Decline in NAFA membership

[Mitchellbrad]

, I am curious as to how many of those old time falconers are actually flying birds and are actually out in the field. or have they become lathargic and apathetic and as time goes by it is just not that important to them to be in the crooks of things. As you get older some times it is just easy to sit back and watch . not all the pushin and shovin and goin ons

I think you blew it David. Good hawking

Brad

[wyodjm]

I think you blew it David. Good hawking

Brad

I don't think David blew it. From the things I've read of his, I'm sure he's a pretty good guy. I was just rying to point him in the right direction.

But then ........ the $64 question. Is my compass on?

Dan

[sharptail]

looks like true north to me!

[Mitchellbrad]

I don't think David blew it. From the things I've read of his, I'm sure he's a pretty good guy. I was just rying to point him in the right direction.

But then ........ the $64 question. Is my compass on?

Dan

To be honest Dan I think just about everyone's compass is on. The problem is, is it pointing at true N or magnetic N<G> I think David is a decent fellow from what I've read but when anyone makes comments about the Geritol generation my hackles go straight up. He's not the first either. Someone recently asked me if I was still hawking. That didn't sit right at all. I've got friends in their 80's who are still at it.

Heck, I'm rejoining AFC. Nafa is out but AFC seems to be the group I"d fit in with much better.

Brad

[jhausman]

To be honest Dan I think just about everyone's compass is on. The problem is, is it pointing at true N or magnetic N<G> I think David is a decent fellow from what I've read but when anyone makes comments about the Geritol generation my hackles go straight up. He's not the first either. Someone recently asked me if I was still hawking. That didn't sit right at all. I've got friends in their 80's who are still at it.

Heck, I'm rejoining AFC. Nafa is out but AFC seems to be the group I"d fit in with much better.

Brad

Brad,

We'd be honored to have you!

Jason

[wyodjm]

Brad,

We'd be honored to have you!

Jason

Oh please, Jason....................... that's not what he needs to hear.

Hey Brad, don't forget to put me down as a character reference for membership!

Dan

[Roper]

Dan
there you have it .. I am not trying to get personal here I am just trying to get to the absolute point here.. where you were comming from ..
And now I see where your comming from..
I am not on anyones ass on how old they are and if they are hawking.
I was simply trying to make a point not a judgement on older falconers.
It has been my experience ( not that I am old and wise) take for instance
when I was 20 and when grouse hunting .. I didnt think i was hunting unless I filled my bag with the max amount of birds.. as I got older i began to stop kicking my dog and started to appreciate good dog work and the day .. If i got 10 birds or 2 it didnt make as much difference to me .
I just enjoyed the day of being out in the field. To appreciate the whole experience..
case in point i went down and picked up a friends hawk down south because i was close by where my friend had put his bird up in a breeding project . the bird didnt pair up with another bird.. When I went to this guys place, he had birds in their chambers about 6-10 birds and he was off doing something else.. I spoke with his wife, she helped me get the bird out of the chambers. the end result after a real nice conversation, was that he really wasnt flying much any more he had moved on to other things..
I m not making a judgement here on anybody I am just saying things change and people change. in turn memberships ebb and flow

[jhausman]

Oh please, Jason....................... that's not what he needs to hear.

Hey Brad, don't forget to put me down as a character reference for membership!

Dan

LMAO! Maybe your right. Let me rephrase! We would "really really like" to have you aboard! (?) Is that better Dan!?

I wouldn't trust ANY of you guys/gals as a character reference!

J.

[jhausman]

A club needs to be run by it's membership. It needs to have issues voted on by it's membership. It needs to be open to it's membership about what it is doing. It needs to make damn sure that it is controlled by it's membership and not outsiders (in this case voting non-falconers). Officers need to be elected by the membership. It needs to be about LESS regulation. It needs to spend it's monies on making sure that the rights of it's membership is being protected and not fluffy newsletters.

I am not saying that NAFA is or isn't any of these things.

I am just saying, that is what I am looking for in both a National and State club.

We are from all walks of life, all the reaches of the earth and we all share a common bond. We hunt with birds of prey and we want to continue to do so with as little regulation as possible. I would like to see wild take in Europe. I'd like to see open (fully open - like RT's) peregrine take in the US. I would like to see ALL STATES open to non-residents (they are not your birds - they belong to the world and at the very least the citizens of this country!). I would like to see the unreasonable searches, ridiculous paperwork and permitting to go away! I want open seasons for falconers. We have no impact! Until we do we should have open season. Etc Etc Etc.

Sorry for he rant! It's what happens when I hold my tongue for so long on a thread like this one. Fire away.

Love you all,

Jason

[wyodjm]

Dan
there you have it .. I am not trying to get personal here I am just trying to get to the absolute point here.. where you were comming from ..
And now I see where your comming from..
I am not on anyones ass on how old they are and if they are hawking.
I was simply trying to make a point not a judgement on older falconers.
It has been my experience ( not that I am old and wise) take for instance
when I was 20 and when grouse hunting .. I didnt think i was hunting unless I filled my bag with the max amount of birds.. as I got older i began to stop kicking my dog and started to appreciate good dog work and the day .. If i got 10 birds or 2 it didnt make as much difference to me .
I just enjoyed the day of being out in the field. To appreciate the whole experience..
case in point i went down and picked up a friends hawk down south because i was close by where my friend had put his bird up in a breeding project . the bird didnt pair up with another bird.. When I went to this guys place, he had birds in their chambers about 6-10 birds and he was off doing something else.. I spoke with his wife, she helped me get the bird out of the chambers. the end result after a real nice conversation, was that he really wasnt flying much any more he had moved on to other things..
I m not making a judgement here on anybody I am just saying things change and people change. in turn memberships ebb and flow

Hi David:

That's cool. No worries. I only fly passage goshawks and eagles now. I don't intermew goshawks anymore. I'm too lazy. Besides, passage birds don't molt worth a darn the first year and I like to fly fish in the summer. I do, however, intermew eagles. They're too much of an investment in time to just turn loose and get another one, although I have turned a few eagles loose. I'm smarter now. I'm looking forward to hawking my eagle around varoius locations in the west to get jack slips.

If I can't do the eagle justice this season, I'll probably turn him loose. I'll just have to go back and trap another passage gos I guess. I'll have to settle for ducks and bunnies with the gos.

Stay in the fight. The name of the game is being in the game, not watching from the sidelines. Still, at the end of the day, NAFA can go pound sand!

Do your research and get back with me if you have any questions.

ATB,

Dan

[Mitchellbrad]

Oh please, Jason....................... that's not what he needs to hear.

Hey Brad, don't forget to put me down as a character reference for membership!

Dan

I'm just sending them some money. If they say I smell too bad or something along those lines I'll probably agree with them and leave it at that.

Brad

[Roper]

Dan & Jason
no worries here I like it when people are direct and respectful i like the candid approach ,, plane and simple..

[wyodjm]

I had a feeling this was going to happen. It's the risk you pay for speaking out. No matter.

Not lethargic or apathetic. Not whining either. Just burned out. However, I certainly wasn't getting rude either, to you personally or to any other individual. So ease up.

Perhaps you should go back and read the older posts on this and the Beebe and Webster thread. Much of the information you're asking for is in those old posts. Start gathering your own, solid information like many of us have.

Take a year or two out of your life and do an exhaustive, historical, in-depth research study on the inner workings of NAFA the last ten years. Go interview past directors, past officers, former and current members. Go read every NAFA publication that has ever been published or distributed the last ten years. Go read all of the NAFA Board agendas that have been brought forward the last ten years. Just the last ten years. That's all. You really don't have to go back any further that that. It will give you some idea of what I was referring to. Draw your own conclusions.

Go read, compare, and contrast the proposed federal falconry regulations, NAFA's comments on those proposed falconry regulations, and then the final, published ruling on those regulations. See how much influence NAFA really had on the new federal falconry regulations. Seriously, go and do it. Find out for yourself.

After you have conducted your own, in-depth research project, please feel free and contact me. If, after you have conducted your exhaustive search and you have any questions, I'll help you fill in the blanks. If I honestly can't answer your questions, I'll personally point you in the direction of at least 50 people who probably could answer your questions.

I'm not looking for trouble. And I don't even care if I'm right. I was basing my comments on simple observations. But knock yourself out pard, go push NAFA all you want. It's of no consequence to me. This thread's all yours.

I've never heard of you. How much dues have you paid?

Dan McCarron

Dan & Jason
no worries here I like it when people are direct and respectful i like the candid approach ,, plane and simple..

I'm not worried. But before another lightning strike hits this thread again, take my suggestion to heart. Do your homework. Do the research. You just might find the answers you were looking for. I took the liberty of pasting my earlier post again.

People need good, solid information in which to make a decision, whatever it is. But no one spoon fed me.

You do the background research on NAFA. Feel free to get back to me.

ATB,

Dan McCarron

[outhawkn]

The biggest difference is when we are on trips we don't sleep on the ground anymore when it's below 0F. We like warm beds and nice, long showers after a good day of hawking.

Brad

.......

[sharptail]

Dan
there you have it .. I am not trying to get personal here I am just trying to get to the absolute point here.. where you were comming from ..
And now I see where your comming from..
I am not on anyones ass on how old they are and if they are hawking.
I was simply trying to make a point not a judgement on older falconers.
It has been my experience ( not that I am old and wise) take for instance
when I was 20 and when grouse hunting .. I didnt think i was hunting unless I filled my bag with the max amount of birds.. as I got older i began to stop kicking my dog and started to appreciate good dog work and the day .. If i got 10 birds or 2 it didnt make as much difference to me .
I just enjoyed the day of being out in the field. To appreciate the whole experience..
case in point i went down and picked up a friends hawk down south because i was close by where my friend had put his bird up in a breeding project . the bird didnt pair up with another bird.. When I went to this guys place, he had birds in their chambers about 6-10 birds and he was off doing something else.. I spoke with his wife, she helped me get the bird out of the chambers. the end result after a real nice conversation, was that he really wasnt flying much any more he had moved on to other things..
I m not making a judgement here on anybody I am just saying things change and people change. in turn memberships ebb and flow

David,
I am fed up with your condesending garbage! You make judgements about me and my falconry based on flakey connections of yours. I have and continue to practice more world class falconry than 99% of the living falconers world wide. When it comes to world class falconry, I don't think you would recognize it if a falling grouse hit you in the head.
Your posts here are full of contradictions, and ramblings and don't really say much of anything. You claim that you want know what the problem is when it is posted all around your posts, and then challange many that you disagree with, as not being real, hard core falconers...get a life!

[Roper]

Sorry dude didn't realise the thread was all about you .. I guess they should have called it "all about Jeff in Wyoming"

Here i thought we were having a nice interaction of views ... different views... none the less .. just different approaches.
I dont beleive I have had an attitude

Once I got to the real root of what people were trying to say .. I in turn took some of those concerns and made a few phone calls to my flakey connections , which I wont mind telling you, were some of the very people that they complaints are about and asked them directly what and why some people are complaining about their actions. And would greatly appreciate their response to these situations.

Not once did I hear them respond that they were better falconers and practiced better falconers than 99% of the falconers ... blah blah blah.
Sound familiar??

Case and Point: got one of those email from Dan C the other day .. i responded back to him with when some vented with their concerns that the board was unresponsive I then asked and suggested that since the web sight seems to be slow in comming .
how about putting up a questions with the authors and answere section in the hawk chawk..
So you see its not just lip service, I am actually trying to find a solution here. Attitude? , check the mirror.

[jhausman]

I'm just sending them some money. If they say I smell too bad or something along those lines I'll probably agree with them and leave it at that.

Brad

I thought all falconers smelled a little funny! You should be in the clear!

[Richard F, Hoyer]

In a series of posts, I am going to present my take on a number of topics that have surfaced during this thead.

#1) On June 22nd, Roper (David) mentioned, "Correct me if I am wrong but is not falconry at some of the best levels it has ever been .."

I have seen similar statements made over the years as if such were fact.

I can agree with the statement where it pertains to states in which falconry was not originally legal. But that isn't the case for other states such as here in Oregon. So those that have harbored the belief that falconry was never better than the present time in the U.S., ask yourself the following: Would you rather be participating in falconry with, or without all of the current federal / state regulations and red tape?

I have been involved in falconry since the late 1940's so I know what it is like not having to cope with all of the governmental BS that presently exists. From my perspective, falconry was better during the 40's, 50's, and 60's with not having to deal with all of the bureaucratic nonsense.

Richard F. Hoyer

[Richard F, Hoyer]

#2) Roper, in your July 1st post, you indicate you have "done a little research--." You mention that if one looks back say 20 years, ebbs and flows occurred in NAFA membership. If you found some membership numbers that support your statement, that would be informative. However, in the absence of such information, your statement is not consistent with the information provided in the August, 2008 Hawk Chalk article by Darryl Perkins. So I am left without knowing which version is correct.

As noted in Darryl's article, as of about 10 years ago (Nov. 1998), NAFA membership stood at 2933. In referring to that 2933 figure, the article then mentions and quote, "This is the first decline in membership since 1981." So one can infer that during the 16 or 17 years from 1981 to late 1997, NAFA membership showed a steady increase Consequently, 20 years ago, it would appear there was no ebb and flow in membership. Here again, if you have some data that demonstrates otherwise, please set the record straight.

On the other hand, your statement would be correct if instead of the looking back 20 years as you mention, we just look back at the past 10 years. The graph provided by Darryl Perkins shows that from 2000, a modest increase in membership occurred in 2002. Membership then again declined in 2003 and 2004 but then increased again in 2005. Darryl's graph then shows that from 2005, declines have taken place in 2006, 2007 and 2008. And from the information I recently received from the NAFA Membership Secretary, that decline will likely continue through this year.

I'm not willing to take the time to do a more thorough effort at looking at this issue but should you do more than just a 'little research', I think many of us would be interested in your findings.

Richard F. Hoyer

[Tom Smith]

I have been involved in falconry since the late 1940's so I know what it is like not having to cope with all of the governmental BS that presently exists. From my perspective, falconry was better during the 40's, 50's, and 60's with not having to deal with all of the bureaucratic nonsense.

Richard F. Hoyer[/QUOTE]

I have to agree Richard. The late 50's through the mid 70's when everything began to slow down and falconry took on a statutory nature with the BS as you say, was like heaven for me. If one has never experienced freedom then one probably wouldn't miss it.

Tom Smith

[Roper]

Richard
very sound argument from your point I cannot argue the 1940-60 Born in 1956 .. In the 70's I sat on horse back all day and checked cattle and fence in the northwest corner of wyoming and Montana. I had an interest in falconry back when you could buy a hawk out of the back pages of the "Boys Life" magazine,
I personally view that rules and regs serve a purpose, because their will always be people that push the envelope, and take more and do more than they should. For those of you that are able to govern yourself and tend to task I commend you .. and then there are those that do not ..
Now forth comming that is about to change with the new regs and maybe things will be more like the 40-60's


I am not putting blame on anyone here I am simply stating that maybe it is just the way people are and not all of the fault is the nafa board.

I am not saying that the Nafa board hasn't had a contribution in some of this stuff.. I just dont agree that the entire fault lies in the hands of the board of directors.
During the course of the Perkins Presidency I have had little to do with that. I'm not saying the errogance by the board or any of its reps didn't have an effect on people, it did.. I have a saying" Anyone that is more errogant than me is a jerk(insert what ever adjective you would like") I just simply dismiss those people and move on.

This blaime thing gets old to me .. I guess in the course of this conversation perhaps a solution is possible. In my efforts of evoking and questioning and some hostility from the special few I would like to ask
"what is the solution",, How do We get more members in this club.

[Migisi]

How do We get more members in this club.

Just some thoughts on leadership in general:

"Humans are ambitious and rational and proud. And we don't fall in line with people who don't respect us and who we don't believe have our best interests at heart. We are willing to follow leaders, but only to the extent that we believe they call on our best, not our worst." - Rachel Maddow

"You do not lead by hitting people over the head - that's assault, not leadership." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

"What you always do before you make a decision is consult. The best public policy is made when you are listening to people who are going to be impacted. Then, once policy is determined, you call on them to help you sell it." - Elizabeth Dole

[wyodjm]

This blaime thing gets old to me .. I guess in the course of this conversation perhaps a solution is possible. In my efforts of evoking and questioning and some hostility from the special few I would like to ask
"what is the solution",, How do We get more members in this club.

Easy. Join the AFC.

Let that select group of people running NAFA, who are in love with themselves, have their own sandbox.

One of the "solutions" in my opinion is to not let Ralph Rogers become the Vice President of the America's for the International Association of Falconry (IAF). Rogers was NAFA's choice candidate.

The international falconry community has a strong following and history of hunting with golden eagles, especially in Europe and Asia. Mr. Rogers has had absolutely no involvement in supporting and promoting the use of golden eagles for falconry purposes in North America. Mr. Rogers, historically has also been adamently opposed to a nonresident take of raptors for falconry purposes in his home state in Montana.

If the same old players, are allowed to play the same old games in their positions of power and authority, then you're going to get the same old results. Then whose fault is it? Falconers either don't care or they're dumber than a box of rocks.

I would think you would not want Ralph Rogers representing you and I on the International falconry scene. Are you kidding me? Heavens no. My opinions regarding Mr. Rogers come from experience in working on the national eagle scene that goes back 20+ years.

But sit back and watch what will happen. Rogers is banking on no one doing anything to oppose his nomination and he'll just slide into that international position like butter on warm toast.

Richard.....you asked. There's one suggestion.

Dan McCarron

[outhawkn]

Easy. Join the AFC.

Let that select group of people running NAFA, who are in love with themselves, have their own sandbox.

One of the "solutions" in my opinion is to not let Ralph Rogers become the Vice President of the America's for the International Association of Falconry (IAF). Rogers was NAFA's choice candidate.

The international falconry community has a strong following and history of hunting with golden eagles, especially in Europe and Asia. Mr. Rogers has had absolutely no involvement in supporting and promoting the use of golden eagles for falconry purposes in North America. Mr. Rogers, historically has also been adamently opposed to a nonresident take of raptors for falconry purposes in his home state in Montana.

If the same old players, are allowed to play the same old games in their positions of power and authority, then you're going to get the same old results. Then whose fault is it? Falconers either don't care or they're dumber than a box of rocks.

I would think you would not want Ralph Rogers representing you and I on the International falconry scene. Are you kidding me? Heavens no. My opinions regarding Mr. Rogers come from experience in working on the national eagle scene that goes back 20+ years.

But sit back and watch what will happen. Rogers is banking on no one doing anything to oppose his nomination and he'll just slide into that international position like butter on warm toast.

Richard.....you asked. There's one suggestion.

Dan McCarron

Exactly..................

[Roper]

I guess that is a way of doing it, getting your point across but leaving nafa isnt that a contradiction of trying to improve the numbers of membership.. I mean that is one less nafa member, but
maybe it gets your point across and that is what is necessary but isnt it a divide and conquor thing a lesser united front.

[goshawks00]

Dave maybe you make your own point ..."isn't a divide and conquer thing a less united front". Yes it is, and that in a nutshell is why NAFA is getting smaller and smaller, less and less effective.. They do not listen to it's members , drag their feet on what the membership wants, and follow the same old worn out direction as to how they handle issues. The best way to unite NAFA is to jointly ,in mass migration, exit them... Maybe, MAYBE, then they will get it, that the membership, er...., make that ex-membership has had enough and has gone to become a more united front, under a different name. A group that will/does listen to it's members and fights for their common good not just those that are like minded to their philosphies.
Barry

[wyodjm]

I guess that is a way of doing it, getting your point across but leaving nafa isnt that a contradiction of trying to improve the numbers of membership.. I mean that is one less nafa member, but
maybe it gets your point across and that is what is necessary but isnt it a divide and conquor thing a lesser united front.

Hi David. Forgive me, I called you Richard earlier.

OK, I'll try and say this as carefully and as clearly as I can. I don't give a rat's petunia about NAFA anymore. They've screwed so many people, including me, over the last ten years or so that I just don't care. NAFA can go pound sand.

Join the AFC.

If, in the future, NAFA changes its current administration and its old tactics, I may join again. I was a dues paying, major contributing member of NAFA for over 30 years. I chose to dump it. It's my choice, my time, and my money. That's what's nice about America. I say this without fear, because I have the experience to back my opinions up.

Perhaps more people in my position should make a similar statement. If not, I don't care. I'll stand alone. I basically took on the USFWS by myself for almost 10 years, in a blood and guts bar room fight over eagles when almost everyone else in NAFA who could have helped me was afraid of their shadow. Frank Bond helped me and I will always acknowledge Frank in public. Frank and I are old friends. We now have golden eagles available and we can take golden eagles out of the wild.

Contradiction? I've earned my opinion and right to leave NAFA. What's your resume look like?

May I please be excused from this now? It appears that I'm spinning my wheels on this thread.

Best,

Dan McCarron

[Roper]

Barry
see that is what I like about you consice and to the point
perhaps you are correct. I can truely see what you are saying..
I just have never had the issues with the board that some of the members are having.. but if I did then I probably would take that tack.

[Roper]

dan you obviously have had experiences with nafa or not I should say that I have not encountered.
I have not ever taken the course you have with the eagles.
My resume" I really dont want to get into what I have done type stuff.
but I worked with Robert Anderson (first person to breed, peregrines in MN) I am not sure if it was the midwest but MN I am sure of.
AI'd the birds and Helped build the chambers on the farm where the birds were bred.
The orginal nest boxes that were built on the cliffs of MN and Wisconsin and the buildings in and around the cities of Minneapolis, other places , our construction company built and provided at not cost.
Patrick Redig and Myself were the ones that repelled off the cliffs and installed these nest boxes. Our company provided the generators , scafolding for hack boxes, climbing gear etc . labor fuel , time effort and etc... for this effort.
Worked with the U of Mn Raptor Center, Harrison (Bud ) Tordoff , Bob Anderson, Andy Weaver and all the others in the midwest Peregrine reintroduction. When the new John Gabbert U of M Raptor Center was built, the MN falconers and myself helped install all the perches etc....
I have been a falconery for over 20 years, and have flown a variety of birds from redtails to Peregrines.
I am sure this is minischule to some others efforts but that is part of my resume. I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match here.
Perhaps I misread your intent here, but there you have it.
If no offense ment , none taken , just statin the facts.
best

[wyodjm]

dan you obviously have had experiences with nafa or not I should say that I have not encountered.
I have not ever taken the course you have with the eagles.
My resume" I really dont want to get into what I have done type stuff.
but I worked with Robert Anderson (first person to breed, peregrines in MN) I am not sure if it was the midwest but MN I am sure of.
AI'd the birds and Helped build the chambers on the farm where the birds were bred.
The orginal nest boxes that were built on the cliffs of MN and Wisconsin and the buildings in and around the cities of Minneapolis, other places , our construction company built and provided at not cost.
Patrick Redig and Myself were the ones that repelled off the cliffs and installed these nest boxes. Our company provided the generators , scafolding for hack boxes, climbing gear etc . labor fuel , time effort and etc... for this effort.
Worked with the U of Mn Raptor Center, Harrison (Bud ) Tordoff , Bob Anderson, Andy Weaver and all the others in the midwest Peregrine reintroduction. When the new John Gabbert U of M Raptor Center was built, the MN falconers and myself helped install all the perches etc....
I have been a falconery for over 20 years, and have flown a variety of birds from redtails to Peregrines.
I am sure this is minischule to some others efforts but that is part of my resume. I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match here.
Perhaps I misread your intent here, but there you have it.
If no offense ment , none taken , just statin the facts.
best

Yes, you misread my intent. But, that's ok.

Join the AFC.

Cheers David,

Dan

[Peregrinus]

As frustrated and disenfranchised as some (former) members may be, I am of the opinion that a good percentage of NAFA's drop in membership can be attributed to the rise of internet forums. Until recently, two of a club's main functions were to distribute information and provide a social network. Both of these functions have been taken over- to a large extent- by the internet. Some clubs are too afraid of liability to allow forums on their websites, which makes groups like NAFEX even more important.

All of this leads me to think that there is one primary function for a falconry club: the preservation of falconers' rights. I would guess that a club must adhere to the idea that falconry is a right in order to be effective in that endeavor.

Bridget

I guess that is a way of doing it, getting your point across but leaving nafa isnt that a contradiction of trying to improve the numbers of membership.. I mean that is one less nafa member, but
maybe it gets your point across and that is what is necessary but isnt it a divide and conquor thing a lesser united front.

[Migisi]

dan you obviously have had experiences with nafa or not I should say that I have not encountered.
I have not ever taken the course you have with the eagles.
My resume" I really dont want to get into what I have done type stuff.
but I worked with....

Very nice resume, David. However, none of the above involved working with or for NAFA.

[sharptail]

Great point Bridget,....'how can you eat your pudding if you don't believe in eating?'.
Seem I have been trying to make a silk purse of a sows ear. At least I had help...not the only fool in the room.

[Dirthawking]

Can we stop the chest pounding, lower the testosterone levels, and get back onto topic? frus

[Tom Smith]

I'm curious, has any of the studies revealed how many falconers have died or at a point in age where they do not practice falconry any more. Seems there were a large number of falconers in NAFA that would be in there late 50's through 70's that are no longer practicing falconry due to age or death. Perhaps some one else mentioned it. I haven't followed the thread faithfully as it has deviated considerably.

I know some really remarkable falconers that haven't practiced for years due to health concerns.

And there are some who have spent so much time patting themselves on the back they have injured their shoulders to the point they can no longer carry a bird on the their fist.

Tom Smith