Welcome to the Pineo Falconry forum on NAFEX

[Corsair]

Welcome to our new forum! I'm getting ready to head out and look for huns with the dogs and hawks, but NAFEX owner Chris Lynn just sent me an e-mail with the details about the new Pineo Falconry forum on NAFEX, so I figured I'd whip out a quick note. We appreciate everyone's support here at Pineo Outdoors LLC, which most of you know as Pineo Falconry.

We've been striving to design and manufacture the best technical game hawking equipment available for over 40 years. Since 1966, in fact! Our goal has always been to make highly functional and durable falconry furniture which supports safe care of our hunting hawks, and more fun in the field. We make all of our line of gear here in the US, mostly with US materials. Partly this is because we support American manufacturing, but also because most of the best materials available for use in our products are made in America.

My original "claim to fame" is my hoods, which I've continually strived to improve, since making my first attempts in 1963. Our hood leather is a 4 ounce calfskin finished exclusively for Pineo Falconry in England, since there are no remaining American tanneries which can produce it. Our glove leathers are tanned in the United States, from USA sources hides.


I used hawking bags for over 30 years, before developing the AVATAR Hawking Vest in 1994, with lots of input from fellow game hawkers around the US. The AVATAR Hawking Vest is the only vest widely copied. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. We're flattered all right, but if you want the inimitable original, made with American made duPont nylon Cordura, American thread from North Carolina, and military specification hardware and fittings, get an AVATAR Hawking Vest or Bandolero Hawking Bag. We guarantee it will be the least expensive hawking vest or hawking bag to use and own, with many in continual use since the mid-1990s.

Look for an article on hawking gloves and their care, which duck hawker extraordinaire Steve Oleson prompted me to write for an upcoming issue of the Texas Hawking Association's "On the Wing", edited by the famous Danny Pickens. In this piece, I write why we use American tanned heavy goatskin for our gloves and gauntlets. We have our goatskin finished in our own proprietary colors and specifications, from American sourced hides. A good hawking glove can last a season or less, or 5 or more years, depending on a host of factors, but if you take care of them, they'll generally provide several seasons of comfortable use before replacement is needed.

But hey, it's really all about having fun in the field with our hawks and dogs, and whenever we can, our friend as well. We are committed to continually improving our gear, which has benefited from customer feedback over the past 5 decades. We welcome comment from you about our gear, and suggestions for improvements and new products you'd like to see. Okay, I'm out the door, into the Palouse!

Best regards and good hawking,

Doug Pineo

[Chris L.]

Its great to have you on board Doug! Your company and the products you produce are top of the line. I look forward to Pineo Falconry's presence on NAFEX.

To the Members: Please keep an eye on the Pineo Outdoors forum for new products and offers.

Happy hawking!

Chris

[sakerjack]

Welcome Doug, I purchased a special order Leather bag from you,,, first class and first class service.

[Corsair]

Thanks Ken, glad you enjoy using the custom version of our Bandolero Hawking Bag. Send me some hero shots with you and the Bandolero and your dogs and hawks!

[COMEAUX]

Hey Doug,how are ya doing? Are ya gonna make the NAFA MEET this year?


Chris

[Corsair]

Yep, I'll be at the NAFA meet this year from Sunday to Wednesday. I can already taste those wild Gulf shrimp, produced and harvested in US waters!

[Betelgeuse]

Hi Doug,
Love your vests. We have several and they are the only vest for both falconry and gun dog training.
Also using one of your hoods for the first time on a female HH. Fits perfectly.

[High Desert Hawker]

Will I be able to purchase an Avatar hawking vest at the Nafa meet ?

[DirtHawker]

Hi Doug,
I love the Bandolero Bag I have been using it for three years... but now I have bag envy. My old apprentice got one of the new redesign bags, and I love the improvements, but my current bag is in perfect shape and I have no real reason to get the new one other than.. bag envy.

Excellent product, I have dragged it over, under and through about every thing and it shows no wear whatsoever.
Sue

[Corsair]

Bag envy! Gotta' love it. Hey guys, thanks for the contacts. I'll be at the NAFA meet from Sunday to Wednesday, and will have AVATAR Hawking Vests and Bandolero Hawking Bags with me. Also, our titanium swivels, gloves and gauntlets, braided gear, and even a few hoods! Katy, glad that Harris's hawk hood fits correctly.

[Betelgeuse]

Katy, glad that Harris's hawk hood fits correctly.

To be clear, this is a hood that Brad Higgins bought from you.

[dliepe]

My falconry is made better by the quaility products you offer..simply none better!!!

[xjturnerx]

Hey Doug do your gloves come with a bad dog warranty. Mine is now missing a thumb. Had it for two years. And it fit like well a glove. Like a glove should anyway. Awesome products

[STait]

Your vests are the best Doug. How would I know though? I've been using yours for I don't know how many years and it is like new still. Doubt I'll ever need another to try.

Steve

[Chris Proctor]

My original "claim to fame" is my hoods, which I've continually strived to improve, since making my first attempts in 1963.

The mark of a real hoodmaker, someone who continually strives to make better hoods despite having been making them since the 60's. They can always get better, no matter how good they are. Great comment Doug.

[Corsair]

Thanks guys, and geez, we have kinda' figured out that the durability of the AVATAR Hawking Vest and Bandolero Hawking Bag is maybe a design flaw from a sales standpoint! Only kidding...I'm still using a late prototype from 1994.

Bad dog warranties? We hafta' draw the line somewhere. I feel for ya' Jordan, and we have a good stock on hand now for a replacement! We guarantee workmanship and materials on our Cordura products for life, but battery acid and enthusiastic dogs are "outside the envelope". We've had a few folks send us vests in hope of repair after their canine hunting buddies got through with them in the back of the truck. Sometimes we can do a repair, other times the damage is so extensive the cost of repair would exceed the cost of a new vest.

And yeah, Chris, I'm always working to refine the hoods and my blocks. I finally feel close to being ready to invest in 3D scanning and digitally graduating and printing my blocks and patterns.

[echotadog]

Hi Doug,
I love the Bandolero Bag I have been using it for three years... but now I have bag envy. My old apprentice got one of the new redesign bags, and I love the improvements, but my current bag is in perfect shape and I have no real reason to get the new one other than.. bag envy.

Excellent product, I have dragged it over, under and through about every thing and it shows no wear whatsoever.
Sue

Totally agree , I've talked a few new TN falconers the past 2 seasons into buying the Bandolero and the new pocket design with the storage on the flap is bomber.
I've tried , earnestly, to destroy my Bandolero on fences and mass clumps of briars and it still looks new... Maybe I can sell it to the next apprentice that comes sniffing around

Thanks for what ya do Doug , always a pleasure doing business with you .

[Goshawk635]

Great stuff as always Doug. I retired my early prototype when we moved back to Washington as my wife replaced it for me with another of your fine vests. I appreciate your commitment to excellence and your support through the years. I still believe that your chapter in A Bond With the Wild is one of the finest pieces of writing regarding the Palouse country. I would love to see more writing from you my friend.

[Hawkmom]

I just ordered a hood protector. I eagerly look forward to using it. I remember ordering and getting some all hand sewn leather hood protectors (2) in the early 90's. But, I don't remember who made them. Either you, Clayton Smith or Moran. They are not signed, velvet lined, velcro closure with a belt loop on them. I want to keep them un altered to keep their value. I needed one with a velcro attachment or clip.

On your swivels, I have several old Bill Snell/Steve Little stainless swivels. I love them. I have merlin to eagle sized swivels. They are still is use. But I will want another eagle swivel in the future.

[Corsair]

I just ordered a hood protector. I eagerly look forward to using it. I remember ordering and getting some all hand sewn leather hood protectors (2) in the early 90's. But, I don't remember who made them. Either you, Clayton Smith or Moran. They are not signed, velvet lined, velcro closure with a belt loop on them. I want to keep them un altered to keep their value. I needed one with a velcro attachment or clip.

On your swivels, I have several old Bill Snell/Steve Little stainless swivels. I love them. I have merlin to eagle sized swivels. They are still is use. But I will want another eagle swivel in the future.

Kitty,

We've had a run on our Hood Holsters, and they're on back order. Our current production run should be ready next week. You almost certainly have the Clay Smith hood protectors, which are a different design than ours. As far as I know, Clay was the first guy to market a hood protector for field use. His dad was an excellent leather craftsman, and produced the design Clay came up with.

The original inspiration for our "figure 8" titanium swivels are the brass swivels Joe Harmer made in the Philadelphia area in the mid-1960s, which in turn were modeled on British examples from the 19th and early 20th centuries. Joe's swivels featured a soldered pin connecting the two rings, and a brass spacer (like a thick washer) separating the rings. When I started college in 1968, I'd been making falconry furniture for several years, including swivels, and selling hoods, gauntlets and bells for over a year. A man named Mike Melville, an excellent machinist newly arrived from South Africa via England, developed welded stainless steel swivels, and perhaps even more remarkable, WELDED stainless steel bells! Anyhow, I sold Mike Melville's swivels and bells through my budding falconry equipment business for a while before my college career demanded I scale back only to making hoods for other falconers.

Mike turned his swivel and block spike sideline over to Steve Little when Mike went to work with Burt Rutan, the famous aircraft designer. Steve eventually turned the swivel and block spike business over to Bill Snell, and Mike Melville went on to become the first commercial civilian astronaut, piloting SpaceShipOne, winning the Ansari XPrize for Scaled Composites, where he collaborated for over 25 years with Burt Rutan, not only as a principal test pilot, but also in design and fabrication.

In the latter 1990s a cycling friend of mine named Dave Bise observed one morning at our kitchen table that I "should make those swivels in titanium", which seemed immediately like a great idea. There's a lot of titamium in high end racing and sport bicycles. Super light and strong, just doesn't corrode. Little did I know about the challenges and exotic technical requirements in machining, welding and finishing titanium.

Anyhow, I designed the Pineo Falconry Titanium Swivel in 4 sizes with a longer spacer, shaped more like a bushing, between the rings, to help preserve the swiveling function if a jess slips down from a ring. Our Titanium Swivel tested at over 500 pounds breaking strength on a Boeing destructive testing machine, and weighs 3.4 grams in the most popular 16mm size. A nickel plated bronze Sampo swivel weighs somewhere around 7 or 8 times as much.

Titanium does not embrittle in extreme cold. Machinists and metallurgists call titanium "metalurgically tough", because it does not embrittle, is highly resilient yet quite hard (and so is rather difficult to machine), and just does not corrode in the wide range of environments naturally encountered on planet Earth. We have been making and improving this swivel in the USA for 14 years. There's a short version of the rest of the story!

[Saluqi]

Great history lesson Doug, thanks! Thanks for great gear and leather over the years. It will be great to catch up with you at the meet in Kearney. Take Care.

[Corsair]

Also, Scott and Phil, thanks for the kind words and encouragement. Phil, great to have you back in the Northwest after your Midwest diaspora!

[GONEHAWKN]

I was given one if Doug's swivels as a gift last year. It's a great piece for sure! My only complain is that dang titanium is super light and find myself constantly feeling my pocket to make sure it's still there. Kitty, I also use one of Doug's hood protectors. I recommend it for sure! I have had some of the other hood protectors sold by others. They are made with inferior materials which fail in short order. Good to have ya here Doug.

[Tony James]

I was given one if Doug's swivels as a gift last year. It's a great piece for sure! My only complain is that dang titanium is super light and find myself constantly feeling my pocket to make sure it's still there. Kitty, I also use one of Doug's hood protectors. I recommend it for sure! I have had some of the other hood protectors sold by others. They are made with inferior materials which fail in short order. Good to have ya here Doug.

Hi Bill,

it's not my place to advertise, but it occurs to me that I took to the field today wearing an avatar vest of Doug's complete with his attached hood holster, with a peregrine wearing one of Doug's hoods (she's slightly small and wears a size 5), his braided jesses, extender and leash, and one of those fantastic titanium swivels!
Barring the hood, the jerkin is similarly furnished.
I recently started using the bandelero (is that the name?) but didn't really get on with it so reverted back to my avatar vest (I have two of them so washing one doesn't become inconvenient).

I trust you're well Doug, and let me add to what others have said in praise of your products. They're fantastic!

Best wishes,

Tony.

[rbtownsend]

Doug-

I got one of your Avatar vests in 1996 and have used it several times a week throughout the hawking season ever since. I have not been kind to the vest at all and do some hard sage grouse hawking in brutal conditions. About 5-6 years ago I bought a new Avatar vest thinking the old reliable from 1996 would start wearing out soon. Last year I saw the Bandalero and had to get one of those as well, thinking the old reliable from 1996 would wear out soon. The two newer bags still adorn the wall in my hawk house and the old reliable still ends up in the truck when I go out. What more can I say! I am sure I will end up buying another "new" version before one of the older, new ones are pressed into service.

Brad Townsend

[Corsair]

There you go, Brad, 16 years and going strong with an AVATAR Hawking Vest!

[oldguy]

I had a vest imported by another supplier. Didn't last a season. Straps came loose from stitching. I gave it away as "fixer-upper" and bought a Bandalero bag. Works great for a lefty.

I have a cleaning system that works on the bag. I put it on the floor open and my wife's Mini Dachschund crawls inside and licks it spotless !

I was kidding another falconer on facebook about ditching Sampos in picture and getting a Pineo swivel. You wouldn't believe the mad comments I got ! I was just joking around. Sampos do have their followers !

If swivel and leash aren't on a bird I tie them up in a loose knot in bag pocket. Easier to find.

I am a loyal customer to reliable businesses. Pineo is one of those.

[Corsair]

Thanks, Dan, also a great suggestion for not losing the swivel.

[Ken S.]

Welcome Doug, I purchased a special order Leather bag from you,,, first class and first class service.

I'd like to see a picture of that leather bag!

[Corsair]

Okay, Ken Hooke, you read it, post up a hero shot of you using your custom leather Bandolero! I have one other on hand here at the shop, and can psot a photo if necessary. Send me an e-mail at: doug@pineofalconry.com, and I'll reply with photos.

[sakerjack]

Okay, Ken Hooke, you read it, post up a hero shot of you using your custom leather Bandolero! I have one other on hand here at the shop, and can psot a photo if necessary. Send me an e-mail at: doug@pineofalconry.com, and I'll reply with photos.

OK will do in the next few days.

[Alex Stokes]

I have to echo these comments, I bought my Avatar hawking vest from Doug at the NAFA meet in 1996 and it's still as good as the day I bought it.
Like Brad's, mine has seen some tough hawking, (read year's of goshawking) it has also been through the washing machine countless times and still shows no sign of age. The only downside, for Doug anyway, is that you only need to buy one and it seems to last forever!

Alex Stokes

Doug-

I got one of your Avatar vests in 1996 and have used it several times a week throughout the hawking season ever since. I have not been kind to the vest at all and do some hard sage grouse hawking in brutal conditions. About 5-6 years ago I bought a new Avatar vest thinking the old reliable from 1996 would start wearing out soon. Last year I saw the Bandalero and had to get one of those as well, thinking the old reliable from 1996 would wear out soon. The two newer bags still adorn the wall in my hawk house and the old reliable still ends up in the truck when I go out. What more can I say! I am sure I will end up buying another "new" version before one of the older, new ones are pressed into service.

Brad Townsend

[Alex Stokes]

[/QUOTE]The original inspiration for our "figure 8" titanium swivels are the brass swivels Joe Harmer made in the Philadelphia area in the mid-1960s, which in turn were modeled on British examples from the 19th and early 20th centuries. [/QUOTE]

Tony James recently posted photos, on the IFF, of Blaine's falcons with swivels of the same "figure 8" design. It is nice to be able to use something of a traditional design, with the added benefit of modern materials.

Alex Stokes

[Tony James]

The original inspiration for our "figure 8" titanium swivels are the brass swivels Joe Harmer made in the Philadelphia area in the mid-1960s, which in turn were modeled on British examples from the 19th and early 20th centuries. [/QUOTE]

Tony James recently posted photos, on the IFF, of Blaine's falcons with swivels of the same "figure 8" design. It is nice to be able to use something of a traditional design, with the added benefit of modern materials.

Alex Stokes[/QUOTE]

Hi Alex, I'd forgotten those pictures.

I so wish I was able to put pictures on here, as I'd share a lovely image of Jack Mavrogordato and Leonard Potter at Woodhall Spa 1969, showing a Redtail that Doug trapped and gave to Jack in 1967.
I finally remembered to e-mail it to Doug yesterday, who's filled me in with some really interesting history.

Those gentlemen would be astonished at the quality of the furniture available today.

Best wishes,

Tony.

[redbird1]

I like a stiffer glove - one that a big PFRT can grip hard without making me wince. I also don't like getting a talon through the thinner leather under the top fingers. I have heard others express similar preferences - and state that goatskin gloves, while soft, pliable and durable, are not stiff or heavy enough for their liking. Do you work with cowhide at all?