Decline in NAFA membership

[Richard F, Hoyer]

Before the recent thread on 'Beebe and Webster', I had became aware of a somewhat related issue, NAFA membership. Since I joined this forum in late 1997, ever so often individuals have expressed dissatisfaction with past NAFA leadership. It is my guess that such criticism has increased the past year in response to how the current NAFA leadership has dealt with the two controversies of 'Private Property' (of falconry birds) and the 'Petition' issue.

So the question becomes, has this dissatisfaction resulted in a further erosion of NAFA membership? The reason I mentioned 'further erosion' is because over the past 10 years (Nov. 1998 - Jan. 2008), a highly significant loss in membership has already been documented. In my search for the facts in the 'Private Property' issue, I came across an article in the August, 2008 issue of Hawk Chalk entitled "Vanishing Membership--Fact or Fiction". The article was authored by NAFA past president Darryl Perkins who is now the NAFA Membership Secretary.

Somewhat puzzling is why Darryl chose that title as he amply demonstrated as FACT, that a very substantial decline in membership occurred over the prior 10 year period. Darryl
indicated an unknown amount of drop in membership occurred from 1997 to 1998 and as of November of 1998, membership stood at 2933. So it is not unreasonable to assume that the 1997 membership would have approached about 3000 +/- members.

Then from the information provided by Darryl in the 'Petition' controversy (see link in 'Beebe and Webster' thread), membership as of mid Jan., 2008 stood at 1959. Thus, in a 10 year period, a whopping loss of approximately 1000 members had taken place. That represents a 34% - 35% decline in just 10 years.

I do not pretend to know just what factor or combination of factors may have contributed to the large decline in membership. One person I contacted believes that one contributing factor has been the increased use of the internet with this forum being a perfect example. In years past, I have not followed NAFA goings-on usually leaving my NAFA Journals and Hawk Chalks unread so have little to no knowledge of past NAFA history.

Perhaps others on this forum have some insight as to what transpired, and in particular, what may have happened during the two year period from 1998 to 2000 when a precipitous decline occurred of about 700 - 750 members as shown by Darryl's graph on page 22 of the August, 2008 Hawk Chalk. I find it a stretch to believe that use of the internet could result in such a steep decline in membership over just two years. And I believe that decline occurred before the annual membership dues were increased from $25 to $35.

Another manner of looking at the situation is as follows: It is my recollection that in the late 1990s, there were about 3900 licensed falconer in the U.S. As of last year, there were approximately 4500 licensed falconers in the U.S. These figures are based in my recollection of information I read from USF&WS sources but may be off. If anyone has better information, please set the record straight. At any rate, in spite of an increase in licensed falconers in the U.S., instead of maintaining or increasing membership, NAFA has been loosing members during the same period of time.

Keep in mind, I am not taking into account Canadian or other non-U.S NAFA members which possibly might alter the picture to some degree. But if the above figures are close, what has occurred is as follows: As of Nov., 1998, NAFA represented 77% of licensed U.S. falconers (3000 divided by 3900). Then 10 years later, as of January, 2008, NAFA's representation of U.S. licensed falconers dropped to about 43.5 % (1959 divided by 4500).

So some questions come to mind. As of right now (mid June 2009), what is the current NAFA membership? In the past year and a half since Jan., 2008, has NAFA membership increased, declined, or held steady? Has the recent handling of the two controversies had any effect on membership? The individual that mentioned the internet as being a probable factor for some of the decline over the past 10 years also suggested that the recent discontent with current NAFA leadership has likely resulted in a negative effect on membership. But at this point, I don't know that to be the case.

Beside a decline in representation, one can surmise that the resulting loss of revenue quite possibly complicates the NAFA budgetary process. At $35 membership dues, a drop of 1000 members translates into an approximate loss of $35,000.

I could be in error but it would seem that any continued loss in membership is likely to damage the organization and its ability to claim it represents U.S falconers. Having become a member of NAFA in 1962, I am saddened to see what has taken place with NAFA over the past decade and instead of continued to grow, it has instead shown signs of decline.

Again, I a not a follower of NAFA affairs. So I do not know if the current NAFA leadership has examined this problem and if so, if they have proposed anything of substance to stem the tide. And if they haven't, they have their heads in the sand. Hope I am wrong.

Richard F. Hoyer

[longbow]

This should be fun...............................

[Zarafia]

I'll tell you what.
I think that NAFA has always benefited from the fact that almost all sponsors encourage their apprentices to become NAFA members. Therefore there will always be a number on new members each year.
The internet forums are simply a fact of life these days. They are not to be blamed for the drop in membership. It does so happen that internet forums provide falconers with a way to communicate. A much more modern and efficient way than the Journals or Hawkchalks could ever do.
ChrisL has extended a very gracious offer to NAFA in terms of giving them a place here.
No doubt about it, if there was a forum like this one where NAFA members could communicate, discuss things, the members would feel like they had gotten their opportunity to aire their feelings.
JMO

[sharptail]

It seems the voice of US falconers is still changing and has changed. I am glad that any US orginization that ignores its own by laws and its voting members can no longer claim to be 'THE' voice.

That said. I am still a member and still seek change from within. It is a sad day to think of all the truly great things that have come through NAFA and that a few that no longer represent us should control all of the greatness associated with the club, for so many years. I personally reject the idea that much of the current and recent past board has a right to NAFA's glorious past and look forward to a day when we again have a worthy NAFA board to once again lead.

[Hawkmom]

I feel that there should be more direct, tangible 'benefits' to a NAFA member rather than just publications. Membership in other organizations, such as the NRA has benefits, such an insurance option. I would like to see a liability insurance for falconers offered. Or even an accidental death insurance offered. Other groups offer such benefits. Maybe we can team up with a pre-paid legal service for falconry and bird of prey related legal issues would be another. Oh yes, I've mentioned this to NAFA officials before. So, it is not a new thing. I also agree, a forum for NAFA members only. Why is NAFA soo slow to get it going with a newer and more streamlined website? I remember that there was great resistance (by certain members of the board) to even having a NAFA website when everyone else had one going in the late 90's. They need to get with the times. News and issues move very, very fast nowdays. I will still remain a NAFA member, have been one since 1977.

[goshawks00]

Interest topic... it reminds me of folks running around in the foriegn cars berating the American auto industry, how sad they are at the troubles they are having, how they deserve what they get, it's just to bad ...I remember this or that and on and on...

I sometimes think members want a "braveheart" type leadership , an in your face mentality rather than a quieter, slower, diplomatic/dogmatic style... There have been too many issues that drug on and on.. the situation in Colorado.. for example, or the Beebe issue , or responses to some of the USFWS directives... Some complain about inactivty, some complain about to many polls and not enough response to the polls if it goes contrary to the established. There is definately a need for that oft used term transparency

Yes NAFA does need a forum for the members, it does need better representation, it does need to function in a quicker matter to issues that the MEMBERSHIP deems important....

Does NAFA represent the falconers of the US... well.. until another group is larger than them, yes they do.... You will NOT get the other 58% of falconers to stand up and voice their opinons in joint unison on any given isuue , there is just to much complacency, so they are the 'voice' appointed by it's members to represent them. The rest will continue to talk and jesture and try to stir up discord. it's the American way.
.02 Barry

[sevristh]

...it would seem that any continued loss in membership is likely to damage the organization and its ability to claim it represents U.S falconers.

I sure hope so!

Richard, you write this dissertation about the decline of NAFA membership and theorize about the possible causes yet at the end, you say that you do not follow them closely but you still support them....

I think this IS THE MAIN PROBLEM with NAFA! Too many people just doing what they've always done and the keep sending in that check every year and they have NO CLUE what the hell goes on! This fact is VERY evident in the last round of elections. The turnout on voters was pathetic. While I don't agree with Jeff's stand of trying for change from within (simply because I don't think it's possible at this point), at least he has TAKEN a stand! It's not the board that needs to pull their heads out of the sand.....it's the MEMBERSHIP that needs to pull their heads out of their collective ASS!

[jfseaman]

NAFA - Falconers United for the benefit of the few.

I have conflicting emotions and depressed aspirations for the effectiveness of the organization.

I get very up beat when I think about the possibilities with a strong NAFA. More falconry freedoms, less persecution from LE, the list would seem endless.

I get so depressed when I think about the realities, in fighting, self aggrandizement, subsidized travel at members expense and finally total and complete hostility to a new organization that attempts to fill the void left by NAFA. The new organization should have been a supported interest group within NAFA or at a minimum a member organization. Instead we get wasted time, mimickery and my pet peeve, members of the 'rival' organization seem to be singled out for dificulties in expressing their voice though voting.

The current leadership consists of small minded protectionists with small views of what falconry is, small asperations for falconry in the US and small opinions of the membership. I cringed when they came into power and my fears have prooved founded.

I get so frustrated, I can't even figure out how to get involved because they don't act. The web site is crap, no formum, no connection to this forum, no action for volunteers outside field meets.

NAFA has become a stinking rotten dinasour carcass.

YES, I'm still a member and I will continue to be a member.

[sevristh]

YES, I'm still a member and I will continue to be a member.

Well that's good. At least that way nothing will change...

[jfseaman]

Well that's good. At least that way nothing will change...

I have to be a member in order to make NAFA change, that is if I ever figure out how to break the old guard.

Just re-read the last approved minutes. I wish we would stop subsidizing travel expenses. Next thing you know, they board will vote themselves a salary just like congress.

[wyodjm]

I have to be a member in order to make NAFA change, that is if I ever figure out how to break the old guard.

Just re-read the last approved minutes. I wish we would stop subsidizing travel expenses. Next thing you know, they board will vote themselves a salary just like congress.

Subsidizing? Over the years, I spent $12K - $14K out of my own pocket working on the eagle issue. I know it was at least $12 grand. NAFA knew I spent that much money. Would I do it again? I'm not sure. I doubt it. Not for this administration. NAFA is just down right hostile to anyone with an opinion.

I just don't know what to say anymore. I think the NAFA leadership is counting on the silent majority membership. Falconers are lazy. As long as there isn't some sort of political, or legal cataclysmic issue directly affecting them, you won't hear from them. I'm just learning to accept it. It's just that I'm such a slow learner.

[wyodjm]

I have to be a member in order to make NAFA change, that is if I ever figure out how to break the old guard.

Just re-read the last approved minutes. I wish we would stop subsidizing travel expenses. Next thing you know, they board will vote themselves a salary just like congress.

Actually, the subsidizing of travel expenses isn't that big of a deal to me. I've served on several national, state, and regional boards over the years. Getting reimbursed for expenses is quite normal if you serve on a voluntary board. I wouldn't have served on a few of these boards if, while traveling around the country, I had to buy my own airline tickets or pay for my hotel accommodations.

Serving on a board for a large organization takes quite a bit of commitment and time. People should get reimbursed for their expenses. It's the least an organization can do for a person willing to put in the time and energy. It also levels the playing field by allowing everyone to participate and just not the independently wealthy from holding key board positions.

If NAFA grew to the size of an organization where it actually did represent the vast majority of licensed falconers in the U.S,, I would even be in favor of paying people to hold certain key positions, such as the membership secretary. No one, in the history of NAFA, has ever held that position as efficiently and as thoroughly as Alan Beske did. It was practically a full time position for Alan. Yet he did it completely on a voluntary basis. Bridget did an outstanding job also. A national organization with a vision for expanding its horizons simply can't depend solely on volunteer positions. Not really. Not today.

Now, all this has to be approached using common sense and there has to be a system of checks and balances to assure a certain standard of excellence and to prevent abuse. That's where a strong board comes in. Elected by the membership. The president should not, under any circumstances dictate to the board. A regional director is responsible to his/her constituency. Who's watching the president?

[sharptail]

Reality is, that what keeps falconry in this country from being legislated out of existance is falconers being informed about upcoming threats so they can respond through the governmental political machine.

Individual, non club associated people's voices can be heard, but the main problem is without club affiliation they would have to be there own political watchdog nation wide. The clubs put out publications and throw falconry parties that are very popular, but to me this is not what it all about.

Currently the 2 lagrer clubs are about equal in sending out email notice of what is on the political horizon. In recent memory, Darryl P. dropped the ball on this when he quit sending (at least me) these warnings, even after repeated requests. As stated in my previous post, and well thought out in advance, NAFA is no longer "THE", as in only place to get the information and represent yourself. In the short run the AFC has been better. Both are members of the IAF and both deal with Dept. of Interior on falconry law. Without watch dog groups I suspect that falconry would be gone in 10 years. Neither orginization has a spotless record and NAFA's members, need to clean up the boards act, through the ballot, as no one else is able. Even with radically declilning membership, it is not going to go away.

By the way Barry, I own 5 rigs and all are either Chevy, Ford or Jeep, and that is no accident.

[goshawks00]

Dan, it's funny I had written something about paid positions within NAFA then deleted it, figuring no one in their right mind would think that any position within the org should be paid. I have long thought that a full time legislative laison and PR co-ordinator to work WITHIN the club would serve us all. Just listening to the complaints about membership mishaps and voting slips not being delivered to members would be enough to cause NAFA to recognize that if you want something done right, then pay to have it done. With the current atmosphere surrounding it's every move NAFA wouldn't dare approach it's membership with yet more expenitures would it?
barry
Jeff likewise we own three Fords, two old Willys (forerunners to Jeeps)

[jfseaman]

Dan, it's funny I had written something about paid positions within NAFA then deleted it, figuring no one in their right mind would think that any position within the org should be paid. I have long thought that a full time legislative laison and PR co-ordinator to work WITHIN the club would serve us all. Just listening to the complaints about membership mishaps and voting slips not being delivered to members would be enough to cause NAFA to recognize that if you want something done right, then pay to have it done. With the current atmosphere surrounding it's every move NAFA wouldn't dare approach it's membership with yet more expenitures would it?
barry
Jeff likewise we own three Fords, two old Willys (forerunners to Jeeps)

You know who are excellent in association with NAFA, Brandi, Krys, Sheldon and all the other THA that helped make Amarillo, the Colorado Hawking Club, the Nebraska club and more that I haven't had the honor to meet yet.

If NAFA got to %70 of the quality of effort that THA put out we wouldn't be having this discussion. Everyone would feel that they were heard, had a chance to vote and what happens is the will of the falconers. I wouldn't care a dime about expenses because I would be convinced that it was for the good of falconry. I wouldn't mind paying for better PR.

I am/was a professional IT person so I don't belive that membership should be that hard, I'd still be resistive to paying for the membership management.

[Richard F, Hoyer]

As usual, errors of various types and magnitude creep into my posts. The only one I wish to correct is as follows: The second sentence in the 8th paragraph should read, 'As of Nov., 1998, NAFA represented approximately 75% of licensed U.S. falconers (2933 divided by 3900)'
-------------------------------------------------------------

Meridith M, up until the present time, I have always suggested to my apprentices that they join both the state falconry organization and NAFA. At the present time, I will no longer be advocating joining NAFA. Once a change occurs toward a more responsive and responsible leadership, I could change my current stance.

I believe that only NAFA members that belong to forums such as this one have a real chance of viewing different perspectives. Unfortunately, the majority of NAFA member only hear the sanitized information put out by the NAFA president. Without being exposed to a variety viewpoints, individuals have no satisfactory way of making comparisons and arriving and an informed positions. So I completely agree with your last sentence.

Since the fall of 2008, I have felt that this forum would be an excellent venue for the membership of NAFA (all falconers) in order to review and discuss issues. The amateur herping community have a special section in a widely popular forum (www.fieldherpersforum) that allows for such discussion and exchange of views.

If I understand you correctly, has the administration of this forum offered NAFA such an opportunity?

Richard F. Hoyer

[Saluqi]

Wow! I just got home from a short vacation and when I checked NAFEX I found this thread. Thank you Richard for taking the time and energy to put this together. Thank you to everyone who responded, your ideas and comments were all dead on. Tomorrow when I'm not so road weary I'll re-read it, and hopefully have something useful to add.

[areal]

If I understand you correctly, has the administration of this forum offered NAFA such an opportunity?

Sadly, you are 100% correct, and they turned down the offer.

I am not a member of NAFA, never will be, I dont even live in the right country.

Thing is I've seen a few threads on this topic and just as above, sadly I have to speculate and say they will never provide such a facility.

To add a VB forum to the existing NAFA site would cost around $150 and take no more than 30 minutes work or an open Source Forum would take me around 45 minutes to setup and would cost the "club" absolutely nothing!!.
So in less than an hour they could have their own, members only forum but that is never going to happen because current board, insist before they can add a forum to the NAFA site the entire site needs to be re-developed from scratch. Cow dung!!

Sorry but I simply dont get why they feel the need to "replace" everything that existed before they took charge, unless its simply an excuse for not achieving anything.

The current board/membership should be building and adding on to the foundations laid by those who put their heart and soul into it before they came along. Instead there seems to be a pervasive need to replace the old with whatever their current opinion is on what's best.

Sadly NAFA's problem is not unique, I've seen these same happen in small local club with a few handfuls of members.

I dont claim to know the answer and for my part I couldnt even be bothered to turn up to hand in my resignation. Once I realized how the club was being run I sent a short e-mail to the chairmain and never returned.

[everetkhorton]

Richard:
Just wanted to clean up an item in your post, Darryl Perkins is not longer the NAFA membership Sec. He has not been for over a year or so. But that does not hinder the intent of your post.

[everetkhorton]

I feel that there should be more direct, tangible 'benefits' to a NAFA member rather than just publications. Membership in other organizations, such as the NRA has benefits, such an insurance option. I would like to see a liability insurance for falconers offered. Or even an accidental death insurance offered. Other groups offer such benefits. Maybe we can team up with a pre-paid legal service for falconry and bird of prey related legal issues would be another. Oh yes, I've mentioned this to NAFA officials before. So, it is not a new thing. I also agree, a forum for NAFA members only. Why is NAFA soo slow to get it going with a newer and more streamlined website? I remember that there was great resistance (by certain members of the board) to even having a NAFA website when everyone else had one going in the late 90's. They need to get with the times. News and issues move very, very fast nowdays. I will still remain a NAFA member, have been one since 1977.

Kitty:
There is someone on this forum that is on the web site committee, maybe they can charm in on the question on the web site. As far a having council for legal issues, you must know what a lawyer cost per/hour. Some people think $35.00 a year is to much. Our State club only represent about 45% of regular members. The membership has very little to say on what goes on with the club. We only vote on officer and have a meeting once a year. I guess what bother me is that all falconer get the same benefit as a member in regards to wild take, and the rules and regulation that govern falconry and they did nothing to help and they feel the cost of the dues is to much. But they still fly there bird every year.
JMO.

[everetkhorton]

Actually, the subsidizing of travel expenses isn't that big of a deal to me. I've served on several national, state, and regional boards over the years. Getting reimbursed for expenses is quite normal if you serve on a voluntary board. I wouldn't have served on a few of these boards if, while traveling around the country, I had to buy my own airline tickets or pay for my hotel accommodations.

Serving on a board for a large organization takes quite a bit of commitment and time. People should get reimbursed for their expenses. It's the least an organization can do for a person willing to put in the time and energy. It also levels the playing field by allowing everyone to participate and just not the independently wealthy from holding key board positions.

If NAFA grew to the size of an organization where it actually did represent the vast majority of licensed falconers in the U.S,, I would even be in favor of paying people to hold certain key positions, such as the membership secretary. No one, in the history of NAFA, has ever held that position as efficiently and as thoroughly as Alan Beske did. It was practically a full time position for Alan. Yet he did it completely on a voluntary basis. Bridget did an outstanding job also. A national organization with a vision for expanding its horizons simply can't depend solely on volunteer positions. Not really. Not today.

Now, all this has to be approached using common sense and there has to be a system of checks and balances to assure a certain standard of excellence and to prevent abuse. That's where a strong board comes in. Elected by the membership. The president should not, under any circumstances dictate to the board. A regional director is responsible to his/her constituency. Who's watching the president?

[Ken S.]

Kitty:
There is someone on this forum that is on the web site committee, maybe they can charm in on the question on the web site.

I'm not in a position to give too many details here (I'm not a NAFA spokesperson by a long shot) but I also strongly believe that NAFA needs a better web site with some of the basic functionality we've all come to expect in our organization. I have been saying it for years, and complained openly to other Falconers about it, etc. But finally I realized that I had no business complaining about it unless I was willing to do something about it myself. I'm an Internet professional (web programmer and project manager) so I decided to put my money where my mouth is. A month or so ago I started making phone calls and sending emails to get involved. Several NAFA officers called me back and asked me to get involved. I learned that they have been trying hard to make improvements for a really long time but progress has been slow. Way way too slow in my opinion... there have been some barriers to getting things done but I think we're past that now. As others pointed out, installing a forum is easy, and there's some other nice functionality we should be going for. I'd also like to see members be able to check their own membership status, etc. I have found that the technology is the easy part... it's dealing with all the "other stuff" that takes more time and energy than most people can stand. I'm putting my money and time into making this work, along with some great Falconers like Greg M., Eric E., etc.

The web site committee has been working on many improvements that are launching this summer. One of which includes a NAFA forum, which is already installed and being tested. There are still some details being discussed on the permissions and guidelines, etc. I'll keep everyone posted on the progress but I expect this will be opened up for registering very soon.

Here's another thing I've learned. We are NAFA. Period. There is no big office building somewhere with a bunch of 'old guys' sitting around a table planning out the future of Falconry. There is no board room full of high priced Falconry lawyers. There is no call center with NAFA representatives manning the phones 24/7. There are only volunteers spread out across the country, most of which have full-time jobs, families and other commitments. For me, NAFA is really about the community of members and what we can build together. I hope when the new forum launches you'll all join the community and help guide the future of the organization.

[goshawks00]

I hope when the new forum launches you'll all join the community and help guide the future of the organization.[/quote]

Ken thanks for stepping up to the plate.... the issue at least to this point as far as NAFA is concerned, isn't about "helping guide NAFA" , but rather NAFA allowing it's members to guide them....
I will go as far as predicting there will be a heavy handed restiction clause for the forum section... there will be no latitude for constructive criticism, or disagreement to what the "board" does/doesn't do. It could be a very useful and timely tool for us all, and really be an opportunity to steer NAFA back to being an org that is /for/ and by it's members.
I also hope that some how there will be online voting for elections, and the possibility that we can actually listen to board discussions about issues before them. Anyone else have a wish-list of how to get NAFA to be transparent, and attentive to the desires of the majority of it's members?
Barry

[Ken S.]

I also hope that some how there will be online voting for elections, and the possibility that we can actually listen to board discussions about issues before them.
Barry

Sounds good to me Barry... and thanks for the support. I hope everyone will share their ideas... that's the only way it can get better.

Online voting sounds like a great idea... I like that it would be faster/easier and maybe would increase the voter turn-out. Hopefully that would also end the issue of people not receiving ballots too. The one complaint I'm sure we'll get and one I'm not sure how to address, would be for members that don't have Internet access. Obviously they can go to any public library (or possibly a friend's house)... but I'm sure some will complain that NAFA membership shouldn't require Internet access. Any thoughts on this? One related point that I thought of is that our future 3186-A's will be filled out online... so I guess everyone will be online at some point anyway.

[Eragon]

Hey Ken,
It's awesome that you care enough to get involved and actually make a change. Do you know if the Board plans to post things like meetings, discussions, and such so the membership will have a chance to get involved? It doesn't seems like there would be much of a point if the membership can't see what the board does.

[jfseaman]

Subsidizing? Over the years, I spent $12K - $14K out of my own pocket working on the eagle issue. I know it was at least $12 grand. NAFA knew I spent that much money. Would I do it again? I'm not sure. I doubt it. Not for this administration. NAFA is just down right hostile to anyone with an opinion.

I just don't know what to say anymore. I think the NAFA leadership is counting on the silent majority membership. Falconers are lazy. As long as there isn't some sort of political, or legal cataclysmic issue directly affecting them, you won't hear from them. I'm just learning to accept it. It's just that I'm such a slow learner.

I don't think it's fair to the members to subsidize directors trips to NAFA field meet, they would go anyway and if they wouldn't I'd question their commitment to the organization.

I don't think it fair for the members to subsidize IAF delegate trips to South Africa. While it has some importance to falconry worldwide it is not direct to the NAFA membership.

I DO think it's fair to subsidize trips to meet with USFWS and state FG departments regarding any falconry, raptor propogation, education, rehabilitation, exhibition or conservation issue.

I love Dick Morrison but I don't want to pay for his trip to NAFA. He is the only NAFA board member I've ever spoken to. I went along as a visitor hawking with him and his apprentice in 2005. Daryl was there that morning as well. My own director, not a clue who he is. I think I'll fix that with an e-mail or phone call.

[goshawks00]

Ken we are all becoming more and more a paperless society. It may be as easy as offering an opportunity to vote one way, online or request a physical ballot It would also be easy to publish names of those voting as a kind of checks and balances ( btw not how they voted but just the fact that they did) that way paper balloters will know their ballots were received.

Speaking of going paperless there may be a great interest in getting HCs on line also which could save alot of monies for us all to spend on other issues-( but I still want my Journal<G>)
.02
Barry

[jfseaman]

I hope when the new forum launches you'll all join the community and help guide the future of the organization.

Ken thanks for stepping up to the plate.... the issue at least to this point as far as NAFA is concerned, isn't about "helping guide NAFA" , but rather NAFA allowing it's members to guide them....
I will go as far as predicting there will be a heavy handed restiction clause for the forum section... there will be no latitude for constructive criticism, or disagreement to what the "board" does/doesn't do. It could be a very useful and timely tool for us all, and really be an opportunity to steer NAFA back to being an org that is /for/ and by it's members.
I also hope that some how there will be online voting for elections, and the possibility that we can actually listen to board discussions about issues before them. Anyone else have a wish-list of how to get NAFA to be transparent, and attentive to the desires of the majority of it's members?
Barry[/quote]
All the features needed to manage an accurate membership database and a forum for the members is available in vBulletin. Member would be able to vote, manage their own address, phone, e-mail details. There would be a unique member ID. Everything.

[goshawks00]

Fred , I agree with some of your comments... though I do think we could pay for our representative at the IAF. The operant word is "OUR" not the person the board decides upon without representation and agreement from it's members...
It the same old NAFA ' good ole boys" club slapping each other on the back , which is actually nothing short of a slap in the face to it's members. That's the crap that needs to change and is the reason what NAFA is becoming more and more a non issue in the falconry community.
.02
Barry

[goshawks00]

Ev wrote:""Our State club only represent about 45% of regular members. The membership has very little to say on what goes on with the club. We only vote on officer and have a meeting once a year.""

Hi Ev hope all is well. Do you see it as just a coincidence that our club is a near exact reflection of NAFA?
B.

[Ken S.]

All the features needed to manage an accurate membership database and a forum for the members is available in vBulletin. Member would be able to vote, manage their own address, phone, e-mail details. There would be a unique member ID. Everything.

I couldn't agree with you more. I bought and paid for it already, it's installed on the server, and being tested with the NAFA web site committee. I've been running vBulletin for a long time on saubier.com for our small caliber shooting forum. I started out with a forum program that I wrote myself, and then upgraded to something else, and then we migrated to vBulletin. I can't remember when that was... but it's been good for us.

[Eagle Owl]

Richard:
Just wanted to clean up an item in your post, Darryl Perkins is not longer the NAFA membership Sec. He has not been for over a year or so.

Ev, that is incorrect. Darryl was the membership secretary during the NAFA meet as I was having to e-mail him all the time to ask questions about members. I went and looked at the NAFA e-mails and January 24, 2009, is when it was announced that Pete was the new secretary.

[TexasFalconer]

As a web site developer and programmer myself, I'm absolutely in favor of NAFA building a new web site that doesn't look and perform like it was put together by an amateur twenty years ago. However, please be aware that certain technological aspects of modern web design such as on-line voting are not easily accomplished due to the innate difficulity of securing the voting process from fraud or tampering. There are a number of different ways to approach the issue: however most are extremely complex and expensive in terms of both hardware and programming costs. While it's certainly a possibility to implement on-line voting, I sincerely hope that it's not something NAFA jumps into without considerable scrutiny and professional guidance.

Ken thanks for stepping up to the plate.... the issue at least to this point as far as NAFA is concerned, isn't about "helping guide NAFA" , but rather NAFA allowing it's members to guide them....
I will go as far as predicting there will be a heavy handed restiction clause for the forum section... there will be no latitude for constructive criticism, or disagreement to what the "board" does/doesn't do. It could be a very useful and timely tool for us all, and really be an opportunity to steer NAFA back to being an org that is /for/ and by it's members.
I also hope that some how there will be online voting for elections, and the possibility that we can actually listen to board discussions about issues before them. Anyone else have a wish-list of how to get NAFA to be transparent, and attentive to the desires of the majority of it's members?
Barry

All the features needed to manage an accurate membership database and a forum for the members is available in vBulletin. Member would be able to vote, manage their own address, phone, e-mail details. There would be a unique member ID. Everything.[/quote]

[goshawks00]

Thanks Greg for your input, it's good to know these things. If I can ask.. what do you mean expensive? If you figure how much postage costs to mail out ballots, along with paper, printing, and other misc stuff and figure that out for use over a number of years then would it be more cost effective...? If we could use these type of voting mechanism for many of the issues that our board makes for us ...(possibly because it's more cost effect yea that's it<G>) then it may be a cheap price to pay for generating more involvemenet within our ranks.... or maybe less paid trips by delegates would cover the costs nicely... Hmm... just curious.
Thanks again Greg,
Barry

[Ken S.]

I'm absolutely in favor of NAFA building a new web site that doesn't look and perform like it was put together by an amateur twenty years ago.

I strongly agree. And for the record... I have nothing to do with the design currently, and I'm not sure at this time if my input on the future design will be considered.

However, please be aware that certain technological aspects of modern web design such as on-line voting are not easily accomplished due to the innate difficulity of securing the voting process from fraud or tampering. There are a number of different ways to approach the issue: however most are extremely complex and expensive in terms of both hardware and programming costs.

I respectfully disagree. Care to share some specifics on why you think it would need to be extremely complex and expensive?

While it's certainly a possibility to implement on-line voting, I sincerely hope that it's not something NAFA jumps into without considerable scrutiny and professional guidance.

I agree... but so far I have yet to see NAFA jump into anything quickly and without considerable scrutiny, especially when it comes to web technologies. In fact, I might argue that we seem to be stuck in the quicksand created by over analyzing every decision and it's potential for problems however real or imagined. As for professional guidance, I'm hoping that we have more web professionals in the membership like you and myself that can look at these issues together. Wanna work with me some more on this?