Sheriff
Return to the wild
It has been my understanding for many years that raptors that have imprinted can not be returned to the wild. This attitude has changed in the past few year with it being said that imprinted Accipiters can be returned to the wild. I would like your view on this subject, pro or con. But have your view based on something.
EVERET K. HORTON, MICHIGAN
Game is the name of the Game
Member
I think a 4 real imprint, as in a full imprint hat bird type stuff should be kept in captivity as it will eventually do something silly that may result in bad information being sent out. But the brancher who some people will also call an imprint is fine in my opinion to let go as they will often go ferel in short order. Also, it has been my experience, due to the way I train them, that my eyess birds tend to not trust anyone other than me as time goes on. I do it on purpose to keep any future problems to a minmum if problems do exist at all. I always release my wild acquired birds before they get too old. Just the way I do it.
NAFEX Supporting Member
I dont know aboutaccipiters but some imprinted falcons when released have been known to later breed naturally. So I dont see a problem as long as the imprint isnt one that attacks people..........
Bill
Member
I've never imprinted anything so the following information may mean absolutely nothing BUT I hear it depends on the species. I've heard that smaller birds such as merlins, sharpies, etc. revert to wild rather quickly so letting them go isn't that big of a deal. Of course, that may just be because they're not nearly as dangerous to people even when they are imprinted...
Hopefully Barry will chime in, I think he said he had an imprinted sharpie once that he lost for a few weeks and when he saw it again it was no different than a wild one...
-Isaac
NAFEX Supporting Member
Yes Ev a lot ( you know the old saw "there are always exceptions") of imprints will revert back to a natural state if given a chance to... The problem is some imprints, that have a strong human attachment to feeding time, will "attack" humans when they get hungry.
There is a lot going on when imprinting, some of it attaches, if you will, to the hardwiring of a bird and the individual bird may or may not react like others , even from the same nest , imprinted by others.
I have released several imprints when I was done flying them and as far as I 'know' ( key) none have killed anybody yet... That said I get the shivers when I think about the possibilities of an imprint RT that finds it's way into a situation where a lot of people are in close proximity...
If it hasn't reverted back to hunting for it's self... it could spell problems.
Ev what do you have in mind that brings this up?
Barry
"you believe you understand what I said, do realize what you heard is not what I meant"
Barry
NAFEX supporting Member
Ev, I think the imprinted coops I flew for 3 seasons could be turned loose into the wild. Like Barry said, I think if she ever was starving, she would probably attack anything near her to be fed, including humans. But she is such a great hunter, I don't think she would have any problem catching wild game.
On a slightly different note, I had a hag kestrel that I caught sparrows, starlings and doves with. I turned him loose in the spring and that summer after I turned it loose, about a mile away, I got out of my car at an Applebee's to go to lunch with my mom and a male kestrel flew down and smacked a sparrow in the shrubbery right beside the entrance to the restaurant. I know it was Eddie, it was summer, lots of grasshoppers out, I doubt if a nonfalconry kestrel would be smacking sparrows in a parking lot in the middle of summer. He flew up onto a lamp post and sat their plucking, he would lift his head up to look around and I would whistle and he would immediatley start eating. To be honest, I felt like a proud papa right then and there. My mom had to drag me into the restaurant to eat, I could have stood out there and watched him eat the entire sparrow. When we come out, he was gone.
Oh yeah, if you are thinking of cutting that coops loose, send him down this way. I could use something to fly on the starlings this spring, once this gos goes back to its owner. LOL
Fred
"Adopt the pace of nature: her secret is patience." ~Ralph Waldo Emerson
NAFEX Supporting Member
I think if you were to the point of wanting to turn one lose... I would a) make sure it knows how to hunt. b) not do it until the spring /summer when the living is easy 3) de-program it..... the account of the guys that release leopards in Africa that were reared from kittens... they tie the cat is a bag reeking of human ordor the beat the crap on of the leopard in the bag, so every time he smelled humans he would remember that and want to escape...
Of course you can't do that with a raptor because they are not scent oriented, but I think you could figure out the appropriate things to do. To not do that may, and probably would be giving the bird the death sentence, and possibly hurt someone.
.02
Barry
"you believe you understand what I said, do realize what you heard is not what I meant"
Barry
Member
A goof of a rehabber near my places regularly released imprinted great horned owls and snowy owls... Many of them were later killed or trapped and released in remote northern areas by game wardens, as they attacked people, usually in breeding season. Territorial animals, especially the GHO, they didn't let any human enter their territory... This guy does not believe in imprinting, but at least now he is not in charge of his refuge anymore!
Audrey Marquis, Rouyn-Noranda, Canada
Sheriff
Barry:Originally Posted by goshawks00
Just was BS'ing with others about COHA and imprinting and there was a mixture of opinions on the idea of returning imprints back to the wild.
Seeing that most of the birds you have handled over the years were imprints and you feel confident in what you have done and are doing, that being said, have you ever thought about writing a "Book on Imprinting" Accipiters?
EVERET K. HORTON, MICHIGAN
Game is the name of the Game
NAFEX Supporting Member
NO!!!!!!!!!
Ev,
I consider McD. a friend of mine from awhile back, but after seeing the crap he went through when he wrote his books, there is no way I'd be interested in being 'that guy'. I have never not given my opinion of what I believe, and why I believe. Those that don't like it or don't believe it are given a full refund of what they gave... I fly 'em, I like helping others fly 'em, but I will not do it for any amount of money... because it's not worth it.
barry
"you believe you understand what I said, do realize what you heard is not what I meant"
Barry
Sheriff
Barry:
Is that your final anwser?
EVERET K. HORTON, MICHIGAN
Game is the name of the Game
Banned
NO!!!!!!!!!
Ev,
I consider McD. a friend of mine from awhile back, but after seeing the crap he went through when he wrote his books, there is no way I'd be interested in being 'that guy'. I have never not given my opinion of what I believe, and why I believe. Those that don't like it or don't believe it are given a full refund of what they gave... I fly 'em, I like helping others fly 'em, but I will not do it for any amount of money... because it's not worth it.
barry
Barry, this is exactly why I have destroyed the manuscript of the passage Cooper's hawk book. It really isn't worth it. There sure isn't enough money in it.
Now, concerning the imprints and releasing them. Imprinting depends a great deal on the birds involved. Chickens and quail imprint almost immediately. Birds that are hatched helpless tend to imprint over a longer period. Some birds, such as cow birds, coocoo's and such come from the egg already imprinted. They hatch in the nest of another species and once they grow up they know exactly what to look for in a mate. I call it genetic memory. Some call it instinct. I suggest that all birds tend to have this genetic memory and given time will revert to it. Most imprints are only imprinted to one or maybe a few people. They know strangers when they see them and do not tend to extend the same trust to them as they would the one that they are imprinted on. Once they are feeding themselves they will quickly become untrusting of most everyone. Imprinting a hawk does not change it's nature even a speck. They remain what they came into the world as. The only difference is that they see you as a sibling maybe, or a parent. But when you think about it, they have no concepts of parent or sibling either. They form no real bonds and given the proper conditions will forsake you in the same manner as they would a natural parent or sibling. We commonly see this in an imprint that is allowed to become too fat. I have witnessed 2 passage hawks trying to mate with people and even building nests and laying eggs. This tells me that if this can occur then a mal imprinted bird will actually breed with it's own kind. When we take a young hawk and feed it until it is an adult it just becomes absolutely familiar with us. It does not really change the hawks natural mental structure. They remain hawks in every way except for that one point. And given the right conditions that same hawk will lose that familiarity and become as solitary as any wild hawk. Hormones and genetic memory will take care of everything.
Jack
NAFEX Supporting Member
Yes Jack as far as I can see you've said in more words what I'm saying...as I said the greatest fear is hungry imprints attacking people as they see them as the food giver when they are hungry.
Barry
"you believe you understand what I said, do realize what you heard is not what I meant"
Barry
Member
I know a rehaber who hand raised a RT and hacked it out. The RT left and she didn't see it for two years. Then one day she walked out her back door and the hawk came off the roof and bound to the top of her head, digging all it's talons into her scalp. I don't think you can accurately theorize what an individual bird is likely to do any more than you can say all humans will act this way or that way.
Dave
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