My new little girl

[frootdog]

Oh I'm going to go ahead and put her anklets on her. Should I start to teather her soon?

Personally I put the anklets on as soon as they are standing well. They will tire of them quickly. Once they get pretty mobile, I tether too. Haak says in his book and so does McD if I remember, that waiting too long can cause an ugly scene with the bating.

The biggest thing I regret is not tethering Turbo Dog sooner. I too got caught up in how cool and cute it was with the bird running around free in the house. It was a huge mistake. She bates constantly still to this day.

[varanus]

Well I put on her anklets and now she is pissed. She is running around like a crazy bird running into stuff and jumping around and biting at the anklets. I hope she stops soon I'm afraid that she might hurt herself. I'm going to start teathering her tomorrow, this should piss her off pretty good . Man are her talons sharp she jumped on my arm and then lost her balance and clamped down with those little needles.

[FredFogg]

Mark, don't tether her until she isn't paying attention to the anklets. Give her some time to get used to them.

[varanus]

Okay I'll give her a couple of days although she seems to not mind them too much right now. I was only going to start today because I figured I should just do it all at once that way she has stressed for a shorter period of time. She jumped onto my bare hand and stood there for a bit but she didn't like it when I tried to move around but all in all she is coming along really fast. It wont be long now until we start hunting I hope. I'm going to start only feeding her three times a day today as she pretty much only eats that often now on her own anyway and start some baggies tomorrow I think. I'm also going to introduce the lure tomorrow maybe as well. I'm still not going to try and take weight off though. Oh the first band on her tail is all the way in now and she is working on the first light colored band now.

[varanus]

I tried her on a scored and teathered baggie sparrow but she didn't see the least bit hungry or interested. She did feed on it after about an hour of sitting next to it but by this time I had dispatched it so that it didn't have to suffer very long. I'm going to try another one for her last meal of the day and see how she does, she should be much hungrier here in a little bit. I'm going to start only feeding her outside and change the location as often as possible.

[varanus]

Well holy crap all this time I thought I had a cute cuddly baby chicken and it turns out it is a coopers hawk . I finally got to see her act like a coopers hawk. She caught a baggie sparrow that was teathered and was mantling over it and trying to kill me whenever I tried to get my hand in there to dispatch it. It took her a minute to decide that she could do it but when she finally decided she could she jumped at it with both feet. She will be getting at least 2 baggies a day from now on and I'll introduce the lure tomorrow for her lunch time feeding. I look forward to seeing her develop her skills and start flying them down.

[varanus]

When will she get over her fear of falling because she still raises hell when ever I have to pick her up (she got between a chair and the couch yesterday and I couldn't fit the bowl I use to lift her normaly in there to get her). I'm going to have to start teathering her today she is jumping out of the 3' high fenced area that I keep her in in the living room and then she runs all over the place. When should I start carrying her around on the glove?

[varanus]

Well she seems to like me pretty well. She has been laying down in my lap for the past hour snoozing away. Did I say that I really like this bird? Well I really like this bird.

[varanus]

Well I went ahead and teathered and boy is she pissed off ight now. I tied to put he on the bow perch but she just jumped off and went crazy. She is a little calmer and is standing on her perch but who knows how long that will last, in fact she just jumped off.

[musketdaft]

Don’t attempt to help your hawk onto the perch let it get up there itself and don’t worry the hawk will soon realise its tethered and is not going anywhere. Alf.

Well I went ahead and teathered and boy is she pissed off ight now. I tied to put he on the bow perch but she just jumped off and went crazy. She is a little calmer and is standing on her perch but who knows how long that will last, in fact she just jumped off.

[varanus]

Sorry I haven't updated for a while my power cord craped out on me. She is doing pretty well with everything. She bates a bit ad still sleeps on the floor but she perches on her perch a lot. She kills teatherd baggies really well although it takes her a couple of minutes of looking around before she chases them down. She is killing hen phessie chicks that are nearly the same size as her. There are times when she acts like she has never seen me before and cirps and trys to run away from me but that only lasts for a few seconds and then she is fine. I weighed her the other day and she weighed 350 grams. She had 1 feather on the back of her wing that sticks out funny and I'm not sure if it is broken or if there is something else wrong with it. When she kills her baggie I trade her for a skined and gutted pigeon because I don't think the phessie is a rich enough food for her while she is still growing. She mantles, screams, and foots like crazy while on a kill which she more often than not goes streight for the head and neck beacuse she has learned that it keeps thosephessies from being able to kick the crap out of her which they try to do.

[musketdaft]

Is it wise to over face such a young hawk with such large baggies?
Not that I know much about baggies but it would seem to me that the art of producing baggies to a hawk is to build up confidence in a young hawk giving something like you say that can “kick the crap out of it” might just put the hawk off don’t you think not to mention the chance with the struggle to cause the hawk some feather damage?
Just a thought! Alf.

Sorry I haven't updated for a while my power cord craped out on me. She is doing pretty well with everything. She bates a bit ad still sleeps on the floor but she perches on her perch a lot. She kills teatherd baggies really well although it takes her a couple of minutes of looking around before she chases them down. She is killing hen phessie chicks that are nearly the same size as her. There are times when she acts like she has never seen me before and cirps and trys to run away from me but that only lasts for a few seconds and then she is fine. I weighed her the other day and she weighed 350 grams. She had 1 feather on the back of her wing that sticks out funny and I'm not sure if it is broken or if there is something else wrong with it. When she kills her baggie I trade her for a skined and gutted pigeon because I don't think the phessie is a rich enough food for her while she is still growing. She mantles, screams, and foots like crazy while on a kill which she more often than not goes streight for the head and neck beacuse she has learned that it keeps thosephessies from being able to kick the crap out of her which they try to do.

[varanus]

Only the first one that I gave her had a chace to kick her and I quickly put an end to its abiity to do so. After that she grabs only the head and neck and then tears at the base of the skull untill the baggie stops moving. She doesn't seem to be the least bit afraid of them and runs them down after only a few minutes of looking around outside. I would much rather use sparrows but I think I have caught al of the ones that are close to me as I haven't caught any for several days.

[KidK]

Mark,

My understanding is they absorb calcium better with sunlight, after all, they are at the top of a tree and get sunshine daily in the wild.

Mark, great looking little Cooper's hawk.. Man, I love these critters!

Fred, you are right, in a round about way..

Sunlight gives us Vitamin D, and Vitamin D is critical for the absorption of calcium.

You can give calcium supplements to your bird, but without Vitamin D, either IN the calcium supplement, or via natural sunlight, the calcium will not be absorbed well. I always try to do both, sunlight and light dusting on the food with calcium suppliments.

Sunlight is good for all living things.. I know it puts me in a better mood!

For my imprints, I use an old Keen Kutter meat grinder to double grind whole (all bones in, skinned, eviscerated) quail. Then, I scrape a 600 mg calcium tablet (with Vitamin D added) with the blade of a knife over the ground quail. About the ammount that you would use if you were well salting your dinner.

The whole bones, broke down in the grinder are a great source for calcium, but you have to have the Vitamin D source for absorbtion..

A cheep food processor may work if it has a "chop" feature.. otherwise you will have a quail smoothie!

Mark, I saw the photo with a HUGE lure next to the chick.. I think Lee Slikkers may have posted a photo of a small starling sized lure he made a couple years back that is almost identical to what I have used with all my Cooper's and Goshawks. http://www.nafex.net/showthread.php?t=204

[FredFogg]

Mark, I would have to say at 350 g at this age, she is a he! LOL I think you all ended up with males! Just goes to show you I don't a damn thing about picking the sex!

[varanus]

I made a starling sized lure yesterday and I use it for both the Peale's and the coops now. Yeah Fred I was thinking the same thing but I'll keep calling him a her just because I'm so used to it and I don't want to have to figure out a new name I'll just get confused. Well like you told me knowing the sex at the age we pulled is a crap shoot. I'm happy with him/her either way, crow might be a pretty good fight for him but We'll see what happens.

[varanus]

Wow she is acting like she has never even seen before today. She was screaming and backing away from me footing and biting, I didn't change anything. She also showed fear of the glove which she never has before and I ended up taking it off which got her to at least step onto my fist so we could go outside to kill her baggie. She has calmed down a bit now but wow what happened. She showed me that she can really fly last night. I had her on my fist and was standing at the far side of the room talking to my wife when all of a sudden she just flew all the way across the room and landed on the back of a chair which is about 20 feet. I was so excited I picked her up and let her do it 5 more times just to make sure it wasn't an accident. She has 3 of her dark tail bands in now so She doesn't have much longer untill she is hardpenned. I'm thinking it might be time to start slowly cutting her weight a little. Oh Should I start holding her jesses and keeping her on the fist or should I still let her just jump off whenever she wants for now? I'm so worried about pissing her off I think I might be taking stuff a bit to slow which will probably end up pissing her off even more.

[Saluqi]

Wow she is acting like she has never even seen before today. She was screaming and backing away from me footing and biting, I didn't change anything. She also showed fear of the glove which she never has before and I ended up taking it off which got her to at least step onto my fist so we could go outside to kill her baggie. She has calmed down a bit now but wow what happened. She showed me that she can really fly last night. I had her on my fist and was standing at the far side of the room talking to my wife when all of a sudden she just flew all the way across the room and landed on the back of a chair which is about 20 feet. I was so excited I picked her up and let her do it 5 more times just to make sure it wasn't an accident. She has 3 of her dark tail bands in now so She doesn't have much longer untill she is hardpenned. I'm thinking it might be time to start slowly cutting her weight a little. Oh Should I start holding her jesses and keeping her on the fist or should I still let her just jump off whenever she wants for now? I'm so worried about pissing her off I think I might be taking stuff a bit to slow which will probably end up pissing her off even more.

I don't know, what do you think you should do?

[voslerdo]

Hey Mark...Haven't been on the forum for awhile...just picked up this thread. Changes in birds that aren't associated with anything external usually signal an internal change like hormones developing or something of that order. You've read the behavioral book by McDermott, make certain nothing you're doing is causing a negative effect first. If not, weight reduction is probably in order....slowly, just a couple grams at a time. You'll probably see improvement in just a small weight loss. He will display his aggression on the baggies first and then the fear response will decrease as he lowers. It doesn't take much for the Gos, so it will probably take less than you think to get him back, but don't go fast or you risk feather damage before hard penning. I'm no expert on the little guys (or the big guys either, for that matter), but I waited until the fear response got too far on mine and paid the price with a long delay in development. Good to see you're having so much fun! Isn't it amazing how attached we get?

[varanus]

I'm going to start lowering her weight a bit probably about 2 grams a day and hopefully that will do the trick. I'm also going to increase the amount of time that I have her on the fist because right now I don't think that it is enough. Any advice you experienced shortwinger have would be great. This is a lot harder than they make it sound in the book.

[FredFogg]

Hey Mark, talked to Bon today, appears his is a female (425 g or 475 g, can't remember what he said). I should have known, when I pulled mine, she was the smallest one in the nest, turned out to be a female. Bon pulls the smallest one and you guys pull the bigger ones and his turns out to be a female and yours are males. LOL Still should be lots of fun!

[musketdaft]

What age is your hawk now Mark and do you have any recent photos? Alf.

I'm going to start lowering her weight a bit probably about 2 grams a day and hopefully that will do the trick. I'm also going to increase the amount of time that I have her on the fist because right now I don't think that it is enough. Any advice you experienced shortwinger have would be great. This is a lot harder than they make it sound in the book.

[GONEHAWKN]

all good advice so far. the one thing i would do if your not already, is to keep a good, very detailed journal. sometimes reading what you have done brings things to light. i know it sounds weird, but it has worked for me in the past......

[varanus]

I keep a pretty good journal. I droped her 3 grams and it has made a huge difference.

I don't have any recent pics because my camera batteries are dead and I need to replace them. But just think of a passage coops with a short tail and that pretty much descrides how she looks now. She only has 3 dark tail bands in right now.

[varanus]

She has suddenly decided that the glove is evil and screams and backs away from it but if I take it off she calms right down and acts like nothing happened. I'm going to start pushing her with the baggies and start trying them out of the car window because she is getting really close to being able to hunt. I may be putting her out to hack down at my grandparents place.

[GONEHAWKN]

maybe someone else will chime in here on this one, BUT, i have never hacked a Coops. i cant help but think that enough freedom will allow it/them to start to revert to a very independent bird. of the imprint Coops that i have done, any significant amount of alone time seemed to ruin them.........

[FredFogg]

maybe someone else will chime in here on this one, BUT, i have never hacked a Coops. i cant help but think that enough freedom will allow it/them to start to revert to a very independent bird. of the imprint Coops that i have done, any significant amount of alone time seemed to ruin them.........

McD has an entire chapter on tame hacking imprints and has had success doing it. He and Kurt on here did it last year and their birds turned out fine. And I believe Barry does it with some of his gos's. I am sure some of these folks can chime in here.

[voslerdo]

Mark...I don't think it wise to tame hack when the bird is raised as a receipe bird. It is already too far along to let it loose. The tame hack is a natural progression beginning just shortly after hatching. It involves allowing the freedom to go with the birds inability to catch anything for itself. Once the bird is capable of sustained kills, the hack is over. With the recipe, you are bringing the bird into line by introducing hunting at a much earlier age (with baggies...as you have done). The bird's psychological state is completely different. In the hack, the bird is totally dependent on you as a parent. In the recipe, the bird becomes dependent on you as a provider of hunting slips. It becomes so good at killing, that weight control and multiple slips are the key to its success. What I think is happening here is a very natural hormone release that has a protective effect for a wild bird. It is called dispersal hormone because it changes the attitude of the bird towards its environment in a way that makes it leave the parents territory and find one of its own. It appears that in most birds of prey this happens right after or just before hard penning. If you read in the recipe, you get a hint of this because McD tells us to lower the weight just before hard penning. Weight control is the most useful thing you have now. I would bet that if you let him go in the midst of a fear response, you'd never see him again unless he was close to starvation. Stick with the recipe. It is too late for a hack. This only lasts 4 to 6 weeks, and with proper weight reduction, you can attenuate it. After it passes, you will have a bird with an adult attitude ready to hunt it's ass off.

[musketdaft]

Don’t think its natural hormone release causing the fear of the glove its something Marks Done? Alf.

Mark...I don't think it wise to tame hack when the bird is raised as a receipe bird. It is already too far along to let it loose. The tame hack is a natural progression beginning just shortly after hatching. It involves allowing the freedom to go with the birds inability to catch anything for itself. Once the bird is capable of sustained kills, the hack is over. With the recipe, you are bringing the bird into line by introducing hunting at a much earlier age (with baggies...as you have done). The bird's psychological state is completely different. In the hack, the bird is totally dependent on you as a parent. In the recipe, the bird becomes dependent on you as a provider of hunting slips. It becomes so good at killing, that weight control and multiple slips are the key to its success. What I think is happening here is a very natural hormone release that has a protective effect for a wild bird. It is called dispersal hormone because it changes the attitude of the bird towards its environment in a way that makes it leave the parents territory and find one of its own. It appears that in most birds of prey this happens right after or just before hard penning. If you read in the recipe, you get a hint of this because McD tells us to lower the weight just before hard penning. Weight control is the most useful thing you have now. I would bet that if you let him go in the midst of a fear response, you'd never see him again unless he was close to starvation. Stick with the recipe. It is too late for a hack. This only lasts 4 to 6 weeks, and with proper weight reduction, you can attenuate it. After it passes, you will have a bird with an adult attitude ready to hunt it's ass off.

[varanus]

I'm not sure what I could have done but I changed gloves and now she is just fine. She was fine with that glove in the morning and then when I went to pick her up in the afternoon she just went crazy. I only figured it was the glove because as soon as I took it off she calmed right down. I tried her at a teathered baggie from the car today and she didn't want anything to do with it. I'll keep trying her from the car she should figure it out pretty quick.

[dirthawker2004]

mark any new pics

[varanus]

I need to fix my camera but I'll try and post some tomorrow.

[FredFogg]

Mark...I don't think it wise to tame hack when the bird is raised as a receipe bird. It is already too far along to let it loose. The tame hack is a natural progression beginning just shortly after hatching. It involves allowing the freedom to go with the birds inability to catch anything for itself. Once the bird is capable of sustained kills, the hack is over. With the recipe, you are bringing the bird into line by introducing hunting at a much earlier age (with baggies...as you have done). The bird's psychological state is completely different. In the hack, the bird is totally dependent on you as a parent. In the recipe, the bird becomes dependent on you as a provider of hunting slips. It becomes so good at killing, that weight control and multiple slips are the key to its success. What I think is happening here is a very natural hormone release that has a protective effect for a wild bird. It is called dispersal hormone because it changes the attitude of the bird towards its environment in a way that makes it leave the parents territory and find one of its own. It appears that in most birds of prey this happens right after or just before hard penning. If you read in the recipe, you get a hint of this because McD tells us to lower the weight just before hard penning. Weight control is the most useful thing you have now. I would bet that if you let him go in the midst of a fear response, you'd never see him again unless he was close to starvation. Stick with the recipe. It is too late for a hack. This only lasts 4 to 6 weeks, and with proper weight reduction, you can attenuate it. After it passes, you will have a bird with an adult attitude ready to hunt it's ass off.

Scott, I have to disagree with you! Maybe if you are talking tame hack in the sense of how they do falcons with a feed box or whatever it is called and the birds are out until they start killing and then taken up. But to take the bird out, turn it loose for 3 or so hours and come back and call it to the lure is a fine way to tame hack an imprint accipiter. If the bird is kept fat, it will chase birds and build muscle and hone its flying skills. You just have to make sure you do it in as safe an area as possible. But any type of tame hack is a risk.

[voslerdo]

I don't disagree with you. I have no experience with hacking recipe birds. I just felt that in this case, if the bird is showing a fear response, it might be hard to get it back without weight control.

[FredFogg]

I don't disagree with you. I have no experience with hacking recipe birds. I just felt that in this case, if the bird is showing a fear response, it might be hard to get it back without weight control.

I think most imprint accipiters, once wed to the lure will come to it at most any weight if hungry. That is why I said to take it out late in the day, it will have worked up an appetite and with approaching darkness, will most likely come in.