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While watching a movie tonight, I began putting plucking on cue. I left a carcass in with Apache and laid down on the couch. Whenever he got interested in the carcass and would pluck, I would CR and then get up and give him a tidbit. The goal is to give him another way to make me feed him. Later on a kill, he can make me approach to feed him by plucking. Tonight he got to where he would pluck and then luck at me.
Apache is beginning to branch and get more mobile. I will transition him to spending the day in the flight pen hopefully by the end of the weekend.
Keep up the thread, I am enjoying following the progression I have been doing some thinking about a goshawk next year and find your thread valuable.
Sue
27 days
Apache is making the transition to the free flight pen. He spent about 3 hours in it yesterday. He didn't explore a whole lot, but he got to spend some time in the Texas heat.
I am slowly increasing his time in the pen to gradually adjust him to the heat. Our temps are close to 100 lately. The pen is shaded, so he is not experiencing direct sun.
I feed him only at the nest bowl at this point. That is how I move him from place to place. He comes to the bowl for food and I can pick the bowl up and transport him.
Hey Jeff, I hope this isn't to far off topic, but can you post a solo shot of your Wirehair? Looks like a nice dog. Thanks
Thanks...she has been a blessing. Her name is Karis, which is the Greek word for grace or free gift. She was given to us by a group of coworkers after a dog I had was stolen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L.
Her registered name is Scotian Holy Smokes. She is a NAVHDA NA Prize I and a Utility Prize II. She scored 192 of 204 possible points in her Utility test.
Her is a couple pics of her:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/331f26fa.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/8fba5501.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/caddf81a.jpg
and a couple videos:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/afa5afa1.mp4
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/f02495db.mp4
Sorry, try this for the videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHgFH...e_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxVkH...e_gdata_player
Nice dog! Should make turning Apache into a killing machine easy having a dog like that to work with.
28 days
The feather growth has really exploded.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/11291196.jpg
Jeff,
Impressive dog! Has he had loads of pro training or what? One of my pointers is exceptional. Everyone who sees him in the field claims he is absolutely the worst dog they have ever seen. Ever! But he has a nose to die for so I can't shoot him. He detects birds off farther than I am willing to say and locks in on the approach. When we are out some time without finding birds we all begin to watch him...
Keep up your thread it is fascinating!!! Many thanks.
We arrived home yesterday with my small male Colorado mtn. gos. He tipped the lab balance at 397g at 20 days on an empty corp. Pens on wing tips were out about 1". He plays with everything and is dead serious about white washing the place.
Harry.
Harry,Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmcelroy
No pro training with her. I have done all her training. A good breeding makes a big difference in trainability and instincts.
Congrats on the gos! I look forward to following it's progress.
Apache did great today being in the flight pen all day. I stopped in several times throughout the day. Twice I opened the door went in and walked out, but left the door open. He came looking for me, which I rewarded. I did the same when I picked him up to take him home today, except after he came to find me I went to his nest bowl. It took a little bit, but he eventually went to his nest bowl. I picked up his nest bowl and brought him home.
To and from work he is now riding in a big plastic dog crate inside his nestbowl. I'm prepping him to hopefully eventually ride relaxed and unhooded in a crate without a perch.
Jeff,
I guess we have all seen eyas gos and Cooper's riding in a hawk box without the hood. My bet is that you will have him trained to it soon.
One year when we were living in Nevada I went to the mew to pick up the gos to go hawking. My practice was to place the open hawk box on the top of the heater for the home. It was only a few feet from the rear of the mew. As I opened the door of the mew and offered my fist a powerful gust of wind caught the door and pulled it out of my hand. All I saw of the hawk was a flash of feathers so I closed the door and began to search for the gos first walking through the neighborhood and then driving all over the place. Quite late that evening I returned to pick up the box and was more than a bit surprised to find a hungry gos inside.
Harry.
This summer is definitely going to be a test of how a goshawk deals with heat. It was 101 degrees today and the next 4 days are supposed to be just as hot. This is shaping up to be one of the hottest and driest summers we've had in a long time.
Jeff,
When we go down to feed the horses my little boy gets hot quickly. I hope he begins to thermo regulate soon.
Harry.
Apache is getting into a good routine now. Each morning he rides to work in his nestbowl in the big plastic dog crate in the back of my truck. At work I put him in the big flight pen and feed him his breakfast. I always CR for calm behaviors and only feed him when he is calm. I check on him throughout the day and feed him mini-meals. At ~5pm I show up and feed him a mini-meal at the nestbowl and then take him home (riding in plastic kennel in back of truck). Once at home I put him in a 10x10 weathering area and feed him his evening meal. I leave him in the weathering area until almost dark. Once he has roosted back in his nestbowl, I bring him inside for the evening. So far once inside, he is really calm.
My wife's favorite thing is there has been almost no down in our house so far. It has all floated away outside!!!
Here are some pics:
The weathering area:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/87789942.jpg
In the house:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/25c7f016.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/224158d5.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/c7587432.jpg
Jeff,
Sounds like a good routine to me. I love the pictures including your little daughter.
For better or worse before each meal I'm offering the first two tidbits on the hood. So far he is quite fond of the hood but I'm not putting it on him.
Harry.
What a great topic. Love the photos. Your weathering area is interesting as well. Sounds like your hawk and dog have been trained with a lot of thought...no doubt, your daughter is turning out well too! Are you training your dog by any particular method?
I've never met Steve but heard great things. Would love to see that book printed. Since you are well acquainted with his methods, are there any of his writings that you feel sum it up decently to this point?
I like the photos of your daughters involvement as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmcelroy
My daughter was about that age when I raised my first goshawk, and they were constant companions. At our falconry club's summer picnic a friend of mine, who was raising a goshawk at the same time, laughed and told my daughter had wandered over to hug the wrong hawk and freaked his hawk out. He dubbed it the "two year old manning technique." It certainly makes a hawk that will put up with a lot!
I have a great photo of my daughter and my half grown goshawk laying down on a pillow, beak to nose. Now my daughter is approaching 15.5, and I am working on getting a nice photo of her holding that same hawk for a "now and then" photo segment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Rev
Bryan,
The basic method that I use to train my dogs is found in George Hickox's Great Beginnings video. It consists of using the clicker early in the dogs life to shape the behaviors you want and then using a marker signal for corrections as well. The contrast training makes sense to the dog and really seems to solidify it in the dogs head. It's been really effective for me.
I agree that Steve is a great guy. I know he is working on the book currently. I don't know of any particular writing of his that sums up his methods well. He had an old Hawk Chalk article called "Passage to Imprint" and another one the talked about doing jump ups and restrained pursuits at one point. If you read Karen Pryor's "Don't Shoot the Dog" you get the basics of his method there. Steve is great at reading the bird's behavior and looking at things from the BIRD'S perspective. He encourages the behaviors he wants and puts them on cue. He is also really creative in problem solving.
Thanks Jeff. I have Karen's book and I'm reading her April '97 Hawk Chalk article now. I'll have to see if I have Steve's articles from the April '94 and April '95 Hawk Chalks.
HE wrote one in '01 or '02 about using his OC and direct food association with a hard impring coopers hawk that he raised. He went so far as to purposely trigger aggression, and then shape it away to prove the shaping would work.Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Rev
I think that was the last time he wrote about this, but he has given several talks about it and he is scheduled to talk about this at the NAFA meet this year in Vernal. I dont know if he will still be up for that, he is recovering from heart surgery right now.
Thanks Geoff. I'll look for that article also. I'm not sure I can make Vernal but I haven't decided for sure yet.
31 Days
Apache is branching. He has figured out how to get off the ground and is perching on higher surfaces.
Here are some pics:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/36db3e7a.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/60ad2e86.jpg
He is turning out to be quite a handsome fello!
I LOVE the sleeping pictures, too precious!
Had a funny moment this morning with Apache. He definitely sees me as his parent at this point in time. He likes to come looking for me when I'm in different rooms. He has caught onto the routine and evidently thought I was sleeping too late today and it was time to get up and get going.
I was laying in bed and all of the sudden I heard a "Kak-kak-kak" call. It wasn't a food begging call or an alarm call, but a "where are you call". I waited a little bit and then went and checked on him. He was laying down in his nest bowl waiting for me to come get him. It's fun to see the social side of these birds. I took him out to the weathering area and fed him. I left him in the weathering area today because there are more shorter perches for him to explore and hop on than there is in the big flight chamber. I'll probably keep him in the weathering area this weekend and then put him back in the big flight pen next week.
2 new things I will start doing with him at this point are:
1) I will start feeding him on the glove on the ground as if it was a lure. As he gets used to eating off the glove at some point I will slide my hand in and begin picking him up.
2) I will begin helping to make sure Apache sees my dog as a sibling. I will have my dog near the food and then Apache gets to come in and eat in front of her (i.e. letting Apache think he is stealing the food from the dog). I would expect Apache to then direct aggression toward the dog if she get's to close on a kill (which keeps the dog from running in on him) and it will also mean that Apache thinks he will be competing with the dog to get to the food or whatever is flushed first.
Jeff,
We all do things differently I guess. I've been feeding imprints out of a dish with the nest pan on the floor with a dog right beside for decades. I took a few pictures two days ago.
Harry.
Jeff, can you provide some info on your mews setup? Looks like a hog panel type setup. More photos?
The weathering area seen is a 10'x10' piefert dog kennel. It has a jump box with a tire perch in it and a zip line to a bow perch. My mews are at work, so this is what I use when I bring birds home. It has worked well for a harris, coops, and hybrid falcon so far.
Mews at work? That's interesting. I have a modified dog kennel with jump box as well. Your's is more refined. I like the idea of running a zip line to an alternate perch.
I too have been feeding imprints with the dog around for a while. What I haven't done before is intentionally try to set it up so the bird sees the dog as a sibling. I will have the dog tied out next to the food and then bring the hawk in so the hawk thinks it is stealing food from the dog like it would take it from a nestmate. The goal is for the hawk to think it is competing against the dog for food. I want the hawk to think it has to beat the dog to the quarry.Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmcelroy
That poor dog is gunna catch some real heat in the field if it dosnt produce game as well. I am not sure taht is a bad thing, unless the chaufer hasnt doon his research well. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by rocgwp
we had a female gos that was imprinted to us and the dog stole some food from her as a chick and she attacked all dogs.and im not talkin in the butt like as to say hey u better get me game im talkin would fly any where and how ever far she had to to grab the dog in the face.and we had several master falconers standing there tell us no the hawk is just tying to tell the dog to hunt and when she his his brittany and almost ripped her eye out they finnaly agreed we knew what we said i would be carefull making it seem anything like that but thats just me.
Jeff,
I'm with Harold. Some gos tap dogs and others take them down. It was too dangerous to have my little fiest in the field with one gos.
Harry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocgwp
Jeff, I hope i am mis-understanding you, if not, I don't think you are approaching this right... Why intentionally drive a wedge between the two? They are not siblings , but rather should be molded to trust and react to each other in a positive way. Just because the dog is present shouldn't be promoted as a negative.. it's a small leap from that to it seeing you as the same. He was raised with dogs until you got him... they were in his face from day 1 , why try to promote competitiveness.
When the bird misses game in the field, using your technique the gos will POSSIBLY take his aggression out on the dog, and if the dog isn't present ..guess who may be next... you, or worse one of your kids. Please don't create intentionally bad 'ju-'ju... there will always be a loser.
.02
Concerns about the dog are noted. I have talked in some serious detail with a falconer that has done this successfully several times with no ill effects. I think we are all on the same page, he is just explaining to me the why of how a lot of dog and bird relationships work. The goal is for their not to be bad ju ju between them, but for them to have clearly defined roles in their relationship as they work together. I will proceed with caution if I continue that route...
33 days
Apache began making short flights today. I love the fact that he still comes to the nestbowl and sits on his haunches to be fed like a little eyass. He calmly reaches up for his food...
Here he is being fed:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/9b2a4504.jpg
Chilling in the nestbowl:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/48b41591.jpg
Starting to look like a goshawk:
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...p/6f19ab34.jpg
Jeff,
Progression is rapid. He looks good. Now much of the meal is fed in the bare hand?
I'm placing the nest bowl down on the floor often to all my boy to step out and venture about. He was out for a while but now has gone back in the bowl to sleep.
Harry.
How much I feed bare handed completely depends on how much time I have and what is going on. Sometimes the whole meal, sometimes a couple bites. This morning is a good example. I set the whole quail in front of him while he was on his haunches. I cut the legs of the quail off and cut them into tidbits. I then CRed for his calmness and patience and fed him each piece (about 6-7 pieces and CR's). I then got up and refilled the bath pan while he ate off of the quail. Once the bath pan was full, I walked over to him and cut off a couple pieces of breast meat. He stepped back while I cut it off and I CRed and handed him a couple pieces. I then left and fed my dogs. He ate some more while I was gone. I came back handed him another piece. He was ready to go play by that point, so I picked up the remaining quail and left.Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmcelroy
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm feeding only two tidbits on the hood and one or two from the bare hand as he eats. So far there is no sign of aggression but of course he is only 27 days old.
Harry.