Peregrine training books

[adam norrie]

Hi Alex,

It was through David Frank that I met Geoffrey Pollard, as well as fixing his enclosures I went grouse hawking with him on a few occasions. Great times.
We have to spend time with the "old boys", that is the only way to glean those little bits of info that means so much. Whether it's about training techniques or other falconers of the past.

In Laggard, Page 267, John is in fact Geoffrey Pollard.

Hi AJ, Apologies for contributing to your thread going off track.

[Alex Stokes]

Adam,

That's some encyclopedic knowledge you have there! I'm going to look up that passage, as it is always interesting to see these stories in context.

I wonder why Stevens was so reticient about naming individuals?

AJ, Likewise I seem to have contributed significantly into steering this thread somewhat off course, but the information coming forward is so fascinating. I know most threads tend to "drift" somewhat, and I hope you will allow the latitude for this to continue.

Alex

Hi Alex,

It was through David Frank that I met Geoffrey Pollard, as well as fixing his enclosures I went grouse hawking with him on a few occasions. Great times.
We have to spend time with the "old boys", that is the only way to glean those little bits of info that means so much. Whether it's about training techniques or other falconers of the past.

In Laggard, Page 267, John is in fact Geoffrey Pollard.

Hi AJ, Apologies for contributing to your thread going off track.

[Yeomanfalconer]

I agree totally with you Alex, and Tony, I haven't read Stevens's book but I love Turners book. I'm hoping to get "Observations" in a week or so. I respect many of the guys on here saying how good the book is. I'm never to old to learn something new, or be reminded of effective techniques.

Ronald Stevens was an avian fan of a variety of species. He enjoyed the imprint eyass falcon for the tameness they displayed. He found passage peregrines sad, unhappy with their life. Michell offers much more information on passage falcons. Seperate the two according to what you ant to get.

[Tony James]

Ronald Stevens was an avian fan of a variety of species. He enjoyed the imprint eyass falcon for the tameness they displayed. He found passage peregrines sad, unhappy with their life. Michell offers much more information on passage falcons. Seperate the two according to what you ant to get.

Hi Eric,

I'm not sure there's a need to separate them so.
Both that you mention offer wonderful information and advice based on their own experience and preferences. Some aspects will have been better understood by one or the other, but both offer very useful and thought provoking insight.
I'm inclined to agree with Alex in his assertion that it's worth reading as much as possible to get a broad education. For example, A Hawk for the Bush is not intended to relate to the peregrine, yet there is information in it that would benefit anyone flying peregrines.
For what it's worth, I believe the real value of Observations is in regard to the home life and hooding of falcons rather than the actual hawking, but other's will be inspired by different aspects.

Best wishes,

Tony.

[dliepe]

How about a book to learn some field craft. I like Joe Roy III book, Duck Hawking. Touches on most of the subtleties on hawking pond ducks right down to the species. Sure he wasn't the first to master the art but he hits a homerun on all the finer points of duckhawking. Assuming that most peregrines become duck hawks this is a good book to look at.
Conolly wrote some great stuff as well, in Game Hawking At Its Very Best I think. He tore up California back in the day.......a true legend.

[AK Rev]

Both of Joe's books are good. My only complaint is his inclusion of political & environmental subjects.

[Martin Hollinshead]

Hi Alex,

As you have found out, Ronald Stevens was a little clever in writing his books. One of his other books, Laggard, there are places and characters the he wrote about that had their names changed.
Bee cottage is really Lake cottage situated at the end of a large artificial body of water in front of Walcot hall. Ronald had to stay there after WWII as the army were still occupying Walcot.

Page 211. Robert is really Frank Muirden who was Ronalds professional falconer. Before the war, Frank was with Gilbert Blaine in Islay. When Blaine gave up falconry, Frank went to Ronald Stevens.

Page 213. The Plateau is the Long Mynd grouse moor.

Page 217. Edward is really William Humphrey, probably the most famous and successful breeder and trainer of the English Setter of modern times. He made 43 International field trial champions.

Page 221. Frogs' gutter is pole cottage. it was the only building on top of the Longmynd.

The list goes on, but I will stop there. one year during the off season I used to go to Geoffrey Pollard's every day to make good all his enclosures before his falcons went in. Obviously during those times we used to have long talks about when he started with Ronald Stevens. Great days and great memories.

Hi Adam,
Do you ever get out Walcot Hall way? I pass it quite often and took advantage of an open-garden day some time back to explore a little. Strange to wander about and think of Stevens walking the same paths and training his hawks in the adjacent fields.
Same for the Long Mynd. I’m up there quite a lot too – though never on a weekend due to the amount of people it attracts (In summer the road across the top sees it like Blackpool beach on a good day!). I wonder what Stevens would think of all the activity?
And yet, walk the Mynd mid-week especially in the colder months, and the desolate charm Stevens would have known, is still there. Go up to the site of Pole Cottage and gaze out over the vast high terrain and for a second, just a second, was that the tinkle of a hawk bell…..
Martin

[Yeomanfalconer]

Hi Eric,

I'm not sure there's a need to separate them so.
Both that you mention offer wonderful information and advice based on their own experience and preferences. Some aspects will have been better understood by one or the other, but both offer very useful and thought provoking insight.
I'm inclined to agree with Alex in his assertion that it's worth reading as much as possible to get a broad education. For example, A Hawk for the Bush is not intended to relate to the peregrine, yet there is information in it that would benefit anyone flying peregrines.
For what it's worth, I believe the real value of Observations is in regard to the home life and hooding of falcons rather than the actual hawking, but other's will be inspired by different aspects. Stevens had some bird friends that tapped at the window to be let in during a rain storm, as surely as he had friends who wanted to go slay a grouse.

Best wishes,

Tony.

There exists a fairly wide feeling of tame falcon vs. wild inclinatiion falcon.I have had passage peregrines, where the bond is at most, controlled I continually have to real Pokie to conform to my desires. Now in the molt, Pokie is bateing at the first bird flushed from the bird feeder in the morning, He wants to rip the head off of western tanagers. His wings are beating so fast.

[Tony James]

There exists a fairly wide feeling of tame falcon vs. wild inclinatiion falcon.I have had passage peregrines, where the bond is at most, controlled I continually have to real Pokie to conform to my desires. Now in the molt, Pokie is bateing at the first bird flushed from the bird feeder in the morning, He wants to rip the head off of western tanagers. His wings are beating so fast.

Hi Eric,

each to their own I guess.

Personally I like tame hawks (tame enough for me at least), and more than that I like well mannered hawks --- and tame, well mannered hawks, that excel in the field, well, I like them a lot!

I'm afraid I don't have a real affinity with imprinted falcons (and certainly couldn't have tolerated some of the falcons that RS enjoyed), but have friends who have no interest in hacked eyasses or passage hawks. As I say, each to their own.

But the point I was trying to make regarding those books, and all good falconry books, is that they each have something very positive to offer the intelligent reader.

Have a good next season with Pokie,

best wishes,

Tony.

[STait]

Now that I've read a fair amount of "Observations" I have a clearer view of the kind of falconer RS was and I love many of his observations. I especially like the paragraphs talking about the best falconers taming their birds with the least amount of bates as possible. I've stressed that point enough on this forum so you already know I'm an old fashioned falconer, agreeing with the old English falconers and I'm very grateful for their contributions to the quality of my personal falconry. They were my mentors when I was a kid getting into falconry, along with a few friends that I tried to exemplify.

You guys were right, it's a great book.

[Rocky]

I've got a 1st ed of 'Observations', its been read alot, brown spots on the cover and the spine is browned, the staples are rusty, as they usually are, there's writing on the title page, it was a working book and it shows it, but its still holding together very well and internally it is very clean. $45 and free shipping, if no one wants it it goes into the CHC raffle donation box. Just thought I'd throw it out there. PM me if you want it.

_______________________________________

Rocky
"..., having made them an object of special care"

[Alex Stokes]

Rocky,

I sent you a PM.

Regards

Alex

I've got a 1st ed of 'Observations', its been read alot, brown spots on the cover and the spine is browned, the staples are rusty, as they usually are, there's writing on the title page, it was a working book and it shows it, but its still holding together very well and internally it is very clean. $45 and free shipping, if no one wants it it goes into the CHC raffle donation box. Just thought I'd throw it out there. PM me if you want it.

_______________________________________

Rocky
"..., having made them an object of special care"

[Rocky]

Well, the book is spoken for. I'm glad to see it go to some one who will enjoy and appreciate its history. Thanks,

___________________________________

Rocky
"..., having made them an object of special care."

[Yeomanfalconer]

There exists a fairly wide feeling of tame falcon vs. wild inclinatiion falcon.I have had passage peregrines, where the bond is at most, controlled I continually have to real Pokie to conform to my desires. Now in the molt, Pokie is bateing at the first bird flushed from the bird feeder in the morning, He wants to rip the head off of western tanagers. His wings are beating so fast.

I personally enjoy imprints and passage. I am sure I would just fall in love with a well-hacked peregrine. I enjoy the books and articles written about both (all). What I am experiencing now with my imprint (albiet crazy man tiercel) is what has been resently described by some Canadians in the latest Hawk Chalk. The tame hacked, imprint peregrine.
Insight is to be gained by a number of books on the subject of peregrines in research and recovery. Enderson's "Blue Meanie" is one such work. I think the time is ripe for a modern update dealing with all the ages of peregrines that are available now-days.

[Tony James]

I personally enjoy imprints and passage. I am sure I would just fall in love with a well-hacked peregrine. I enjoy the books and articles written about both (all). What I am experiencing now with my imprint (albiet crazy man tiercel) is what has been resently described by some Canadians in the latest Hawk Chalk. The tame hacked, imprint peregrine.
Insight is to be gained by a number of books on the subject of peregrines in research and recovery. Enderson's "Blue Meanie" is one such work. I think the time is ripe for a modern update dealing with all the ages of peregrines that are available now-days.

Hi Eric,

I agree.

Although I'm an avid fan of falcons that were parent raised, there are other options that have not been the subject of such comprehensive study.

Best wishes,

Tony.

[Yeomanfalconer]

Hi Eric,

I agree.

Although I'm an avid fan of falcons that were parent raised, there are other options that have not been the subject of such comprehensive study.

Best wishes,

Tony.

Lynn Oliphant"s, awesome article, just what I experienced with Pokie this past year. He was almost too well trained to the car, by October he was bringing passerines out of the sky to the roof rack.

[Alex Stokes]

I read Lynn's article in the Hawk Chalk and found it fascinating. I am sure his book will be an interesting new insight for anyone interested in hacking.

Mark Williams bought a tiercel anatum last year which was hacked and trained by Lynn, a really nice flying hawk. Mark is delighted with him and believes he is one of the best falcons he has had, testament to Lynn's skill.

Regards

Alex

Lynn Oliphant"s, awesome article, just what I experienced with Pokie this past year. He was almost too well trained to the car, by October he was bringing passerines out of the sky to the roof rack.

[igmontos]

this really belongs to the sticky thread on hack! regards, ignacio.

[Alex Stokes]

Lynn's method is more than just hacking, he trains the hawks at the same time, take a look at the most recent Hawk Chalk. He specializes in anatum peregrines so it will be useful for anyone training a peregrine (or any other longwing I would think) who has the scope to hack.

Regards

Alex

this really belongs to the sticky thread on hack! regards, ignacio.

[Robin]

I recieved my copie of Observations today...will be some nice reading.

[igmontos]

actually don't have access to hawk chalk, but looks very interesting. sure besides forums like this.. make for a nice reading too. regards.

[sugezwolf]

My vote is for The Flying of Falcons by Ed Pitcher. Once I'd bought this book I immediately sold my entire falconry library that I'd accumulated over 30 years.

Gerry x

[outhawkn]

So what do you mean if you have the space and birds? Just getting some incite...$85 for a book that doesn't have a lot of a description on the website. The example pages is more talking about his experience rather than how I've read other sample pages. I hope I don't come across as bagging on the guys, its just not he usual type sample readings I'm used to. More incite please.... LOL.... thanks.

Its not worth the money IMO.....

[outhawkn]

If you're looking for a book on the peregrine written in the UK, you can't do better than "Observations on Modern Falconry" by Robert Stevens.

Stevens knew the peregrine.

Great chapter on hooding. Small book, lots of knowledge inside.

Good luck, Dan.

and its available on Kindle.....

[Alex Stokes]

Gerry,

That might have been a little hasty!

I am reading Pitcher's book at the moment, and there is a lot of interesting material contained within it. How pratical his method is though I'm not sure?

The dazzling pitches he talks of seem to rely to a large degree on thermals, and a lot of people don't fly in areas where you can take advantage of them, at least not season round.

It will be interesting to see how much success is achieved when people follow his method, particularly in the absence of "jubilant air".

Alex

My vote is for The Flying of Falcons by Ed Pitcher. Once I'd bought this book I immediately sold my entire falconry library that I'd accumulated over 30 years.

Gerry x

[sugezwolf]

Gerry,

That might have been a little hasty!

I am reading Pitcher's book at the moment, and there is a lot of interesting material contained within it. How pratical his method is though I'm not sure?

The dazzling pitches he talks of seem to rely to a large degree on thermals, and a lot of people don't fly in areas where you can take advantage of them, at least not season round.

It will be interesting to see how much success is achieved when people follow his method, particularly in the absence of "jubilant air".

Alex

Hi Alex - agreed about the thermals but I use the kite as a substitute for those!

Gerry x

[Alex Stokes]

Gerry,

Good luck with the kiting aspect.

How are you going to deal with Pitcher's theory of "high and wide" in order to create the "unseen assasin"? Most of the UK just isn't conducive to that sort of flight.

Regards

Alex

Hi Alex - agreed about the thermals but I use the kite as a substitute for those!

Gerry x

[sugezwolf]

Gerry,

Good luck with the kiting aspect.

How are you going to deal with Pitcher's theory of "high and wide" in order to create the "unseen assasin"? Most of the UK just isn't conducive to that sort of flight.

Regards

Alex

Hi Alex - I always prefer 'high & wide' for duck hawking flights in any case so won't present a problem.

Gerry x

[Alex Stokes]

Gerry,

With the limited field of view due to nature of the landscape, how will you witness any of the flight? I would also imagine "high and wide" will bring check far more into the equation?

Alex

Hi Alex - I always prefer 'high & wide' for duck hawking flights in any case so won't present a problem.

Gerry x

[sugezwolf]

Gerry,

With the limited field of view due to nature of the landscape, how will you witness any of the flight? I would also imagine "high and wide" will bring check far more into the equation?

Alex

Hi Alex - when I say wide I mean not as wide as high so that unless I am stood behind a tree (which can happen) I can still see the stoop. Also given the flight of mallards - which tends to be rather vertical - then the quarry should be high enough in the air by the time the stooping falcon connects to allow a good view of the end result.

Gerry x

[Alex Stokes]

Ah, makes sense.

Alex

Hi Alex - when I say wide I mean not as wide as high so that unless I am stood behind a tree (which can happen) I can still see the stoop. Also given the flight of mallards - which tends to be rather vertical - then the quarry should be high enough in the air by the time the stooping falcon connects to allow a good view of the end result.

Gerry x

[R Velarde]

Gerry,

That might have been a little hasty!

I am reading Pitcher's book at the moment, and there is a lot of interesting material contained within it. How pratical his method is though I'm not sure?

The dazzling pitches he talks of seem to rely to a large degree on thermals, and a lot of people don't fly in areas where you can take advantage of them, at least not season round.

It will be interesting to see how much success is achieved when people follow his method, particularly in the absence of "jubilant air".

Alex

Hello Alex. I hope things are going well for you. I just wanted to make a few comments about your questions. It seems like it is a misunderstanding about what the book is about.
Your are asking how practical this method is. Most falconers are looking at it as if the only way to fly these falcons is "Out of the Heavens".
I thought we mentioned in the book that the mental attitude was what we were after. No the height. Now if you have both great!
For example we think it is better to have a falcon flying kind of low 600 to 800 feet but with the right attitude, as if it knew it owned the sky, than one at 2500 feet looking in the bag.
And yes you are right, at the beginning the thermals are available and it is a nice way to have them learn success from such a height, but later on you have to mix flying early in the morning, later in the day, etc... giving them the opportunity to learn to fly on all conditions.
There are plenty of flights in the book that Ed talks about his falcons going out of sight by pumping and never stoping, but maybe those are only stories.
A good example and interesting to hear the story from Mark Williams is this one.
He came down to the 2012 Vernal NAFA meet. A few days before Robert set of a meeting "The Malad Skytrials" at this ranch for falconers to have a get together while they were on their way to Vernal.
Mark said it was in the single digits that morning with a few inches of fresh snow from the night before.
The first falconer flying was Steve Chindgren, and as usual his birds flew like no others, always the most consistent and very high. Mark's thoughts were "He had already witnessed the winner".
Mark said, after that things kept getting better and better. Hybrids, gyrs, peregrines were flown, etc...
The two birds that won the Malad Skytrials were flown by Daryl's kids. His nine and an eleven year old boys. The only thing these kids have ever seen is falcons coming out of the sky with Daryl and Ed's birds, and are not afraid to let them fly.
Mark said both birds disappeared in the sky, out pumped, out climbed, and out flew by far all other contestants. I think they had 15 flights that day.
The books has been translated into spanish now and there are a few people interested in translating it into german and italian. I think that is way down the road.
Alex, it is always good to read your comments. Thank you.
Ricardo

[MD Hawkman]

If you fly a Falcon ~ Get this book ! Well worth the money , if I had alot of money I'd get the Leather bound edition ! But I am a Falconer with a meager retirement benefit. So be it " Is this not the sport of Kings ? Lucky to be alive & flying today .