Random NAFA 2012 cell phone pics

[Chris L.]

Ok so lets see em.... Snap some pics with your cell phones and post em. At the end of the meet who ever has the best cell pic wins a NAFEX t shirt and a NAFEX beanie cap...The members will vote who wins. The only rule is it has to be taken with a cell phone

It doesn't have to be of hunting... Just post what you take pics of. You packing, hunting, showering... What ever!

( if you have an iPhone ,and are a NAFEX supporting member, you can upload right from your iphone. Just click the paper clip and up load your pic. Not sure if it works with any other phone... If not just upload to a CPU. )


Well I guess I will start it off. ...a beer in the meet hotel bar:) .. Damn that taste good!!

[Lowachi]

cool , have another for me!!

[Chris L.]

cool , have another for me!!

Oh for sure! I hope you get here soon brotha.

[Tasha55403]

Showering? Really? Lol...too bad I'm not that kinda girl-I could win with that one I bet!:eek::D

[sakerjack]

Ok so lets see em.... Snap some pics with your cell phones and post em. At the end of the meet who ever has the best cell pic wins a NAFEX t shirt and a NAFEX beanie cap...The members will vote who wins. The only rule is it has to be taken with a cell phone

It doesn't have to be of hunting... Just post what you take pics of. You packing, hunting, showering... What ever!

( if you have an iPhone ,and are a NAFEX supporting member, you can upload right from your iphone. Just click the paper clip and up load your pic. Not sure if it works with any other phone... If not just upload to a CPU. )


Well I guess I will start it off. ...a beer in the meet hotel bar:) .. Damn that taste good!!

YOU WIN!!!

[Lowachi]

Showering? Really? Lol...too bad I'm not that kinda girl-I could win with that one I bet!:eek::D

just so you can win, I here by volunteer ta take the shot, only to preserve your reputation of course, I won't even look :eek:

[Chris L.]

Showering? Really? Lol...too bad I'm not that kinda girl-I could win with that one I bet!:eek::D

Lol, That would win for sure! firsts... Rich you are so kind to offer to help



YOU WIN!!!

That was easy!

[colelkhunter]

just so you can win, I here by volunteer ta take the shot, only to preserve your reputation of course, I won't even look :eek:


:D:D:D:D we need one of those emoticons with the guy shaking his finger.....

[colelkhunter]

I'm gonna sneak in and get a cell phone Pic of Fred Fogg showering. He keeps telling me that showering in a pink two piece and bathing cap is what everyone is SC does. I am skeptical to say the leastconfusedd

[frootdog]

My CELL pics

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-16092522.jpg

Deer season here ends Sunday

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-16095658.jpg

1st Bunny of the trip!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-15214048.jpg

Boner sleeping under the covers, cause that's how he rolls.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-16170117.jpg

We are the 1st to use the game freezer!

[Tasha55403]

just so you can win, I here by volunteer ta take the shot, only to preserve your reputation of course, I won't even look :eek:

Pmsl...I don't think it would matter if you looked since EVERYone would be looking at the pic...Too bad for y'all I am NOT that kinda girltoungeout I TAKE the pics, I am NOT the subject, clothed or not, lol:D

[Tasha55403]

I'm gonna sneak in and get a cell phone Pic of Fred Fogg showering. He keeps telling me that showering in a pink two piece and bathing cap is what everyone is SC does. I am skeptical to say the leastconfusedd

A pink two piece?...Ummm...where would the second piece go...ya know what...nevermind. I don't wanna know. That's a mental picture I can happily go my whole life without seeing:eek::D

[Chris L.]

Some more from me. No kill pics cause because I have yet to find a pond that has ducks:( where is Roswell when I need her!! Looking hard though. I found a few right at dark.. Lets hope tomorrow cell pic is of a dead duck!

Until then these will have to do

[DLemieux]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-15214048.jpg[/img]

Boner sleeping under the covers, cause that's how he rolls.

Real nice but I don't think lifting the covers to show us your boner is going to help you win.toungeout

[Ally]

Oh for sure! I hope you get here soon brotha.

You better be having a shot for me :)

[frootdog]

direct upload Works from Samsung droid!

[Lowachi]

1569got this from Brandi
amazing whatcha find along the side of the road...more amazing what some folks will pick up jaww

[Lowachi]

My CELL pics

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-16092522.jpg

Deer season here ends Sunday

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-16095658.jpg

1st Bunny of the trip!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-15214048.jpg

Boner sleeping under the covers, cause that's how he rolls.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/2012-11-16170117.jpg

We are the 1st to use the game freezer!

just cause I ain't there... it don't count til Monday... quit posting the pix hehehe

[michaelberan]

1570

[PeteJ]

Pmsl...I don't think it would matter if you looked since EVERYone would be looking at the pic...Too bad for y'all I am NOT that kinda girltoungeout I TAKE the pics, I am NOT the subject, clothed or not, lol:D
Well, you're ALMOST right.

[Lowachi]

:D:D:D:D we need one of those emoticons with the guy shaking his finger.....

yes I know, my bad. You can spank me if I make it there Tasha :D:D.
Evil Rich has returned:eek: Since I can't party there, I'm drinkin' alone. Sorry, forgive me, I'll leave evil Rich at home, I promise!!!haill

[JRedig]

direct upload Works from Samsung droid!

Who shot that one?:D

[FredFogg]

In Nebraska at 7 a.m.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii68/FredrickFogg/ECF32760-433A-4141-9EF7-D3FD5FD6996B-2412-000003400BD83FA5.jpg

[frootdog]

Land acquisition made easy!

[Chris L.]

I finally found some ducks! Big ass drake mallards and Doug was not sure what to do with them. He has never seen those big suckers before. He hit one but not hard enough. Lol. I'm still proud of him for first flight in Kearney. Here he is on our way back to the hotel after the flight

He put on a good show though. Tha land owner had about 10 people watching and they loved it

[Chris L.]

Me and homegirl trying to find pheasants

[JRedig]

Grace moments before becoming a 40lb lap dog, "are we there yet??!!"

[michaelberan]

The things you find while hunting

[dliepe]

Some more from me. No kill pics cause because I have yet to find a pond that has ducks:( where is Roswell when I need her!! Looking hard though. I found a few right at dark.. Lets hope tomorrow cell pic is of a dead duck!

Until then these will have to do

go west on 80 Chris.8 miles west 1 mile North. approximately ...of course!

[Dirthawking]

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/dirthawking/2012-11-17_18-59-26_845.jpg

[JRedig]

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/dirthawking/2012-11-17_18-59-26_845.jpg

Haha, took the same pic, beat me to posting it.

Looks like Mikey is doing the same November moult as last year...

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/birdmanmt/IMAG1492.jpg

[frootdog]

Posted for Michael

[Jason123]

Almost there! 9 hours in!!! http://t.co/nPhH0l9M

[frootdog]

Gaz manning his new bird!

[frootdog]

The proper way to get a kid ready for hawking and the result!

[michaelberan]

Gage was a fine little falconer today!

[MrBill]

Chris,

That's a nice-looking hood, for sure.

Bill Boni

[michaelberan]

500 ml of AB+ in the bag

[Lowachi]

500 ml of AB+ in the bag


congrats man..they'll have to wait for mine...

[FredFogg]

Jerry's fallen and he can't get up! LOL

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii68/FredrickFogg/F57EAF00-DA3F-4F4D-84C2-04953B5BBC4C-3604-000004716ABB6ADE.jpg

[Lowachi]

Jerry's fallen and he can't get up! LOL

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii68/FredrickFogg/F57EAF00-DA3F-4F4D-84C2-04953B5BBC4C-3604-000004716ABB6ADE.jpg

orcan't reach his beer?? :D

[Whigham]

David and Hope and their big ole fox squirrel!

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii68/FredrickFogg/538233F1-612D-4EB6-B779-CE359BE52BC2-3817-0000049D18E1A035.jpg

[GONEHAWKN]

I recognize that red neck!!

[ladyfalconer]

Way to go DAVID!!!!!!!

[Ross]

Keep this stuff coming. As one of the people who chooses to be with family over thanksgiving instead of going to the meet I enjoy these shots of meet day to day activities. I would love to be there, but it would be hurtful to my wife to not have thanksgiving have the whole family around.

[FredFogg]

Keep this stuff coming. As one of the people who chooses to be with family over thanksgiving instead of going to the meet I enjoy these shots of meet day to day activities. I would love to be there, but it would be hurtful to my wife to not have thanksgiving have the whole family around.

Ross, that is actually being discussed by NAFA, changing the week to another one. It is a tough decision, as there are a lot of reasons to have it the week of Thanksgiving and a lot of reasons to change it.

[JRedig]

Keep this stuff coming. As one of the people who chooses to be with family over thanksgiving instead of going to the meet I enjoy these shots of meet day to day activities. I would love to be there, but it would be hurtful to my wife to not have thanksgiving have the whole family around.

There are a lot of folks here who come in Fri-sat and head home Wednesday for those reasons ross, still get almost everything the meet has to offer!

[michaelberan]

Falconry breakfast

[frootdog]

Is this why it's called dirthawking?!

[JRedig]

First kill with the new gos this year, out with my dad on a gorgeous evening, things are pretty good right now!!

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/birdmanmt/IMAG1500.jpg

[JRedig]

530 breakfast.

[Hawkmom]

Where can I get the sweatshirt I want one!!!

[Pedioecetes]

That's a Saskatchewan Falconry Association 50th Anniversary sweatshirt from the 2006 Field Meet.

[JRedig]

That was paddy or Lynn's sweatshirt.

Sunrise waiting for chickens!!

[michaelberan]

Just about shrimp eating time!

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Titaniumtalons/282E11DD-6856-42E8-9ADD-2658B4C3769C-5296-000003DC7433E18C.jpg

[michaelberan]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Titaniumtalons/D47A3EB6-F39F-4D3E-A4E7-13B0D14A2CC5-5296-000003DC6F85AA29.jpg

[michaelberan]

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Titaniumtalons/82E88DC8-778F-4AE8-B56F-3917139C5750-5296-000003DC69F60E46.jpg

[michaelberan]

Just an interesting tree we can upon while out hawking!

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Titaniumtalons/FCA5D092-02F8-45BB-98A1-C069E6938A6B-5296-000003DC5EDD1830.jpg

[michaelberan]

Yes Chris Starr, I saw the squirrel go in the hole!


http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Titaniumtalons/5A2B37E2-84EC-48B6-9919-5F5E584138F8-5296-000003DC4D4146C8.jpg

[echotadog]

[QUOTE=michaelberan;267951]Just an interesting tree we can upon while out hawking!

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Titaniumtalons/FCA5D092-02F8-45BB-98A1-C069E6938A6B-5296-000003DC5EDD1830.jpg[/

Is that a cottonwood tree the skulls are around ?
Looks to be a ceremonial placing , either crow , Cheyenne or Lakota would be my guess . The ram , mule deer and bison horns are sacred medicine to the holymen of those tribes , was there any color fabric in small ties around it as well. The Cottonwood is a sacred ceremonial tree as well .

My family is practicing traditional Lakota from SD and that grouping is all too familiar around family lodges and homesteads .
Nice find !

[JRedig]

One of many thorns I pulled out of my neck and shoulder...right through my clothes! Didn't catch the quail either...

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/birdmanmt/IMAG1511.jpg

[PeteJ]

Awww, that's a cute lil thorn Jeff! Sorry about the quail though. Did Mikey like it at least? Seemed fired up about it was he??

[JRedig]

Awww, that's a cute lil thorn Jeff! Sorry about the quail though. Did Mikey like it at least? Seemed fired up about it was he??

Oh yeah, 150+ yard chase downwind for the first three that bumped. Was able to relocate and reflush all 3, he chased them hard but the wind and quail won. We'll be back tomorrow with more daylight and fewer birds to fly.

[PeteJ]

Oh yeah, 150+ yard chase downwind for the first three that bumped. Was able to relocate and reflush all 3, he chased them hard but the wind and quail won. We'll be back tomorrow with more daylight and fewer birds to fly.
I'm sure that dog helps, plus even along those woodstrips and fence rows the quail should have pretty limited options compared to some places. Bobwhites I think are probably the easiest quail to take because they aren't quite as hot footed as some of the western quail. I'm sure you'll get one today. I bet Mikey felt like he'd gone to heaven! Good luck today.

[Tasha55403]

The Shrimp Boil:
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/30948_512924155392796_14791007_n.jpg

[Tasha55403]

Brian found some beaver sign while we were out hawking...

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/604164_512924002059478_1256834915_n.jpghttps://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526361_512924032059475_1100193109_n.jpg

[Tasha55403]

ROFLMAO...Brian winning the transmitter at the NAFEX dinner!
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/543095_512924055392806_2132081928_n.jpg

[Tasha55403]

Brandon chasing down his pigeon (unsuccessfully...where's Mikey when you need him?!)
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/522305_512924132059465_789878260_n.jpg

[michaelberan]

High winds aside Ryuka and Xzin riding the T-perch like champions!

[NMHighPlains]

Car hawking 101:

Believe it or not, the landowner got out a humongous "skid steer" and lifted this car up. Michael crawled underneath, dislodged the bunny from on top of the transmission, and it still escaped!!! amennn

[JRedig]

AM duck crew, land owner and friends! Thanks rand for carrying ava across to see the flight!!

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/birdmanmt/IMAG1518.jpg

[wesleyc6]

Great pics guys. Living vicariously! Chris L. I would drive out and take pics all week if you would send that aplo back home with me. What a great looking bird. Time to get her bloody!

[JRedig]

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/birdmanmt/IMAG1522.jpg

[mithril]

Beautiful dog! Is she/he a Saluki?

[NMHighPlains]

AM duck crew, land owner and friends!

Can't be teal. No one's swimming around looking for the duck underwater.

[mainefalconer]

Beautiful dog! Is she/he a Saluki?

Yes he is. He belongs to NAFA's Mountain Director Paul Domski.

[Saluqi]

Yes he is. He belongs to NAFA's Mountain Director Paul Domski.

Yup, and in the photo he was scared sh!tless of some unmannered Vizsla!

[JRedig]

Yup, and in the photo he was scared sh!tless of some unmannered Vizsla!

I think he was gonna eat that Damn vizsla!!! Next year we gotta tie rabbit pelt to frannie's tail...or to Scott?

[falcon56]

[QUOTE=michaelberan;267951]Just an interesting tree we can upon while out hawking!

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/Titaniumtalons/FCA5D092-02F8-45BB-98A1-C069E6938A6B-5296-000003DC5EDD1830.jpg[/

Is that a cottonwood tree the skulls are around ?
Looks to be a ceremonial placing , either crow , Cheyenne or Lakota would be my guess . The ram , mule deer and bison horns are sacred medicine to the holymen of those tribes , was there any color fabric in small ties around it as well. The Cottonwood is a sacred ceremonial tree as well .

My family is practicing traditional Lakota from SD and that grouping is all too familiar around family lodges and homesteads .
Nice find !

I"m not sure if you are referring to these specific skulls or just in general, but those are white tail deer skulls/and that's not a buffalo skull.

[Ken S.]

I didn't take too many pictures... but here's a panoramic picture from my iPhone at the banquet. Great turnout...

http://photos.imageevent.com/saubier/falconry/websize/banquet_1.jpg

[sevristh]

Yup, and in the photo he was scared sh!tless of some unmannered Vizsla!

Speaking strictly from the experience of my own and only a very few other Vizsla's, I think they are all unmannered when it comes to introducing themselves to other dogs! My girl insists that every single dog she meets wants to be run up to and licked incessantly in the mouth... crazyy

[Chris L.]

Great pictures guys! It was cool to live through what others were seeing. I will compile a poll tomorrow with all of the pictures to see who won.

Thank you again to all those who participated in this it was fun!

[Tasha55403]

Hang on! I got a couple more! lol...
This one was at the gas station by the meet hotel...EVERYone was getting their cell phones out for this, lol.






https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/205551_514961635189048_648486228_n.jpg

[michaelberan]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/205551_514961635189048_648486228_n.jpg

I have a couple questions?

Why is the gorilla blind folded?

Where is that giraffes head?

Did Brian have fun with this picture?

[Tasha55403]

Santiago, Dianne Moller, Al Ross and Ed Pitcher with his leucistic tiercel peregrine...
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/556172_514961611855717_2064211543_n.jpg

Jeff Redig doing his best impression of Mickey Mouse after trying to help Ken Hooke lighten the load home ;)
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/9664_514961508522394_2060243499_n.jpg

[Tasha55403]

I have a couple questions?

Why is the gorilla blind folded?

Where is that giraffes head?

Did Brian have fun with this picture?

Pmsl, we ALL had fun with this one! Sadly though, I have no answers for you, only questions also...Whoever loaded these was downright twisted though, lol.

[joekoz]

I didn't take too many pictures... but here's a panoramic picture from my iPhone at the banquet. Great turnout...

http://photos.imageevent.com/saubier/falconry/websize/banquet_1.jpg

Anyone know what the turn out was for the meet?

[michaelberan]

Anyone know what the turn out was for the meet?

Officially , no but late in the game we had 472 registered

[colelkhunter]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/205551_514961635189048_648486228_n.jpg

I have a couple questions?

Why is the gorilla blind folded?

Where is that giraffes head?

Did Brian have fun with this picture?

Isn't it obvious? The giraffes head is up the elephants ass. The gorilla put on the blindfold because he could not take it any more. Yes, I had a BLAST for about 20 minutes with this at the gas station. Literally tears in my eyes thinking of the possibilities.

[Tasha55403]

The zebra is a prude and doesn't want anything to do with it, but the rhino is a voyeur and can't help but peek...:D

[colelkhunter]

like I said, so many ways to go with this picture. So many possibilities. This is surely the winner of the T-shirt. Hands down.:D

[Tasha55403]

like I said, so many ways to go with this picture. So many possibilities. This is surely the winner of the T-shirt. Hands down.:D
I dunno...it IS awesome and COMPLETELY random, but the one with you winning the transmitter-that's just irony in the extreme, lol:D

[colelkhunter]

I dunno...it IS awesome and COMPLETELY random, but the one with you winning the transmitter-that's just irony in the extreme, lol:D
comedians on here tonight

[arkyhawker]

Comeaux, Duffy, and landowner chauffeur preparing for an unconventional duck slip on the river. Compete with "Boliver salute"!
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/arkyhawker/2012-11-20_07-27-49_547.jpg

The return across the river after a successful flight on a gadwall
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/arkyhawker/2012-11-20_07-47-45_897.jpg

Chris Price with perlin after an unsuccessful flight
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/arkyhawker/2012-11-19_15-45-20_950.jpg

Comeaux and Heather preparing for the Coon-ass shrimp broil. Fantastic food Chris!
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/arkyhawker/2012-11-21_12-41-07_485.jpg

A motley Tennessee/Minnesota crew at the banquet
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/arkyhawker/2012-11-23_19-23-41_35.jpg

The southern crew......with a Canadian at the banquet. Thanks for tagging along Mark!
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/arkyhawker/2012-11-23_19-13-42_383.jpg

[NMHighPlains]

Santiago, Dianne Moller, Al Ross and Ed Pitcher with his leucistic tiercel peregrine...


Jeff Redig doing his best impression of Mickey Mouse after trying to help Ken Hooke lighten the load home ;)
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/9664_514961508522394_2060243499_n.jpg

So that was Pitcher's peregrine that was last to leave the weathering area on Friday!

As for Jeff- "Hear no evil". Although he certainly seems to be thinking about something- maybe the zoo animals?

[Falcon Boy]

Santiago, Dianne Moller, Al Ross and Ed Pitcher with his leucistic tiercel peregrine...
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/556172_514961611855717_2064211543_n.jpg



What's the story with this piebald peregrine? CB or wild taken or? Never seen or heard of this in a peregrine before, kinda neat looking!

[Lowachi]

What's the story with this piebald peregrine? CB or wild taken or? Never seen or heard of this in a peregrine before, kinda neat looking!

Ed said it occasionally happens in cassenis. gets whiter each year. was normal color as immy. just out of the chamber for the year. Think he said it was 3, but could be mistaken.

[Dirthawking]

Not to sure what is actually going on here:


http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/dirthawking/NAFA%202012%20cell%20phone%20pictures/2012-11-22_09-59-48_369.jpg


Brandi and I went shopping for stuff to make her chili. Found this in the meat section. Gee.....

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/dirthawking/NAFA%202012%20cell%20phone%20pictures/2012-11-21_20-29-09_534.jpg

This bird is going to be so confused when it comes time to incubate:

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/dirthawking/NAFA%202012%20cell%20phone%20pictures/2012-11-22_14-46-09_485.jpg

HEHEHEHEHE:

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/dirthawking/NAFA%202012%20cell%20phone%20pictures/2012-11-22_13-43-06_28.jpg

It is not just the birds that enjoy some weathering yard time!

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp128/dirthawking/NAFA%202012%20cell%20phone%20pictures/2012-11-21_16-10-34_968.jpg

[Falcon Boy]

Ed said it occasionally happens in cassenis. gets whiter each year. was normal color as immy. just out of the chamber for the year. Think he said it was 3, but could be mistaken.

Thanks, that makes the whole 'pallid falcon' thing make sense.

[Eagle Owl]

Sookie in the weathering yard on a block Mario made:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k6/brandi7777/NAFA%202012/photobucket-43745-1354331311202.jpg

Sunrise view from the weathering yard:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k6/brandi7777/NAFA%202012/photobucket-50080-1354331582399.jpg


Sunday at the weathering yard...we weren't even officially open yet!

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k6/brandi7777/NAFA%202012/photobucket-49807-1354331681241.jpg


Me and Mario:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k6/brandi7777/NAFA%202012/photobucket-32727-1354331784810.jpg


Our traditional Thanksgiving lunch!

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k6/brandi7777/NAFA%202012/photobucket-23780-1354331806522.jpg


Best behaved bird at the meet....on a Mario block wearing a Ken Hooke hood.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k6/brandi7777/NAFA%202012/photobucket-28368-1354331822033.jpg

[Chris L.]

Ok I will close this thread now and reopen it once the poll is over.

THank you for all who participated... I look forward to seeing who wins

Good luck

I will post a link to the poll thread once it is completed

[Chris L.]

The Poll is now open

http://www.nafex.net/showthread.php?t=16497