Goose, imprint male gyr/saker

[Falcon Boy]

Well today i picked up my new hunting partner for the next few years. After 3 plane delays and 3 hours, i finally have him in hand. His name is Goose, he is a male gyr/saker and is approx. 18 days old. Here are some pics from his first feeding.







And his "imprint tank"




And dad the silver gyr-


And mom the saker

[wesleyc6]

congrats Noah. That is a big ol' baby!!!!! A face only a falconer could love. [smilie=eusa_doh.gif] I think they are so neat looking. I can't wait to hear your stories!!!!!! Nice pics and nice digs he has.

[`Chris L.]

Congrats Noah,
he looks great. Keep us posted on the progress

[Falcon Boy]

So far so good, he is getting quieter, isnt biting nearly as much, and taking the hood a little better. Eating like a champ as well!

Wes, i owe you great thanks for the astroturf with a sheet on top idea, he poops ALOT and this is 100000x easier to clean than pea gravel would have been!

[Jimmy]

Geez, that thing is ugly........
Good luck with him, Noel. How does it feel to have bought a bird, but yet not legally own it?

[Falcon Boy]

I don't mind, not planning on doing anything that would get it taken away from me. [smilie=dontknow.gif]

ps- my name is Noah, like the ark [smilie=icon_thumright.gif]

[Jimmy]

Sorry about the name typo. I knew your name, but just f-ed up...

[Falcon Boy]

No biggie, nobody says my name right [smilie=smileys13.gif]

[Saluqi]

Nice Noah! Congratulations! What's the deal with the two bands?

Paul

[Falcon Boy]

Couldnt tell ya [smilie=dontknow.gif] Sent an email to find out a minute ago.

**EDIT**

Just got an email back, the blue one is just a breeder band and i can cut it off if i want to.

[Rudd]

Congrats. Dad looks awsome!

[wesleyc6]

Yeah, they do poop a lot and hard surfaced don't absorb, so it makes it easier if you can just remove two pieces and be done. You will have to rinse out his box all along because it will seep down the edges occaisionally. Use the time that he is eating to take him outside and let him eat on the ground(if ants aren't a problem) and you can hose out his box and put the new turf and sheets in there. It gets pretty easy to clean up behind the little guy for a couple of weeks and then it gets to be more work when he starts roaming about. [smilie=eusa_clap.gif]

[buteoflyer2000]

Oh my goodness, what a cutie. His parents are beautiful. Hmm... raptor diapers .. wanders off think about that...

[Shortwingn]

Nice looking bird! Bunnies beware.

[Falcon Boy]

The nest box just wasnt working out. I'd go to the bathroom, come back and he had pooped but not made it out of the nest box, then turned around and belly flopped in it. So i did away with the nest box and am now using this-



He kept getting out of the nest box anyway, probably did it 5/6 times today just walking around "exploring" so i dont think he will be detrimented [if im wrong please correct me].

Anyone know an easy way to get bird crap off his down feathers? It looks like... well... crap. I had never thought he could damage the way he looked so quickly, i was gone for 2min, come back and his neck is covered in poo and he's laying in it. I got most of it off his beak, but when i tried to wipe it off the down it just smeared. Any ideas?

[Falcon Boy]

From here out, i plan on using this thread as a training log. A mirror of it appears on my forum as well. Any/all advice is of course welcome!

Day 19-
6am- fed full crop. Screamed a bit after but quieted down quickly. Put in kitchen with kids getting ready for school. Did much better with hood and hands in box. Last night he didn’t go to the edge of his nest bowl to poop so he just shot it across the nest, and then apparently changed sides. Now he has some mutes around his beak/wings/feet. I’ll try and clean it off later today.

10am- Screamed while eating for first minute or so, easily distracted at first, but once he realized there was food nothing would distract him, including a train going by outside with the window open. Fed full crop. Getting much better about noise and hands. Slept most the time from 6-10. Still doesn’t like the hood, screams and dodges, have to work on that more. I took him out for about half hour and he was noisy outside his box for the first 5-10 minutes but after that he just looked around for a while, took a few steps and flapped a bit, then laid down next to me and fell asleep. I cleaned his tank out as well.

1pm- Took goose outside for an hour and a half near a road. He walked around, bit at grass, etc. Was pretty vocal when he wasn’t near me, but he’d make his way too me then hush up for most the time. His crop got empty and he started being more vocal so I fed him another full crop of food outdoors, where he wasn’t fazed at all by the cars/trucks going by. He hooded much better this time.

445pm- Goose slept most of the time from after his last feeding until now. When he was awake he was generally silent. If I walked into the room after being gone for a minute he’d make two peeps, sort of like an I know you I guess, then go right back to sleep. Getting the hood on was ok, still not great, he tries to dodge a bit. Feeding went well, gobbled down everything. About 20min before he ate he pooped, turned around and tried to walk… once again face planting into it [I was out of the room when it happened]. Since he keeps doing it I got rid of the nest box idea as its not working out [I don’t like my bird covered in poop….] and now just have the towels down on top of the turf.

745pm- Well took Goose on a car ride, other than that he pretty much slept the entire time. He made a few peeps in the car but quieted down after 2-3min. Once home he slept until 730 when he started vocalizing again. I got his food, hooded him [did ok, still not good] put the food down, and let him eat. He is learning that the hood coming off equals food, as soon as it was off he kept vocalizing, looked left, looked right and dove right into the food and got a full crop. It looks like I will have to feed him every 3hrs if not a big less. I am going to try and feed him from now on BEFORE he starts vocalizing, perhaps every 2.5hrs I will offer food. I would leave food in there with him all the time, but he has a tendency to poop every direction and I don’t want to waste the food. I put him in the kitchen on the floor during dinner and afterwards with the whole family around [8 people]. He was silent as a stone until he was hungry and started whining. I can now see the tips of the wing feathers coming through the shafts, about 1cm past the end. You can just barely see the tip of the tail feather, they aren’t quite pushing out yet. I have been able to see the wing feathers all day, and they were not visible yesterday. His secondary’s are the farthest out of all his feathers, and they look to be saker-brown, so it should be interesting to see what he looks like. I am amazed at how fast he is growing. He eats about 4-6x the amount of food an adult hawk would per day.

1030pm- Goose slept a majority of the time between his last feeding and now. He was silent the entire time he was awake though, which was GREAT. He spent a good portion of time, probably 10-1030pm just lying around with his eyes open, letting me pet him, etc, never issuing a peep. He hooded better than earlier before feeding, only dodged once then sat pretty well with the hood on, just squeaked a bit. He ate right away in front of the mini-doxie that was jumping up and down constantly and barking. They had a gate and 6” between them and the bird didn’t even bat an eye. He hooded near perfectly after his meal, and then I let him and the dog head bob at each other for about 5-10min while I cleaned the imprint tank. Now he is back in his tank, asleep hopefully for the night.

Reflection on the day- Today overall went very well in my opinion. I learned that I’m going to have to predict his hunger to avoid screaming. Once I did that [1030pm feeding] he was a perfect gentleman. If I wait too long [1pm] then he becomes vocal quickly.

Today Goose learned about my hand. Yesterday night he would scream incessantly whenever he saw me, and if I put my hand in the tank he would bite it and scream louder. If he was quiet, I’d take my hand out. Well I did that all last night and he started taking the hint, going from about 5min to 1min of screaming before quiet. This evening he isn’t screaming at all and defiantly not biting when I put my hand in.

Once problem we encountered was smell. I had been using Astroturf [long leaf] covered with a sheet. Well the sheet doesn’t absorb anything, and his mutes reek. I don’t care, but my mom sure as hell does. What I figured out works best for me now is I removed his nest box [he was jumping out and having a pooping issue in it which I’ll cover in a minute] and removed the sheet covering all of the Astroturf. I then put down a small square of sheet about ¼ the size of the imprint tank for his “nest”. As soon as he poops, the white part goes down through the leaves of the turf, while the black part [the smelly part] stays on top. I just remove the black part and viola, 2 minutes later, no smell. That made my mom happy.

Another issue I ran into today was his nest box and poop. I heard that they will not poop in their nest box, which was true until he went to bed last night. Then he just cut loose, which wouldn’t have been a problem, except he then turned around and flopped in it [this is during the night while I was sleeping]. I woke up to my bird covered in his own feces… not fun. Throughout the day he decided not to go to the edge of the box, just to poop in the box… and then flop into it. So I removed the nest box and it seems to have fixed the issue, at least for the most part. I guess we will see in the morning!

On a side note, I’ve found that if I tuck a hood’s braces under the turf that is a bit too long for the box, it keeps the hood over the birds head when he lays down. I’m hoping this will get him more accustomed to the hood as well as keep it from getting muted on as much.

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed watching him grow. Yesterday I could not see his feathers at all, and this evening I can see about a cm of his wing feathers, mostly secondary’s. He looks visibly bigger as well, and felt heavier when picked up. I forgot to weigh him today; I’ll do it tomorrow if I remember. Goose was with me all day today from 5am until he went to sleep for the night, and I think we both learned a lot. So far I love the imprinting process, and I can’t wait for tomorrow!



Sleeping in the morning. Notice the start of the feathers in the wing.



New imprint tank set up


Video of him walking to me outside [he was hungry, but he stopped screaming when he got to me, so not 100% sure what that means.]

[wesleyc6]

Noah,
Enjoyed reading that! Now you have the box like I was talking about. I should have explained it more in depth. You only cover a small part of the turf so he can lay down on something soft, but also have something bristly to walk on and poop on. I never used a nest box with mine. Just the big container. Most falcons nest on a flat cliff anyway. smile.

Can't wait to hear some updates when I get back home. I have a funeral to preach today and then I am heading out to Texas.

[kimmerar]

Noah. Thanks for the info. Loved reading it. Boy - what a screamer. What are you feeding goose? Glad your keeping your logs on here.

Bird poop is sooo hard to get offonce it dries. I say - don't wait - hot water and dawn works well. I say - while it's wet use a rag with warm water - no dawn on the face. Good luck and please include what you find out about getting it off. Dried on hand feeding formula can be hard to get off once it dries.

Thanks again

[Falcon Boy]

The poop on his wings has pretty much come off. His beak is getting their, its hard to do because he doesnt like his face being touched [do you blame him?]. His neck is getting a little better, but not too much. I think as time goes on its just going to flake and i can pull it off. When it was wet i tried to wipe it off but it just smeered on his down feathers [smilie=dontknow.gif]

As to what i'm feeding, I like to feed a varied diet to all my birds. So far i've fed chicks. Today i plan on incorperating some mice/rat as well and i have a shipment of quail coming in next week. If i can get my hands on duck or squirrel i will feed that too. I figure wild parents feed different items, why not do the same in a falconry situation?

I know some people don't feed chicks becuase "they aren't healthy". This is from a pamphlet i picked up in england [and it was a b*tch to type btw]

This is extracted from the Raptor Nutrition Pamplet, produced and copywrited by Neil A. Forbes and Colin G. Flint, Copyright 2000, Honeybrook Farms Animal Foods. Any spelling errors are my own and i apologize.

"Day-old chicks are often, mistakenly, considered to have the equipvalent nutritional value of a single hen's egg. This is not the case. The formation of an embryo within an egg and the development and subsequent hatching of a chick dramatically changes th echemical and nutritional value of yolk and albumen (table 3). Day-olds are used as the basis of a staple diet for a majority of species of birds of prey. Offering a high protein, low fat diet with good levels of vitamins and calcium.

In a recent study, the body composition of young Americna Kestrels (falco sparverius) fed on a diet of either day-old cockerals or mice were compared. This comprehensive study (Lavigne et al. 1994a ET 1994b) provides ample evidence as to the nutritional adequacy of day-old cockerals as a food source for American kestrels. Indeed those kestrels fed on a diet of mice showed evidence of protein deficiency with lower growth rates and slower fledging. It should be notied, however, that the lipid (fat)/protein ratios of the mice in Levigne's study vary considerably from the mice analysed in this study and by other authors (Gessaman 1987), (table 3). It may be that the mice used by Levigne were considerably older i.e. having higher fat reserves than those examined by other authors.It is essential in studying the results of analysis of any food item, to appreciate that the analysis results does relate specifically to the food which was tested, and both day olds and rodents do vary in nutritional values dependent on age, source and what they were fed on.

Cooper (1978) has discussed possible low levels of calcium in day-old chicks, yetthe figures outlined in Table 3, based on current and extensive study, give little credence to the possibilities of deficiency. The calcium levels, which are required by growing birds of prey, would be met by any of the whole prey outlined in Table 3 (Dierrenfeld et al. 1994, Robbins 1983).

Calcium levels, however, also need to be evaluated in relation to both dietary phosphorus (P) and vitatmin D3. Ca:P ratios of 1:1 - 2:1 have been reported for indeterminate egg layers (poultry) with determinate egg layers i.e. those birds which lay eggs during a specific breeding season e.g. raptors, requiring lower levels (Bird ET Ho 1976; Dierenfeld et al. 1994). Day-olds have the correct Ca: P ratio (the most important factor) as well as good overall levels of calcium. It is note worthy that Vit A, Vit E, and Ca:P ratio are all reduced by de-yolking day-old chicks and hence this once recommended technique may now be contraindicated.

The conclusion, therefore, is that day-old chicks are the ideal staple diet for most species of birds of prey, beingnutritionally sound, with high ME/GE ratios, as well as being economically priced, readily availible and convienent to use. As previously discussed, however, it woudl be most unwise to feed exclusively one type of food, therefore, consideration shuld be given to the other types of hawk food that are readily availible."

[kimmerar]

The stuff should come off with the down. It's when those new feathers come in. You should have it figured out by then. The way you were talking made me wonder if a change of diet might have gave goose the runs a little bit (stress can help in that issue too). Sorry so blunt just a thought. It sometimes happens with baby songbirds too. Had a baby egret one time that it happened bad took me a few days to get the diet right plus it was small and was in a lake when it was found!! Day old chicks still have a lot of yolk sometimes (can cause issues for some animals was taught to use yolk for meat eating animals to help supplement but I quit that years ago - vitamins are really good now and don't cause stomach problems). I think it will be great when you get quail and mice or rats for it also.

Again - my thoughts.

I feed a variety for all birds. Brings out the best colors in song birds - again - haven't raised a baby BOP yet. You can use hand feeding formula for blue jays but nothing brings out the blue more than a variet of real insects and the weight doesn't fluctuate as much if that makes sense.

I've heard to stay away from day old chicks - maybe every once in a while. Starlings look like some very good rich meat too and my bird loves them.

Good luck and keep us informed - I need this info for when I raise a baby sharpie someday.

[everetkhorton]

Noah: I think you are on the right track with different kinds of food. I do not feed any live birds to my Rt. I freeze them first to make sure they do not have any bug's inside them. I feed lots of starling and sqr. along with chick, and this year quail. A real mixed bag. You could most liklly put frog, snakes, etc. in also. Thanks for the information on chicks. I had heard years ago you have to watch for the down on the chick not being cast. Nothing to back up the clam.

[Falcon Boy]

I have fed chick to RT's for 4 years, never had issues. Pellets were always cast same time each day.

Kimmerar- I have never heard before that chicks can lead to the runs [smilie=dontknow.gif] Raising eyasses is new to me so im open to ideas. I figured a varied diet would be what the wild parents provide as well as providing different levels of proteins/fats etc from each item, that way there is not an overload [hopefully].

I am still amazed at how much this guy eats. He ate almost 22 chicks yesterday. Looks like im ordering from rodent pro soon b/c he's eating me out of house and home [no complaints, better than not eating].

He's quieted down since this morning thank goodness. I am going to feed him again around 1130/1145 then take him to the pet store to pick out some mice for him and wolfgang [smilie=icon_thumright.gif]

[Jimmy]

22 chicks in a day?????
That shows you something right there. When you get the quail he won't eat nowhere close to that much food.

[Falcon Boy]

Honestly thats the main reason i ordered them, to decrease food comsumption as well as make a varied diet.

i started leaving food in the tank all the time as well

[harrishawker1]

Falcon Boy,,

Thant does seen like way to many chicks and the chicks are runny from the yokes and being day olds can cause scour crop and smell bad to.
I have had 3 gyr-sakers and they are very game birds.
Anyways this is what i always feed my eyeas, no matter what kind of bop, be it hawk or falcon, Mice. chopped up mice, there serve several purposes, first off, they are 1 of the best things you can feed your bird, also if u leave some of the fur on them when u chop them up the fur will help clean the crop out from all those chicks you are feeding.
You sound like you are on the rt track and doing great.
So give some thought to nice healthy mice.
I always chop my mice up before feeding so my eyeas dont no what they are and try to hunt them in the field.
Keep up the good work

[Jack]

Noah, eyass raptors eat more than when they get grown. My male goshawk ate one whole pigeon each and every day until he was hard pinned. My pigeons are huge homers that I have bred in giant homer for size and speed. They weigh in at well over a pound each. I didn't feed castings. I never feed my hawks or falcons castings. If they get it they do it on their own. When I do feed day DOC's I get castings regularly.
I do not worry so much about varied diet. I feed chicken necks as a staple. They have everything you would want for a raptor. I did not use them for feeding a growing eyass though. They burn off so much nutrition in growth and development that they can just eat all day long, and they need something that is a bit more nutritious.
The idea that sour crop can occur is not something to worry about. The crop on a bird is designed that he can carry off as much of a kill as he can. If a hawk is sick and can not or will not put over his crop he can suffer sour crop, but day old chicks digest so rapidly that it is not likely to happen. Healthy hawks do not suffer sour crop. When a hawk does suffer sour crop you have a more serious problem that is causing it.
I have a source of DOC's that only cost me a dime each. I can get pretty much as many as I want. I plan on going the first week of June and get 500 of them for $50. I plan on brooding several hundred up to the age of about 3 to 4 weeks of age before freezing. Grown hawks do not need the elements that a growing young hawk does. Not even close. They can get by on some pretty rough feed. As a staple diet, along with chicken necks, I can suppliment with fresh killed pigeon and some road kill. They always appreciate road kill when they can get it fresh.
My pigeons are pinned up and on wire. They are clean. No virus or infections to worry about. I can feed them immediately after killing them. The warm, fresh blood is always a treat for them. Freezing will not protect your hawk. Bacteria is usually not killed by freezing, and a virus can live for a hundred years or more, depending on the virus, and freezing will not even bother it. Frounce is a parasite protozoan. It is like a little creature rather than a virus or bacteria. It can not survive outside the host. It has to maintain a constant temperature or die. If you kill a pigeon and leave it lay for half an hour, the protozoan is usually dead by then. It is passed by mouth from adult to squab, adults as they fight, and possibly from mutes if they are consumed immediately. Pretty much all birds can get it. The reason dove and pigeon are so bad about it is because of their natural behaviors and nothing to do with what the are. Few other birds behave in the same manner that they could or would pass it on so easily. They live in colonies and they fight constantly over nesting sites and mates. When they fight they do so with their mouths. Mouth to mouth if you will. Few other birds will do that.
For what it is worth, I would never pay the high price of quail when it is absolutely not necessary. There are too many good sources of nutrition out there that is really cheap and available.

Jack

[Falcon Boy]

Jack- I was able to get the quail for much less than retail from a friend, i wouldn't pay 1.50+ for quail, thats outragous IMO. If i wanted them that badly i'd raise them myself.

Harrishawker- I am planning on ordering some mice this weekend. In the mean time i have some rats in the fridge which are going to get whipped out tomarrow.

[Falcon Boy]

Day 20-

6am- I awoke this morning to the sound of a screaming bird. I shot upright worried that I had over slept, just to have my brain tell me it was the local red shoulder’s [later found out they were chasing my brother and sister]. My bird was standing [yes, standing, as in the first time over 3-5seconds long he has done it!!] and quiet. I snuck out of the room and started his food defrosting. When I came back he saw me and vocalized for a few minutes, then went quiet again. When his food was done I brought it up. I hooded him, and he screamed the whole time. After I unhooded him, he saw the food, but still screamed for 4-5min before actually eating. After he was done I hooded him and removed the food, and he vocalized some more. Then he went to sleep, with his head tucked behind his wing [also a first]. After about 15min he went back to sleep laying down. I left him in my room and caught a catnap with him because one brother and one sister left for school early and wouldn’t be in the kitchen for him to watch.

845am- I awoke at 815am to him screaming. “Fun times”, nothing I love more than a vocal bird [/sarcasm]. I brought him downstairs to watch my other 2 brothers get ready for school and I prepared his food. He screamed probably 1/3 of the time he was down there until he ate at 845. He dodged the hood twice and then took it and kept screaming. Removed the hood and let him eat, then replaced it after he was done for 2 sec while I pulled out the food bowl. I then put him in his nest box while I cleaned the imprint tank. Afterwards I added a light to one side of the tank incase he was cold, although I’m not sure if he really cares about it or not. He screamed for a while, perhaps at it, even though he had a full crop. When I stick my hand in today he screams for a few min then is quiet for a few. Right now he is attacking the hood I leave in there with him. His feathers came in a lot over night, I can’t believe the difference, especially that he could actually stand today. As of now, I am going to take him to the pet store with me later to get a mouse for the snake as well as some manning for the bird. To help cease the screaming, as soon as his crop is gone I am going to offer food. At the 6am feeding I tried to leave the food in there with him, but after 15-20min he almost pooped in it, which made me remove it. He is once again being quiet now [920am]. I am hoping that it was just a morning thing from being hungry. I hope I have not inadvertently created a screamer in two days from not being 100% on par with his feeding, although he did come off the plane screaming so he could have been that way before. None the less, he is much better than he was the first day, even this morning. Quick note, I find it odd he can hate the hood, and then sleep with his head on it, under it, or beside it.

1130- Between the feedings he seemed to have a few sessions of being vocal, lasting about 5min each. They were spurred by me walking into the room, or me reaching in his imprint tank. I’d always leave my hand in till he quieted down, the wait about 30sec, then I remove it. Markedly better at this point than this morning. I think he was just hungry this morning, and I also may have scared him when I came into the room, as he is on the opposite side of the bed as my door and looking back I came in quietly and probably scared him. I am hoping that is what the screaming was about. He has stood up and flapped his wings a few times, and boy they don’t call them longwings for nothing! They are much longer than I expected at this point. His feet also seem to have grown a bit, the middle toe looks a bit longer, perhaps talon growth over foot growth? I am not sure, but I hope his feet grow as they are not very large as of now, perhaps the size of a small redtail. I still can’t get over the blue on his feet and cere, I absolutely love it. I have a feeling he is going to be brown like a Saker but with Gyr colored feet and beak. Perhaps his chest will come in silver like his dad, but all his wing feathers are brown. He spent a good portion of the time between feedings awake; I’d say at least 2/3 of the time. That is very different than yesterday, when he slept constantly unless I woke him up.

Quick note I meant to comment on before but kept forgetting. Birds dream when they sleep! I never would have believed it until I saw it, but this little guy will be fast asleep and start chirping, or flapping, or moving his legs. Pretty crazy stuff!

Had to wake him up to feed him. He vocalized like usual when I woke him up. Hood he dodged a few times and screamed the whole time. I took it off and he cropped up right away. I did not hood him afterwards b/c of how it went, I’m afraid it’s leading to a negative association by hooding him after feeding. The hood I’m using is for an adult, so it is pretty big on him and he can see some. Anyone who has done this before have any advice on the hood? He went right back to sleep after eating, and I’m about to take him to the pet store.

120pm- I put food in his box while he was asleep so that he can eat right when he wakes up. We just got back from a car ride to the pet store and a few other errands. I brought him into the store and some kids looked at him and asked questions as was expected. Overall it was great socialization for him, but he got a bit chilled and started vocalizing softly. Back in the car I blasted the heat [only 54 today] until he was warm enough then ran the rest of the errands. He has been MUCH quieter than this morning; in fact his only noise was when he was cold. Right now he is sleeping in the imprint tank next to the dogs. I also put the hood I hood him with in the tank. For his last feeding tonight I might use the lure, but I might want until tomorrow when he can stand a bit better. This afternoon noise wise is a 10 fold increase on this morning. He has been silent except for when he got chilly, and then it was just little peeps.

He woke up around 130pm and ate immediately. I didn’t hood him because I didn’t get into the room until he was already eating, and I’m sure as hell not going to stop him from eating to hood him. Once he finished I left the food in there, and he made a few peeps. Then he went to sleep next to the hood.

Quick correction on yesterday, I said his secondary’s were the longest feathers so far, but upon him stretching his wings its actually the primaries.

4pm- Goose woke up, squeaked a bit. I hooded him and he quieted down within 2sec. 5min later he ate. He has been really good about being quiet this afternoon, when he wakes up he makes a few peeps, and when I stick my hand in he peeps a few times, then is quiet. Ahh the life of how a bird should be *smiles*.

6pm- Goose slept about half the time between 4pm and 6pm. When he was awake he was silent and didn’t mind me messing with him while he was preening. Hooding went ok, still screamed and tried to dodge once. He is eating in front of both of the dogs, a German Shepard and the mini doxie without issue.

9pm- Goose was awake about half the time between feedings. He was silent until a little before he ate, when he started vocalizing a bit. Food was in his tank but I guess he was too lazy to walk to the other side to get it or he didn’t know it was there because I had only fed him out of this dish once [broke the old one on accident]. Anyway I hooded him and he vocalized the whole time, upon taking the hood off he ate immediately [I moved the dish a bit closer].

I will feed him again late, around 1130pm

Reflections on the day- Today started off on a bad note, with Goose being very vocal. I think this is due to a combination of fear and hunger. I think when I brought his food back upstairs I came over the bed too fast [he’s on the far side] and all of a sudden he had me looming over him. Hell if some big ugly dude was all a sudden over me I’d be yelling too.

The afternoon/night went 100fold better. Goose was dead silent other than when he was in the pet store [he got cold, it was 54deg outside] and right before his 9pm feeding when he didn’t see the food in his cage. He is usually a bit noisy, not vocal per se like hunger or fear screaming, just peeps after he eats for about 3-5minutes. Not constant, just a few squeaks every now and again, I guess he gets excited. All in all I’m happy with how today went after about 10am. I can reach into the imprint tank and touch him 80% of the time without him peeping at me, and if he does peep he stops within 30sec or so.

Developmentally he is growing at an incredible rate. His feathers came in about the same amount they did yesterday, showing a beautiful gold tip and a very dark chocolate feather. He will be a stunning bird if that’s how the rest of his feathers come in. Actually I’m biased, no matter what he looks like he will be stunning to me. Color doesn’t matter anyway.

The only thing that seems to be growing slowly, if at all, is his feet. I mentioned this to a friend and his response was “that’s the saker for you”. I never thought saker’s had small feet, but who knows. Anyway I’m attaching a picture of his foot in comparison to my index finger. I am surprised at how small his feet are compared to his body. When I made my lure I guess I was a bit overzealous, as it is almost as big as he is at the moment. I will have to remake it smaller.
To address the smell issue, the system I established yesterday of cleaning up the brown part of the poop immediately is working amazingly. Now the smell doesn’t even have a chance to get spread. I cleaned the tank this morning, and you can just now start to get a hint of smell from it [10pm at the moment].

I ended up removing the light I had tried in the tank. He was on the other side of the tank for about 5hrs so I took the hint. Then he went back into the middle.

Most of the poop on him has flaked off. There is still someone his neck/beak/gape/feet but its coming off quicker than I thought.

Hooding is still somewhat of an issue. He just hates it near his head if it’s in my hand. If I leave it on the ground he will sleep right against it, but as soon as I pick it up he vocalizes. Can someone please share their advice/experience? Perhaps I should just wait until he is hard-penned, then start hooding to avoid bad associations at this age?

I also tried the food 24/7, and noticed he didn’t eat other than when I would have tossed him food anyways. So what I’ve been doing is waiting till he falls asleep after eating, and removing the food. Then I’ve been replacing the food about an hour before I would normally feed him, during which time he is sleeping. When food time arrives, I will wake him up, hood him, and viola the food is there. That way if he wants to eat before I think he does all he has to do is turn around and eat.



Goose's Foot



Feather growth




Sleeping with hoods

[Falcon Boy]

Anyone got any advice on how to stop screaming for no reason? He's warm enough, has food right next to him, yet is still screaming? [smilie=bs.gif] He will scream for like 3-5min, then just stop and start preening. Yesterday he only did it in the morning, and it looks like thats how today is going to go too. Better than all day but I DO NOT want a screamer.

[smilie=BangHead.gif]


I did notice that it usually starts after a hooding session and is usually spurred by sticking my hand in his tank. Perhaps its fear of my hand after being hooded? Ideas?


**edit**

Seems to be fear causing it, as since then he has been quiet. I am going to rethink hooding this guy for now and perhaps leave it off till hardpenning.

[Shortwingn]

Noah,
I tryed putting down some thoughts but its a hugh subject. If you want give me a call. I can put down the things I do but its going to be a few pages to touch on the subject. It will take me a while.

[Falcon Boy]

Thanks a bunch Erik, I will give you a ring later today.

[kimmerar]

I would to love to hear what Erik has to say if someone could do some notes on that. Noah - I'm sure you'll do that.

Love the topic.

[Falcon Boy]

Well after a 2hr phone call, it'll be hard to type it all but i will touch on a few key points that i got from him. Erik if anything is incorrect, please correct me, and i apologize [smilie=icon_pidu.gif]

There is no such thing as too much socialization, and socialization will keep down screaming. This was the most important "take home message" if you will after talking with Erik. After talking with him, i clearly havnt been doing enough, and part of it could be boredom screaming. In fact i just had a bit of that within the past 5 min, he woke up with half a crop and started screaming. I gave him a few things to play with and he hushed. Later tonight i am going to take him to a busy petstore [not many places where I live where you can take animals]. Another way to look at it is they are stimus addicts that want to see things, and you have to keep it fun for them or they get bored. Boredom = screaming. Socializatoin also tires them out [watching everyone and everything] and a sleeping bird is not a screaming bird.

We also talked a good bit about hooding and how to fix this birds issues. I think i am going to lay off it a few days, and try again. Erik called it "resetting", or letting the bird forget about it, which doesnt always work, but sometimes does. He also said he has had a few birds that would not wear one hood if it was forced on or they have a bad memory of it, but will take other hoods perfectly. So if the reset doesnt work than i am going to whip up an anglo indian and try that. If that doesnt work, then i will try in a dark room and slowly convert to lighter and lighter situations.

Not feeding in the same place was also a big thing, as was lure association. Erik said he feeds from the lure very early on to create a food bond with the lure. He also will not feed the bird inside its box, instead, load the lure and put it in the side yard, then bring the bird out to it. Then the next feeding load the lure and put it in the front yard and let the bird go to it. Socialization while eating is an easy way to avoid carrying and mantling. Have as many people as you can walk around the bird, over the bird, etc while its eating on the lure. That way it will feel no need to mantle later in life becuase thats all it has known.

We also talked about telem and flying gyr/sakers on ground game as compared to flying other longwings on traditional quarry, what advice i should listen to as compared to what advice i shouldn't, and what i should realistically expect from this bird. Overall it was a great conversation and i learned a good bit. Once again, thanks for the time Erik, i will put your advice to use

[kimmerar]

thanks again Erik and Noah. Can't wait to hear the results. I like the idea of hooding in the dark and moving towards lighter and lighter. Sounds like a good thing to try if hooding is an issue.

[outhawkn]

The poop on his wings has pretty much come off. His beak is getting their, its hard to do because he doesnt like his face being touched [do you blame him?]. His neck is getting a little better, but not too much. I think as time goes on its just going to flake and i can pull it off. When it was wet i tried to wipe it off but it just smeered on his down feathers [smilie=dontknow.gif]

As to what i'm feeding, I like to feed a varied diet to all my birds. So far i've fed chicks. Today i plan on incorperating some mice/rat as well and i have a shipment of quail coming in next week. If i can get my hands on duck or squirrel i will feed that too. I figure wild parents feed different items, why not do the same in a falconry situation?

I know some people don't feed chicks becuase "they aren't healthy". This is from a pamphlet i picked up in england [and it was a b*tch to type btw]

This is extracted from the Raptor Nutrition Pamplet, produced and copywrited by Neil A. Forbes and Colin G. Flint, Copyright 2000, Honeybrook Farms Animal Foods. Any spelling errors are my own and i apologize.

"Day-old chicks are often, mistakenly, considered to have the equipvalent nutritional value of a single hen's egg. This is not the case. The formation of an embryo within an egg and the development and subsequent hatching of a chick dramatically changes th echemical and nutritional value of yolk and albumen (table 3). Day-olds are used as the basis of a staple diet for a majority of species of birds of prey. Offering a high protein, low fat diet with good levels of vitamins and calcium.

In a recent study, the body composition of young Americna Kestrels (falco sparverius) fed on a diet of either day-old cockerals or mice were compared. This comprehensive study (Lavigne et al. 1994a ET 1994b) provides ample evidence as to the nutritional adequacy of day-old cockerals as a food source for American kestrels. Indeed those kestrels fed on a diet of mice showed evidence of protein deficiency with lower growth rates and slower fledging. It should be notied, however, that the lipid (fat)/protein ratios of the mice in Levigne's study vary considerably from the mice analysed in this study and by other authors (Gessaman 1987), (table 3). It may be that the mice used by Levigne were considerably older i.e. having higher fat reserves than those examined by other authors.It is essential in studying the results of analysis of any food item, to appreciate that the analysis results does relate specifically to the food which was tested, and both day olds and rodents do vary in nutritional values dependent on age, source and what they were fed on.

Cooper (1978) has discussed possible low levels of calcium in day-old chicks, yetthe figures outlined in Table 3, based on current and extensive study, give little credence to the possibilities of deficiency. The calcium levels, which are required by growing birds of prey, would be met by any of the whole prey outlined in Table 3 (Dierrenfeld et al. 1994, Robbins 1983).

Calcium levels, however, also need to be evaluated in relation to both dietary phosphorus (P) and vitatmin D3. Ca:P ratios of 1:1 - 2:1 have been reported for indeterminate egg layers (poultry) with determinate egg layers i.e. those birds which lay eggs during a specific breeding season e.g. raptors, requiring lower levels (Bird ET Ho 1976; Dierenfeld et al. 1994). Day-olds have the correct Ca: P ratio (the most important factor) as well as good overall levels of calcium. It is note worthy that Vit A, Vit E, and Ca:P ratio are all reduced by de-yolking day-old chicks and hence this once recommended technique may now be contraindicated.

The conclusion, therefore, is that day-old chicks are the ideal staple diet for most species of birds of prey, beingnutritionally sound, with high ME/GE ratios, as well as being economically priced, readily availible and convienent to use. As previously discussed, however, it woudl be most unwise to feed exclusively one type of food, therefore, consideration shuld be given to the other types of hawk food that are readily availible."

Noah,

Nice looking bird. The study you mentioned has been under scrutiny(sp) it was done by and for Honeybrook. And they raise and sell chicks. There is some question as to just how accurate it is. Use your own judgement just wanted to you know.
You have mentioned this bird screaming. Is it still?

Nutrition,
Their are a lot of people with well meaning but mis-informed info about raptor nutrition. If you will email the Peregrine Fund,The Santa Cruz project, Cornell University, The Raptor Center, all will be happy to help you with nutrition. You can also purchase a video by Dr. Nick Fox; http://www.falcons.co.uk/default.asp?id=113
I highly recommend this video! Or you can purchase the book. " Understanding the Bird of Prey, by Nick Fox" If you really want to know what is healthy for your bird this is it.

Can raptors live on less nutritional food ,sure. Can they catch a few rabbits,sure. If you had two fighters(Boxers) and one sat on the couch and ate cheeseburgers, and the other was up running and working out and eating the right food which would be the most likely to win a fight? I would go with the guy who exercised and ate right. Same with raptors. Diet and exercise. What foods do gyrs eat, what foods do sakers eat? You want to try and feed as close to a natural diet as possible for a healthy happy raptor.


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