Imprinting Ideas?

[BestBeagler]

I just got the new Imprint Accipiter II book and thought it was great. Some good reading. I knew McD was big into using baggies, but after reading his book I didn’t know he relied on them so much and puts so much stock in their use. The link below is another recipe created by a guy in the UK. I think he has some good points.
I don’t really think keeping a carcass all the time with the eyas and using it as a platter is so necessary. I think I will just use the lure instead of the carcass. In fact I am thinking of not feeding the eyas off of any of the kills (baggies included) What I am thinking of is using baggies in the evening and morning and once the bird has settled down and starts to pluck and relaxes a bit, but before breaking in, transferring the eyas to the lure which is already pre garnished and the food pre weighed and then use Barry’s method of using two lures and switch the eyas from one lure to another until with equal amounts of food on each lure until the bird finishes its ration. I will tame hack the bird. I will also use Pet Smart’s timed feeder as well.
Transferring a bird before it has broken into the quarry isn’t a new thing. I have read about a few people who do that, but I don’t know if they started this out when their hawks were eyas’s or not. I think starting when they are eyas’s would be the way to go. What do you guys think? Isaac

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42623

[BestBeagler]

I don’t know, I did some more reading and according to McD not opening up the kills can cause problems. I guess there is a difference between opening up a kill and feeding off of it. I just can’t see though why any problems should occur if you don’t open up the baggies. Also, I don’t get the whole thing about the lure holding to much importance. Isaac

[outhawkn]

My opinion is this. When first learning falconry you count on your sponsor teaching you to end up with a made hawk. ( Doesnt always happen of course). So your first bird should really be trained as if it were your sponsors. You should end up with a good bird that hunts and has no or minimum vices. So, then if your going to use someone elses training method ( in this case,McD's) I think you should follow it to a T. Then after you've used it then alter it some to suit you. You should never mix training styles UNTIL you know what your doing. And this is best done by following the new method then altering it to suit you. JMO

[Jack]

Can you get your money back for the book? You were robbed.

Jack

[frootdog]

Can you get your money back for the book? You were robbed.

Jack

How many imprints have you done? How many times have you tried Mc Dermott's methods?

[Jack]

How many imprints have you done? How many times have you tried Mc Dermott's methods?

I have only done a single imprint. Turned out pretty nice too, and I did not use that thing you call a recipe. I have not used it, but have seen so many that it was used on. That is enough to tell me he should ask for his money back.

[FredFogg]

Can you get your money back for the book? You were robbed.

Jack

Jack, you have imprinted one bird in your life, you have no grounds to judge any one that has written any books on imprinting. Sometimes you just need to read and not comment!

[frootdog]

Jack, you have imprinted one bird in your life, you have no grounds to judge any one that has written any books on imprinting. Sometimes you just need to read and not comment!

My point exactly.

[harrishawker1]

Jack,

This book will help falconers who havent ever had a imprint before.
But after imprinting many many accipiters over a 36 year span I personaly feel this book will do more good than harm.
As for the worth, the book is worth every penny, keep it in good shape and some day he can sell it for many times more than he paid for it.

[Jack]

Jack,

This book will help falconers who havent ever had a imprint before.
But after imprinting many many accipiters over a 36 year span I personaly feel this book will do more good than harm.
As for the worth, the book is worth every penny, keep it in good shape and some day he can sell it for many times more than he paid for it.
__________________
Vinnie M.


I guess it would indeed, but I tend to base my opinions on my own experience and knowledge of hawks, and imprinting is not all that mysterious. I have owned a few hawks that were McD raised, and they were frought with strange behaviors. I have only imprinted one hawk, but I did a perfect hawk the very first time too. Wasn't an accident either. I haven't written a book on imprinting, but I could. The thing to remember is that anyone can write a book on any subject they want. McD and Daryle Perkins have proven that. And then you have people that will take it for gospel.
Something to reflect upon. What has taken creation or evolution millions of years to make will not be altered in just a few weeks of hand raising without creating some unwanted problems with it. If one truely knows the nature of the beast he works with he can do it without all the million do's and don't of the formula. Then again, maybe I was wrong about the book. Does it have lot's of nice pictures. That should be worth something.

Jack

[frootdog]

My opinion is this. When first learning falconry you count on your sponsor teaching you to end up with a made hawk. ( Doesnt always happen of course). So your first bird should really be trained as if it were your sponsors. You should end up with a good bird that hunts and has no or minimum vices. So, then if your going to use someone elses training method ( in this case,McD's) I think you should follow it to a T. Then after you've used it then alter it some to suit you. You should never mix training styles UNTIL you know what your doing. And this is best done by following the new method then altering it to suit you. JMO

[BestBeagler]

Krys:
Is there anything that you wish you would have done differently with your coopers? What are her vices if any? What do you think you could have done differently with McD recipe that might have improved her if any? Isaac

[frootdog]

Krys:
Is there anything that you wish you would have done differently with your coopers? What are her vices if any? What do you think you could have done differently with McD recipe that might have improved her if any? Isaac

The one thing I have said all along is that I should have tethered her sooner. I did not realise the importance of the statement "as soon as the hawk is mobile". I liked the puppy dog tameness too much, let her walk around the house, have free reign. BIG mistake. She bates a lot and I think it is directly attributed to that fact.

Vices? None that are not managable. She was a face grabber 1st year, but in retrospect she was way too low. She will chase me in the field now and go for my feet after a miss. I'm usually wearing sandals so it's kind of a pain, but again that is a weight thing and I always knew last year what Iwas going to have to deal with if I flew her a bit hot. She would catch an ass pile of game but then chase me around the field. Only last year she never went for the face.

Other than the tethering the only thing now I would do different is do a male coop next time. But the next imprint accip I do will be a sharpy (hopefully male).

She meets every state and federal criteria now so I'm putting serious though into putting her in a breeding project. In 2 seasons she took well over 1000 head of game including an even 700 last season. Done right they are everything McD says they can be.

And they are much easier on thier feathers in year 2, but I hear the hacking helps with that too. Just another reason to do the hack. I imped the entire train 3 times year 1 and a grand total of 3 feathers last year.

[BestBeagler]

My opinion is this. When first learning falconry you count on your sponsor teaching you to end up with a made hawk. ( Doesnt always happen of course). So your first bird should really be trained as if it were your sponsors. You should end up with a good bird that hunts and has no or minimum vices. So, then if your going to use someone elses training method ( in this case,McD's) I think you should follow it to a T. Then after you've used it then alter it some to suit you. You should never mix training styles UNTIL you know what your doing. And this is best done by following the new method then altering it to suit you. JMO

Bill:
I will tell you this. Relying on a sponsor to help train a RT is whole different ball game. When you put a lot of cash down for something (for me anyway) you want to be as guaranteed as you can be that you won't screw it up and that it's raised with its head screwed on right. Besides, it may be a bit presumptions and pompous of me but I bet any apprentice of mine that does what their told in their first year, will come out with a higher success ratio of having a near perfect RT with minimal vices then someone taking on their first accipiter and following a recipe out of a book. That's why I question things. Isaac

[outhawkn]

Bill:
I will tell you this. Relying on a sponsor to help train a RT is whole different ball game. When you put a lot of cash down for something (for me anyway) you want to be as guaranteed as you can be that you won't screw it up and that it's raised with its head screwed on right. Besides, it may be a bit presumptions and pompous of me but I bet any apprentice of mine that does what their told in their first year, will come out with a higher success ratio of having a near perfect RT with minimal vices then someone taking on their first accipiter and following a recipe out of a book. That's why I question things. Isaac

Thats what I'm saying. If you are not experienced with imprinting accipiters the best way to do a good job is to follow someone elses success. Then after you've done it successfully and UNDERSTAND why and what your doing ,then alter it or tweak it as you say. I dont know how much experience you have with accipiters or even falcons for that matter( i didnt read your bio). But it is my opinion if you havent imprinted one before ,better to follow a successful method first then alter the method on the next one. But, it's JMO.

[katzenjammer360]

I noticed that discrepancy in McD's book. I'm reading it right now. He states to never put a large reward on the lure, as it can cause possessiveness. But he says (if I remember correctly) that he calls down his hacking birds with a whole plucked carcass on the lure and he trades them off to a whole pre-weighed carcass. So I guess I'm asking what's the experiences here with that? Should one "never" put a large reward on the lure? Then how do you feed large quantities of food when needed, like on a kill?