Bam Bam 2010 male coopers hawk

[moredtailboy]

Well I pulled bam out of a tree in the middle of St.Louis in between a side walk and a road. He was 8 days old when I got him and recipe imprinted him Mike McDermitt was the one who convinced me to tame hack him but most of the help I have been receiving on my first imprint come from my friend Keith, who is also tame hacking a male coop. I am pushing the limits of the tame hack for where I'm hacking this bird i have house on all sides of my back yard as I live with my parents still and I'm hacking him out right smack dab in the middle of a subdivision its day six so far and he has came leaps and bounds in six days with his flight ability. Hes now flying around every where spending most the day down the road in one of my neighbors yards. One thing I am wanting to try is OC method of hooding later in the season. I will add pictures soon I have a lot .

[MrBill]

Hey Joe,

That's interesting that you are hacking him out in a subdivision. I'll be interested in knowing how it goes.

Good luck with him, and yes, send photographs.

Bill Boni
Norman, OK

[moredtailboy]

Nothing seems to bother him he was sitting over the top over my next door neighbors pit bull.

[Saluqi]

Just make sure he doesn't latch on to the pitbull and carry it away, we know how dangerous these BOPs can be when it comes to large dogs.

[conorhawk]

Just make sure he doesn't latch on to the pitbull and carry it away, we know how dangerous these BOPs can be when it comes to large dogs.

that just made my day paul!

[moredtailboy]

I have a picture of Bam Bam pecking the pit bull in the nose for sniffing him. I have to say this hack has made him mental develope very fast your can see day by day progression.

[sevristh]

Joe,
That's great that someone is finally doing a hack in a crowded area! I can't wait to hear stories but.... WE WANT PICS! LOL! toungeout

[moredtailboy]

I will try and find the cord today but this morning after I feed him which i try and do at sunrise. Me and him just sat there in a law chair for about 35 minutes and some chichadees came around. He was turning his head upside down and running back and forth on my arm before finally flying to the try right above them and almost give them a heart attack. Today is day 8 of the hack and he weighed in at 338gr I have noticed he come in to the lure and mantles for a short time but then calms down and is fine the long he is at hack the less this happens so hopefully it goes away all together.

[moredtailboy]

Well Bam bam caught a semi grown grackle today so that was a surprise.

[cbdfox]

Joe
I am very curious to hear more about your Hack. I just pulled a eyas Coops myself about 8 days old. I was also sold by Mcdermott's idea of the Tame Hack and have been debating a "City" Tame Hack too.

My big concern are the local Dogs and cats. I have dogs myself that know how to act around hawks but I worry about the Hacked bird getting killed because it isn't weary of the dangers around it.

How is your bird dealing with this?

Thanks

[moredtailboy]

well today the bird got animal control called on him and it was quite funny i was tracking him down with telemetry when i found the officer trying to catch him but he went from the deck of my neighbor down the road to in a tree. The officer knew me and didn't care and the people where excited when i explained why my bird was sleeping on there deck. But I haven't had problems with dogs unless there is an extreme aggressive dog I would go for it the bird knows when something is wrong and will spend most it time in trees I'm going to try and stop the hack on June 16th if i can stretch it that far but if not oh well. But I am seeing big difference in the birds hacked in more rural areas and think this is the way to go for a dog tame bird i had kids jumping over my hawk on a perch today after i fed him up for the night.

[Eagle Owl]

Hey Joe, to avoid incidents like this, you need to let your neighbors know what you are doing. I would take the bird around on your fist to all your neighbors so they can see what he looks like. That way you avoid AC being called and hopefully keep your bird safe. Never know what people will do to a bird they see as dangerous but doesn't seem afraid of them. ;)

[moredtailboy]

Dont often do that my next door neighbors all know but this is down the road and the AC knew me so it went fine and was betting it was mine. I live in a big subdivision and right in the middle so I dont exactly have the opportunity or the desire to walk up to 400 front doors. But i let a few more people know.

[moredtailboy]

He was all over the place today he was 323g he is a small male compared to the others pulled. about 6pm he came down and was checking us out while we BBQ'd. He chased sparrows in a bush also he jumped down and bathed in my neighbors fish pound.

[sevristh]

Hey Joe...


....found that camera cord yet? :)

[moredtailboy]

actualy just did uploading now.

[moredtailboy]

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1027.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1013.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1034.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1037.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1043.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1065.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1047.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1086.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/group1049.jpg

[cbdfox]

Finally.... :-)

Good looking bird Joe! I am amazed at how feathered he is. Coops in my area must hatch a lot later than other parts of the country.

[Bryant Tarr]

There he is! :)

[moredtailboy]

The reason I did the hack is it supposed to reduce the amount of noise they make and make them more aware of there feathers and this morning I could really see that all starting to happen. He barely mantles and its just for a second he preens and cleans him self no stop and the only sound he makes is a whistle when hes out side. Tho I know he hasn't dropped any weight I think it will continue like this as long as I drop his weight slow enough. I will take more pictures tonight after work of where I am hacking him. I also think he has peaked as far as weight 3 days in a row he was 323g when let out at 6:30am. Another observation is this morning he spent more time then he ever has before eating in the AM hes very calm on the lure I was able to put his transmitter on his backpack and sit with 4 dogs around him this morning while he was eating.

[moredtailboy]

hack sight the zoomed in picture he is on top of my neighbors onning

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture011.jpg

this is zoomed out from my yard to my neighbors

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture008.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture009.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture010.jpg

front yard
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture014.jpg

back yard looking at the neighbors
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture012.jpg

[moredtailboy]

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture013.jpg



So for all wondering this is my urban hack site.

[REYNALDO]

i really like reading these kinda threads. i enjoying seing the progress of the bird, learing about the ups and downs and a whole lot more.
you have a cool looking bird and hopefully everything goes well for you. im going to be following this thread for sure.

[sevristh]

Thanks for the pics Joe! The bird looks great! Hope everything continues smooothly for ya!

[moredtailboy]

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture019.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture015.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture016.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture017.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture018.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture021.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture021.jpg

[REYNALDO]

do you have a transmitter on him? i just didn't see one. im trying to get a grasp on how tame hack works.

[moredtailboy]

Yes I have a back pack mount on him and the tame hack is very simple you release the bird in the morning in the exact same spot feed him as much as he likes let him go and then in the evening when he shows back up you call him down crop him up take him home and repeat for 21 days. or better yet past hard pen if possible.


I have come to the conclusion that by birds burning threw 20-25g in a 12 hour window I figure that will jump up soon but the bird went up in weight today 332g highest yet on a empty crop. I dont know when he will top up any one know this. I still think he is a small male but he did latch on to my girlfriends lion head rabbit yesterday and kept chasing it around the yard. That is no good:eek:

[FredFogg]

Joe, when he shows back up in the evening, are you calling him down to the lure? And what happens when he doesn't show up? Do you track him down with telemetry and then call him down when you find him? I am in an even more rural area but was afraid to tame hack a coops but I might give it a try if this works out. Although I have a convenience store 2 houses up from me that worries me if a bird would go up there and land on someones car while they are filling up! LOL

[keitht]

Joe:

Joe, It looks like from some of your pics that not only am I going to have to give you fishing lessons, I'm also going to have to teach you how not to take really washed out pics.

Here's some pics of your birds sibs:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x283/chondro_2007/hawks/100_3946.jpg?t=1278119374
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x283/chondro_2007/hawks/coop3.jpg?t=1278119347
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x283/chondro_2007/hawks/coop2.jpg?t=1278119353
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x283/chondro_2007/hawks/coop1.jpg?t=1278119656

[moredtailboy]

I was worried about all that too but he will learn and as long as he dosnt kill something he will come back to the same spot. when a bird kills the hack is over.

[sevristh]

Joe:

Joe, It looks like from some of your pics that not only am I going to have to give you fishing lessons, I'm also going to have to teach you how not to take really washed out pics.

LOL! clapp I was thinking the exact same thing! ;)


Keith,

So I take it your hacking out two coop's together? Where's the thread on that?? Come on man, don't hold out on us! Especially when your pics are nice and CLEAR! :)

[keitht]

Dave:

Joe and I are working together in this. I'll just come over to his thread and offer an occasional insult now the then.

By the way, I've seen Joe's bird and he's doing one heck of a job with it!

[moredtailboy]

Well it helps when you have a some one thats been around coopers hawks since the end of the ice age. The knowlege that keith offers is priceless but I will say im trying to bring him to the dark side on stuff like hacking and backpack mounting transmitters that I havnt been able to convince him of yet.



Today went well after about 5 min of desiding my bird took a quail it was nice but he was possessive at first so I sat there and waited it out and he calmed down and stop mantling.

[keitht]

Shot this morning

LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYH_yTWE4g0)
http://www.nafex.net/%3Cobject%20style=%22height:%20344px;%20width:%204 25px%22%3E%3Cparam%20name=%22movie%22%20value=%22h ttp://www.youtube.com/v/ZYH_yTWE4g0%22%3E%3Cparam%20name=%22allowFullScree n%22%20value=%22true%22%3E%3Cparam%20name=%22allow ScriptAccess%22%20value=%22always%22%3E%3Cembed%20 src=%22http://www.youtube.com/v/ZYH_yTWE4g0%22%20type=%22application/x-shockwave-flash%22%20allowfullscreen=%22true%22%20allowScrip tAccess=%22always%22%20width=%22425%22%20height=%2 2344%22%3E%3C/object%3E

[FredFogg]

Keith, what happens when one gets finished before the other, any squabbling or is it to full to even attempt to take it from the other? Also, video was kind of dark but are they just eating on a mat or are they each on a lure on top of the mat? Good stuff, enjoy reading this thread. Any chance they will be hunted in a cast?

[jeffandheidi]

Joe, when he shows back up in the evening, are you calling him down to the lure? And what happens when he doesn't show up? Do you track him down with telemetry and then call him down when you find him? I am in an even more rural area but was afraid to tame hack a coops but I might give it a try if this works out. Although I have a convenience store 2 houses up from me that worries me if a bird would go up there and land on someones car while they are filling up! LOL


Joe: apologies for jumping in on your thread but I have been dealing with this exact problem.

My male coopers is about the same age as yours, yesterday was day 8 of hack. Yesterday he was an hour and a half late for the afternoon feeding time so I had to track him down. He was very nervous, in fact the first time he came to the lure he landed about 15 feet away and flew back up to the tree. He finally came back down and once he started eating I was able to walk up and clip onto his jesses. This was the first time he has shown any fear, my guess is the bottle rockets had him spooked but I'm not sure. Just to be safe he is staying inside today for lots of socialization. Haven't decided yet if he is going back outside tomorrow or if I am going to continue as a traditional eyas, with extra baggies and walking fields once he penns.

For comparison he was 15 days old when I took him from the nest, and the 4th dark tail band is just coming out of the tubes now.

-Jeff

[keitht]

Fred: If you look you can see that each is feeding off a lure. Since both have more food than they can eat, they don't fight over the food.

Whether or not they will be flown together is still up in the air?

Jeff: At 15 days old, you are not dealing with a true imprint. I would suspect that you will be dealing with fear issues as opposed to aggression issues that you might encounter in a younger taken bird. I've taken a few gosses at day 15 and they were a far different bird than those taken much younger like the 3 birds in this thread.

[sevristh]

Keith,

Thanks for the video! They are looking great! I am really looking forward to all your (and Joe's) adventures! ;)

[REYNALDO]

Cool video. Ok thanks for the reply about the transmitter. Another question. You guys said that if they kill...the hack is over. If they r outside and doing there own thing so many hours a day how can you know that the bird killed something or not?

[keitht]

I don't want to dominate Joe's thread but I'll respond. Joe can chime in and agree or disagree.

Traditional hacking has been going on for hundreds of years. Woodford, in A manual of falconry states the traditional wisdom regarding when to take a bird up:

"When, after three or four weeks, usually less in enclosed country, a hawk is observed to have failed to turn up at feeding time more often than once- especially if the two absences are consecutive - it is time to catch it up."

So one kill doesn't necessarily end the hack. Regularly being able to provide for himself does.

Also Jeff: I hope I didn't sound negative about the 15 day thing. I didn't mean to. Some people prefer later taken chicks. It's a trade-off in regards to behavior.

[sevristh]

Cool video. Ok thanks for the reply about the transmitter. Another question. You guys said that if they kill...the hack is over. If they r outside and doing there own thing so many hours a day how can you know that the bird killed something or not?

Also, to more exactly answer the question, if you are weighing the bird each day, and weighing it's intake, it should be obvious when it has eaten something at some point during the day. Just like when your RT sneaks a mouse in the mew at night and is high for the hunt the following day! :D

[jeffandheidi]

Also Jeff: I hope I didn't sound negative about the 15 day thing. I didn't mean to. Some people prefer later taken chicks. It's a trade-off in regards to behavior.

Keith: No problem ;). I would have preferred a younger chick but since it was later in the spring and he just sat there it was decided to give him the same treatment. If he had acted fearful in the nest I wouldn't have taken him at all.

After consulting with a wiser and more experienced accipiter guru my bird is back outside preening in a tree. My neighborhood is similar to Joe's except that I'm on the edge of a subdivision next to woods. In my previous post i was referring to my neighbors bottle rockets, not mine.

I'm curious to see if completing the tame hack is going to smooth out or magnify some of the fear issues.

-Jeff

[moredtailboy]

From what I can see its not to smooth out fear usually its more to smooth out handling error and to muscle them up.......also for some reason or another they take better care of there feathers after being hacked and most doesn't scream. I have been logging even better in my journal at home attempting to figure out why this is true and what actually dose come from tame hacking your bird. At the end of this whole ordeal I promise to let every one know the conclusion I come to and for what thats worth I hope it helps some one. Me being as young as I am I am doing my damnedest to contribute something.

[FredFogg]

From what I can see its not to smooth out fear usually its more to smooth out handling error and to muscle them up.......also for some reason or another they take better care of there feathers after being hacked and most doesn't scream. I have been logging even better in my journal at home attempting to figure out why this is true and what actually dose come from tame hacking your bird. At the end of this whole ordeal I promise to let every one know the conclusion I come to and for what thats worth I hope it helps some one. Me being as young as I am I am doing my damnedest to contribute something.

That is very interesting Joe! I wonder if one pulled two cooper hawks at the same time, imprinted them in 2 seperate rooms, tame hacked one and did the traditional imprint method with the other, what the differences would be? Hmmm, I might try that in a few years. LOL

[moredtailboy]

well I just think that the birds that are hacked are going to be more easy to handle and less will bother them.

[moredtailboy]

well I have hit a mile stone today the bird normaly stayed right in between the neighbors behind me and the house's in front today he went across the road and up the block.

[goshawks00]

Just like when your RT sneaks a mouse in the mew at night and is high for the hunt the following day! :D

Are you sure it was a mouse, to make him to high the next day.... Maybe it was a muskrat!!:D

[sevristh]

To be honest, I never did figure out WHAT it was... But there were about two or three days this past season where that happened to me. And I am one of those people anal enough to want to have their RT within a 5-10g window each day! :)

[moredtailboy]

Enen after eating almost a whole quail he cased a grackle all the way down the block right on it's tail.

[moredtailboy]

363g after being fed up..................he came down on the ground about 4pm and ran behind my neighbor cutting his grass, not sure why he did but was very friendly to my neighbor all of them seem to like the bird so far. He killed a baggie today after being coaxed I think he is starting to pen because he is getting more excited when he is indoors friday will be 21 days for hacking and if he is hard penned then I will start hunting saturday morning.

[moredtailboy]

I think I am making head way with no mantling and vocalazation the only time he makes noise is when he is looking for me at feeding time. The mantling is for about 30sec then this how he eats even on baggies.



http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture023.jpg

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture025.jpg

this is how he spends some of his day

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac76/moredtailboy/Picture022.jpg

[moredtailboy]

The hack is over...................Soon I hope to be hunting for now now its just baggies set fup in a hunting senioro to get the bird killing with high level of confendece while redusing the weight.

[sevristh]

Joe,

What made you decide to end the hack?

[moredtailboy]

He sprained his wing

[sevristh]

Dang. Sorry to hear that. Does it seem pretty serious? (drooping, etc?)

[cbdfox]

Sorry to hear about the Sprain Joe.

I hope nothing bad happened while at Hack?

I assume he will recover from your comment about baggies. Keep us up to date.

[moredtailboy]

hes doing just fine dosnt even seem to bother him now i kept him in a darken box for a day and 1/2 and then he now he seems fine. amennn

[moredtailboy]

what is the high level tibiting hooding method could some one exsplain in depth how to go about this.

[cbdfox]

Joe
I have never practiced it and someone please correct me if I am wrong.... But I believe it is the Hood training method where you Tid bit the Bird up high at head level while hood training.

I believe this is done by putting the tid bit -in the hood- and letting the hawk take it thus conditioning the bird to associate it's beak in the hood as a good thing. The intent is to allow the hood to be placed on the bird later as a natural next step without creating a negative association.

I have only seen this done and assume this is what your referencing. High level tid biting can be done under other circumstances as well. But it is specifically offering a tid bit at head or above head level to the hawk. The idea is to take the feet and eating at the feet out of the equation.

There are two problems with these methods that should be considered. Some Falconers reason that food shouldn't be involved in Hood training because it teach's the bird to expect food while or when hooded. Behavior such as biting while hooded or tearing at the hood itself is a risk.

the other problem is that when high level tid bitting is done it often includes your hand. The hawks impulse is to grab you with it's feet or bite. Plus the tid bit isn't visible to the bird until it's offered so the hawk is constantly looking at your hand for food. Some speculate it encourage's the hawk to grab you.

I am sure someone else could elaborate better. But that's how I understand it.

[sevristh]

This website explains it in detail...

http://www.americanbirdabatementservice.com/highleveltidbitting2.htm

[cbdfox]

Dave
Thanks for sharing that. He clearly has developed a good system. The video of the Goshawk -not attacking his hand- is pretty cool. I never would have thought he could do that.

[moredtailboy]

OK well bam was 297 yesterday so hes making his way down. We went hunting with mike mcdermitt yesterday and but didnt connect but he did yesterday and mike said his manners and behavior is perfect so that was a nice thing to hear. Im gunna bring him down a few grams today to get his responce a little better.

[frootdog]

We went hunting with mike mcdermitt yesterday and but didnt connect but he did yesterday

Huh?confusedd

[sevristh]

Krys,
It's a space time continuum thing, you wouldn't understand...;)

[bobpayne]

Well it helps when you have a some one thats been around coopers hawks since the end of the ice age. The knowlege that keith offers is priceless but I will say im trying to bring him to the dark side on stuff like hacking and backpack mounting transmitters that I havnt been able to convince him of yet.



Today went well after about 5 min of desiding my bird took a quail it was nice but he was possessive at first so I sat there and waited it out and he calmed down and stop mantling.

No doubt Joe that the man is older tha the dirt you are standing on. Treat him with respect and if you are lucky and he's not too grouchy he may do the same.

Keith, don't let Joe drive, ever, and you might live long enough to see all your hair turn grey. Best of luck with them guys!

[moredtailboy]

Very funny Bob im sorry I dont drive like a old women like you. what are you flying this year, when are you coming down to STL for some hawking with us.

[keitht]

Bob: That's quite the assumption you're making there - that my hair is not gray now.

[bobpayne]

Bob: That's quite the assumption you're making there - that my hair is not gray now.


I will try not to make too many assumptions when you are concerned. I've been down that slope b4. Good luck you two.

[bobpayne]

Very funny Bob im sorry I dont drive like a old women like you. what are you flying this year, when are you coming down to STL for some hawking with us.
Ouch Joe.....Been flying Aplos again this summer, hoping for a hen gos in a couple weeks, Joe since the move to Kansas, I will mostly spend the 5 hrs in the truck heading west. Look forward to seeing you in Dodge again in November,

[moredtailboy]

took my first double tonight he is turning on slowly and very pleased that im starting to figure out how to manage his kinks.

[frootdog]

took my first double tonight he is turning on slowly and very pleased that im starting to figure out how to manage his kinks.

That's an enthralling story. Nice pics too.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[cbdfox]

I'm with Krys. Could you give us some more detail?

Glad to hear about the progress. Maybe you could fill us in on the last few weeks?

[moredtailboy]

sorry ill post some more in the morning. sorry guys been busy.

[wgtail]

clapp
Keep hanging in there.

thumbsupp

[moredtailboy]

Well bam started to get real moOdy for the past couple of weeks but I have since got a handle on his behavior and is giving most birds he'll if they fly he has caught every day for the past couple and I'm headed out in just a little while to try again.

[frootdog]

Well bam started to get real moOdy for the past couple of weeks but I have since got a handle on his behavior and is giving most birds he'll if they fly he has caught every day for the past couple and I'm headed out in just a little while to try again.

I fully understand now....... Joe I honestly don't see the point in keeping a log if all you are going to do is post one liners. The whole point is for learning. It would be nice to know what problems the bird had exactly and how you fixed them. Take this post from my thread for example. http://www.nafex.net/showpost.php?p=140921&postcount=18

[moredtailboy]

Sorry I was in the AT&T store on my phone up dating. Tonight he was 191g and was full trotle at 7pm we where late getting out of the store so we where only able to get one slip ans he was so excited he was jumpin on the dash bored trying to get at them. Well he finnaly made it out the window and made an amazing chase after a sparrow ending up 80 yards hitting the ground twice after it and fnnaly ending under a trailer missing so we played shaping games for about 20 min working on putting his aggression towards a outward sources and it seemed to work really well I'm going to try in the morning so I'll let every one know tomorrow.

[moredtailboy]

Bam didnt make weight this morning so this afternoon ill be at a concert so im goin to do some more shaping games in a little bit.

[moredtailboy]

Well if I said tonight was good it would be a under statement we got out to chesterfeild around 5:00 after taking the Girl friend shopping. He was right on weight 291 as before and we start out by car hawking he made one good slip and then we couldnt find any more starlings so i saw hundereds of sparrows in this long line of bushes by a movie theater and like alway haley my girl friend was not going to sit in the car she wanted to be apart of the action well we got a good slip right off the bat and it ratted out in the bush he let me pick him up sweet as can be and haley flushed another sparrow and he went on 90yd case after it before losing in a tree I called him down manners perfect( this shapping game stuff has really worked for me turned him around completly). The next flush he was off and followed it into some cattails where I had to locate him with telemtry and found him on his prize :D

[FredFogg]

Take a camera the next time, we want to see pictures! LOL

[Dennis Samnee]

Yea Joe YOU really figured him out huhfrus)