Now its my Turn

[`Chris L.]

Here is my newest addition to the family. He is 21 days old yesterday. I am really excited about him. I am not going to keep a very detailed log, but I will post a photo log!!

hope you all enjoy, I know I am [smilie=icon_pidu.gif]

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/7.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/2.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/4.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/5.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/1.jpg

... he loved it outside!!!

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/6_6-12-07.jpg

[Falcon Boy]

1) camera is amazing
2) bird is gorgous
3) who bred him?

[wesleyc6]

Very cool Chris. hmmmmmmmm is that a professional photography backdrop [smilie=dontknow.gif]

[everetkhorton]

Chris L.
A there is left is to get him to smile for the photo's Nice pictures

[Lee]

Nice looking bird [smilie=icon_thumright.gif] but please some details.

[Jimmy]

Send him back, Chris. He looks defective......... [smilie=eusa_think.gif]

[outhawkn]

Nice! Very nice! Jimmy said he looked defective and you should send him back. I agree, you should send him somewhere and you hyave my address ..Right? [smilie=banana.gif]

Great looking bird, hope you enjoy .

[Lee Slikkers]

Congrats!

Awesome pics, great looking bird and I can't wait to see him on his 1st kill!

[Saluqi]

He's a beaut Chris, nice going. He's really yellow too. The tiercel I pulled 5 years ago was also really yellow right out of the nest, there was a plucked dove in the nest when I climbed into it. This new female is pale in comparison, I wonder if her diet was composed more of mammals?

Keep the pics coming!

Paul

[`Chris L.]

1) camera is amazing
2) bird is gorgous
3) who bred him?

Thanks Noah,
He was bred by a guy named Mike Atzet in Idaho. I have to say I would get a bird from him any day. he also has pure finnish gos's as well.


Very cool Chris. hmmmmmmmm is that a professional photography backdrop [smilie=dontknow.gif]

[smilie=eusa_think.gif] .. trying to take it up another level with m y photo skills. Its a work n progress.


Chris L.
A there is left is to get him to smile for the photo's Nice pictures

[smilie=icon_pidu.gif] .. I had him take some good shots, he is a camera hound for sure.. thanks Ev



Nice looking bird [smilie=icon_thumright.gif] but please some details.

Lee, he is a finnish/Geman gos. I am really wanting to make a donor out of him as well.. So we will see what comes of it. It will be a long 4-5 years but it will be worth it in the long run for sure

I will post some more pcitures tonight and some weights.

He is eating great and standing pretty good now.



Nice! Very nice! Jimmy said he looked defective and you should send him back. I agree, you should send him somewhere and you hyave my address ..Right? [smilie=banana.gif]

Great looking bird, hope you enjoy .

Bill and Jimmy.. Hmmmm, I think your right he does look a little off, but hey I am "special" too. [smilie=BangHead.gif]


Congrats!

Awesome pics, great looking bird and I can't wait to see him on his 1st kill!

Lee, Thanks brother.. I will keep ya posted for sure!!


He's a beaut Chris, nice going. He's really yellow too. The tiercel I pulled 5 years ago was also really yellow right out of the nest, there was a plucked dove in the nest when I climbed into it. This new female is pale in comparison, I wonder if her diet was composed more of mammals?

Keep the pics coming!

Paul

Paul,

Thank you for the compliments. What are you feeding your new girl?

The breeder did feed some mice and quail. A variety of both. I am doing the same and adding some rats to it as well.

I will post more pics


Thank you again to everyone for the warm wishes and the compliments. I really am looking forward to him and he ahs touched my heart. I really am enjoying it

[Lee]

Hows your bird? Have you named it yet?

[`Chris L.]

Hows your bird? Have you named it yet?

Lee,
His name is Jack. I dont know how it came about but we just started calling him that.. he just acts like and looks like a Jack. [smilie=dontknow.gif] .

He is a great bird so far. No screaming and such a pleasure. He is very tolerant of anything and loves people. Took him to a crowded area today with people all around him and bombarding him and he did nothing but look at them and preen. [smilie=icon_thumright.gif] .. soo all is well so far.

Here is his first kill... well sort of. I placed a quail in with him while he was sleeping. When he woke up he attacked it and started to break into it... I was a proud papa for sure.

here are some pictures... he is growing like crazy!!!

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/8.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/10.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/9.jpg

[outhawkn]

Chris, This is a gripe session so beware! I think you ought to take that camera and throw it away. I am exceedingly happy when I get A picture to print and post. And then along comes Chris and makes my photo skills look...well, I cant print how bad they look. So now thanks to you, I have to get out the instruction book and (gulp) read it. [smilie=smileys13.gif]

Really, nice, [smilie=icon_thumright.gif] very nice photo's.

[`Chris L.]

Chris, This is a gripe session so beware! I think you ought to take that camera and throw it away. I am exceedingly happy when I get A picture to print and post. And then along comes Chris and makes my photo skills look...well, I cant print how bad they look. So now thanks to you, I have to get out the instruction book and (gulp) read it. [smilie=smileys13.gif]

Really, nice, [smilie=icon_thumright.gif] very nice photo's.

Bill, LOL.. man I have to be honest.. I do nothing but point and shoot. The Camera does it all. I too have a instruction book reading dysfunction, so this is proof its the camera and not me.

Thank you for the compliments it really makes it worth while to take them when others enjoy them as much as I do. I really have found another piece of equipment that is essential in a falconers arsenal . A great camera really creates lasting memories for sure...

[RTJim]

Chris........Super bird........good luck!!!!!................jm

[`Chris L.]

I have been slack and not posted picks of Jack in a while [smilie=eusa_boohoo.gif] . So here are some updated photos. He is doing great and doesn't make a peep... Unless he is just being vocal when he is footing something or getting excited. He has been great and is turning out better than I had expected.


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/52do_1.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/52do.jpg

I hope he stays as he is when the weight starts to come off.. we will see [smilie=dontknow.gif]

Kelly, Jack loves the jesses as well [smilie=icon_thumright.gif].. they work great, thank you

[everetkhorton]

Chris:
Nice [smilie=icon_thumright.gif]

[Saluqi]

He looks great Chris, what does he weigh?

[Jimmy]

update????

[outhawkn]

Hello? Hellooo? Anyone there? Update???

[kimmerar]

CHRIS!!!!!!! Update??!!!

[Jimmy]

Damn dude!
Surely you didn't screw him up so bad that you won't let us know how he's doing??? [smilie=eusa_sick.gif] [smilie=smileys13.gif]
If you did, lie to us..... [smilie=icon_pidu.gif]

[kimmerar]

Now Jimmy - I bet he's real busy - or broke that awesome camera or something.??

[`Chris L.]

Now Jimmy - I bet he's real busy - or broke that awesome camera or something.??

It has been nuts around my casa this past few weeks. so Sorry guys all is well. As Kim said I am up to my ears in projects and work I have barley anytime to get on to post.

Enough about me [smilie=eusa_boohoo.gif] .. lets get to Jack.

He is doing great. He has taken 6 baggies so far and his transferring to the lure is better than I would have ever expected. As soon as he breaks in, the lure comes out, and I hit the whistle, he is on it like white on rice. There is zero hesitation for the transfer

He doesn't carry the lure nor mantles over it . He lets me hook him back up and we sit there until he is done.
He is not a fierce killer, but he does the job for sure. He is learning and is as docile as a cat.

I am now tethering him in the mews during the day and bringing him in at night and he is doing great with that. He loves it outside and loves to lock on anything that fly's

Kim mentioned my camera so here you go. Here are some pics of him today.

-----

--Jack having fun with my JRT

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0207.jpg

--Jack on a baggie

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0217.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0222.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0218.jpg


.....And I saved the best for last , best buddies

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r253/Nafex/IMG_0200.jpg

[everetkhorton]

Great Pictures.

[wesleyc6]

Looks and sounds great. So are you going to give in to the urge to fly him some?

[`Chris L.]

Looks and sounds great. So are you going to give in to the urge to fly him some?

Wes, Thanks, Yeah i think I will mainly night hawk and car hawk him. I am just taking my time with him and not pushing him to hard. It seems to be working so far. He really has become a great bird and I am now hooked on imprints for sure...

[wesleyc6]

You will have so much fun with him like that, but I predict you will be in the field eventually. I think the draw will be too strong. Imprints are great when all things are firing correctly. IMHO not a better experience in falconry. When the little stinkers are misfiring though, it can be tough too. No risk..............no success though in most things.

[`Chris L.]

You will have so much fun with him like that, but I predict you will be in the field eventually. I think the draw will be too strong. Imprints are great when all things are firing correctly. IMHO not a better experience in falconry. When the little stinkers are misfiring though, it can be tough too. No risk..............no success though in most things.

I probably will hit the field way late in the year. I want him to build his confidence and really trust me with his rewards and kills. I wont push him to do doubles this first year. If I can get that trust and relationship for this first the rest will be great. .. We will see for sure

[Saluqi]

He looks great Chris, congratulations on progress so far.

Paul

[`Chris L.]

He looks great Chris, congratulations on progress so far.

Paul

Paul,
thank you. Lets hope it stays this way.

[KidK]

Chris,

Thanks for finally posting an update on this little guy. BTW, what is his weight? Has he penned yet?

Best not to make plans of only single kills quite yet.. These tercil goshawks can get so good that you might not even be able to get him a workout on a single kill.

That is the beauty of a good accipiter!

Great pictures dude!

[kimmerar]

Thanks for the update Chris. Glad your camera still works. Jack still has those really yellow feet too!! Can't wait to hear hunting stories.

[`Chris L.]

Chris,

Thanks for finally posting an update on this little guy. BTW, what is his weight? Has he penned yet?

Best not to make plans of only single kills quite yet.. These tercil goshawks can get so good that you might not even be able to get him a workout on a single kill.

That is the beauty of a good accipiter!

Great pictures dude!

Kory, No problem I am just slack these day with my posts.. to frigin busy [smilie=BangHead.gif] .. Thanks for compliments on the pics. Most of the credit goes to the camera.. It is pretty nice and it doesn't hesitate to fire off for sure. I just start letting her rip..

Well He has hard penned for sure and is still doing great. When he is fat he is 840 grams. Today I had him down to 758 before he finally left for the baggy with out hesitation. In the morning he was 760 and didn't think twice about the quail.. he wasnt even interested. He just wanted to watch other birds, but those 2 grams and not eating that morning finally got his mind into it. I am wanting to drop him about 5 more and see what happens. I still am slowly working him into this.

Thanks again

[KidK]

Well He has hard penned for sure and is still doing great. When he is fat he is 840 grams. Today I had him down to 758 before he finally left for the baggy with out hesitation. In the morning he was 760 and didn't think twice about the quail.. he wasnt even interested. He just wanted to watch other birds, but those 2 grams and not eating that morning finally got his mind into it. I am wanting to drop him about 5 more and see what happens. I still am slowly working him into this.

Thanks again

Chris,

Whoa, he sounds like a good size bird. My Spunk (Midwest parents) kills at 650 grams, and he seems on the small size for an Eastern Goshawk. Skeeter, my other tercil kills at around 700 grams.

I am sure you will have some dialing in to do with him, but it sounds like you are off to a great start dude! What are you hawking plans for him this season?

Please keep us posted!

[RTJim]

[smilie=banana.gif] Gos looks real good....be careful of dropping the weight....go real slow as you do not want aggreessive to you or the glove. Looking forward to taling to you soon........cheers............jm

[`Chris L.]

What are you hawking plans for him this season?

Please keep us posted!

I will mainly car hawk and night hawk him. I am sure I will get bored and hit the fields. But for now that is my plan. I really want to build his confidence with me and gain a lot of trust. If I can just focus and be disciplined this first year, he will be solid from then on.




[smilie=banana.gif] Gos looks real good....be careful of dropping the weight....go real slow as you do not want aggreessive to you or the glove. Looking forward to taling to you soon........cheers............jm

Jim, that is what I am trying to do now. It seems to be working. No screaming so far. So we will see.

I flew him tonight at 745 and he bound instantly to the quail. So next plan of action is to see how far he will go for one. I will take him to a new field and new environment and see if he is still focused.

[`Chris L.]

Well today Jack weighed in at 740 grams and I decided to take him for a ride and see how he does out of the window of my truck. I drove him around and we pulled into a sand and grass lot. I set the quail up and started to drive towards the quail. As I pulled up jack was watching the quail and seemed interested.

I stopped my truck right next to the quail and put jack near the window. He was very unsure and bated. He regained himself very quickly and the quail flushed and started to fly around. This refocused him, and I lowered him towards the quail out of the truck window, and he flew off of my fist but landed near the quail. As the quail flushed again, he realized his purpose and bound to it. I let him break in and have some of the breast and then made the transfer. No mantling or carrying of either the quail nor the lure. He was content with eating and watching jets fly by. [smilie=icon_pidu.gif]

It wasn't perfect but it went good. He rode around in the truck and loves doing that. I will take about 5 more grams off and see if he is more focused. I am also going to start to do some night training. I think the night hawking will really build his confidence.

Well, just wanted to share that with you guys and give you an update. Thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

[`Chris L.]

I Have taken him the past 2 days...
Yesterday ( 750 G), our day was cut short when a juvi red tail swooped out of no where and killed Jacks baggie quail. [smilie=BangHead.gif]. he was like a fricking ninja.. All I saw was a flash of wings and him pumping away with jacks quail. The Juvi RT flew so close to my truck I could have touched him with my hands.

With that and Jack just not being himself, I ended it early and did some jump downs and lure work with him. I am so happy he was not on the quail, that Juvi may have tried for him...

Today ( 760 G) was much better. He took a another quail from the truck. This time he flew when I put him right outside the window and he bound to the quail. ( instead of going to ground first then going after the quail like he did the first time out. )

I let him break in and have some of the quail and he transfered to the lure.

He is coming along slowly but it is progress. I am happy with the way he is turning out so far. He is still has a great attitude and shows zero agression towards me, Jen, or the dogs. He tried to carry when I first started bagging him but he is as solid as a rock now and doesn't do a thing when my hands are in there helping him dispatch the baggie or when I change him over to a leash.

I have to work on his weight a little more, he is responding to the quail but I still don't think I have found his key weight yet.

May start to see if he will go after some launched pigeons.. we will see [smilie=dontknow.gif]

[wesleyc6]

Sounds like a killer in the making!!!! Glad the tragedy was avoided with the young RT. I guess anything can get killed, but a falconer told me once that when you break that 600g barrier and lower that the odds are it will be eaten one day by one of the feather sharks. 750g is a pretty good sized bird, so hopefully you won't experience anything like that. Thanks for the update.

[KidK]

Hi Gang,

Chris L. shipped his goshawk Jack up to me to fly about a month and a half ago now. Chris felt his schedule wouldn't allow him to work Jack the way he felt he needed this season. I can say, Jack is the sweetest, most mellow goshawk I have ever worked with. [smilie=icon_thumright.gif] His manors are perfect and he is very interested in chasing everything. His weight has settled at 650 grams for now. Lure response is perfect and he will come a mile to get the lure. He actually comes back to the glove on his own after missed flights. Chris did an amazing job imprint this bird. [smilie=icon_thumright.gif]

Jack is doing well with RP and Jump Ups in the garage. His stamina is improving every week and with more falconry friendly conditions and weather (cold an rain!), things should really be moving along soon. I have done flashlight training to the lure two nights a week and feel confident that when needed, it will work well.

I have followed Chris' lead and done some work out the car window with Jack and he has caught on well. We have a split crow season here in Michigan, so we are just chasing starlings now. I have also let him catch pigeons shot out of the launcher in the back yard to help prepare him for duck hawking.

Speaking of duck hawking, we have had a few slips at ducks already and Jack is getting closer with each attempt. We have been struggling to find slips on small ponds (they are all dry now) and have been trying less than optimal slips off big water.

Jack has also shown a keen intrest in cottontails and I expect great things from him once the cover gets knocked down a bit. Right now, you cannot see the rabbits you flush, just the waist deep grass moving. Jack still chases and I encourage this, as sooner or later, a rabbit will bust across the open and Jack will have a shot. [smilie=banana.gif]

I am really enjoying this bird. He sets a high bar for imprints in my mind and will be the bird that my future imprints will be gaged by. [smilie=icon_pray.gif]

Good Hawking!

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z303/korykoch/JackFinnGermanTercil05.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z303/korykoch/JackFinnGermanTercil04.jpg

[Bodarc]

Kory

Sounds like he's doing great. I can't wait to hear a few duck hawking stories.

Chris said his fat weight was 840 and you're flying him now at 650 which is about a 23 percent reduction. What do you think is a rule of thumb for top weight reduction on accipiters? I know each bird is different but generally what would you say?

The hoods you made for me are great and the largest, the 785 fits her perfectly. I'll get you a pic soon. I just got back from vacation yesterday so I'll get with you this week.

Thanks a bunch

[KidK]

Johnny,

The last two tercil NA goshawks I raised (2005 & 2006) both were nearly this heavy before penning . One ended up flying at 630 (low end early season) the other at 650 (also low end).

When I got Jack, he was 850 grams, but Chris had only been feeding him (and feeding him very well) in the chamber the last month before the transfer. He was pretty chubby.. It took me taking him down to 750 grams before he would hop to the lure. Even at that, he wasn't very enthuastic. The weather was still really hot and he was not metabolizing much. Odd thing is he was super mellow from 850 down to 650 grams, with NO significant change in his disposition through the weight drop. I don't think that a NA bird would do this, though I don't have any way to prove it.. yet.

We got down to 710 and he still was watching pigeons walk across the yard and was completly uninterested. He would chase and catch rats at 710 but not birds, even fluttering, teathered birds.

I gave him the bennifit of the doubt that he was a heavier bird (I guess I though that the Finn in him would make him "bigger") but based on my experiences with a couple imprint female goshawks and a couple tercil goshawks, I knew he was going to need further reductions. He had no fire.

We went slow, about 5 grams a day with sometimes a day or two held at that weight to gage his reactions. It can be tough taking more weight off an imprint, but using behavior and intrest in game as indicators, you can find where they need to be. This can be a challange when you haven't raised the bird (and when the bird belongs to someone else too) to put the screws to them and get them down where they need to be to get rolling. Behavior like trying to carry the lure, or only making passes at it and not grabbing it are sure signs of an overweight bird.

I guess what I am saying is, if the birds top weight has been raised by feeding on a schedule that will result in the bird being very heavy, how is the "top weight" of any bearing? It would be a rare bird in the wild that is able to catch enough to eat at a rate to make him this heavy early in the season. So, I guess that this reduction may be quite normal (rule of thumb) for imprints if they are offered as much food as they want while being raised. I would really like to hear from Paul Domski or Erik Swainson as to what their birds top weigh were while imprinting VS. the end weight for flying.

I think that with an imprint that you raise and control the ammount of food you give the bird, if not mindfull, you can easily make the bird overweight.

With the tercil goshawk I raised in 2006, I started slowly reducing his weight a week before penning and within a week post penning, I had got him to his early season hunting weight where he would chase and catch stuff. The tercil goshawk I raised in 2005, I didn't do any weight reduction until nearly two weeks post penning and struggled for a month getting him back on track to his prepenning behavior and vigor to chase. This was a huge mistake.

I have no doubt that Jacks weight will be at 700 grams by the end of the season. He is getting excersized every night, even when we go hunting and is responding well. His metabolisim is cranking now.

Glad to hear that the hood fits well. I was suprised (I guess) that the hood that I use on most Eastern female Cooper's would fit what you are refering to as a Western female, but I have little experience with birds from other areas of the country.

Please do send photos, and feel free to post them here.

BTW, I have kinda renamed Jack.. Nothing too different, but with a bit of a twist from what Chris was calling him.. I call him...

Action, Jackson!

[kimmerar]

Thanks for that info Kory - keep us posted.

[Shortwingn]

Hi Kory,
My birds top weight while still responding to the lure (if you count a 30 to 60 second wait) is 910g. I should note the heaviest he has ever weighed is 940g. Above 910g that you have to wait a few minutes. For an instant response to the lure 860g. To catch game 810g. Heavier than that he just chases. I intend to bring him down a bit more from that as well if the weather doesnt get colder. I would guess he will do very well at 795 -800g at 50 - 60 fahrenheit. Still I will build him with his weight high to low.
I feel it best not to rush things with birds. Just let them come into their own with small weight reductions. You can rush a bird but you might pay for it later.

[wesleyc6]

Good luck Kory! I get confused after so many posts, but will you be flying an intermewed Gos and Jack? or a coop. Memory fails me especially with those silly little pills that are keeping pain at bay.

[Bodarc]

Thanks for the info Kory and Erik. I'll get the hood pics posted as soon as I can figure out how to get them off of this new fangled phone I got the other day.

[KidK]

Good luck Kory! I get confused after so many posts, but will you be flying an intermewed Gos and Jack? or a coop. Memory fails me especially with those silly little pills that are keeping pain at bay.

Hey Wes,

My memory fails me quite often, even without the silly pills! LOL..

I am going to just fly Jack for now. I am keeping the other goshawks safe for breeding.

Now I have been seeing this passage Cooper's hawk out by my pigeon loft...

[wesleyc6]

Good luck Kory! I get confused after so many posts, but will you be flying an intermewed Gos and Jack? or a coop. Memory fails me especially with those silly little pills that are keeping pain at bay.

Hey Wes,

My memory fails me quite often, even without the silly pills! LOL..

I am going to just fly Jack for now. I am keeping the other goshawks safe for breeding.

Now I have been seeing this passage Cooper's hawk out by my pigeon loft...
Kory you are as hopless as me. LOL. I keep seeing coops here, but can't figure out a good reason why I need one with the male HH in the chamber. They are just amazing to me though and I have seen so many here. They are hunting in this tiny town daily. Keep us posted on Jack please. I know Chris really enjoyed raising him.

[KidK]

Hi Kory,
My birds top weight while still responding to the lure (if you count a 30 to 60 second wait) is 910g. I should note the heaviest he has ever weighed is 940g. Above 910g that you have to wait a few minutes. For an instant response to the lure 860g. To catch game 810g. Heavier than that he just chases. I intend to bring him down a bit more from that as well if the weather doesnt get colder. I would guess he will do very well at 795 -800g at 50 - 60 fahrenheit. Still I will build him with his weight high to low.
I feel it best not to rush things with birds. Just let them come into their own with small weight reductions. You can rush a bird but you might pay for it later.

Erik,

WOW! That is a good sized goshawk. If I recall, it is a pure Finn, correct?
How is his personality? I tell ya, I am starting to think that the Euro birds are the way to go. Wish they weren't so darn expensive!

Please keep us posted on your bird.

[KidK]

Kory you are as hopless as me. LOL. I keep seeing coops here, but can't figure out a good reason why I need one with the male HH in the chamber. They are just amazing to me though and I have seen so many here. They are hunting in this tiny town daily. Keep us posted on Jack please. I know Chris really enjoyed raising him.

Wes, you should make a point to try an early passage Cooper's one of these years. With where you live, you could have a great time flying one.

Jack is still doing awesome. His manors are so sweet.. We got an inch of snow last night and it is what we have been needing to knock some of this cover down. The next few weeks sould be the start of serious hawking!

[wesleyc6]

I should have done it this year, but I really want to try rabbits since I am in a place that has more than I am used too. If rabbits are hard to find our here even with the harvest done, then I will probably try one next year on birds and a pointy winged headache.

[Shortwingn]

Hi Kory,
He is a pure finn bird as is my hen. His personality is wonderful. After my first finn I was hooked.

[KidK]

Erik,

Yeah, I hear ya..

I am really wanting to try another now, and imprint it myself for comparison to the NA birds.

Looks like I better start working on my wife now so I can have an eyas in the house next summer!

[wesleyc6]

Erik,

Yeah, I hear ya..

I am really wanting to try another now, and imprint it myself for comparison to the NA birds.

Looks like I better start working on my wife now so I can have an eyas in the house next summer!


Kory,
Have you got the go ahead on a gos for this summer???????