God says: I have not given you a spirit of fear.

[rembrandt]

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[rembrandt]

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[rembrandt]

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[rembrandt]

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[rembrandt]

in god we trustamennn

[SGC]

in god we trustamennn

AMEN!

[tony123abc]

Looks like a great time was had bay all. Good pics. Thanks. Is the hubara (spelling?) making a good comeback with the captive breeding programs out in your part of the world?

[rembrandt]

Looks like a great time was had bay all. Good pics. Thanks. Is the hubara (spelling?) making a good comeback with the captive breeding programs out in your part of the world?
yes its the right spelling HUBARA ,
u know its really hard to find them now in the middel east even in the season of the hubara

[Bryant Tarr]

No, it is spelled "Houbara" in English. This is a species in trouble and it is hard to justify hunting it...or being proud of hunting it from vehicles.

Check out http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/index.html?action=SpcHTMDetails.asp&sid=2769

I worked at NARC in Abu Dhabi for 3 years breeding these birds.

[Zarafia]

Very beautiful pictures. That white gyr? gyr/saker? is beyond lovely. You can also clearly see how hard the falcons are flying to take hubara.
Living here, I have never had the pleasure of seeing a real hubara in real life. They must surely be a challenging quarry and I have read that there is much meat on them. Do you eat the hubara you take? I know it is a silly question, but what do they taste like? Do they have white meat and dark meat?
Lastly, we have asked you before, please sign your name to your posts?
Your photos are magnificent, but please respect the rules here.

[wyodjm]

[IMG] God says: I have not given you a spirit of fear.

Great pictures.

Your Biblical reference, a little out of context.

Good hawking,

Dan McCarron

[Bryant Tarr]

Great pictures.

Your Biblical reference, a little out of context.

2 Timothy 1: 7-8

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Therefore do no be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God.

Good hawking,

Dan McCarron

PLEASE...spare me this crap and keep God out of this thread.

[wyodjm]

PLEASE...spare me this crap and keep God out of this thread.

Hey pard, go look at the thread heading. I didn't start it. Relax.

[Bryant Tarr]

Hey pard, go look at the thread heading. I didn't start it. Relax.

Yes, I see that. Unfortunate and against the rules of the forum...but from here on out maybe we could discuss Houbara and falconry, not who's Bible is correct.

[wyodjm]

Yes, I see that. Unfortunate and against the rules of the forum...but from here on out maybe we could discuss Houbara and falconry, not who's Bible is correct.

No problem. By all means, knock yourself out.

ATB

[Bryant Tarr]

So...Rembrandt, what are the laws pertaining to the hunting of houbara where these photos were taken....and where is that?

[Chris L.]

Thanks guys for keeping it on track. I appreciate you all doing that, thank you!!! amennn

[rembrandt]

Very beautiful pictures. That white gyr? gyr/saker?
Lastly, we have asked you before, please sign your name to your posts?
Your photos are magnificent, but please respect the rules here.
thanx and its pure saker and i will do my signature right now forgive me plz



No, it is spelled "Houbara" in English. This is a species in trouble and it is hard to justify hunting it...or being proud of hunting it from vehicles.

Check out http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/index.html?action=SpcHTMDetails.asp&sid=2769

I worked at NARC in Abu Dhabi for 3 years breeding these birds.

take it easy its only O missing

Great pictures.

Your Biblical reference, a little out of context.

Good hawking,

Dan McCarron
thanx dan


Yes, I see that. Unfortunate and against the rules of the forum...but from here on out maybe we could discuss Houbara and falconry, not who's Bible is correct.
im really sorry if i chose the wrong title
forgive me plz u can change it or delete it i will understand thanx for u all guys

[Zarafia]

Thank you Lure.
That is one stunning saker. I am quite fond of sakers myself. I have known several and have a great liking for them.
But you didn't answer my questions about the houbara? Are they cooked and eaten, or fed to the falcons?
Also, their tailfeathers are lovely, do you save those feathers?
Sorry for all the questions but I am very curious.

[Bryant Tarr]

thanx and its pure saker and i will do my signature right now forgive me plz




take it easy its only O missing

thanx dan


im really sorry if i chose the wrong title
forgive me plz u can change it or delete it i will understand thanx for u all guys

No worries. Just me being overly atheistic. All is forgiven...I just didn't want this to go down the biblical debate road!

[rembrandt]

Thank you Lure.
Are they cooked and eaten, or fed to the falcons?
Also, their tailfeathers are lovely, do you save those feathers?
Sorry for all the questions but I am very curious.

ur welcome Meridith, dont be sorry u can ask me any thing and i will do my best to answer u,
about the hubara yes some peopel here eat it but for me and my family we feed them to the falcons
and their tail feathers r really magnificent i have bags of them
http://www.mekshat.com/pix/upload03/images121/mk93668_resized_resized_image000.jpg

[rembrandt]

So...Rembrandt, what are the laws pertaining to the hunting of houbara where these photos were taken....and where is that?

the laws here its really hard to explain but if u will pay so u will hunt any where and any time u want, its stupid here and mess sometime and these photos were taken from several countries egypt libya and sudia arabia

[Tanner]

It must be very time consuming to pursue an endangered species as your quarry. Is there anything else to chase with falcons (that flies)?

[Zarafia]

Thank you.
I have always had a great appreciation and love of feathers. Honestly the ones in that last pic look to be falcon feathers.
Here in the US we are not allowed to own feathers of native, migratory birds, except that falconers are allowed to keep moulted feathers from their falconry birds for imping. The law is to protect birds from people killing them for their feathers.
I have kept exotic birds for many years and worked for a large parrot aviary and I have collected many feathers. My boss used to laugh and say, "At least it's a cheap hobby".
If you truly have extra houbara feathers that you do not want, I would love to have some LOL. I love the red barred tailfeathers.
I have also kept and raised arabian horses for most of my life. They are simply the finest horses. For fun, I have tried my hand at making "native costume" halters and bridles. Because I make them by hand and use the cowry shells some so called "experts" have looked at my bridles and said they were real and authentic LOL. I don't ever remember seeing real native bridles or halters made with houbara feathers, but I would like to make one for my mare. She is a great granddaughter of Ofir.

[Bryant Tarr]

the laws here its really hard to explain but if u will pay so u will hunt any where and any time u want, its stupid here and mess sometime and these photos were taken from several countries egypt libya and sudia arabia

Thanks Lure, that does just about sum it up! I am NOT anti-houbara hunting, I am just pro-sustainable take...as I am with all hunting. The hunting laws need to be based on biology and surely they are not. It is too bad.

Thank you for your response.

[tony123abc]

This thread has opened some interesting issues to me. Are the houbara considered endangered in the ME and the rest of their range? And if so, what considerations are being taken to protect the wild numbers? Some would say what you do is not justifiable. Especially from the warmth of their homes 6000 miles away. Me, I am still undecided. Do you and the locals who fly with you see it the same way? Can falconry be sustained if the houbara is decimated? Is it tradition alone, or are the houbara numbers high enough that limited hunting can be continued? Are there any productive houbara captive breeding programs in place that have govt. support in the ME? Were the ones in the pic wild raised or captive raised release birds? What about the erneb? Has it suffered too? Do all, or rather the majority, of ME falconers use vehicles for pursuit? Why not on foot? Why not hunt with a more realistic concept of fair chase? Personally, I find the physical aspect and conditioning requirements of my flying to be a major draw. I don't want to seem insulting, I just do not know the thinking of what goes on in your areas and I am very interested. Also, the more info you can give us here in the USA the better we will understand what you guys do. Thanks, Tony

[chris kimble]

Great Pics, great title, great reference! Thanks for sharing.

[rembrandt]

Thank you.
I have always had a great appreciation and love of feathers. Honestly the ones in that last pic look to be falcon feathers.
Here in the US we are not allowed to own feathers of native, migratory birds, except that falconers are allowed to keep moulted feathers from their falconry birds for imping. The law is to protect birds from people killing them for their feathers.
I have kept exotic birds for many years and worked for a large parrot aviary and I have collected many feathers. My boss used to laugh and say, "At least it's a cheap hobby".
If you truly have extra houbara feathers that you do not want, I would love to have some LOL. I love the red barred tailfeathers.
I have also kept and raised arabian horses for most of my life. They are simply the finest horses. For fun, I have tried my hand at making "native costume" halters and bridles. Because I make them by hand and use the cowry shells some so called "experts" have looked at my bridles and said they were real and authentic LOL. I don't ever remember seeing real native bridles or halters made with houbara feathers, but I would like to make one for my mare. She is a great granddaughter of Ofir.
oh i miss understood i thought u r talking about falcon feathers,but i promiss u when the season come i will keep some hubara feathers for u,and for sure the arabian horses r the best;)
http://www.mekshat.com/pix/upload03/images121/mk93668_untitledhgjkt.jpg




Thanks Lure, that does just about sum it up! I am NOT anti-houbara hunting, I am just pro-sustainable take...as I am with all hunting. The hunting laws need to be based on biology and surely they are not. It is too bad.

Thank you for your response.
and thanx for ur open minded 2


This thread has opened some interesting issues to me. Are the houbara considered endangered in the ME and the rest of their range? And if so, what considerations are being taken to protect the wild numbers? Some would say what you do is not justifiable. Especially from the warmth of their homes 6000 miles away. Me, I am still undecided. Do you and the locals who fly with you see it the same way? Can falconry be sustained if the houbara is decimated? Is it tradition alone, or are the houbara numbers high enough that limited hunting can be continued? Are there any productive houbara captive breeding programs in place that have govt. support in the ME? Were the ones in the pic wild raised or captive raised release birds? What about the erneb? Has it suffered too? Do all, or rather the majority, of ME falconers use vehicles for pursuit? Why not on foot? Why not hunt with a more realistic concept of fair chase? Personally, I find the physical aspect and conditioning requirements of my flying to be a major draw. I don't want to seem insulting, I just do not know the thinking of what goes on in your areas and I am very interested. Also, the more info you can give us here in the USA the better we will understand what you guys do. Thanks, Tony
its 1 45 am here now so we can discuss this tomoro i hope


Great Pics, great title, great reference! Thanks for sharing.
u r the greatest one here thanx alot

[Zarafia]

Wonderful picture. That is exactly the type of bridle I was talking about, with the braiding and cowry shells. I have always had trouble making the cavesson (noseband). I use heavy gold plated large link chain, but have never been able to make the leaf-like hanging pieces (if you see what I mean).
Yes, I would love some houbara feathers next year.
My mare is a small bay mare who I raised from birth. I was there when she was just two hooves coming from her mother, she nickered to me first and I carried her around her first day when she couldn't figure out how to get back in the stall.
I asked God for a filly, for a mare who would prefer my company to that of other horses, and a mare who would come back to me when I fell off.
He gave me all those things in her. Sadly I forgot to ask for a mare who would tolerate a falcon, and a mare who would not spook LOL. I also forgot to ask for the skill to ride such an athletic mare. So, yes, she comes back when I fall off, and she comes to me whenever I call her, prefering my company to other horses.
She is classically beautiful. She is not big like they want in the showring, but she is pure and completely true arabian, and I love her.

[Bryant Tarr]

This thread has opened some interesting issues to me. Are the houbara considered endangered in the ME and the rest of their range? And if so, what considerations are being taken to protect the wild numbers? Some would say what you do is not justifiable. Especially from the warmth of their homes 6000 miles away.

Tony, I assume this is a jab at me? Maybe you missed it, but I lived in Abu Dhabi for three years working at a captive breeding program aimed at studying houbara. I did field work in Kazakhstan on wild houbara and put satellite transmitters on birds to study their migrations. I know a thing or two about middle eastern falconry practices and I am interested in this person's take on falconry there (Although I suspect his name is not LURE and that makes me suspicious...doesn't it make you wonder why he does not use a real name...I thought that was a rule here?).

I gave a link to the current status of this bird, and while I think the Arab tradition of houbara hunting is steeped in history and an awesome heritage, I dislike modern techniques and think they put falconry in a poor light.

Not trying to be insulting. Just trying to dig a little. It sounds like our friend "Lure" simply pays money to someone and is allowed to hunt regardless of law or season. I am interested to hear how this is justifiable in anyones mind?

[Zarafia]

Looking at that picture I just have to reply again.
Perfect arabian. Small ears like a stallion, but the gentle expression of a mare. I love the fleabitten grey color. Probably born chestnut but will be almost solid white at twenty years or so. That color only suits an arabian IMO.
Beautifuly dished face, large jibbah (sp?).
So is that a stallion or a mare? Also, is it common to clip the bridal path so long on a horse there who is not shown?
My old horse (my first horse) was an eqyptian arabian gelding. Black as night and smarter than any horse I have ever known. His name was Pashas Shadow, son of Serr Pasha out of Bint Zarafia (hence my screen name, I was Pasha's mother for twenty two years, so I took his mother's name). Pasha had a lovely mane and I never cut a brible path, I simply parted his hair and used a simple bridle on him.
I love the look of a natural mane on an arabian horse, even though showpeople think that a long bridal path accentuates their graceful neck.
Ok, I've rambled on way to much here. Sorry about that.

[Zarafia]

Tony, I assume this is a jab at me? Maybe you missed it, but I lived in Abu Dhabi for three years working at a captive breeding program aimed at studying houbara. I did field work in Kazakhstan on wild houbara and put satellite transmitters on birds to study their migrations. I know a thing or two about middle eastern falconry practices and I am interested in this person's take on falconry there (Although I suspect his name is not LURE and that makes me suspicious...doesn't it make you wonder why he does not use a real name...I thought that was a rule here?).

I gave a link to the current status of this bird, and while I think the Arab tradition of houbara hunting is steeped in history and an awesome heritage, I dislike modern techniques and think they put falconry in a poor light.

Not trying to be insulting. Just trying to dig a little. It sounds like our friend "Lure" simply pays money to someone and is allowed to hunt regardless of law or season. I am interested to hear how this is justifiable in anyones mind?


Oh for crap's sake stop it!
We get little enough input from falconers practicing in the East.
I, for one, am enjoying the pictures and info on this thread.
The simple fact is that things are done differently in other parts of the world. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it responsible or even wise or moral.
But it exists and I would like to learn about it.
I will go ahead and start a thread on the houbara bustard.
I'm not being a smartass here. I want to know more about them. I will do some research on them and I would really like it, Bryant, if you would post about what you know of them.
I'm quite curious about how they might do in a captive breeding program in a climate as humid as Florida is.

[Bryant Tarr]

Oh for crap's sake stop it!
We get little enough input from falconers practicing in the East.
I, for one, am enjoying the pictures and info on this thread.
The simple fact is that things are done differently in other parts of the world. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it responsible or even wise or moral.
But it exists and I would like to learn about it.
I will go ahead and start a thread on the houbara bustard.
I'm not being a smartass here. I want to know more about them. I will do some research on them and I would really like it, Bryant, if you would post about what you know of them.
I'm quite curious about how they might do in a captive breeding program in a climate as humid as Florida is.

Fine with me. I'll contribute what I know (albeit from 15 years ago) to the thread.

[tony123abc]

Bryant, no jab at you. More a generalization that I am sure many here feel. I for one am one of those. Like I said, I am still undecided. But, as it stands, I would not hunt houbara. Also, unlike you, I have no info or study time under my belt to make an informed decision. I have never been there or done that. So I can't approve or disapprove of hunting houbara. I have no experience on this topic. But I have read and have some uneasyness about it. That is why I have so many questions. If the bird is like the peregrine, a bird used to establish an agenda, then the facts need be published. If they are a viable species to hunt, I want to know. If not, I also want to know. And as for your knowledge, post it. If what is being done there can't stand the light of day, too bad. I really do want to know about it. I don't want to seem mean to our M.E. friends, but we do have an ethic about hunting and fair chase that is a very big part of American hunting.

[Bryant Tarr]

Bryant, no jab at you. More a generalization that I am sure many here feel. I for one am one of those. Like I said, I am still undecided. But, as it stands, I would not hunt houbara. Also, unlike you, I have no info or study time under my belt to make an informed decision. I have never been there or done that. So I can't approve or disapprove of hunting houbara. I have no experience on this topic. But I have read and have some uneasyness about it. That is why I have so many questions. If the bird is like the peregrine, a bird used to establish an agenda, then the facts need be published. If they are a viable species to hunt, I want to know. If not, I also want to know. And as for your knowledge, post it. If what is being done there can't stand the light of day, too bad. I really do want to know about it. I don't want to seem mean to our M.E. friends, but we do have an ethic about hunting and fair chase that is a very big part of American hunting.

Points well taken. I didn't intend to sound mean to falconers in the middle east. We all share the same passion. We come at it from different points of view.

How things ARE and how things SHOULD BE are rarely the same...in different times and different places. I'm very interested in hearing how things ARE in reality, and I will try not to sound so judgmental.

[frootdog]

Oh for crap's sake stop it!
We get little enough input from falconers practicing in the East.
I, for one, am enjoying the pictures and info on this thread.
The simple fact is that things are done differently in other parts of the world. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it responsible or even wise or moral.
.

So because he comes on and posts cool pics from 1/2 way around the world he should get a pass on the #1 rule of the forum. confuseddI know the mods have asked him more than once to comply and yet he does not. He blurrs out faces of people in pictures. I'm with Bryant, something ain't right here.

[Zarafia]

Nice try frooty.
If you are attacking the title of this thread, it was just that, a title, nothing more.
As for what I was told was the "number one rule" here, post your name, well I asked him to and he has. You want to go ahead and call him a liar, well then that's up to you.
So do you have anything to add to this thread? If not then why don't you just let it be?

[sharptail]

Wow, great subject, Houbara as a falconry quarry!

I am interested in a compairison between Houbara and Sage Grouse as falconry quarry. Many of the world's so called best falconers fly Houbara in other parts of the world. Here in this country 1 falconer is termed 'King' of falconry for hawking Sage Grouse with Gyr/Peregrine tiercel, his most famous hawk weighing only 26.5 oz(750gr), and male Sage Grouse occasionally over 7 lbs.(3175gr) from a great pitch.

I am told that Houbara can be flown from a waiting on style. It has also been suggested that a M.E. falconer going to school in Canada thinks that Full condition Sage Grouse can be caught off of his fist and that American Sage Grouse hawker's, birds are just out of conditon, needing a pitch to catch boomers. What's in your wallet?

[frootdog]

Nice try frooty.
If you are attacking the title of this thread, it was just that, a title, nothing more.
As for what I was told was the "number one rule" here, post your name, well I asked him to and he has. You want to go ahead and call him a liar, well then that's up to you.
So do you have anything to add to this thread? If not then why don't you just let it be?

I said nothing about the title and if you believe his name id LURE then my name is Falcon. He's been asked before and flat out refused to post his name. I'm just saying something don't add up.

[zero]

I agree with Meridith. I dont want to scare our new friend away. Give him some time, then make your assumption.:D

[rembrandt]

take it easy guys i coming from a different place of the world a different language and different culture, here we dont tell the strangers our real names
if u cant respect that so its ur prob.
any way im not going to post here at the forum any more.
it was really nice to meet u all guys and my real name is gasser
bye

[Mitchellbrad]

Wow, great subject, Houbara as a falconry quarry!

I am interested in a compairison between Houbara and Sage Grouse as falconry quarry. Many of the world's so called best falconers fly Houbara in other parts of the world. Here in this country 1 falconer is termed 'King' of falconry for hawking Sage Grouse with Gyr/Peregrine tiercel, his most famous hawk weighing only 26.5 oz(750gr), and male Sage Grouse occasionally over 7 lbs.(3175gr) from a great pitch.

I am told that Houbara can be flown from a waiting on style. It has also been suggested that a M.E. falconer going to school in Canada thinks that Full condition Sage Grouse can be caught off of his fist and that American Sage Grouse hawker's, birds are just out of conditon, needing a pitch to catch boomers. What's in your wallet?

David Jamieson had Artie, a 19 ounce peales tiercel that crushed winter Sage Grouse dead.

Wether our birds are in full condition or not does it matter<G>? The reason I say that is it probably depends on how eager the falconer would be to feed his bird to all the eagles present. Everyone knows the answer to the age old question "What does an eagle eat?" is "Anything it wants to." If there was a wild gyr and a wild eagle race my money would always be on the eagle<G>

[Chris L.]

take it easy guys i coming from a different place of the world a different language and different culture, here we dont tell the strangers our real names
if u cant respect that so its ur prob.
any way im not going to post here at the forum any more.
it was really nice to meet u all guys and my real name is gasser
bye

Hello sir,

The reason the members are asking you to post your real name is, we ask that of any member who posts.

I see you are not going to post anymore so this rule does not apply unless you post.

I will be closing this thread because of you above statements. No reason for North American falconers to debate this