Totally love and enjoy your thread, Jeff! Keep it going!
Printable View
Totally love and enjoy your thread, Jeff! Keep it going!
Thanks Deb, so far everything has been easy and predictable. I really like this bird. She isn't penned yet but in a few days she will be and we will start cutting weight then. I've been weighing her a couple times a day just for the practice, but so far the numbers don't mean much. She is usually around 175 ish grams in the morning and 195 ish grams full.
We have been doing sparrow baggies twice a day this week and she has taken two out if the air about twenty feet away. It's pretty cool. The first few I let her kill and eat before offering the lure, but lately once she's settled down a bit and about to start plucking I offer the lure and recycle the sparrow to be caught again later. With no weight control yet I know she isn't really hungry.
A pic from this morning:
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...FE69335889.jpg
One more.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...4DCE743EF6.jpg
Jeff,
The tail looks perfecto! She must be on a quality diet. Response to training is excellent, congratulations.
I wonder if she can be hunted without weight reduction?
Harry.
It's all happening so fast.
Harry, thank you! That means a lot, especially from you. She had been fed almost 100% starling with some sparrow mixed in as she got older.
I've wondered about how much weight reduction she will need, if any. Last year I put a male sharpy in the field too soon, he wouldn't come to the lure near dusk and ended up spending the night out and was killed by another predator. Honestly I'm getting pretty nervous with this bird because I know we are getting closer to hunting and I hate the risks we have to deal with.
Her personality is excellent with me and other people. The location we train doesn't seem to matter to her as long as there isn't a lawn mower or big dog anywhere around. She hates those. After we got home this morning I was getting her full weight and she decided to lie down.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...895D9823D7.jpg
This morning didn't work out so great but ended ok. I've decided to start controlling her weight a gram or so at a time for the next day or so until I'm sure she's penned.
She came to the lure three times slowly but wasn't too distracted so, so far so good. I had set up a sparrow baggie in a small shoebox about 20 feet away. When I pulled the string to open the box it rolled on its side toward us (20 feet away!) and she squeaked and bated away. It took her a few seconds before she shook her tail and relaxed her belly feathers. Even when I walked toward the tethered sparrow she wasn't going for it. I got it back in the box and decided to just finish with a large reward in the lure.
She had just hopped over to the lure and started pulling on the starling breast, then she looked over behind me and started cacking, and bated again as a squeaky 10-speed rolled by about 50 feet away. Thankfully I had her creance in my hand and she didn't go anywhere. It turned out that my quiet high school back parking lot is also the Friday morning meeting place for seniors citizens on bikes. One lady was friendly and offered to move to a different parking lot but I told her it was fine. It didn't take long before my bird was eating off the lure as they made their laps, passing about 30 feet away. So everything ended on a positive side.
I think starting tomorrow I will make our morning sessions all about feeding a small amount in order to make a specific afternoon weight and save the baggies for then also.
Here's a pic from this morning, this guy was really working hard to make that bike work for him.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...6229E9B974.jpg
Any updates?
Tim
This thread is awesome! I started a thread "first sharpie nest" this week, and have been reading / studying / following this thread to get a head start on what to expect when I get mine in a few days (If all goes well, and the eggs hatch). I see that you stated you flew a hen earlier, and had a great season. Are the hens capable of taking doves and pigeons? If so, I think I may try to pick out a hen when I pull mine. If that is expecting too much from the hen, I'll go with the musket and chase sparrows and starlings.
Either way, I'm very excited to get my hands on my first sharpie. Thanks again for the thread!!!
Hi Tim, we are still here but don't really have much new stuff to report.
She penned about 3 days ago and we have been dropping weight and increasing baggie and lure distance. Last night at 170 grams she was distracted by everything. I set her on a retaining wall to try for a 30 foot lure call, she bobbed her head then flew half way to me and started footing a chunk of mulch, flipped it up with her beak, then hopped/flew the rest of the way to the lure. We ended with a sparrow on a long line, she flew after it but not in a hurry, and bound to it as soon as it reached the end of its line about 30 feet away.
I've been using Harry's 22 hour weight control with this bird also and its working well so far. I'm trying to eliminate or minimize the amount I feed her in the morning, and use a 10pm fed weight to make target weight the next afternoon.
Around 9pm she gets a little bouncy but if I pick her up or lie down near the perch she stops. In fact if anyone lies down near her perch at any time she still hops onto our chest or back and lies down like a little chicken. It's pretty funny. My daughters have named her Ruby, after the character on Once Upon a Time.
Paul, that's awesome! Congratulations and good luck with your bird!! I don't have much experience with sharp shins, but you'll definitely want to have a few sparrow traps out now and more birds than you think you'll need already in the freezer. Before she penned we were going through about 2 and a half starlings a day, the growth was amazing.
My plan with this bird is to mainly fly starlings and field sparrows, soon I hope! Pigeons are too big for me to attempt with her, doves maybe out the car window? Please do keep a thread when you get your bird, I would love to compare.
Last night:
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...bb8380400a.jpg
Also last night on her baggie with my lovely assistant. Notice that the birds mouth is still open. She mantled and screamed for a few moments before plucking and eating, not that hungry yet.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...271AA86DC8.jpg
Thanks Jeff! Yeah I've been stocking the freezer already. I was planning on a coopers out of a nest that was less than 100 yards from our house, but the nest died. So I was going to hold on to the frozen birds in hopes of trapping a passage coopers, or a passage female gos later this fall. But when I stumbled across the sharpie nest at our property this past Monday, I knew I was just going to HAVE to get one!
I set the sparrow trap out not ten minutes ago at the local tree farm. I stopped counting last year when I caught the 100th sparrow in that trap, and it took less than one month to catch that many. He has a lot of them out there, and I didn't even seem to put a dent in the population.
I will certainly be keeping in touch. We have enough doves here that a hen sharpie may be a good idea. Either way, there are tons of sparrows and starlings, so a musket would fit in just as easily.
Might I ask why you picked a hen, or was it just luck of the draw?
Paul,
(if I may) - my two cents about choosing a sex to fly in sharpshins is that you shouldn't really think about it. In my estimation, the most important thing in choosing an imprint 'shin is to get it EARLY. Since you can't determine sex when they are the "right" age to take, you just pull a bird and fly what you get. I suppose if you're really hung up on flying a certain sex for whatever reason, you could climb the tree, take samples from each chick and color mark them, send the samples of to the lab, and then climb again after the results are in, and take the chick that you want, but since they take such similar prey species (and pigeons/doves aren't really a solid option anyway) it shouldn't really matter what sex you fly. At least that's the way I see it. That aside... I'm stunned to hear that you've got a nest with eggs still in it? Are you sure the nest didn't fail, and the eggs are dead? Are they still being incubated? It's awful late in the year for shins to be hatching and trying to make a go of it before all of their prey starts to fly south.
Great thread. Scott, earlier in the thread he mentioned the female was on the nest when he approached it. She jumped off and was defensive.
Thanks for the thoughts Scott. I am new to sharpies, so I don't know what their capabilities are. That's why I was asking about the dove/pigeons. If they are outside the realm of reasonable quarry for females, then yeah, male or female won't matter to me at all.
Like Eric stated, in an earlier post, I mentioned the parents screaming at me, and yes, the female actually leaving the nest also. I stood and watched them as they got real close to me since I have never been very close to shapshins in my life. Not even as falconry birds. I've never witnessed them in action at all in any of my 18 years of falconry. I've only seen fleeting glimpses of them in the wild. That's why I just stood there and watched them for several minutes, and just took it all in. I knew I was close to a nest, but I took the opportunity to just watch them, and enjoy them. I found the nest, but that doesn't mean anything till I actually have an eyas in hand. I'm trying not to get my hopes up cause I know it could all go south like the coopers nest I found right by the house. But I'm hopeful none the less, and would sure like the chance to experience flying a sharpie.
I am just as surprised as anyone else that this nest is here. I figured those eggs better be hatching quickly if the chicks are going to have any chance at all to survive migration. But hey, who am I to tell a sharpie to not lay eggs!:D
I will certainly give an update as soon as we check the nest here in a few days.
Sorry Jeff. Didn't mean to hijack your thread...
Wild sharpies kill a lot of mourning doves. Just sayin.
And I've had a few pigeons caught by wild Sharpies in my backyard, albeit they have some difficulty holding them. Just saying...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanner
shin + Doves = firsts
I love the discussions, this is what Nafex is all about.
The high school I teach at has a resident flock of wild pigeons nesting on the roof and drain gutters. One day a male coopers grabbed one outside my window on the sidewalk, and we watched them fight it out for several minutes before the coop finally won and hauled it about 15 feet under some bushes. It was all that coopers could do to hang on while the pigeon flipped them over again and again, half the time the hawk was on the bottom.
I know in a hawking scenario the falconer would be right there to decide the winner, but sharpie legs and toes are so thin and spindly it seems an unnecessary risk to me, especially considering the unlimited field sparrows and starlings around.
Agreed. I think I'll just pull one out of the nest, and see what I get. Sparrows and starlings are obviously going to be the majority of what is pursued, so male or female won't matter there. I may try the occasional dove if I end up with a female, but its not going to be a big disappointment if I get a male. Afterall, it is my first opportunity at a sharpie, so WHO CARES!!! I just want to get my hands ON one!Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffandheidi
Thanks Pete for the comment about mourning doves and sharpies. We have the larger Eurasian Collared Doves around here for the most part. They aren't exactly as big as a pigeon, but they are certainly larger than the mourning doves. If I get a female, I'll give them a shot, but only after some success with sparrows and starlings.
As with any eyas its a matter of building confidence over time. If you can bag her on a few over the next 3-4 months, then just let it simmer until a wild opportunity arises. You'll see that she'll give it a whirl. In general, the one thing you can say about Accipiters is...they're game! But I'm with you, no need to beat them up if it isn't necessary. The reality is, larger is usually just that..larger. The flights are rarely superior and the real wow factor with Sharpies is on very quick and nimble quarry. They will knock your socks off in that area. And while I was enticed to try quail with the one I had, it was either too easy (if the slip was the right distance), too frustrating (if the slip was too close), or no good at all if too far. But on other smaller quarries in the right habitat type....even if she missed it was not a big deal because you still had to lift your jaw off the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by 460shooter
Thanks Pete. That's the kind of stuff I wanted to hear. All based on confidence. I think I'll just pull one, assuming they hatch, and see what I get. If its a female, I'll bag her on a few doves and see what happens. If she doesn't like them, no big deal.
I think we are at a plateau in our training until I can get her weight lower. She has been coming down about two grams, hold that weight for a second day, then two grams lower and so on. I'm starting to wonder if it's too slow and I should drop her 3 or 4 grams at a time instead. Any thoughts??
Two days ago on her baggie she was still plucking when a jogger and his dog passed by about 200 yards away and she tried to carry. She wasn't able to get more than a foot away but it's loud and clear how hungry she isn't!
Last night at 170g her lure response was still slow, and when she did come it was a gliding, butterfly type of flight. There was rain coming in so I didn't offer her a baggie yesterday. She should be at 168g today, I'm hoping for more focus.
Good stuff Jeff. I know that fat on passage / adult birds can be hard to get through, so I imagine it would be the same for the little eyas. Heat of the summer doesn't help either...
Jeff,Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffandheidi
I worked my female down to 155g for a day and she was good on the lure but still not chasing on slips but behavior was pretty good. The next day at 158G she became scared to death of me. The last few days I've just tossed her food on the perch. She acts like a freshly caught passage. My brother's sharpy is has no fear and they were raised and trained together. I thought bringing her weight down would have prevented this fear reaction that some imprints go through but it didn't with this bird. This is the best reason for a hack but I can't risk it with the coopers that live around here and I also found that hacked sharpies catch game very early, sometimes on their first day a hack before being hard penned. This has led to more than a few overnight outings. I think you should just keep going at your pace. There is no rush. Some birds are ready to hunt sooner. They mature at different rates. My female last year was catching game at this stage. No need to force the issue yet with faster weight loss. Good luck with her..
Thanks Paul and Paul. I wish I could blame the heat for the slow drop, but it's just me being very gentle with her. I've been keeping her on a perch in the living room with constant activity and temperature, even outside we've had a very mild summer with high temps mostly in the 80s or low 90s.
Paul, that's weird that your bird was fearful. How long have you been hawking with her? I hope she gets her head on straight soon and you guys are out again soon. I agree about not wanting to hack a sharpshin, there are coopers in abundance out here also. I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear about a young shin becoming self sufficient while out at hack.
My Ruby was only a gram lower yesterday, even though I fed three grams less the night before. At a friends house with his kids running around we had great and instant lure response at a distance of around 20 feet. She still takes a few seconds to mantle and scream on the lure but otherwise her manners are ok and she is easy to pick up once she's eaten her bite.
We set up a sparrow baggie about 50 feet away, which she launched after immediately and caught in the air before it reached the end of its line, but she tried to keep flying with it until the creance brought them down about 15 feet later. Then she took another 5 minutes to pluck and scream before breaking in and eating. Once she was eating she folded her wings, and transferred easily to the lure so that was all good. I know we are getting closer, but 168 grams still seems plenty high for a female sharpie and I'm hesitant to cut the line.
This bird doesn't lose weight easily. She was only a gram and a half lower this evening. I suppose with such a small bird it's better to be a little high instead of low, but geez. Slow progress.
This time I planted a tethered sparrow baggie in a field I hope to hunt this fall. The weeds are about knee high and it's near an intersection with lots of noisy distractions. She did great, the crunchy tall grass didn't bother her at all, I walked around the edge and set her on a branch just above my head. It took her a bit to turn around and see the lure 20 feet away but once she did she was on her way and followed it down into the grass and let me pick her up again with no problem. Back on another tree branch and another smooth but slow lure call.
I spent a few minutes walking in a circle and moving toward our baggie. For some reason the sparrow went straight up and kind of hovered about 10 feet above the ground and Ruby quickly bound to it and tried again to carry it off to the nearest tree, reached the end of her creance and circled back landing almost at my feet. I'm pretty sure that was a coincidence but it was still pretty convenient. Every other baggie she has caught has been in ankle high grass or shorter and I expected her to try to carry again but once she hit the ground she stuck there.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...F9E6D2C3B5.jpg
I gave her a second to break in and pushed down a section of the tall grass. She looked around and decided the back if my hand looked good and hopped over with her now opened sparrow.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...0A064A027B.jpg
Just as she finished her sparrow, three fire trucks went screaming by about a quarter mile away. She tried to look but I think the grass was too tall and she finished on the lure with no problem.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...685DA1D13B.jpg
We are on the right track, it's just taking a longer time to get there than I hoped.
Looking good Jeff!
Thanks Lee!
The past two sparrow bags have been caught in the air beautifully. She leaves my hand immediately, flies in and catches them from below. Then she uses the remainder of her creance (about 10 feet) to try to keep flying with them. Once she is on the ground she stays there, and if she catches on the ground she stays there. Lure response is still slow. She isn't turning her back or trying to go somewhere else, just not in any hurry to come down to me. I'm still looking for that weight that gives us a combination of good response and good manners. 167g last night.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...FE6DDE64F1.jpg
Awesome!! I can't get enough of this thread! Anxious to get mine out of the nest tomorrow, and see where this road leads...
I've been afraid to take the next step without a creance mainly because of the way things worked out with my male last year. This afternoon she will be at 160 grams and we are taking that step with our first free flight.
The past 4 days we have had nearly perfect mock hunt training sessions at 162 grams, she was still lying down on the lure and screaming so yesterday I had her at 161 and she was perfect.
The first lure call I set her on a branch and as I was backing away she landed on my head. I had my daughter hold her about 50 feet away and she was on her way before the lure had hit the ground. We walked around a large field with a few other lure calls which went fine, then finished with a sparrow bag 30 feet away which she caught out of the air and dropped straight down with. She still mantles some but I let her pluck for a few minutes and then offered a lure which she stepped quickly to and fed up.
Fingers crossed!
Always a leap of faith with these birds. Hoping all goes well Jeff.
Success. We couldn't find any good flights from the car. Starlings were down near busy roads but I didn't risk it. We ended up walking a large field far from any trees. She chased two larks and a dove but didn't get close. Each time when she broke off the chase she turned around and flew back to me and landed on the ground a few feet away. Once she flew about 50 yards to a lone tree, but came straight down to the lure. On the way back to the car another lark flushed, she flew about ten feet, turned around and landed in front of me. I had a sparrow in the car, and decided it was time to walk back. She flew ahead again and this time grabbed something on the ground, just kind of glided in to it and caught a fledgling miscellaneous bird. By the time I had her leashed she had already broken in, so I carefully traded her the lure and fed up there.
160 grams is a good weight for tomorrow but we still need to keep coming down. She rode in the car perfectly, and came down to the lure instantly from about 40 feet in a tree, but her manners on food are still not where they need to be.
Also, this field borders a treeline that had an active rt nest this year. We were carefully observed by a nice sized passage redtail that has little fear of people. Mike, (wgtail) let me know when you're ready. :)
Congrats Jeff! Little prey for little hawks still counts!! :D
Way to go, Jeff! HUGE Congrats!!
I learned three important things today...
Putting on a leg mount transmitter is a two person job.
Ruby will bate aggressively at her reflection in the side window of my van.
I need a GoPro.
We took the same circuit around a college campus and industrial park this afternoon and had almost identical results. She rides in the car fine, enjoying the ride. The few starlings we saw this time were all either up on wires or along the shoulder of a busy road.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...60DEB553C3.jpg
Once we started walking the field from yesterday her energy changed, it was surprising. She stood tall the whole time, balancing on the tips of her talons many times. She had a couple flights at sparrows but they were flushing too far ahead for her to have much of a chance before they dove into cover.
An adult lark flushed near my feet and she was off. They covered about 40 feet in a blink before it dumped into tall grass. Ruby lost it and landed on the ground nearby, as soon as she was down it reflushed and she was right behind it again. I thought she was going to catch it this time, she was so close. It dove into the grass again, she landed on the ground again and it flushed again. This time it was able to pull ahead and she turned around landing beside me. The whole flight probably lasted less than 5 seconds, it was amazing! I had never seen a lark flight in person before, it dove into the ground with impressive speed and had to have hit the ground with considerable force.
I scooped her up and started toward some waist high cover. There were some small sapling trees near one edge and she was standing tall looking ahead. She took off before I saw what she was chasing, it was another young miscellaneous bird about 40 yards away that she caught in the air and dropped down. This one was larger and fighting back but by the time I got to her it was already dead. Again she was mantling and more worried about me than in eating so she is clearly too heavy. She still transferred easily to the lure and fed up. When I picked her and the lure up together she was a little possessive and bit my thumb a few times and mantled over my hand.
http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/...848786D9F5.jpg
I am going to leave this field alone for a while. I'm impressed with her determination and that she gets the game we are playing, but flying down fledgling birds isn't falconry and I don't want her to get into that routine.
Nice job Jeff! Sure enjoy your outings, and I can't wait to get my little female going. We can't be but a month away from doing some hawking ourselves!!