a hybrid you are required to by law anyway.

[jdrmd]

If it's a hybrid you are required to by law anyway.

Even in Scotland?

[Captain Gizmo]

The battery has always been the hurdle in the GPS systems. Any improvement in battery chemistry is still below the horizon.
Where we might hope for some help is the current consumption of the GPS link. The cell phone industry (the 600 pound gorilla in the consumer electronics jungle) is constantly beating on the GPS module makers (nobody makes their own GPS modules), to get the current drain down. We can hope for incremental improvements in the "battery life X update rate" product. For the short term the only way to increase battery life is to decrease the update rate. Marshall has come up with an improvement to their product by adding a switchable higher power mode to the Direct Radio Link (Direct Connect in their terminology). While not the big contributor to the power budget there is a worthwhile savings to be had in keeping the amplitude of the link signal smaller when in VG (Video Game) mode. Bumping the link signal up to get more range in the Medium Range Recovery mode is a consistent addition to Marshall's list of choices in how you use GPS.

Regards,
Thomas of the Details

[Steve Jones]

Even in Scotland?

Oops, my bad. It's still a smart policy no matter where you live, and no matter what you fly.

[Captain Gizmo]

It's still a smart policy no matter where you live, and no matter what you fly.

Even in Scotland?

Thomas of the Doubtful

[dboyrollz76]

I get a max battery life of 26 hours sleeping, 14 hours working in extended mode, 15 hours in economy mode, 9 hours in HD mode. Had to send the transmitter back to get it updated and got the turbo for the extra 50. So the battery life dropped about a hour across the board. Range without the Omni directional is about 3 miles in semi open areas if I’m lucky. Had to send my pocket link back in it stopped charging. Pay for over night got it back 5 days later.
The directional arrow sometimes goes all stupid and don’t point to the bird. And if the transmitter battery is half, it takes foreverrrr to boot up and get satellite link. To day the altimeter in the transmitter was not working. Or the pocket link refused to read what it was saying.
But even with all the flaws, it has saved me time retrieving a bird, it’s fairly accurate but definitely not something you want to rely on 100% the app freezes up sometimes and other glitches keep you guessing. At least that’s what I get out of mine.

[merlin]

I get a max battery life of 26 hours sleeping, 14 hours working in extended mode, 15 hours in economy mode, 9 hours in HD mode. Had to send the transmitter back to get it updated and got the turbo for the extra 50. So the battery life dropped about a hour across the board. Range without the Omni directional is about 3 miles in semi open areas if I’m lucky. Had to send my pocket link back in it stopped charging. Pay for over night got it back 5 days later.
The directional arrow sometimes goes all stupid and don’t point to the bird. And if the transmitter battery is half, it takes foreverrrr to boot up and get satellite link. To day the altimeter in the transmitter was not working. Or the pocket link refused to read what it was saying.
But even with all the flaws, it has saved me time retrieving a bird, it’s fairly accurate but definitely not something you want to rely on 100% the app freezes up sometimes and other glitches keep you guessing. At least that’s what I get out of mine.

thnks everyone it seems as it still needs a lot of developing yet

[jdrmd]

Oops, my bad. It's still a smart policy no matter where you live, and no matter what you fly.

Hope you didn't take that as a smart ass comment, it was a legit question.

[Captain Gizmo]

Hope you didn't take that as a smart ass comment, it was a legit question.

John,

The original suggestion, the comment, and the reply to the comment were straight enough.
I did take it as an opportunity for a bit of wry humor.

Regards,
Thomas of the Derailed

[jdrmd]

John,

The original suggestion, the comment, and the reply to the comment were straight enough.
I did take it as an opportunity for a bit of wry humor.

Regards,
Thomas of the Derailed

Thomas of Tomfoolery, your comment was well taken. Keep them coming. Just wanted to make sure Steve knew my intentions.

[Captain Gizmo]

Back in 2011 I wrote the following in response to a question from Ralph Rogers and Bob Wilde as we sat in the Amarillo airport waiting for the prop hopper to Kearney. Most of it still seems valid to me.

July 7, 2011
GPS Telemetry for Falconry

Conclusion: GPS falcon tracking will come. Not next year. 5 to 10 is my guess.

Basic rule: Data transmissions have 1/3 the range of a “beep” for a given output power.

• Falconer’s obsession with “range” means future tags will have a GPS and a “beep”.

Executive summary: The crux of GPS falconry telemetry is the power consumption, and thus the battery weight. My estimate is a 4:1 combined improvement in current drain/ energy density is needed to make a 10 gram GPS tag possible. The weight of added electronics is minimal (1 gram). The cell phone industry is pushing reduced energy per fix. Various folks are claiming (hyping) improved (breakthrough) battery energy density. Think the transition from NiCad to Lithium Ion batteries in the last 20 years. The “next generation battery” is mighty fuzzy in the crystal ball. (still fuzzy, 2018)

The ideal tag has zero weight, zero size and gives 24/7 real time world wide position to sub-meter accuracy forever. How soon “GPS” will be available depends on the compromises you accept (ideal=never) (25 grams, 10 miles max range, 1 fix per hour, 6 days=now, maybe).

Think how you are going to use GPS. Is it a tool for faster recovery when she has taken a tour of the county (five minute updates) or a way to check that she is in position for the flush (ten second updates). Updates burn battery. Remember, if she has cleared the county and is touring the state it’s back to beep, beep, beep (you hope). The beeper has one failure mode; the signal fails to get to the receiver. GPS has two failure modes; the tag fails to acquire satellite data, and/or the radio link fails to get a solid signal to the receiver. Note: The altimeter feature can take some of the fun out of lying to your buddies about her pitch.

The questions to ask as the technology progresses toward some version of “acceptable” GPS tag are:

• What is the maximum acceptable weight?
• What is the minimum acceptable battery life?
• What is the minimum range I can live with? (assume a beeper for long range back up)
• How long am I willing to wait between fixes?
• How much am I willing to pay? (needs a beep receiver and a data receiver, or one that does both)
• Does it have to do moving map, or will a precise direction and distance do?

GPS wildlife tags of 10 grams using solar cell power are industry standard. They record GPS positions and download via satellite or cell phone daily or weekly. Not a viable falconry (or dog) solution.

Summary: Not soon and far from perfect. Think about the compromises you consider acceptable. Pass your personal “minimum to make it worth the cost and effort” along to the various transmitter makers. Expect no miracles.

Marshall has made an internally consistent set of choices to answer these questions. First they have chosen a Direct Radio Link (DRL) rather than a cell phone based link. This brings almost real time update rates within the bounds of acceptable battery drain. The real time Video Game (VG) mode has been well received by the falconry community. Add the variable duty cycle on GPS, a back up beeper, an "absolutely" on moving map, plus a weight/form factor that allows leg mount and you have a unified plan.

High update rates via cell phone eat the battery in a big hurry. The European GPS systems (most of which have faded into the mist) tended to be cell phone based, making them strong in long distance recovery but poor in the VG mode.

Regards,
Thomas the Predictor

[merlin]

Thanxs for everyone's advise an comments

[paulushilarius]

Thank you Thomas the Predictor. What do you see happening in the next seven years?
Paul

Back in 2011 I wrote the following in response to a question from Ralph Rogers and Bob Wilde as we sat in the Amarillo airport waiting for the prop hopper to Kearney. Most of it still seems valid to me.

July 7, 2011
GPS Telemetry for Falconry

Conclusion: GPS falcon tracking will come. Not next year. 5 to 10 is my guess.

Basic rule: Data transmissions have 1/3 the range of a “beep” for a given output power.

• Falconer’s obsession with “range” means future tags will have a GPS and a “beep”.

Executive summary: The crux of GPS falconry telemetry is the power consumption, and thus the battery weight. My estimate is a 4:1 combined improvement in current drain/ energy density is needed to make a 10 gram GPS tag possible. The weight of added electronics is minimal (1 gram). The cell phone industry is pushing reduced energy per fix. Various folks are claiming (hyping) improved (breakthrough) battery energy density. Think the transition from NiCad to Lithium Ion batteries in the last 20 years. The “next generation battery” is mighty fuzzy in the crystal ball. (still fuzzy, 2018)

The ideal tag has zero weight, zero size and gives 24/7 real time world wide position to sub-meter accuracy forever. How soon “GPS” will be available depends on the compromises you accept (ideal=never) (25 grams, 10 miles max range, 1 fix per hour, 6 days=now, maybe).

Think how you are going to use GPS. Is it a tool for faster recovery when she has taken a tour of the county (five minute updates) or a way to check that she is in position for the flush (ten second updates). Updates burn battery. Remember, if she has cleared the county and is touring the state it’s back to beep, beep, beep (you hope). The beeper has one failure mode; the signal fails to get to the receiver. GPS has two failure modes; the tag fails to acquire satellite data, and/or the radio link fails to get a solid signal to the receiver. Note: The altimeter feature can take some of the fun out of lying to your buddies about her pitch.

The questions to ask as the technology progresses toward some version of “acceptable” GPS tag are:

• What is the maximum acceptable weight?
• What is the minimum acceptable battery life?
• What is the minimum range I can live with? (assume a beeper for long range back up)
• How long am I willing to wait between fixes?
• How much am I willing to pay? (needs a beep receiver and a data receiver, or one that does both)
• Does it have to do moving map, or will a precise direction and distance do?

GPS wildlife tags of 10 grams using solar cell power are industry standard. They record GPS positions and download via satellite or cell phone daily or weekly. Not a viable falconry (or dog) solution.

Summary: Not soon and far from perfect. Think about the compromises you consider acceptable. Pass your personal “minimum to make it worth the cost and effort” along to the various transmitter makers. Expect no miracles.

Marshall has made an internally consistent set of choices to answer these questions. First they have chosen a Direct Radio Link (DRL) rather than a cell phone based link. This brings almost real time update rates within the bounds of acceptable battery drain. The real time Video Game (VG) mode has been well received by the falconry community. Add the variable duty cycle on GPS, a back up beeper, an "absolutely" on moving map, plus a weight/form factor that allows leg mount and you have a unified plan.

High update rates via cell phone eat the battery in a big hurry. The European GPS systems (most of which have faded into the mist) tended to be cell phone based, making them strong in long distance recovery but poor in the VG mode.

Regards,
Thomas the Predictor

[qdgban]

I get a max battery life of 26 hours sleeping, 14 hours working in extended mode, 15 hours in economy mode, 9 hours in HD mode. Had to send the transmitter back to get it updated and got the turbo for the extra 50. So the battery life dropped about a hour across the board. Range without the Omni directional is about 3 miles in semi open areas if I’m lucky. Had to send my pocket link back in it stopped charging. Pay for over night got it back 5 days later.
The directional arrow sometimes goes all stupid and don’t point to the bird. And if the transmitter battery is half, it takes foreverrrr to boot up and get satellite link. To day the altimeter in the transmitter was not working. Or the pocket link refused to read what it was saying.
But even with all the flaws, it has saved me time retrieving a bird, it’s fairly accurate but definitely not something you want to rely on 100% the app freezes up sometimes and other glitches keep you guessing. At least that’s what I get out of mine.

i was part of the beta test group using V4 last season ,a couple of points, most errors in the system weve seen are down to user error and failing to understand what it offers if the correct starting up system is used and adhered to the link is very quickly made ,i make the link first then tap off with the mag switch ,the directional arrow is usually put out of sync by peoples phone carrier having a magnet in it or they have one on themselves,it can be overcome by a compass reset on the phone /ipad, I've never used the OMNI whip even though i have it ,i've had a bird 2.8 miles ( although shes was 3115ft )and more away and never missed a beep ,i couldn't see her of course but could see her track across the sky ready for the flush ,the ability to change the power mode is simple and effective ,to state a battery life is difficult on the basis that it will always alter dependent on when you put the battery on ,its condition when you did ,temperature etc,i have the rechargeable batteries which i feel are a must and i never worry about battery power its always fully charged when i goes on,the system works on the basis that if the bird is going off on a fly away then you would move toward the dot therefore maintaining contact ,you can also put the pocket link to height using a drone etc to reestablish a link and get last position sent ,there are many ways to use the system to your advantage ,personally I've never had to do a track down with it because i know exactly where my bird is at all times ,it certainly helped when she hung up on a fence and allowed me to go directly to her in a minute or so ,with normal systems i would've taken a lot longer ,i love the fact you can press on the location dot and get grid coordinates ( probably important for you guys ) or a road map with directions to the closest spot ,in terms of what it allows you to do in controlling a flight and flush cant be praised enough its quite simply amazing ,i always double tag with a back up of course as i would suggest everyone does having lost a single tag falcon a few years back a tough lesson learned,we love it and flying without it now seems strange,you can even share flights across the oceans or monitor each others flight on your own device sitting at home ,in the field i press start /record and put the phone away once shes reached 300ft

[dboyrollz76]

While he’s at it maybe he can squeeze out next weeks power ball number.

[Steve Jones]

Hope you didn't take that as a smart ass comment, it was a legit question.

I didn't take it as smart ass, I took it as a valid comment. Two transmitters on hybrids is a US law. I doubt Scotland has that law, but I really can't say for sure.

[Beaner]

thanks for your input so i guess with 30minute update we cant expect more than two days continues ...perhaps a little longer if put to sleep mode at nite until recovered..a week running time would be great but guess that wont happen unless they develop new battery

The times were for a fully charged transmitter to get to the 50% reserve so just need to add whatever the reserve was set to to get an idea of total runtime.

[qdgban]

it isnt law in the UK although some have made it part of the requirement when attending field meets,and some stipulate GPS only birds can be flown to avoid wasted days

[Annata20]

[QUOTE = Saluqi; 394407] Xem n?y: https://vimeo.com/268100226 [/ QUOTE]
I solved my problem, thank you!
fnf

[kelseyradley]

I regarded that as a valid comment rather than as a clever ass. A US law requires hybrid vehicles to have two transmitters. I don't think Scotland has that statute, but I can't be certain.
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