The Old and the New

[MrBill]

In his most recent Director's Report, Ralph Rogers basically said that in days gone bye NAFA members were interested in what they could do for falconry, while many of todays members are more interested in what NAFA can do for them. Leaving personalities out of it, do you feel that Ralph has a valid point, or not? I am not saying I agree with Ralph, but frankly, in the short time I have been part of this forum, I have read a number of comments along the line, "NAFA does not represent my interests, " or "What do I get for my dues besides a periodicals?" etc.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[goshawks00]

I think there is a bunch of both within NAFA...There is quite a history of NAFA not listening to it's members... There is also quite a few members that think paying dues is enough, like buying insurance in case of some unforeseen calamity..

[MrBill]

Barry,

I agree with you about NAFA's history of not listening to its members, but, that's been discussed ad naseum, so we had probably better let that go for the purposes of this thread. I would like to address your second point--dues equating to insurance.

People join most national "sporting" organizations to associate with people who have similar interests that they might feel passionate about. But, in our case we have a history of defending and protecting our sport, so you are right, Barry--joining NAFA for many is like paying insurance. Frankly, I view NAFA's roll as a national watchdog organization as important. But, again, Ralph was suggesting that members nowadays are more interested in what's in it for them personally, rather than focusing on the big picture (NAFA's roll in helping to ensure the future of falconry).

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[jfseaman]

Barry,

I agree with you about NAFA's history of not listening to its members, but, that's been discussed ad naseum, so we had probably better let that go for the purposes of this thread. I would like to address your second point--dues equating to insurance.

People join most national "sporting" organizations to associate with people who have similar interests that they might feel passionate about. But, in our case we have a history of defending and protecting our sport, so you are right, Barry--joining NAFA for many is like paying insurance. Frankly, I view NAFA's roll as a national watchdog organization as important. But, again, Ralph was suggesting that members nowadays are more interested in what's in it for them personally, rather than focusing on the big picture (NAFA's roll in helping to ensure the future of falconry).

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

Well said Bill.

At the moment, with 43 states needing to ratify new regulations though, NAFA can and is going far beyond being 'insurance'.

[outhawkn]

I do believe that falconers used to feel like "what can I do to help". But its not just NAFA that suffers. The younger generation has a generally lack of concern for others and seem to be only intersted in themselves.......

[MrBill]

Fred,

I'm in the dark in terms of what NAFA is doing to help the states ratify new regulations, but, again the answer to this question would take the conversation beyond the topic of the thread (I think); so, if you could e-mail me at falconer@cox.net and tell me what NAFA is doing, I would appreciate it.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[MrBill]

Bill,

When you say, "younger generation," how young are we talking about? I've found that the vast majority of the NAFA membership has been complacent over the years, regardless of age. As I've said before, up until about 10-15 years ago, most folks were paying their dues in order to receive the HC and Journal. We were all starved for relative information about contemporary falconry, but, that's no longer the case. So falconers who have come on the scene during this period are questioning whether they should be a NAFA member (IMO). Perhaps this is what Ralph is talking about.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[outhawkn]

Bill,

When you say, "younger generation," how young are we talking about? I've found that the vast majority of the NAFA membership has been complacent over the years, regardless of age. As I've said before, up until about 10-15 years ago, most folks were paying their dues in order to receive the HC and Journal. We were all starved for relative information about contemporary falconry, but, that's no longer the case. So falconers who have come on the scene during this period are questioning whether they should be a NAFA member (IMO). Perhaps this is what Ralph is talking about.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

Hi Blill

After reading your post and giving it some more thought, I think it may be that we ALL are getting complacent/comfortable? With what we have. And I think a lot of it does have to do with new falconers ( without regaurd as to age) come into falconry and think it has ALWAYS been like it is now. They dont realize the struggles/sacrafices that many falconers have endured to get where we are now. Thats why I think its important for sponsors to teach not only falconry but the history that goes along with it.....
I bet if you asked some of the new falconers, say with 5 years or less under their belt. What Operation Falcon was all about they couldnt tell you without looking in to it. JMO

[Dirthawking]

I bet if you asked some of the new falconers, say with 5 years or less under their belt. What Operation Falcon was all about they couldnt tell you without looking in to it. JMO

I bet if you ask around, you will find falconers that have been around for 10 plus years that can't tell you what it was about!

[outhawkn]

I bet if you ask around, you will find falconers that have been around for 10 plus years that can't tell you what it was about!

I wouldnt doubt it.....

[RyanVZ]

The NAFA TAC committee is offering help to states with the new regs. I think that they have to ask for it though.

[sharptail]

In his most recent Director's Report, Ralph Rogers basically said that in days gone bye NAFA members were interested in what they could do for falconry, while many of todays members are more interested in what NAFA can do for them. Leaving personalities out of it, do you feel that Ralph has a valid point, or not? I am not saying I agree with Ralph, but frankly, in the short time I have been part of this forum, I have read a number of comments along the line, "NAFA does not represent my interests, " or "What do I get for my dues besides a periodicals?" etc.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

An old friend(Mark P., from the Seattle area) tried to donate his time to get a decent NAFA website up and going, some 20 years ago, and was shunned by the NAFA board.

Ask not what NAFA can do for you, but what YOU CAN DO FOR NAFA....Oh Please! There must be a new JFK movie out

[MrBill]

Jeff writes:

"An old friend(Mark P., from the Seattle area) tried to donate his time to get a decent NAFA website up and going, some 20 years ago, and was shunned by the NAFA board.

Ask not what NAFA can do for you, but what YOU CAN DO FOR NAFA....Oh Please! There must be a new JFK movie out"

Jeff, first of all I don't think most folks would argue with the fact that NAFA has been behind the power curve when it comes to their presence on the web, but that is not what this discussion is about.

Also, it's also not about what falconers can do for NAFA. Again, Ralph's comment (and what this thread is about) was that NAFA members in days gone bye were interested in what they could do "for falconry" (not NAFA) and now they seem to be more interested in what NAFA can do for them (personally).

I think you may have missed the point a bit.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[FredFogg]

An old friend(Mark P., from the Seattle area) tried to donate his time to get a decent NAFA website up and going, some 20 years ago, and was shunned by the NAFA board.

Ask not what NAFA can do for you, but what YOU CAN DO FOR NAFA....Oh Please! There must be a new JFK movie out

Get over it Jeff, that was 20 years ago! Geeez! Time to let things go!

[frootdog]

Get over it Jeff, that was 20 years ago! Geeez! Time to let things go!

If nothing else this PROVES that NAFA is changing for the better.

[JRedig]

I do believe that falconers used to feel like "what can I do to help". But its not just NAFA that suffers. The younger generation has a generally lack of concern for others and seem to be only intersted in themselves.......

Being a part of that/a younger generation, I tend to agree with your observation. I can't stand that and hate being stereotyped into it by my age. I ask that you have hope for some of us!

I offer an observation in return though, do you really think that's any different from past generations? Typically younger people are more inward because of where they are at in life. It's a product of society much of the time. It's only exacerbated by technology/text/myspace/twitter. That and it's more visible to older generations as they can now be connected on the same level which isn't something that occurred in the past.

Something tells me for for much of eternity, older generations will always think this of younger generations.

[MrBill]

Jeff,

I think you have a real good point--the "older generation" was young at one time, and I can tell you that a healthy number (not all) of younger falconers during the 60's and 70's, in California, during the era of "power to the people" and "screw authority," did more harm than good for falconry, at least in that state. Now, of course, these folks (those that are still around) have grown up, raised families, retired (those that can) and have a whole different outlook on falconry . . . . age has a way of doing this :-)

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[outhawkn]

Being a part of that/a younger generation, I tend to agree with your observation. I can't stand that and hate being stereotyped into it by my age. I ask that you have hope for some of us!

I offer an observation in return though, do you really think that's any different from past generations? Typically younger people are more inward because of where they are at in life. It's a product of society much of the time. It's only exacerbated by technology/text/myspace/twitter. That and it's more visible to older generations as they can now be connected on the same level which isn't something that occurred in the past.

Something tells me for for much of eternity, older generations will always think this of younger generations.

Hi Jeff

I do have hope.....so much hope in fact that if you were to read a good portion of my past posts on NAFA, I was one of those bashers and a non-member. AND then a miracle occurd, and I re-joined..

And i agree with your observation that the older generation generally feels that the younger generation is taking us to hell in a hand basket.

All that being said....I stopped complaining and am lending a hand as best I can....we'll see.......

[JRedig]

I actually had noticed that Bill, glad to see it.

[outhawkn]

I actually had noticed that Bill, glad to see it.

Lets NOT pat me on the back yet....I could relapse........

[Ron Clarke]

Being a part of that/a younger generation, I tend to agree with your observation. I can't stand that and hate being stereotyped into it by my age. I ask that you have hope for some of us!

I offer an observation in return though, do you really think that's any different from past generations? Typically younger people are more inward because of where they are at in life. It's a product of society much of the time. It's only exacerbated by technology/text/myspace/twitter. That and it's more visible to older generations as they can now be connected on the same level which isn't something that occurred in the past.

Something tells me for for much of eternity, older generations will always think this of younger generations.

You are right on the mark, Jeff. We graybeards have been fretting about the upcoming generations for millennia.

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Plato wrote that.

[Flatwater Falconer]

Focusing on the issues of today - (in no particular order)

• anti-hunting groups efforts to eradicate sports
• passage peregrine take adjustments
• problems individual falconers have in dealing with local government
• improving habitat for prey species - environmental issues
• reducing/simplifying existing laws
• states' transition to in-house falconry programs

Ought to keep us busy wouldn't you think? Using ancient history of our Association to not join, especially if you weren't even a falconer when the alleged events occured, is to me, a cop-out.

Try for one day to keep focused on what is actually going on TODAY and let the past be the past. It gets tiresome reading the comments bashing this Association. So one-sided as well because for every problem remembered there are probably 50 good things that somehow are forgotten and not mentioned.

So if my partial list above has items which interest you as a falconer, then I invite you to join the North American Falconers Association and apply your energy to one or more of these items.

Cheers!

[dirthawker2004]

here is one thing that kind of ticks me off about NAFA. at the time that its time for me to renew my dues is usually a tight $ time for me so when it comes to a time that $ loosens up a bit and I can renew my membership they want to charge me $10.00 extra to be a member. its more money for less of a yr. I dont mind just taking the partial yr but I will me dambed if I am going to pay extra for the partial yr.

[Flatwater Falconer]

here is one thing that kind of ticks me off about NAFA. at the time that its time for me to renew my dues is usually a tight $ time for me so when it comes to a time that $ loosens up a bit and I can renew my membership they want to charge me $10.00 extra to be a member. its more money for less of a yr. I dont mind just taking the partial yr but I will me dambed if I am going to pay extra for the partial yr.

That's an easy fix -
Why not renew a few months early? It's going to count for the next year anyhow so make it easy on yourself and send your dues ahead of time rather than wait.

The late fee is for the extra postage and handling to get your printed matter sent out to you. When they don't go bulk rate from the print shop that means someone has to purchase mailers and higher rate postage and mail the items to you custom. They can't go bulk rate at that point because it's one or two items rather than 1600 items.

[dirthawker2004]

what would they be mailing me. if I join late I am late I dont need the back journals and all I never really read them any way. there are very few good aticals in them any way. I guess the AFC wants my money more they will take it any time I want to give it to them.

[sharptail]

Greetings Jason!
Will we be seeing you at the AFC meet in El Dorado this season? There is no registration fee and we will be meeting at the Best Western.

[FredFogg]

here is one thing that kind of ticks me off about NAFA. at the time that its time for me to renew my dues is usually a tight $ time for me so when it comes to a time that $ loosens up a bit and I can renew my membership they want to charge me $10.00 extra to be a member. its more money for less of a yr. I dont mind just taking the partial yr but I will me dambed if I am going to pay extra for the partial yr.

Jason, money is tight for everyone, but just like anything else in life, you have to plan ahead. If you have dues coming up at a certain time of the year, save for it. Why is NAFA supposed to conform their dues period just to suit you. They can't do it for everyone. They have a certain date that dues are due, pretty simple. Plan ahead!

It amazes me sometimes of the complaints folks have with NAFA, sorry, not just ragging on you Jason. But try volunteering for something in NAFA and see how much work it takes to do things, then you will have a different perspective.

[falcon56]

Amen, Fred. Too many in the ranks, whether NAFA members or not, forget ALL the work NAFA has done over the years to promote and further the sport. We wouldn't be where we are today without the tireless volunteers that spend their own money, sacrifice their personal time away from family and days in the field to keep ahead of all the issues falconry entails, from legal problems, antis, dissention etc. You may not always agree with what is done or how it's being done, but it is being done by someone that gives a damn. I for one am convinced that the falconry I practice today would not be what it is without NAFA. I well remember having legal falconry restricted to the short established hunting seasons shared with the gun hunters, outside those predetermined dates, we were always looking over our shoulders and scrambling. Where do these complainers think the 7 month and longer seasons came from, the access to wild peregrines? NAFA was instrumental on so many fronts that were and still are crucial to the survival of falconry as we see it today. I challenge anyone to say the same for any other group. My money stays with NAFA, whether or not I always agree with how or why things are done.

[Hawkmom]

Don't bash NAFA, they have done a tremendous amount for the preservation of falconry in the US. When the MTBA was passed. NAFA put together the current system of licensing and regulations that kept falconry legal in the US. Otherwise, it would have been outlawed nationwide. We got the take of peregrines back. Something I thought may NEVER happen in my lifetime.

Antis are a real threat. We have to be ever watchful of them. They are sneaking in the administration of the Game Depts. And unfortunately, most antis are FEMALE. Non-hunting females, who have NO CLUE or ignore the science in the studies of the natural cycles of this planet, despite some having a biology background. The hook and bullet guys are our best allies. They understand. Steve Bodio's article in the 1987 American Hunter Magazine explains it best.

[Hawkmom]

Here is the link to the article I just posted in one of my blogs: www.fieldsportsforever.blogspot.com

[sharptail]

Amen, Fred. Too many in the ranks, whether NAFA members or not, forget ALL the work NAFA has done over the years to promote and further the sport. We wouldn't be where we are today without the tireless volunteers that spend their own money, sacrifice their personal time away from family and days in the field to keep ahead of all the issues falconry entails, from legal problems, antis, dissention etc. You may not always agree with what is done or how it's being done, but it is being done by someone that gives a damn. I for one am convinced that the falconry I practice today would not be what it is without NAFA. I well remember having legal falconry restricted to the short established hunting seasons shared with the gun hunters, outside those predetermined dates, we were always looking over our shoulders and scrambling. Where do these complainers think the 7 month and longer seasons came from, the access to wild peregrines? NAFA was instrumental on so many fronts that were and still are crucial to the survival of falconry as we see it today. I challenge anyone to say the same for any other group. My money stays with NAFA, whether or not I always agree with how or why things are done.

Well said Ray! Some of us on here put our money into more than one national (or International) orginization, sometime one is just not enough.

[chamokane]

Well said Ray! Some of us on here put our money into more than one national (or International) orginization, sometime one is just not enough.

Good point, Jeff. Each organization is working on it's own vision of what is good for falconry. Because each works at a slightly different tangent, sometimes more is accomplished than if there was only one entity.

The only way an organization is going to be completely aligned with any one individual's ideas is for that individual to be the whole membership, but that wouldn't be much fun, and it would be way too much work.

[chamokane]

In his most recent Director's Report, Ralph Rogers basically said that in days gone bye NAFA members were interested in what they could do for falconry, while many of todays members are more interested in what NAFA can do for them. Leaving personalities out of it, do you feel that Ralph has a valid point, or not? I am not saying I agree with Ralph, but frankly, in the short time I have been part of this forum, I have read a number of comments along the line, "NAFA does not represent my interests, " or "What do I get for my dues besides a periodicals?" etc.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

Well, I think NAFA members should be interested in what NAFA can do for them, if by that they mean, what can NAFA do to keep falconry good. What other reason is there for NAFA to exist? Any organization can get headed the wrong way, it's up to the membership to keep it on the right path.

There's not room for everyone to to work within NAFA, but still, everyone can do something for falconry. In addition to holding positions in state clubs, we can all help falconry by how we present ouselves to the general public. Like it or not, we are visible and people do form opinions. If we practice falconry in an ethical manner, deal with the public in a friendly, courteous, and informative manner, give presentations at libraries, schools, bird watcher groups, etc. when asked, we are doing something for falconry. Not everyone can be a mover and a shaker, but we can all be good citizens of the falconry community. In my state, we lost hound hunting because the antis really got behind a ballet initiative, and it seemed like many houndsmen had gone out of their way to antagonize the public. We could lose falconry the same way. Most people vote on something like that on an emotional basis; we can all try to give folks a good impression of falconry and falconers.

[sharptail]

It is great to see you back on Nafex Dave!!! I hope to read more of you hawking adventures soon!

[borderhawk]

You are right on the mark, Jeff. We graybeards have been fretting about the upcoming generations for millennia.

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Plato wrote that.

Excellent quote!

Thing is... the politics has been in the hands of the "elders" of the village or clan since the beginning of humanity. The younger generation is working on struttin' their stuff to prove their procreational value and at the same time developing their worth as a strong link in the chain leading them to become that seasoned elder that now has the experience and wisdom to make good political decisions. It's the natural course of things.


I joined Nafa once when I went to the Amarillo meet, and do regret letting it lapse after that. Here in Arizona, our G&F has flat out told us they have no budget to put any effort into our adoption of the new regs, and that there's nothing we can do about it but wait. They're predicting it will be at least another couple years. Now, if Nafa can do something about that, I'm sure they'd gain alot more members in this state!