Michigan regulation changes

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Originally Posted by goshawks00

Joe- I am surprised by your comments about Mich and our regs. In the truest sense of reciprocity we should be able to take the same birds in your state as you have been allowed in ours. BTW how is your goshawk season in Oh. or any of your eyas taking going? How much did your non resident permit cost you to have an opportunity to come to Mich. and take or atempt to? Mich from the very outset of our first ever take in Mich, what 12 years ago has always allowed non-residents to come here, so I am not sure what you are on about. I am all for reciprosity and it should involve any one coming to Mich having to pay what their state charges non-residents, take only what there state allows nonresidents to take. Isn't that what truly reciprosity is?

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Barry,
I'm just going on what I mentioned in my response to Aimee, which was when earlier this year someone mentioned about going for, I believe, a passage gos and when I mentioned an interest, I was told it was only allowed for MI falconers. Listen, I fully agree with you about eyass take here in Ohio. Some of our own ranks have been our biggest hurdle as well as the factor that we'd actually have to change the ohio revised code (an actual change of ohio laws that our state senate would have to vote on). Also, as I mentioned I know many of our falconers have gone to either PA, Indiana or KY for eyass takes, but I've never heard of anyone going to MI for an eyass take. Do you all even allow an eyass gos take for out of state residents? And if so, do out of staters have an equal opportunity to get one of those permits, or does that opportunity go to MI falconers first (which I would fully understand)?

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Originally Posted by clevelandk1

Barry:

Thanks for the input. MHC, and other falconers in Michigan, are not needed for the DNR to do its job in managing piping plovers (this is, at its heart, a plover management issue). We did, however, see this as an opportunity to partner with the falconry community in a way that would benefit the resource and Michigan's sportsmen. We will not be expanding the list of individuals who are authorized to trap merlins in this program to all falconers statewide (it took 2 years to clear the paperwork hurdles with our federal partners on this program to allow the current take - much of which is dependent on having a predefined list of agents who will trap). The DNR does not take lightly the naming of agents since we take on a level of responsibility and liability for their actions; MHC's involvement in naming these agents was to provide the DNR with recommendations of falconers who would be capable of performing the tasks necessary, available and willing to perform the tasks necessary, and would hold themselves to a high standard of professional conduct while acting on behalf of the DNR. That being said, I can certainly discuss with the MHC how decisions are made as to who will receive the trapped birds; we do have the ability to determine what our agents can do under our authority, including transferring caught birds. If you have specific suggestions on an allocation process, please email them to me at clevelandk1@michigan.gov so that I can share them with our Endangered Species Coordinator and other staff working on this project.

Karen

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Does this mean that there are only "some" MI falconers who will be allowed to trap or take depredation merlins in MI.? What criteria did it take to get on that list?

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Originally Posted by Joby

Karen, any idea of adding merlins to the list? We just added them here and I know you had a depredation eyass take up there on merlins this past spring.

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As long as they're state listed, it's probably not going to get added to the list for take in the regular seasons. As long as they find piping plovers tasty, we'll have little problem getting the more conservative non-falconry stakeholders on this issue to buy into the idea of depredation take.

How unusual is this situation? I discussed the possibility of merlins older than 1 year being taken as part of this depredation with some of the higher ups in USFWS, and they were willing to waive that restriction for our depredation take into falconry possession if it helped us with our plover goals and avoiding lethal take of raptors (we got into the general subject of depredation take of random raptors into falconry and the potential value of including additional latitude at the federal level - don't know if it'll come to anything, but the idea is bouncing around the right heads now).

Karen

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Originally Posted by goshawks00

That's great, an eyas sharpie/coop/RT from Ohio would be cool....

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Unfortunately, that's pretty much all we've got available as far as nesting here. Oh yeah, we've also got red shoulders! lol

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Originally Posted by clevelandk1

As long as they're state listed, it's probably not going to get added to the list for take in the regular seasons. As long as they find piping plovers tasty, we'll have little problem getting the more conservative non-falconry stakeholders on this issue to buy into the idea of depredation take.

How unusual is this situation? I discussed the possibility of merlins older than 1 year being taken as part of this depredation with some of the higher ups in USFWS, and they were willing to waive that restriction for our depredation take into falconry possession if it helped us with our plover goals and avoiding lethal take of raptors (we got into the general subject of depredation take of random raptors into falconry and the potential value of including additional latitude at the federal level - don't know if it'll come to anything, but the idea is bouncing around the right heads now).

Karen

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Thanks for the clarification, Karen. Ohio just added merlins this past year, although we only have two permits for it (we're working on getting more added for next year). So, MI falconers can always come to Ohio for Merlins if they want.

Rey,
The names in the hat were not the listed agents who were authorized to trap the merlins. Those that wanted the merlins after they were trapped were drawn by random picks, not those that are listed to trap them.
Sue

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Originally Posted by Joby

Thanks for the clarification, Karen. Ohio just added merlins this past year, although we only have two permits for it (we're working on getting more added for next year). So, MI falconers can always come to Ohio for Merlins if they want.

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Ironically, more than two merlins were taken for falconry under this depredation program this year. So maybe Ohio falconers should sweet talk the Michigan falconers to see if they can get some birds sent south next year. ;)

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Originally Posted by Joby

Does this mean that there are only "some" MI falconers who will be allowed to trap or take depredation merlins in MI.? What criteria did it take to get on that list?

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We worked closely with folks in the MHC that we know well (we've worked on raptor conservation projects with some of these folks for well over a decade - heck, some of these folks are almost legendary in Michigan even outside falconry circles) to identify falconers that would fit our needs. This is a fairly typical way for us to work with stakeholder groups (ex. Ducks Unlimited, National Wild Turkey Federation, etc.) when we need volunteer assistance. I got to personally deliver the "screw up on this, and we'll drop you like a hot rock" speech to the folks selected since, as agents of the DNR, they're a bit like quasi-employees and could torpedo the entire project if they didn't act like consummate professionals throughout (they performed exceedingly well this year, fyi). The standards for behavior and accountability on this project are much higher than for general trapping of raptors for falconry. These folks all knew right from the get-go that we expected them to transfer many of these birds to other falconers and that this was basically a way for them to work actively to conserve this species while helping their fellow falconers get the chance to possess a wild merlin.

There seems to have cropped up a misconception in this conversation as it went along that this take falls into the same category as our other falconry take permits. It doesn't. The goal of our other take permits is to give Michigan's falconers an opportunity to take birds from the wild for use in falconry. The goal of the endangered species take is to protect two state listed bird species; the benefits to falconers are an ancillary (though positive) byproduct. In the case of the merlin take, the DNR has worked to identify the best way to meet its goals on this project, which don't include allowing as many falconers as possible the opportunity to trap a wild merlin, and came up with a system that put more wild merlins in the hands of falconers in Michigan than had been available in 2009.

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Originally Posted by Joby

Barry,
I'm just going on what I mentioned in my response to Aimee, which was when earlier this year someone mentioned about going for, I believe, a passage gos and when I mentioned an interest, I was told it was only allowed for MI falconers. Listen, I fully agree with you about eyass take here in Ohio. Some of our own ranks have been our biggest hurdle as well as the factor that we'd actually have to change the ohio revised code (an actual change of ohio laws that our state senate would have to vote on). Also, as I mentioned I know many of our falconers have gone to either PA, Indiana or KY for eyass takes, but I've never heard of anyone going to MI for an eyass take. Do you all even allow an eyass gos take for out of state residents? And if so, do out of staters have an equal opportunity to get one of those permits, or does that opportunity go to MI falconers first (which I would fully understand)?

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Oops..maybe I spoke too soon. I just talked to a falconer friend of mine from Indiana and he said his understanding was that MI always allowed non resident take of Gos, even eyasses. So, guess it was my mistake. One other thing that he did mention that was a bit disturbing was that all of the Merlins that weren't able to be trapped during the depredation efforts last year were "disposed of". What does that mean?

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Originally Posted by Joby

Oops..maybe I spoke too soon. I just talked to a falconer friend of mine from Indiana and he said his understanding was that MI always allowed non resident take of Gos, even eyasses. So, guess it was my mistake. One other thing that he did mention that was a bit disturbing was that all of the Merlins that weren't able to be trapped during the predation efforts last year were "disposed of" in a humane way. What does that mean?

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Historically, the only management action taken on merlins at these sites was lethal take (in this case shooting). There's a fairly broad Migratory Bird Permit issued annually by USFWS for taking predatory and scavenging birds from around piping plover nesting sites (plovers are endangered nationally, and there are some fairly aggressive management projects going on across the country to help keep this critter from going extinct). The shooting is done by staff from a federal agency that specializes in wildlife depredation issues (not USFWS).

It was at the instigation of the DNR that take for falconry was put on the table as a tool for removal of some of these birds, and it took us 2 years to get all of the federal agencies involved - there are 3 on this project - satisfied that we'd filed enough paperwork and made a compelling enough argument that this could work that they agreed to a pilot program for 2011 (a few of Michigan's falconers can attest to my love of some of our federal partners since I've subjected them to a couple of choice diatribes about the twists and turns of this process - although I think they found them humorous). It was our hope that the folks we selected as agents would do a good enough job (respond quickly, catch the merlins reliably, comport themselves professionally with both agency staff and the public) that we could make the argument to replace some level of shooting with take for falconry. The folks we used this year certainly did help make the case that this should be seen as a viable management tool.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Joby

Does this mean that there are only "some" MI falconers who will be allowed to trap or take depredation merlins in MI.? What criteria did it take to get on that list?

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Yes Joe it would appear that those holding position or those in the inner circle will/were allowed to partake in this massive undertaking. Wouldn't it be of interest to see they are. Once captured, 'the golden child', the chosen ones, will have full control and say over who will be allowed to own one of these, after all it was their blood sweat and tears that did the dirty work.

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Originally Posted by goshawks00

Yes Joe it would appear that those holding position or those in the inner circle will/were allowed to partake in this massive undertaking. Wouldn't it be of interest to see they are. Once captured, 'the golden child', the chosen ones, will have full control and say over who will be allowed to own one of these, after all it was their blood sweat and tears that did the dirty work.

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That doesn't seem very fair. Especially to the folks who've been falconers for a long time and who put in all of the original work to get the state regs where they're at.

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Originally Posted by clevelandk1

It was our hope that the folks we selected as agents would do a good enough job (respond quickly, catch the merlins reliably, comport themselves professionally with both agency staff and the public) that we could make the argument to replace some level of shooting with take for falconry. The folks we used this year certainly did help make the case that this should be seen as a viable management tool.

Karen

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Actually Karen, you shouldn't have had a need to shoot any Merlins, as I'm sure there were tons of falconers that would've jumped at the chance to have trapped ALL of your merlins at the drop of a hat. Just show 'em where the merlins territories are and they'd have 'em trapped and socked in no time flat.

"That being said, I can certainly discuss with the MHC how decisions are made as to who will receive the trapped birds"

sue, this is what i am replying too. not to who trap the birds.

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Originally Posted by goshawks00

Yes Joe it would appear that those holding position or those in the inner circle will/were allowed to partake in this massive undertaking. Wouldn't it be of interest to see they are. Once captured, 'the golden child', the chosen ones, will have full control and say over who will be allowed to own one of these, after all it was their blood sweat and tears that did the dirty work.

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Barry:

You are welcome to hold any opinion you'd like on the process of how our agents allocate merlins to falconers. However, I am still waiting for an email from you on a proposed alternative allocation process that I can send on to the other DNR staff working on this project. I can clearly see you're unhappy, but I need to know what sort of viable alternative would make you happier before it makes sense for us to consider possible changes. Despite what you think, the input of one person can affect how we meet our mission (some of the current recommended falconry regs changes were instigated by conversations with a single falconer - and some of those falconers were not members of the MHC).

Again, please send me an email at clevelandk1@michigan.gov with a succinct description of how you would suggest that merlins get allocated to falconers after being trapped by our agents.

Thanks
Karen

Thank you Karen for allowing me to express my opinion. I will give you a call soon as I find e-mails a bit monotone and static. That said I'll add this- I would think that birds ( whether merlins or any other depredating raptor) taken should be offered through the management office to those that show an interest in having them, through a lotto just as all the other 'sensitive' species are handled.

btw it's not about making me happy, it's about what is fair for all the falconers in Mich., there is a difference.

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Originally Posted by goshawks00

Thank you Karen for allowing me to express my opinion. I will give you a call soon as I find e-mails a bit monotone and static. That said I'll add this- I would think that birds ( whether merlins or any other depredating raptor) taken should be offered through the management office to those that show an interest in having them, through a lotto just as all the other 'sensitive' species are handled.

btw it's not about making me happy, it's about what is fair for all the falconers in Mich., there is a difference.

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yes for once me and barry see eye to eye and i agree there should be a lotto as to who wants what and the dnr or falconers that are in charge of trapping the problem birds should have a small idea of how many birds are going to be trapped each season or close number and do a lotto for the number of falconers needed to take the birds on and of course out of staters being allowed to apply as well.and i believe what barry has said to be fair is what he means

Can you guys and gals PLEASE watch how you are quoting people. I am having a real hard time fixing the quotes.

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Originally Posted by dirthawking

Can you guys and gals PLEASE watch how you are quoting people. I am having a real hard time fixing the quotes.

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As opposed to a fake hard time?crazyy

Just a quick update on the status of the regulations changes:

The changes were brought before the Natural Resources Commission for information at last week's meeting. The commissioners didn't have any questions, which is a good sign. A couple of folks from the Michigan Hawking Club spoke during the public comment portion of the meeting in support of the changes; they were well received by the commission, which is also a good sign. Nobody spoke against the recommended changes during the public comment period at the meeting.

The changes will be voted on by the NRC at their January meeting (12 January), and will take effect - if approved - on 13 January.

IMPORTANT:
If the changes are approved, the deadline for the goshawk and great-horned owl drawings will be pushed back to 15 January to accommodate the earlier spring trapping season opening date. This is also the deadline that will be used for the snowy owl drawing if take is approved. If you have an interest in entering any of these drawings (the goshawk and great-horned owl drawings are open to both residents and nonresidents), please be sure to apply BEFORE 15 January to ensure that you are in the drawing for 2012. Applications can be downloaded from http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7...0558--,00.html - you can write in "snowy owl" on the application to apply for that drawing. Please apply for each drawing on a separate application. Note that apprentices are not eligible to take these species in Michigan.

Karen

The Natural Resources Commission approved the proposed falconry regulations at their meeting yesterday.

If you want to apply for a northern goshawk, great horned owl, or snowy owl permit, the deadline is 15 January (this coming Sunday!), and the spring season (during which you can take eyasses or passage birds) opens on 1 February.

Karen

Karen, Thank you for all your work and communication with us. Will you be coming to the meet? With luck, not as much snow this year.
Sue

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Originally Posted by clevelandk1

The Natural Resources Commission approved the proposed falconry regulations at their meeting yesterday.

If you want to apply for a northern goshawk, great horned owl, or snowy owl permit, the deadline is 15 January (this coming Sunday!), and the spring season (during which you can take eyasses or passage birds) opens on 1 February.

Karen

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Congrats Michigan! Wish I could get up there to trap a goshawk, maybe one of these days!

Karen

thanks for all of the information. This discussion will be helpful to those in states still working on their regulation changes.

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Originally Posted by DirtHawker

Karen, Thank you for all your work and communication with us. Will you be coming to the meet? With luck, not as much snow this year.
Sue

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That's the plan. Which do you think would bring in more in the silent auction: a signed Michael Glenn Monroe peregrine print or the Gijsbert van Frankenhuyzen peregrine print from the Michigan Living Resources series?

And, hey! The snow was nice! It was so much easier to run the rabbits. And it made for one heck of a cardio workout. :)

Karen

Karen,

I hope you don't mind me adding a comment on the prints for the auction. They are both great! I would for sure bid on Gijsbert van Frankenhuyzen peregrine print.

Karen
I will defer to others regarding the prints, I am a dummy concerning art. But I will look forward to seeing all at the meet. And woo hoo my new RT got her first double on squirrels yesterday. She is finally on board I think.
Sue