New York Master Falconer Upgrade

[NYRedtailfalconer]

The requirements to upgrade from general to master falconer have changed recently. I have not seen these new changes posted anywhere, so I will post them here.
Here are the regulations that have been basically standard.

173.2
(6) Master Falconry license. Master falconers must:
(i) have at least five years of experience in the practice of falconry as a licensed General falconer or the equivalent; and
(ii) have possessed a raptor for at least 3 years of the time specified in subparagraph (i) of this paragraph; and
(iii) provide written recommendations for advancement to the Master license from three Master falconers who have evaluated the General falconer in the field to ascertain the candidate's level of proficiency in the sport of falconry and the skill and ability in the care of raptors commensurate with the activities and responsibilities of a Master falconer; and
(iv) be approved, in writing, for advancement to the Master license by the Falconry Advisory Board.

The falconry advisory board has added their own requirements now. I’m not sure where the legal authority to do this lies, but they will not upgrade you and will consider your request denied unless your written recommendations include “detailed descriptions” of the following:

• The species of raptor(s) the general falconer has flown
• The appearance and general heath of the raptors in the general falconer’s care
• A description of the raptor handling skills of the general falconer
• The ability/success rate of the general falconer’s raptors to take wild quarry
• The apparent dedication of the general falconer to the raptors in their care and to the sport of falconry.

[keitht]

The falconry advisory board has added their own requirements now. I’m not sure where the legal authority to do this lies, but they will not upgrade you and will consider your request denied unless your written recommendations include “detailed descriptions” of the following:

• The species of raptor(s) the general falconer has flown
• The appearance and general heath of the raptors in the general falconer’s care
• A description of the raptor handling skills of the general falconer
• The ability/success rate of the general falconer’s raptors to take wild quarry
• The apparent dedication of the general falconer to the raptors in their care and to the sport of falconry.

Any state can add rules (be more restrictive.) They cannot be less restrictive. Points 2,3,4 and 5 above sounds like it depends a lot on how you write the report.

[MrBill]

I think these regs are deplorable. I'm gland I don't live in NY. Did the falconry community resist them?

Bill Boni

[ice]

Chris
I think the advisory board is just looking for a more indepth letter (more personable) than some of the ones they had gotten in the past.
I have done several upgrades in the past and never had a letter returned or had that falconer denied BUT others have had.
They just want more than one sentence on a piece of paper that's all.

[NYRedtailfalconer]

Thanks Alan..All of my letters are very much in depth. I sent all my upgrade paperwork in about the beginning of November. I have just gotten the letter and a note saying I need my letters to conform with the new stipulations for an upgrade. BTW... I have been a falconer since 2002, but I held off on my Master upgrade until I had my own home and felt comfortable with being able to have more than 2 raptors on my permit. I have a letter from the Vice President of the NYS Falconers Association and 2 other highly respected falconers. BUT, the state kicked back my upgrade because my letters didn't include what birds I have possessed over the years.

[ice]

I'm sorry to hear that Kris, sounds to me like you did all the right things (go figure)frus)

[NYRedtailfalconer]

I just sent back a summary and have been in contact with the falconers who wrote me upgrade letters and they all feel their letters are more than adequate. Hopefully this situation is resolved soon. I've been a general since 2004 and have caught a ton of game with all sorts of birds including a passage goshawk and many passage red tails. Sooner or later I'll get the upgrade, but I just wanted to make it known of what is now required for other falconers seeking an upgrade.

[Mike Oettinger]

I haven`t paid much attention on who is on the falconry advisory board. Paul K. is a falconer and some others are well qualified vets and rehabbers. It has been awhile since I was upgraded but I included all that additional info in my request. Not to mention I have hawked with Paul no less than 50 times over the years. I talked to Paul about this additional requirements at the tail end of last season and Paul said they wanted more than just a short letter. Something I always tell my new apprentices is to get involved in the falconry community. Get out there and hawk with everyone. This is the way you learn. Kris we`ve met and hawked with some of the same falconers. Just include the additional info and you should get things moving./ Mike

[keitht]

Like I said, it's all how you write the report. Go out and find an unemployed English major. (They're all unemployed) Have them write it. Here's just an example:

• A description of the raptor handling skills of the general falconer.


While a mere apprentice, I carried my bird as a Neanderthal. The bird looked towards me in hateful stares. She bated upon my approach. My sponsor would scream loudly and curse my very birth as he explained to me the secrets of handling the bird. Slowly but surely, I too developed the gentle touch of a master falconer.
Now, I have only the highest of handling skills. I, in a gentle motion, advance the garnished glove towards the bird. The glove has been carefully cleaned and oiled and she knows it well. It is the darling of her longing eyes. She lovingly steps forward to meet my advance. As we walk away, the gloved hand is ever so carefully raised and lowed to counteract the ups and downs and bounces of my gait. So much so that though my head and body sways and jolts, the bird ride as smooth as butter that runneth off a hot griddle. I thoughtfully keep my stare from meeting hers so that she neither feels threatened by my gaze nor sickened by my awful breath. As I set her down on her perch (that I have carefully and lovingly wrapped to prevent bruising of the foot pads) I am sure not to hover over her in such a way that she might think bold or brazen.
If we walk in the sun or rain, I carefully hold an umbrella, to keep the cruel elements off my charge. If the cold wind blows or the weather seem cold, I hold her near to my bosom so that my warmth spread over her as a welcoming warm blanket. Finally, we reach the inviting and well-prepared mews where she is delicately set down. This is the place where she feels at home and will spend the night longingly awaiting the sounds of my approaching footsteps after a long night's separation.

[Yeomanfalconer]

Like I said, it's all how you write the report. Go out and find an unemployed English major. (They're all unemployed) Have them write it. Here's just an example:

• A description of the raptor handling skills of the general falconer.


While a mere apprentice, I carried my bird as a Neanderthal. The bird looked towards me in hateful stares. She bated upon my approach. My sponsor would scream loudly and curse my very birth as he explained to me the secrets of handling the bird. Slowly but surely, I too developed the gentle touch of a master falconer.
Now, I have only the highest of handling skills. I, in a gentle motion, advance the garnished glove towards the bird. The glove has been carefully cleaned and oiled and she knows it well. It is the darling of her longing eyes. She lovingly steps forward to meet my advance. As we walk away, the gloved hand is ever so carefully raised and lowed to counteract the ups and downs and bounces of my gait. So much so that though my head and body sways and jolts, the bird ride as smooth as butter that runneth off a hot griddle. I thoughtfully keep my stare from meeting hers so that she neither feels threatened by my gaze nor sickened by my awful breath. As I set her down on her perch (that I have carefully and lovingly wrapped to prevent bruising of the foot pads) I am sure not to hover over her in such a way that she might think bold or brazen.
If we walk in the sun or rain, I carefully hold an umbrella, to keep the cruel elements off my charge. If the cold wind blows or the weather seem cold, I hold her near to my bosom so that my warmth spread over her as a welcoming warm blanket. Finally, we reach the inviting and well-prepared mews where she is delicately set down. This is the place where she feels at home and will spend the night longingly awaiting the sounds of my approaching footsteps after a long night's separation.

Keith,
My brother, we have never met,though I have been able to critizyise you for years., to accept you, how is it done?
Someone tells me they have a pair of Harris Hawks that will fly crows in the night, how can I be sure? I want to scare these crows. Should I go with this option or wait for better stock ? This year may be the make or break year.

[NYRedtailfalconer]

It's not me that has to write that report. It is the people writing the letters of recommendation.

[NYRedtailfalconer]

I haven`t paid much attention on who is on the falconry advisory board. Paul K. is a falconer and some others are well qualified vets and rehabbers. It has been awhile since I was upgraded but I included all that additional info in my request. Not to mention I have hawked with Paul no less than 50 times over the years. I talked to Paul about this additional requirements at the tail end of last season and Paul said they wanted more than just a short letter. Something I always tell my new apprentices is to get involved in the falconry community. Get out there and hawk with everyone. This is the way you learn. Kris we`ve met and hawked with some of the same falconers. Just include the additional info and you should get things moving./ Mike

Hey Mike! Yea I called Paul today. I know there is a vet from up past Albany on there too. I've hawked with a ton of people, but the State decided to sit on my paperwork for about 4 months before sending me back what additional info they wanted. We will have to hook up and do some hawking. I'm flying a passage gos from off the ridge, and I have a merlin and a RT from another falconer you just helped out with a kestrel.

[Mike Oettinger]

Yup, small world. I was on the phone with NY the other day because my sons permit and mine still don`t register on the fed website. NY is blaming the feds/feds blaming NY. Sooner or later they will get it right./ Mike

[cvandermerwe]

The falconry advisory board has added their own requirements now. I’m not sure where the legal authority to do this lies, but they will not upgrade you and will consider your request denied unless your written recommendations include “detailed descriptions” of the following:

• The species of raptor(s) the general falconer has flown
• The appearance and general heath of the raptors in the general falconer’s care
• A description of the raptor handling skills of the general falconer
• The ability/success rate of the general falconer’s raptors to take wild quarry
• The apparent dedication of the general falconer to the raptors in their care and to the sport of falconry.

A good example of uncommonly stupid regulations. The latter 4 of those items are absolutely, 100% perception based items. I really like the last one..."apparent dedication of the general falconer to the raptors in their care AND to the sport of falconry"!!!! I mean really, what the hell does that mean? How do you quantify something like that? More importantly, someone is charged with the decision of who gets to be a master falconer...hate to see what you have to prove to become a general falconer! It's really not funny however, if you think about it. I mean really sit and think about it for a few minutes. In what other hunting sport regulated in the USA today do you have to prove yourself by way of your peers in order to move up? The answer is simple, NONE.

I am sorry that someone thought at some point in time that was a good idea. I have a sneaking suspicion that it could very easily have been a falconer(s). It is not uncommon for the idea to be brought up that we regulate our own. A small minority will decide that they know best when someone can "advance" (a truly pompous and asinine thought really). It is sad, but it is not an unfamiliar drum beat. I hope you get your upgrade sans any more trouble.

Off topic slightly, Ross Dirks once asked me a very good question during a phone conversation we had late one night...."what the hell is a "master" falconer anyway?" The context was that maybe it got you laid more often or maybe some other magical benefits. I had a great laugh that night and I still find myself chuckling to that question a lot. For the record, I know you have to be a master falconer for some birds, etc. etc. It's just a bit ironic really, what IS a "master" falconer really? LOL...see, even writing it cracks me up! :)

Good luck,

[beldinrt]

Let me say right off that I do not think I have met Kris and from the people he has mentioned that have written him a recommendation to become a Master Falconer he surely must deserve it for I know them and they would not write a recommendation other wise. I would also be pissed off if the state sat on it for that amount of time without getting back to me about an issue with my upgrade. But as for the new upgrade procedure I really do not see an issue with it. In order to go from apprentice to general your sponsor and one other master or general falconer has to write a letter basically answering the same questions. So why should these questions not be asked again when going to Master? Does not being a master have more meaning than being able to have more birds? It think should. As for the new procedure that was put in place by both the state falconry board and our state falconry association president, vice president ( one of his letter writers ) and the board of directors. They simply wanted more than " yeah he's a good guy, I think he should be a master falconer". I know this because it had been discussed at, at least two board meetings held at the state field meets with no objections to it from the 50 plus falconers in attendance. As for the falconry board it has been completely revamped in the last few years with many new members. The vet you refereed to is DR. Joy Lucas of the Upstate Animal Center in Saratoga, NY. She specializes in exotics and is very falconer friendly. Kris I hope you get your upgrade soon. I know this crap can be frustrating. I just think you had the misfortune of send in your paperwork when the state was putting the new regs in place.

As for getting on the federal data base, it is most likely the states fault. Several weeks ago I tried to log in to register my new Harris Hawk and could not. What I wound up doing was calling the federal migratory bird department in Washington ( actually Virginia ). I can not remember the name of the man I talked to there but he was able to go into the system and check my status. It showed that I had an expired license because the state had not updated their information with the feds when the new regs took affect. I would try there to find out the true problem. Do not call Hadely MA. they have nothing to do about the reporting system.

I am not saying our state system is good or bad. It is what it is for now. But I am curious, for all of you falconers from other states that find this so awful. What is your states procedure for upgrading to Master? I would like to see the difference.

[rkumetz]

I am with CJ here. Whether their intentions were good or not is irrelevant. Not only are the requirements less than concrete they require you to have an active social circle of friends. I live over 3 hours from the nearest falconer. I never get the chance to go hunting with any of the handful of falconers in my state. Under those requirements I would have moved here as a general and never been able to upgrade regardless of my skill level or dedication to the cause.

I agree that the system where you automatically upgrade after a few years is flawed however a system which prevents you from upgrading no matter how skilled or dedicated you are is equally if not more flawed.

[keitht]

I am not saying our state system is good or bad. It is what it is for now. But I am curious, for all of you falconers from other states that find this so awful. What is your states procedure for upgrading to Master? I would like to see the difference.

I believe most states will be more like Missouri's:

(C) Master Class—A permittee shall have at least five (5) years’ experience in falconry at the general class level.....

When you have your 5 years of general, your next permit issued will be Master.

No system is perfect. But having a state agency decide if your talents are deserving of "general" or "master" based on subjective standards, is inherently a bad system. State agencies know little to nothing about falconry.

[Tom Scheib]

In 2010 I considered relocating to the Hamburg NY area, was in contact with several NY falconers, kept calling the numbers they provided, left numerous messages, but never got a return call. I realized it was tough times for the bureaucrats and I decided against transfering my falconry lic to NY. The NY falconers I met were helpful and to this day I believe a nicer guy than Joel Thomas would be hard to find. I believe the way the state of NY does business is restrictive across the board and not limited to falconry. I won't try to judge their upgrade requirements.............I learned some time ago....When in Rome..........

[Mike Oettinger]

Well just as you think things are bad enough here in NY be thankfull you don`t live in CT. (I can hear all you CT saying got that right) In CT to get upgraded to General you have to take a written test and do a field trial and be judged by several Master falconers. Of course CT doesn`t have any Master falconers so 10 Master falconers (myself included) came up one day several years ago to judge the first round of CT apprentices to General. CT can`t even trap in their own state. (real kick in the butt) Wonder what you have to do to be a Master when that time comes? (A letter from God)As far as what it means to be a Master Falconer, since my son and I are both falconers so between the 2 of us we were able to keep 4 birds and there was no real hurry to upgrade. When I did finally decide to upgrade the falconry advisory board was lacking the # of members so I had to wait 2 years till they brought it up to regulation #. My son still is happy enough to be a General after 12 years. We haven't put any birds on my sons permit for a couple of years to reduce the paperwork. (Haven`t needed to) When he sent in his year end report he signed it and attached a note saying he hadn`t hunted and had no birds. They sent it back and said fill in the 2 lines which showed he had no birds. How lame is that./ Well it is what we have to do if we want to be in this sport. I actually ran into a guy hunting an imprint Goshawk in the field that never had a license as well as many people who had at one time rts that they pulled from nests. / Mike

[Squirrelhawkin]

Mike, you're right about CT. When someone asks us what the first thing to do to get started in falconry we tell them to move!
I was in that first group of apprentices to get upgraded,thanks again to you and the other NY,Mass and RI guys that showed up to help,we all really appreciated it. I can go for my master test now,but don't see any need for it. I don't have the time to fly the number of birds I'm allowed as a general.
My favorite thing I've ever heard about "Masters" is in one of Mike McDermott's books. It said something like, if you ever meet a falconer who introduces themselves as "master falconer " whoever, the best thing you can do is turn around and run away!!!! LOL!!!

[gos'n]

Yup, small world. I was on the phone with NY the other day because my sons permit and mine still don`t register on the fed website. NY is blaming the feds/feds blaming NY. Sooner or later they will get it right./ Mike

So, NY is suppose to finally be set up for online reporting?

[gos'n]

So, NY is suppose to finally be set up for online reporting?

Sorry, should have read farther along.

[Mike Oettinger]

Supposed to be, but only a few have cut through the red tape and gotten it done. I have nothing to report w.a.-3-186a right now so it isn`t a priority. The guys who had something to report were forced to make calls to get it done. Here in NY you need to make sure you make copys of everything because things get lost over there./ Mike

[rkumetz]

It said something like, if you ever meet a falconer who introduces themselves as "master falconer " whoever, the best thing you can do is turn around and run away!!!! LOL!!!

The real mark of a master falconer is knowing that there is a lot that you don't know and that you will never actually master anything. It is a journey not a destination.

[beldinrt]

I believe most states will be more like Missouri's:

(C) Master Class—A permittee shall have at least five (5) years’ experience in falconry at the general class level.....

When you have your 5 years of general, your next permit issued will be Master.

No system is perfect. But having a state agency decide if your talents are deserving of "general" or "master" based on subjective standards, is inherently a bad system. State agencies know little to nothing about falconry.

New York may be to the other extreme but, Missouri's way is like graduating a kid from High School just because he was there without testing to see if he can read. You can have a falconer that has had the same RT for 7 years ( 2 apprentice/ 5 general ) and may not of even taken it out of the mew for the last 4 years to hunt it automatically upgrade to Master. It may be just me and I may be upsetting people by saying this but, I have an issue with that. If someone is a true Master carpenter it means something and you have been judged by your peers to achieve it. The falconry community tends to hold itself above other hunting sports and rightly so, due to what you have to do just to become a general falconer and how we police ourselves. So how can you trivialize becoming a Master Falconer. Also in NY a state agency does not determine who becomes a Master Falconer. The Falconry board does. Which is a voluntary position. There are one or two people who work for the state on it but, most are made up of falconers and people how understand falconry. Such as Dr. Lucas. I agree this would not work in some states like VT and CT but NY has a lot of Master Falconers to draw from. Like everything in life somewhere in the middle is probably the answer. One other thing I want to say is that my opinion is not one of a Master Falconer. I have been a general for 10 years and I am considering upgrading to master. If I do I will have to go through all of this red tape also.

[keitht]

Missouri adapted the federal regs basically as it was written and painstakingly drawn out by the feds, falconers and NAFA.

Don't get too hung up on the term "Master Falconer." I guarantee you, anyone that claims he's one isn't.

[JRedig]

The title system with falconry is laughable on it's best day. Much more appropriate to label it as class I, II and III as many states do. Even then, it's just a measure of how many birds you can have and limited time in practice, whoopdeedo.

[cvandermerwe]

The title system with falconry is laughable on it's best day. Much more appropriate to label it as class I, II and III as many states do. Even then, it's just a measure of how many birds you can have and limited time in practice, whoopdeedo.

I agree with the class permit, makes a lot more sense to call it that at the very least. Our DNR officer here in IA works closely with the loose organization we have and I am sure if someone had concerns about an upgrade he would check it out personally. Here's our regs:

Master falconer.
An applicant shall have at least five years of field experience in the practice of falconry at the general level or its equivalent. The keeping of raptors without actively hunting the bird(s) shall not be considered field experience. A master falconer shall possess no more than five raptors at any one time and be permitted to take no more than two replacement birds from the wild in any 12-month period. Master class falconers may purchase properly marked captive-bred raptors only from federally licensed raptor propagators.

It does appear to me that the folks that live in CT are taking it in the rear....six ways from Sunday with no lube. I am truly sorry your falconry is being so repressed.

Regards,

[roscogruen]

Is there a serious problem with irresponsible people getting master falconry licenses? or is there someone trying to limit the number of master falconers? possibly someone profiting from being one of the few master falconers? these reg's point only either of the two

what will happen when a few members of the falconry advisory board don't get along with the falconers writing the recommendations or the falconer himself/herself? (like that never happens).

either this world is becoming worse daily or I'm becoming more naive. probably better to pretend it is the latter.

it is good to be a falconer in Texas. sorry you have to go through all that.

[skooky20]

the reason for the change in standards for the letters is to keep the pet keepers from becoming master or even general, if they can not prove they are flying there birds then why upgrade them. Back even five years ago letters said, hey this is a good guy make him a master. now they want to know who you are and what you have done, as long as the letters meet the requirements no one is denied, the board only meets a few times a year so it takes a while to get an upgrade.

[Mike Oettinger]

Chris is that the way it is now that the new regs have taken place that they only meet a few times a year? Perhaps it was just because they were working to get the regs in place but at the time I talked to Paul they were meeting once a month. Actually when you think about having a group of professional volunteer board members located through out the state (and there can be quite a distance from one end of the state to the other) that is a lot to ask of them to meet monthly. I can say this because I have seen a lot of falconers come and go in the sport. Not everyone continues there interest in falconry. You have to respect the people that still go out and hunt regularly even after 40 or so years in the sport. As a sponsor you dedicate your time teaching etc. and many drop out in time. Sure everyone you meet looking for sponsorship is gun ho to start but not everyone stays that way. A letter for upgrade should be like a resume of your past./ Mike

[Tom Scheib]

Mike, Here in Florida the incentive to become a "master falconer" is so you can trap and fly a kestrel. Other than having more birds and facilities, is there another incentive in NY?

[rkumetz]

the reason for the change in standards for the letters is to keep the pet keepers from becoming master or even general, if they can not prove they are flying there birds then why upgrade them. Back even five years ago letters said, hey this is a good guy make him a master. now they want to know who you are and what you have done, as long as the letters meet the requirements no one is denied, the board only meets a few times a year so it takes a while to get an upgrade.

Well that is kind of silly isn't it? Why does the board have to actually meet to accept "credentials" for an upgrade? My fire dept executive board makes major decisions by email and it is a lot less taxing on our time than the option of having to trudge down to the station for a meeting.

[goshawkr]

Mike, Here in Florida the incentive to become a "master falconer" is so you can trap and fly a kestrel. Other than having more birds and facilities, is there another incentive in NY?

Are you serious? Kestrels are master only in FL?? crazyy

Wow, FL just went off my list of possible states to live in. Oh wait, it never was on there to begin with. Never mind......

[Mike Oettinger]

Tom there probably is but I never looked into it. Perhaps another NY falconer can chime in on this. The thing realisticly that limits how many birds I fly is the amount of game I have available. There was a time when I pulled into a hunting spot with a dog and 3 giant hoods. One kill for each bird and I called it a day. As I have gotten older these days its more often the dog and one giant hood. And I still come home with 3 or 4 in the game bag. And it is not with a Goshawk.toungeout Just a plain and simple RT. BTW I do have a goshawk also.peacee/ Mike

[Tom Scheib]

Mike, I feel pretty much like you.........it's much more difficult to get around for me now than it used to be and I'm happy for the birds to take squirrels and rabbits which seem plentiful and available.

Geoff, I'm a snow bird and the truth is it's much easier and convenient to hunt here in Florida this time of year than in WI & MN where I came from. Although I've only been out with falconers hunting ducks with peregine, and rabbits and squirrels with RT & HH, I'm told there are some gos falconers in the area. I'll let a native Floridian explain the science behind restricting kestrel trapping. Best wishes to you both.

[NYRedtailfalconer]

the reason for the change in standards for the letters is to keep the pet keepers from becoming master or even general, if they can not prove they are flying there birds then why upgrade them. Back even five years ago letters said, hey this is a good guy make him a master. now they want to know who you are and what you have done, as long as the letters meet the requirements no one is denied, the board only meets a few times a year so it takes a while to get an upgrade.


There are unfortunately a lot of "pet keepers" in the sport. I know of at least 2 apprentices this year who have no intention of hunting. I should post my upgrade letters. 2 of 3 are about a page long, the last one is shorter but very much to the point. Even before we knew of these new requirements, my letters cover everything BUT what birds I have had over the years. It would have been nice however to receive something from the state outlining the new requirements. I don't do falconry meets. I would rather go out a field I know with a few friends than spend money on lodging and travel expenses just to hawk, but it has been said now that the state talked about it at the NY meet. So, if you don't go the meet, you have no idea about what is going on. My upgrade request was received in the DEC office well before the meet as well.

.

[NYRedtailfalconer]

Mike, Here in Florida the incentive to become a "master falconer" is so you can trap and fly a kestrel. Other than having more birds and facilities, is there another incentive in NY?

No real "incentive" unless you want to have more birds (which for me, 3 is more than enough). With the new regs, Masters Falconers can have up to 13 raptors, 5 of which are wild caught. AND... If you have the cash, and the habitat to fly one..a Steller's Sea Eagle and/or a White-Tailed Eagle. (With additional letters of recommendation for an eagle authorization)
*Although Masters are now able to have 13 raptors, the regs do state each bird must be trained "in the pursuit of wild game and use them in hunting." I'm not sure I know anybody who could accomplish that.

[roscogruen]

must one be a master falconer to get an abatement permit?

are falconry advisory board members allowed to have abatement permits? if so, this would lead to conflicts of interest.

could a general falconer in NY file an application towards a master falconer upgrade before the date he/she is eligible?

I saw on a thread an estimate of the number of US falconers and how many of them actually kept birds. If there be a need for a master falconer to be a good falconer there is certainly a need for something discriminatory.