Beebe and Webster - NAFA, when?

You guys need a break! Go check out this thread!

http://www.nafex.net/showthread.php?t=5138


toungeout

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Originally Posted by FredFogg

Mike, that is the million dollar question! I don't know the answers, but I can tell you one thing, you don't bail! The sad thing is falconers don't realize that NAFA and the feds hold hands. The feds decide what we can and can't do. We need to have the right people that will do what "we", the members as a majority, want done with falcorny in the U.S. If we let a select few decide for us, the majority isn't deciding what falconry is going to be in the future. My solution is communication! Everything that is going on and goes on needs to be made public. Every falconer should know and should get off their lazy asses and vote based on the facts. It is pitiful the number of members that vote each time there is a vote. We all want the silver lining but can't even take a few minutes to research the facts and then make a decision on what we have learned. What has happened to NAFA happens every day to corporations across the U.S., someone new comes in with ideas and aspirations to make things better, then they get NAFAsized and are told how things are and how they are done and they become just like the people that are already there. It happens in businesses, I have seen it at where I work. It happens in NAFA.

But the matter of Beebe and Webster, well, my opinion is just look at what they have done over the years, how could you not make them honarary members. Sure, they did stuff a long, long time ago that wasn't right. If anyone has done any research, they can find out about that. But my question is were they charged with a crime, were they convicted of a crime? NO, they weren't! To be honest, the laws back then were so unclear, no one could really say what was right or wrong. But the facts are they weren't convicted, so all those falconers that didn't like what they did, to bad. I think the good they have done far out weighs the bad and they should become honarary members. But to have a petition with the right amount of folks signing it be swept under the table, well, that just isn't right. And it can't be allowed to happen again. Name one falconry book that almost every falconer has in their library and/or was told to have and I bet it will be North American Falconry and Hunting Hawks. That in itself, should be enough to become honaray members!

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Fred,

is it just the feds and nafa that have this love affair?
i think the THA and the State of Texas have a wonderful relationship. but i think its more of keep your friends close and your enemies closer type thing, i think the THA is hugging the state and checking for weapons.
Texas is actually having older members of THA help adopt the new regs. I email the licensing agent often just to see if she is ok.
So are things that different outside of texas?
or am i blind to something here in texas?

as for breaking laws, big deal. unless it was absolutely hanus crime, you said it great, every falconer on here has at least 1 of there books, so if their that bad everyone send their copy of NAFAH to me so i can corner the market on them and retire now!!

there are falconers who have broken the rules of falconry in NAFA now, so why is it any different for them? a rule is a rule, shouldnt matter what the rule was that was broken.

had AIG give $1.00 bonus instead of $1 million dollar bonus, would it make a difference? it shouldnt, you should be mad if they received a $.10 bonus, it was our tax money no matter what, tax it 90% and get that $.09 back.

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Originally Posted by wyodjm

I headed NAFA's Eagle Committee for over 10 years. I was a major player. We have eagles now. I always thought of myself as a falconer's falconer. I guess some of NAFA's new leadership thinks differently.

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I wasn't aware that you'd dropped NAFA membership and you're absolutely right- at least the last time I was semi-involved- you WERE a "major player." For you to drop NAFA is a powerful statement, IMHO.

I had to look at some of the posts on here twice to make sure I hadnt read them wrong.
Committees, the beaurocratic alternative to achieving something!!

Below is a message I just posted on the Oregon Falconers Assn. web site which included the link and message (by Mike Dupuy) that appeared at the beginning of this thread. NAFA president Dan Cecchini lives in Bend, Oregon and is an OFA member.

Richard F. Hoyer (Corvallis, Oregon)

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"This morning, I received the following link and message from a long time NAFA member from Texas. This same link and message recently appeared on the North American Falconers Exchange forum. OFA members can access the NAFEX site to view the comments made by other falconers.

However, to reach an informed position, it is best to be exposed to both sides of issues. Thus, I hope NAFA president Dan Cecchini will be so kind as to provide a response which could then be transmitted throughout the falconry community."

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Originally Posted by Mitchellbrad

I quit em. Didn't go out like a lion or screaming, kick'n and hollering, just dropped my membership and forgot about it. I quit WRTC too. I'm tired of fighting battles when the biggest advisary has a hawk on his fist. No siree I'm not fighting falconers!!! I'm certainly not alone either. Does my leaving along with some other long time NAFA members matter? Probably not. It simply isn't important to us anymore.

If you notice I hardly bitch anymore nor do I post on anything confrontational. Been there then asked myself why.

Gone hawk'n instead of just a talk'n.

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That's why I've always liked you Brad. You've always been smarter than me. :)

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Originally Posted by wyodjm

That's why I've always liked you Brad. You've always been smarter than me. :)

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I don't think it's a question of being smarter Dan<G> If I'd made a stink they would have pointed towards the door and told me to use it. Provided anyone bothered to notice.

Nah, it simply isn't worth it. I'm more interested in flying my birds than anything else.

Brad

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Originally Posted by Mitchellbrad

I don't think it's a question of being smarter Dan<G> If I'd made a stink they would have pointed towards the door and told me to use it. Provided anyone bothered to notice.

Nah, it simply isn't worth it. I'm more interested in flying my birds than anything else.

Brad

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I agree. I won't fight with falconers anymore either. Or should I say against the ivory towers that some of them dwell in! I never should have. I'm more interested in flying my birds also.

BTW, I just wrote a donation check to the NRA. I'd rather put money into an organization that supports me and what I like to do. Own a gun and hunt! :)

ATB,

Dan

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Originally Posted by wyodjm

I agree. I won't fight with falconers anymore either. Or should I say against the ivory towers that some of them dwell in! I never should have. I'm more interested in flying my birds also.

BTW, I just wrote a donation check to the NRA. I'd rather put money into an organization that supports me and what I like to do. Own a gun and hunt! :)

ATB,

Dan

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I'm a NRA member too!!!

Brad

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Originally Posted by wyodjm

I agree. I won't fight with falconers anymore either. Or should I say against the ivory towers that some of them dwell in! I never should have. I'm more interested in flying my birds also.

BTW, I just wrote a donation check to the NRA. I'd rather put money into an organization that supports me and what I like to do. Own a gun and hunt! :)

ATB,

Dan

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Hi Dan,
So when your current falconry Goldies are gone, will that be the end of your golden eagle falconry? Will you let it slip under, no more fight?

I recently sent my check to Gun Owners Of America, they say they are 'no compromise', something I fear from the NRA, guess we will see.

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Originally Posted by sharptail

Hi Dan,
So when your current falconry Goldies are gone, will that be the end of your golden eagle falconry? Will you let it slip under, no more fight?

I recently sent my check to Gun Owners Of America, they say they are 'no compromise', something I fear from the NRA, guess we will see.

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That's the nice thing about America. You may send money to whatever organization you wish. Your money, your choice.

I don't know you. With all due respect, please don't be too concerned about me having access to golden eagles for falconry. I'm not worried. Besides, I can always fly a passage goshawk on rabbits and ducks. :)

BTW, I've always thought the use of the term goldie, was dumb. :)

Cheers,

DM

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Originally Posted by wyodjm

That's the nice thing about America. You may send money to whatever organization you wish. Your money, your choice.

I don't know you. With all due respect, please don't be too concerned about me having access to golden eagles for falconry. I'm not worried. Besides, I can always fly a passage goshawk on rabbits and ducks. :)

BTW, I've always thought the use of the term goldie, was dumb. :)

Cheers,

DM

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Odd, we have spoken on a couple of occasions!

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Originally Posted by sharptail

Odd, we have spoken on a couple of occasions!

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Ummm, sorry.

DM

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Originally Posted by Mitchellbrad

I don't think it's a question of being smarter Dan<G> If I'd made a stink they would have pointed towards the door and told me to use it. Provided anyone bothered to notice.

Nah, it simply isn't worth it. I'm more interested in flying my birds than anything else.

Brad

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Well. I've been reading this thread...all of it....can't say I'm not ready to roll over and just go fly my birds and say the hell with it just yet. But I always preached " you should join the 'insert state club' and support NAFA. Now, I have 2 sons in this. One is 18, a first year apprentice( with 8 years hands on), the other is 14, with close to 6. What example am I setting by quitting?
I went to see an old friend/apprentice and his gyr & finnish gos projects last weekend. The conversation eventually hit politics, and aside from being stunned by my son's comments & insites, I was more amazed that I had no answers to his quandries. The hour drive home didn't help answer his questions eitherfrus. "how do we get directors in place that serve those that elected them, and vote accordingly, and not to their personal interests and benefit ?" "how can this club(NAFA) continue if 500 members quit the first of the year in protest?"..."Who's going to be left for me to learn from when you're gone, if all the ol' timers/experienced people take their ball and go home ?" What would you all have said? I understand the grievances,transgretions, the offenses taken, and the general 'talking to the wall' feeling-like I said, I've been close. I just don't see how to fix it from the outside, granted I'm pressuming it's wanted to be fixed. Not sure I can make much of a difference, but for awhile, I'll stick it out and try. And for those that are questioning my sanity, yes I hear voices... I just don't answer back-out loud;).
This is a lot of typing with a bird on the fist and late with an hour of sign painting left to do.

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Originally Posted by Mitchellbrad

I don't think it's a question of being smarter Dan<G> If I'd made a stink they would have pointed towards the door and told me to use it. Provided anyone bothered to notice.

Nah, it simply isn't worth it. I'm more interested in flying my birds than anything else.

Brad

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Brad:
I guess the importanted thing is we can fly our birds. There is not a club on this earth where everyone get to vote on every single issue, None.
I think the people that do not know what Webster did should contact the Wy. court and fine out for themselves. It was a long time ago, but it may have effected what is going on today. JMO.

How many of you have gotten a speeding ticket? Then paid your fine and moved on, or received a DUI. You broke the law and paid for it. But you are still allowed to own and drive a car.Its the same thing. I think his contribution outways the offense. That being said I think it should be up to the members to vote on it and thats a real shame that we will never be allowed to because of the power struggle within NAFA. Members have been tryin for years to vote out the troublesome members but old loyalties run deep. I would like to have voted in this last elction but never received a ballot. (again). I think it would be better to let NAFA die and start a new national club.The USFWS does not hold NAFA in as high a regard as NAFA would like to think. JMO

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Originally Posted by everetkhorton

Brad:
I guess the importanted thing is we can fly our birds. There is not a club on this earth where everyone get to vote on every single issue, None.
I think the people that do not know what Webster did should contact the Wy. court and fine out for themselves. It was a long time ago, but it may have effected what is going on today. JMO.

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Ev,

I know exactly what Webster did! That's not important because he paid for his stupidity. What's important is people remember the good Frank and Hal did. Too much hate and I can assure you it's hate, soul burning hate against those two. What Hal did has no bearing on what is going on today on the federal level. What's going on with falconers is altogether a different thing, none will forget their real and imagined hate against those two. No Thank You, I'll have no part of an organization with a level of hate against people ingrained so deeply it's rotting the very center of it's core

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Originally Posted by Mitchellbrad

Ev,

I know exactly what Webster did! That's not important because he paid for his stupidity. What's important is people remember the good Frank and Hal did. Too much hate and I can assure you it's hate, soul burning hate against those two. What Hal did has no bearing on what is going on today on the federal level. What's going on with falconers is altogether a different thing, none will forget their real and imagined hate against those two. No Thank You, I'll have no part of an organization with a level of hate against people ingrained so deeply it's rotting the very center of it's core

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I agree Brad. Well written.

ATB,

Dan

Interesting thread with some strong opinions and some good examples of what I think of as the falconer stereotype. This isnt intended as a slight to anyone as I am as guilty of this as the majority of falconers. My observation is this you give two falconers a piece of rope and they will pull in opposite directions, we are just a independant ornery bunch it's inbuilt into most falconers natures.
I think that falconry has come of age in the USA and now there is a desire to maintain the status quo and dont rock the boat. The reality is real boats rock and if it doesn't get a good shakeup once in while it becomes stagnant. Beurocratic types hate turmoil and fight it tooth and nail even if the end result will make things better.
What Nafa really needs to serve American falconers are folks who make things happen, every year they should be polling members asking what they want, what they fear will affect thier falconry and going after it. But that means members have to be involved or the placators and paper shufflers rise to the top. Sure we have gained a lot and it is scary to risk that but you have to stick your neck out and take a risk every once in while.

All the best

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Originally Posted by outhawkn

How many of you have gotten a speeding ticket? Then paid your fine and moved on, or received a DUI. You broke the law and paid for it. But you are still allowed to own and drive a car.Its the same thing. I think his contribution outways the offense. That being said I think it should be up to the members to vote on it and thats a real shame that we will never be allowed to because of the power struggle within NAFA. Members have been tryin for years to vote out the troublesome members but old loyalties run deep. I would like to have voted in this last elction but never received a ballot. (again). I think it would be better to let NAFA die and start a new national club.The USFWS does not hold NAFA in as high a regard as NAFA would like to think. JMO

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Unfortunately, I think NAFA serves the USFWS as a rubber stamp of approval while not even being concerned about the basic RIGHTS, hard won and long established in this country. It does not serve what the majority of falconers would like to see or deserve, which is the maximum freedom within the constraints that the resource will safely allow. The MBTA needs to be revisited on a conflict of (basic) laws basis, along with the validity of the USFWS' mission statement. The 'people' in this country were ment to rule, not the government, and NAFA has become the govn't tool to subvert this.

Beebe and Webster are what they are and as Brad said, we remember the good, generally, with a few that hold old festering grudges. As the board has pointed out, they have honored these 2 with an award. I have no doubt that there plaques will honor them on the "Wall of Rememberance" at the Archives. To me, Beebe and Webster are whom they are and are not the issue, but an example of what the issue is, as is the Golden Eagle(just for you Dan, allmost put goldie.) issue.

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Originally Posted by sharptail

Unfortunately, I think NAFA serves the USFWS as a rubber stamp of approval while not even being concerned about the basic RIGHTS, hard won and long established in this country. It does not serve what the majority of falconers would like to see or deserve, which is the maximum freedom within the constraints that the resource will safely allow. The MBTA needs to be revisited on a conflict of (basic) laws basis, along with the validity of the USFWS' mission statement. The 'people' in this country were ment to rule, not the government, and NAFA has become the govn't tool to subvert this.

Beebe and Webster are what they are and as Brad said, we remember the good, generally, with a few that hold old festering grudges. As the board has pointed out, they have honored these 2 with an award. I have no doubt that there plaques will honor them on the "Wall of Rememberance" at the Archives. To me, Beebe and Webster are whom they are and are not the issue, but an example of what the issue is, as is the Golden Eagle(just for you Dan, allmost put goldie.) issue.

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Well put. I don't have any answers. I'm burned out. But again, well put. I agree with what you wrote.

ATB,

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Originally Posted by wyodjm

Well put. I don't have any answers. I'm burned out. But again, well put. I agree with what you wrote.

ATB,

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I too am burned out. What's past is past. If one dwells on the mistakes of past there will be no future. One has to be a student of history so the same mistakes aren't made a second or third time but it does no one any good to live in the past.

Brad

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Originally Posted by Mitchellbrad

I too am burned out. What's past is past. If one dwells on the mistakes of past there will be no future. One has to be a student of history so the same mistakes aren't made a second or third time but it does no one any good to live in the past.

Brad

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Forgive me but, one foot in the grave is it? How much effort could it be to sign up and cast a few votes? I am not asking you to take on the board with knife and tooth.

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Originally Posted by sharptail

Forgive me but, one foot in the grave is it? How much effort could it be to sign up and cast a few votes? I am not asking you to take on the board with knife and tooth.

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Cheers Jeff, :)

Dan

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Originally Posted by Mitchellbrad

I too am burned out. What's past is past. If one dwells on the mistakes of past there will be no future. One has to be a student of history so the same mistakes aren't made a second or third time but it does no one any good to live in the past.

Brad

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I am all about putting the past in the past, but when just recently (the past), a petition (and this could be any petition that met the required number to be voted on) was slid under the table, then you have to bring the past up and get it corrected so it doesn't happen in the future. And that basically, is what this entire thread is about! The members of NAFA have to stand up and stop this kind of stuff. I personally think that all involved that allowed this to happen should be kicked off the board of NAFA. They broke the bylaws and shouldn't be allowed to serve. But the problem is not enough falconers will take a stand, they just want to do their falconry (me included). So the problem will probably never be fixed! Just my opinion! confusedd and crazyy

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Originally Posted by FredFogg

I am all about putting the past in the past, but when just recently (the past), a petition (and this could be any petition that met the required number to be voted on) was slid under the table, then you have to bring the past up and get it corrected so it doesn't happen in the future. And that basically, is what this entire thread is about! The members of NAFA have to stand up and stop this kind of stuff. I personally think that all involved that allowed this to happen should be kicked off the board of NAFA. They broke the bylaws and shouldn't be allowed to serve. But the problem is not enough falconers will take a stand, they just want to do their falconry (me included). So the problem will probably never be fixed! Just my opinion! confusedd and crazyy

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It's sad what NAFA has become. There comes a time, however, when all this negativity has to end and you have to move on. We all have lives and families. We practice falconry as individuals. It's about flying our birds. At the end of the day, it's just you and your bird. NAFA is a nonevent.

ATB,

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Originally Posted by wyodjm

It's sad what NAFA has become. There comes a time, however, when all this negativity has to end and you have to move on. We all have lives and families. We practice falconry as individuals. It's about flying our birds. At the end of the day, it's just you and your bird. NAFA is a nonevent.

ATB,

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I totally agree it is all about flying our birds, I would love to just do that. But to say NAFA is a nonevent, well, when they persuade the Feds to change the regs to something that won't allow you to fly your eagles or some other stupid regulation, then it is no longer a nonevent. And yeah, sure, you can still fly them, we all can fly any bird we want, but do we really want to be looking over our shoulder the entire time we are flying? I would like to keep it legal and the only way to do that is to make sure NAFA does what the majority wants. That isn't happening now. And for anyone to think they don't have influence with the Feds, well, they are living in a dream world.

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Originally Posted by FredFogg

...But the problem is not enough falconers will take a stand...

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A quote comes to mind...

"Stand with anybody that stands right, stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong."
--- Abraham Lincoln

Many have parted with NAFA.

For me personally, rather than brood over what I can't change: "For peace of mind, resign as general manager of the universe."
--- Larry Eisenberg

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Originally Posted by FredFogg

I totally agree it is all about flying our birds, I would love to just do that. But to say NAFA is a nonevent, well, when they persuade the Feds to change the regs to something that won't allow you to fly your eagles or some other stupid regulation, then it is no longer a nonevent. And yeah, sure, you can still fly them, we all can fly any bird we want, but do we really want to be looking over our shoulder the entire time we are flying? I would like to keep it legal and the only way to do that is to make sure NAFA does what the majority wants. That isn't happening now. And for anyone to think they don't have influence with the Feds, well, they are living in a dream world.

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This isn't going anywhere. NAFA doesn't have as much pull with the feds as many people are saying. That's propaganda and it's fear mongering.

I was a member of NAFA for over 30 years. I also worked with the feds and several states regarding eagles for over 20 years on NAFA's and Wyoming's behalf. I'm saying this as politely as I can. NAFA doesn't have that much pull with the Feds. Certain individuals within NAFA may have certain working relationships with certain feds, but that's about the extent of it. But, so do I. I also have a working relationship my state Game and Fish Dept. That doesn't mean anything.

Here's the bottom line. Down the road, if NAFA continues on its current path of inner sanctum, ivory tower politics, it will be just happy when the membership dwindles down to perhaps under a thousand of dues paying, no questions asked, no confrontation members. NAFA doesn't represent the majority of licensed falconers. It probably doesn't want to because it would have to be more accountable.

The majority of licensed falconers in the U.S. currently don't belong to NAFA. Say what you will, but you can't argue with the math. NAFA isn't a falconers' union or a religious cult. It's just a club. In my opinion, it has very little credibility. If NAFA ever changes, I'll join again. So would 1,000+ other people.

I'm not trying to argue with people. I'm just trying to provide solid information. There's so much bad information out there. NAFA just is what it is.

Dan, if you and that 1,000 other falconers would join NAFA, maybe we could make that change. It will never happen with the current membership!

On the Oregon Falconer's Assn. web site, I asked NAFA president Dan Cecchini to respond to the information that appeared in the initial post by Fred that began this tread. Dan Cecchini has declined to respond.

The failure of the NAFA leadership to be accountable is disturbing. This is the second time NAFA leadership has refused to explain their actions. Last year during the badly botched 'Private Property' issue, a majority of the NAFA board and Dan Cecchini failed to respond or explain.

As for the current controversy with the 'petition' issue, the NAFA leadership portrayed the petition process as badly flawed. The 'fix' they proposed was not to just double the number of required signatures but to increase the number FIVE FOLD. The realities of such a drastic change has been to effectively kill the petition process thereby removing any rational chance for members to be heard through that process.

It can be noted that such an outcome was not mentioned by Dan in his communications to the NAFA membership. So two question come to mind. Was the board members that approved the ballot measure and Dan Cecchini consciously aware they were scuttling the petition process? Or is the NAFA leadership so inept that they failed to consider the potential consequences?

The link in Fred's post contains a chronology of events by attorney Mathew Gould. If you click on Mr. Gould's letter of 11/21/08, his last paragraph provides a reasoned analysis of the petition situation. With Dan Cecchini refusing to respond, one is left with the understanding that 1), the portrayal of events and conclusions reached by Mr. Gould are reasonable and accurate and 2), by not responding, Dan Cecchini is essentially conceding that fact.

Last year, the same NAFA leadership badly botched the handling of the 'Private Property' (of falconry birds) issue and now is following-up with a similar encore with this 'petition issue. So once again, I have concluded that the conduct of the current NAFA leadership is unsatisfactory and unacceptable.

Around the end of 2007 or early 2008, on this forum I urge all falconers to consider joining NAFA as representation is important and there is strength in numbers. Sadly, in the aftermath of what transpired last year and now this year, in good conscious I can no longer advocate joining NAFA. And in fact, I would advise just the opposite or at least wait until a more responsive and responsible leadership emerges. Even though I began my NAFA membership in 1962, with the current sad state of affairs, I am inclined to just let my membership lapse next year.

Finally, I am aware that I could be all wet in the above considerations and viewpoint. But before I offer an apology, in rational terms it needs to be pointed out just where I have made my mistakes.

Richard F. Hoyer (Corvallis, Oregon)

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Originally Posted by Richard F, Hoyer

Sadly, in the aftermath of what transpired last year and now this year, in good conscious I can no longer advocate joining NAFA. And in fact, I would advise just the opposite or at least wait until a more responsive and responsible leadership emerges. Even though I began my NAFA membership in 1962, with the current sad state of affairs, I am inclined to just let my membership lapse next year.
Richard F. Hoyer (Corvallis, Oregon)

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I think your in good company, a lot of us did that.

Recently a friend asked me why I dropped out. After I told him some of the same things you mentioned he replied with, "Don't you want to keep an eye on the enemy?" That floored me although I now consider it not too far out of line.

Brad

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Originally Posted by Richard F, Hoyer

On the Oregon Falconer's Assn. web site, I asked NAFA president Dan Cecchini to respond to the information that appeared in the initial post by Fred that began this tread. Dan Cecchini has declined to respond.

The failure of the NAFA leadership to be accountable is disturbing. This is the second time NAFA leadership has refused to explain their actions. Last year during the badly botched 'Private Property' issue, a majority of the NAFA board and Dan Cecchini failed to respond or explain.

As for the current controversy with the 'petition' issue, the NAFA leadership portrayed the petition process as badly flawed. The 'fix' they proposed was not to just double the number of required signatures but to increase the number FIVE FOLD. The realities of such a drastic change has been to effectively kill the petition process thereby removing any rational chance for members to be heard through that process.

It can be noted that such an outcome was not mentioned by Dan in his communications to the NAFA membership. So two question come to mind. Was the board members that approved the ballot measure and Dan Cecchini consciously aware they were scuttling the petition process? Or is the NAFA leadership so inept that they failed to consider the potential consequences?

The link in Fred's post contains a chronology of events by attorney Mathew Gould. If you click on Mr. Gould's letter of 11/21/08, his last paragraph provides a reasoned analysis of the petition situation. With Dan Cecchini refusing to respond, one is left with the understanding that 1), the portrayal of events and conclusions reached by Mr. Gould are reasonable and accurate and 2), by not responding, Dan Cecchini is essentially conceding that fact.

Last year, the same NAFA leadership badly botched the handling of the 'Private Property' (of falconry birds) issue and now is following-up with a similar encore with this 'petition issue. So once again, I have concluded that the conduct of the current NAFA leadership is unsatisfactory and unacceptable.

Around the end of 2007 or early 2008, on this forum I urge all falconers to consider joining NAFA as representation is important and there is strength in numbers. Sadly, in the aftermath of what transpired last year and now this year, in good conscious I can no longer advocate joining NAFA. And in fact, I would advise just the opposite or at least wait until a more responsive and responsible leadership emerges. Even though I began my NAFA membership in 1962, with the current sad state of affairs, I am inclined to just let my membership lapse next year.

Finally, I am aware that I could be all wet in the above considerations and viewpoint. But before I offer an apology, in rational terms it needs to be pointed out just where I have made my mistakes.

Richard F. Hoyer (Corvallis, Oregon)

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Powerful. And from a charter member of NAFA. You have my respect.

My very best to you,

Dan McCarron

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Originally Posted by Mitchellbrad

I think your in good company, a lot of us did that.

Recently a friend asked me why I dropped out. After I told him some of the same things you mentioned he replied with, "Don't you want to keep an eye on the enemy?" That floored me although I now consider it not too far out of line.

Brad

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"Keep your friends close....and your enemies closer."

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Originally Posted by Lowachi

"Keep your friends close....and your enemies closer."

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Yep, there was a lot of wisdom in Sun-tzu.