NCFG February meet and pictures 2/16/08

[Chris L.]

Well, I decided to pay the NCFG guys a visit last weekend for their february meet. I got there around 12 so i missed the morning hunts. We hunted that afternoon and I got to see some great sqr flights with wardel ( Fred Frog's rt). He tried hard but didnt put one in the bag, come to find out this was due to a bite he received that may have slowed his foot holds down. It had some amazing flights and worked hard for them.

Also had some great rabbit flights with my harris hawk and a NCFG members harris hawk ( his name is dan, he took us to his honey hole for rabbits.. thanks Dan it was a great spot) We flew them in a cast. My harris was not to pleased to be flying in the cast as he wanted to be Alpha male... But all in all we had around 6 great rabbit flights. Once my harris was so close you could here the silence.. the ho ho hoing stopped as every one was watching in anticipation for the rabbit squeal but he couldn't seal the deal as the rabbit ran under some hay bales frus

All the flights from both the Rt's and harris were fantastic and really makes me see why i love this sport so much

Well with out making you read my banter any more.. here are the pics

here is the gang walking to the woods for some sqr action
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0382.jpg

A GHO that someone was rehabbing

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0376.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0378.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0377.jpg

Wardel in action.. man he gave the bushy tails hell in those woods! He needs to be in a circus.. some of the flights are upside down !!!!

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0393.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0394.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0395.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0396.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0399.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0402.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0413.jpg

[Chris L.]

bailing out!!!

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0421.jpg

Maybe not!
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0423.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0424.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0425.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0426.jpg

our host doing what he does best crazyy

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0433.jpg




thanks again the the NCFG.. I had a blast!

[jfneumann57]

Hey there's me and my pre-apprentice.:D

[kimmerar]

Nice pics Chris. Wow - can't believe that RT didn't catch a squirrel. I love watching squirrel hawking. Sure gets exciting - even with nothing in the bag.

[Chris L.]

Nice pics Chris. Wow - can't believe that RT didn't catch a squirrel. I love watching squirrel hawking. Sure gets exciting - even with nothing in the bag.

Kim,
Thanks, it is amazing to see what your eyes miss.

yeah he had a pretty bad bite on his feet, i think this hindered him a lot.

[Jimmy]

Once my harris was so close you could here the silence.. the ho ho hoing stopped as every one was watching in anticipation for the rabbit squeal but he couldn't seal the deal as the rabbit ran under some hay bales frus



That's because it wasn't white or winged ....... toungeout

[Chris L.]

That's because it wasn't white or winged ....... toungeout

(dog)....LOl.. come on man :eek:..

[Jimmy]

Maybe you should try him on "beach" bunnies.......:D

[Chris L.]

Maybe you should try him on "beach" bunnies.......:D

LOL...hmmmm, if there was only a season for them confuseddamennn.

[everetkhorton]

Chris;
Thanks for posting some great shots. Look like everyone had a great time. I thought beach bunnies were fair game anytime. At least for you young guy's toungeout

[wesleyc6]

Great pics Chris!!!!

Did you see my female Harris hawk the Bobby Crandall has?

[Chris L.]

Ev,
the beach bunnies we are talking about have wings... oh you are right the other bunnies are fair game for sure beeer

Wes,
No didn't get to meet him. We had 2 groups that went out. The only harris's that flew was mine and Dan's. I was looking though!!

[FredFogg]

Chris,

Those are really great! Turns out, Wordell's toe is broken, so he is done for the season. He caught a squirrel that morning, so the afternoon would have been a double if had been able to hold on. I think he probably hurt his toe when he tried to slam that one squirrel at the base of that one tree that was surrounded by rocks. He must have hit one of those rocks. Oh well, squirrel hawking is full of danger, but man is it fun. He ended the season with 41 squirrels and 3 rabbits. The worse season since my apprentice years, but still not a bad season. I have to take into account that I went on vacation for a week two times during the season, so he missed a couple weeks in there, along with getting back into the game when I got back. Again, thanks for the great pics. I hope you don't mind if I use them and add them to my collection.

Wes,

Bobby wasn't at this meet. There were a couple of other guys with Harris's, but we didn't get out with them.

[Lee Slikkers]

Killer pics!!!


Sorry to hear of the RT's broken toe....that stinks

[FredFogg]

Killer pics!!!


Sorry to hear of the RT's broken toe....that stinks

Yeah, it stinks, but it is all part of falconry. The last 2 years, at the end of the season, I have had my red-tail get hurt. I may change my schedule next year and not fly every single day. I often wonder if I just wear them out and this is causing them to not be at their best and thus, the injuries. I think I am going to try and give them a day off every 3 days next year and see how that works out. Not many folks can really say they fly their birds every single day, but I actually do. Now wondering if it is a good thing or a bad thing!

[Lee Slikkers]

that might be an interesting thought...I had my RT break her wing last year (I alos fly them every day) but I would probably lean towards it simply being a tough break and part of hunting them hard in a falconry situation.

[wesleyc6]

Yeah, it stinks, but it is all part of falconry. The last 2 years, at the end of the season, I have had my red-tail get hurt. I may change my schedule next year and not fly every single day. I often wonder if I just wear them out and this is causing them to not be at their best and thus, the injuries. I think I am going to try and give them a day off every 3 days next year and see how that works out. Not many folks can really say they fly their birds every single day, but I actually do. Now wondering if it is a good thing or a bad thing!

I fly mine 6-7days a week. I haven't had any problems I thought came from that. I had one RT get a career ending bite. The other health issues I have had came from frounce and a dirty pigeon. Other than that, not much issue. I do have to say that I don't usually fly on Sundays though.

[Chris L.]

Chris,

Those are really great! Turns out, Wordell's toe is broken, so he is done for the season.

yeah i figured it was. When i looked at it I said it was. It was just too unstable to be dislocated or a tendon injury.. Sorry to hear that

[Chris L.]

I often wonder if I just wear them out and this is causing them to not be at their best and thus, the injuries. I think I am going to try and give them a day off every 3 days next year and see how that works out.

I think birds do need rest.. one to build muscle. I know some may disagree, but falconers need to let their birds rest. All muslce, tendons, bone needs time to heal and grow to regain the strength and vigor it needs to hold onto a fighting squirrel.. if you are abusing it everyday and flying at top performance with low reserves, muscle and bone will break down to fuel the muscles you keep using.. this will increase your chances of the bird getting hurt for sure.

just my thoughts on rest from a physiological approach... hey what the hell do i know crazyy

[wesleyc6]

I think birds do need rest.. one to build muscle. I know some may disagree, but falconers need to let their birds rest. All muslce, tendons, bone needs time to heal and grow to regain the strength and vigor it needs to hold onto a fighting squirrel.. if you are abusing it everyday and flying at top performance with low reserves, muscle and bone will break down to fuel the muscles you keep using.. this will increase your chances of the bird getting hurt for sure.

just my thoughts on rest from a physiological approach... hey what the hell do i know crazyy


I would agree with you for sure in human terms because we REALLY can blast our muscles in a 2 hour workout, but I just don't know how hard we can really push our birds in a short period of time. I know on a good day, I hunt my bird about 1/12 of a day. Lots of the hunt is spent sitting or riding. That leaves 11/12ths to rest and usually an off day on Sunday. I do try to feed up any day I know I can't hunt to give them a little extra to work with. Flying on the "edge" with little break, will get you mid winter anemia or so they say. It is good food for thought though and am glad you guys posted on this.

[Chris L.]

I would agree with you for sure in human terms because we REALLY can blast our muscles in a 2 hour workout, but I just don't know how hard we can really push our birds in a short period of time. I know on a good day, I hunt my bird about 1/12 of a day. Lots of the hunt is spent sitting or riding. That leaves 11/12ths to rest and usually an off day on Sunday. I do try to feed up any day I know I can't hunt to give them a little extra to work with. Flying on the "edge" with little break, will get you mid winter anemia or so they say. It is good food for thought though and am glad you guys posted on this.

Wes, I agree this is great info to think about and at least go over in ones head when you think the bird just "sucks" maybe you need to let him rest a little and give him a break.

here is a little more to gnaw on:
Birds muscle is designed a lot different than humans so we can do longer work out and not burn ourselves out as quick as a bird can and here is why:

Birds have a differnt ratio of muscle twitch fibers than human do. Humans have a 50/50 mix of slow twitch( aerobic muscle fibers, use fat for energy) and fast twitch (anaerobic )muscle fibers. The flight muscles of a bird are of necessity mostly all fast-twitch fibers. A sample of 30 bird muscle fibers, 18 are anaerobic fast-twitch, with the anaerobic fibers being five to nine times larger than the aerobic fibers. They do short burst.. which as we know is anaerobic metabolism ( fast twitch)... anaerobic metabolism uses more energy stores because those muscle fibers dont use fat as an energy source and creates a lot more toxic metabolites ( 0ne being lactic acid, this is what causes the burn in your muscles when you work out).. so if you are low.. Where does this energy come from If you dont have any gas in the tank or keep using the gas you have to rebuild muscle and bone?.. well, the birds muscles will break down.. So the more short hard flight= more energy burned and wasted= your hawk gets fatigued very quickly and their muscles breaks down quicker. So you need to rebuild the muscle with a few day rest and good food as they will break that muscle back down again. It can be a slippery slope once it gets started.

in summery, a little science will brighten your day confusedd.. wait what the hell was i talking about.. I am confused

[Saluqi]

Cool pictures Chris, great to see squirrel hawking, not a form of the sport easily practiced out here!!

[wesleyc6]

Wes, I agree this is great info to think about and at least go over in ones head when you think the bird just "sucks" maybe you need to let him rest a little and give him a break.

here is a little more to gnaw on:
Birds muscle is designed a lot different than humans so we can do longer work out and not burn ourselves out as quick as a bird can and here is why:

Birds have a differnt ratio of muscle twitch fibers than human do. Humans have a 50/50 mix of slow twitch( aerobic muscle fibers, use fat for energy) and fast twitch (anaerobic )muscle fibers. The flight muscles of a bird are of necessity mostly all fast-twitch fibers. A sample of 30 bird muscle fibers, 18 are anaerobic fast-twitch, with the anaerobic fibers being five to nine times larger than the aerobic fibers. They do short burst.. which as we know is anaerobic metabolism ( fast twitch)... anaerobic metabolism uses more energy stores because those muscle fibers dont use fat as an energy source and creates a lot more toxic metabolites ( 0ne being lactic acid, this is what causes the burn in your muscles when you work out).. so if you are low.. Where does this energy come from If you dont have any gas in the tank or keep using the gas you have to rebuild muscle and bone?.. well, the birds muscles will break down.. So the more short hard flight= more energy burned and wasted= your hawk gets fatigued very quickly and their muscles breaks down quicker. So you need to rebuild the muscle with a few day rest and good food as they will break that muscle back down again. It can be a slippery slope once it gets started.

in summery, a little science will brighten your day confusedd.. wait what the hell was i talking about.. I am confused

You are confused?.............there weren't enough cartoon pictures for me to understand it. Just messin' with ya. I like that info. It would make perfect sense for the mid winter anemia bit that some people experience. I saw Daniel get tired twice on the low end of his hunting scale. It is how I knew to raise him up. Once you get a bird really rolling, it is so easy to understand what is going on in one. If Daniel wouldn't hunt, there were problems to be solved. lol

[Chris L.]

Wes, i can see the anemia being an issue for sure.. if that happens watch out for sure. You dont have any box cars ( RBC's) to carry the o2 to the muscle, plus o2 helps break down lactic acid in the liver so with low o2 in the blood the lactic acid hangs around and will kill your bird.. great point with anemia

good information being talked here. Thanks for participating, i enjoy this kind of stuff

[cbdfox]

I am not as educated as chris L here on the biology of a bird. ( its clear chris knows what he is talking about)
but i completely agree with the feed up and rest. every few days. and this is what i do.

I work days in a job with a constantly shifting schedule. somedays in the winter when work is slow i work only a few hours and others like fridays especially i could work 16-20hr straight. so i dont know if i will have time to hunt the next day and have to try and guess. i hunt both days on the weekends. then feed the hawk up and store some extra weight if i know i wont hunt for a day or two. then i start bringing weight down by decreasing ration before hunting day. during the week i fly my Goshawk a little heavy 10-20g to give me cushion if i dont get off of work. the Imprint still flies great.

I cant always practice 22hr weight control because of long days working. so what i do is plan weight managment so that my hawk is overwight slightly the night before hunting. then i under feed or dont feed. so that when the morning comes 12hrs later the hawk has lost weight. and the mutes are green.

in my experience this is not as good as 22hr weight control. but it still results in a Keen Goshawk. maybe you guys (chris and wes) could shed a little more light on what i am doing and weather its a good method?

by the way Chris thos are some great photos. i especially enjoyed the squirrel shots. I dont get to see that much out here. i cant think of any Squirrel hawkers in OR.

[Chris L.]

Chris,
thank you for the compliments on the pictures.. I enjoy taking them. It is a a lot of fun to see what you captured when you get home.

I think any rest is good a full day even better in my opionion.. but some dont and it works for them. I am just putting some info out there so others can read it and maybe turn it around in their heads for a while. What your doing works and shows a great looking hawk that is a killer and works hard for you. I think it shows that what you are doing works as you have a consistent hawk that hunts hard and takes game when presented to them and they look great. I think that is the ultimate test if you have a well managed bird. I am no expert by any means, but what I do makes sense in my head and works for my birds.

thanks for sharing how you do your regiment. I think it is great to hear how others prepare and fly their birds.

[...and a girl]

thanks Chris.

[cbdfox]

darn i did it again.

thats supposed to be me frustrating.

I go back to the messages from my emails i get. and the computer logs me in as Sabrina. then i forget to check how i am logged in before responding.

DOH!

[Chris L.]

darn i did it again.

thats supposed to be me frustrating.

I go back to the messages from my emails i get. and the computer logs me in as Sabrina. then i forget to check how i am logged in before responding.

DOH!

HMMMM is Sabrina your alter ego.. damn meds.. where are Chris's meds.. anyone anyone crazyy