New Product Announcement: GPS

[rkumetz]

So this wouldn't work?
http://www.microwavetelemetry.com/bi...gosGPS_17g.cfm

If i understand this you pay a $30 a month data fee click on the "price" link on this page to see more http://www.microwavetelemetry.com/bird/GSM.cfm

That does what you think it does however the Argos satellite is not for private use. It is a research program and you can only use it for approved purposes:

The Argos Operations Committee will check that your program is compatible with the environmental mission of the Argos system. After acceptation of your request, we will send you a Purchase Order (equivalent to argos services contracts)

The purchase order part sort of indicates that it is not FREE so there is that issue as well.

http://www.argos-system.org/web/en/2...ome-a-user.php

[rkumetz]

Couldn't you just pay a couple of thousand and get a transmitter like that? Just like Island Girl has. Put a Holohill on it as well for close up tracking.

For those who are curious here is a link to the Argos system web page:

http://www.argos-system.org

[Captain Gizmo]

So this wouldn't work?
http://www.microwavetelemetry.com/bi...gosGPS_17g.cfm

If i understand this you pay a $30 a month data fee click on the "price" link on this page to see more http://www.microwavetelemetry.com/bird/GSM.cfm

Isaac,

Basically--NO.

Read the acronyms. GSM is Group Special Mobile' (it's actually in French). This just means European cell phone system. Put a solar charged tag on your study animal. The tag determines and records it's position every so often from GPS (Global Positioning System). Every so often when it is in the coverage area of a GSM cell tower it downloads it's recorded position list to a central facility. The central facility then sends your computer the data file of where the animal has been for the last days or weeks. The GSM data files can also be downloaded to AT&T or T-Mobile in North America and to a patchwork of other systems worldwide.

This is a research tool intended to tell you where your study animal has been, not where it is.

For a version of this type of tool for falconry any of the GSM based falconry locator tags strive for close to real time position transfer. It is often possible to get a position in less than 10 minutes from placing a request and the data will usually include a fresh position when delivered.

[rkumetz]

Isaac,

Basically--NO.

Read the acronyms. GSM is Group Special Mobile' (it's actually in French). This just means European cell phone system. Put a solar charged tag on your study animal. The tag determines and records it's position every so often from GPS (Global Positioning System). Every so often when it is in the coverage area of a GSM cell tower it downloads it's recorded position list to a central facility. The central facility then sends your computer the data file of where the animal has been for the last days or weeks. The GSM data files can also be downloaded to AT&T or T-Mobile in North America and to a patchwork of other systems worldwide.

This is a research tool intended to tell you where your study animal has been, not where it is.

For a version of this type of tool for falconry any of the GSM based falconry locator tags strive for close to real time position transfer. It is often possible to get a position in less than 10 minutes from placing a request and the data will usually include a fresh position when delivered.

I thought the one he linked to was an Argos PTT. Is it GSM?

[Captain Gizmo]

If you want an ONGOING view of where your falcon is RIGHT NOW you have to use a Direct Radio Link (Direct Connect Design as MRT calls it). I call this the "Convenience Mode". Direct radio link also works for short and medium range "Recovery Mode", keeping in mind that this is a radio signal just like a Beep and has all the same problems with dropping behind a hill, down in a canyon, etc. Note:reflections are not a problem, the location is in the data and the receiver does not care what direction it came from. I agree with MRT's choice that all methods should be backed up by a standard Beep. A Beep will go 2 to 3 times as far as data on the same transmitter power. Follow the beep on a medium range recovery until you are close enough to get a data signal and then use the GPS to close in.

MRT has chosen to go with the direct radio link to give the falconer the RIGHT NOW of where their falcon IS, with the convenience and utility of this mode.

The cell phone based tags shine in the long range Recovery Mode (if you have cell coverage at BOTH the falcon and the falconer). They do the Convenience Mode poorly.

[BestBeagler]

Not for falconry for long term hack. Seems you need permission though to use the system. Guess you could make friends with a researcher and get an in that way (maybe).

[Captain Gizmo]

I thought the one he linked to was an Argos PTT. Is it GSM?

The Microwave Telemetry website talks mainly about GSM based wildlife tags. I did not read in sufficient detail to see if they also do Argos capable tags. Both have essentially nothing to do with either falconry tags in general or with the current MRT offering.

[rkumetz]

The Microwave Telemetry website talks mainly about GSM based wildlife tags. I did not read in sufficient detail to see if they also do Argos capable tags. Both have essentially nothing to do with either falconry tags in general or with the current MRT offering.

Take a look. I am pretty sure he linked to an Argos PTT. If they have figured out how to sell GSM tags for $4000 then I am quitting my day job and going into that line of business!

[Captain Gizmo]

I went originally to the web page in the body of the text, which took me to the GSM based tags from Microwave Telemetry. Going to the web page in the header took me to their Argos 17 gram PTT (Platform Terminal Transmitter)

Once again for all concerned: Argos gives daily or weekly updates on where your study animal HAS BEEN.
No real time positions.
No position on demand.
Researchers snivel about Argos air time consuming a significant portion of their budget.

Finally, what does any of this have to do with MRT and their "Direct Connect Design"

Let's move this discussion over to the open section of "Telemetry", perhaps start a thread for "Why Argos does not and can not work for falconry".

[BestBeagler]

I went originally to the web page in the body of the text, which took me to the GSM based tags from Microwave Telemetry. Going to the web page in the header took me to their Argos 17 gram PTT (Platform Terminal Transmitter)

Once again for all concerned: Argos gives daily or weekly updates on where your study animal HAS BEEN.
No real time positions.
No position on demand.
Researchers snivel about Argos air time consuming a significant portion of their budget.

Finally, what does any of this have to do with MRT and their "Direct Connect Design"

Let's move this discussion over to the open section of "Telemetry", perhaps start a thread for "Why Argos does not and can not work for falconry".

NOT FOR FALCONRY. For long term hack. Use this (if you can) to get within range that you can pick up a signal on a Hollohil transmitter or other potted transmitter.

[BestBeagler]

Marshall is AWESOME!!! Their new video https://vimeo.com/131277736
I hope the next video addresses accuracy of the data received.

[RLBagley]

We have worked to unfold the "How it works" and design information in digestible chunks to interested customers through a series of weekly video shorts linked there on the Marshall Radio Facebook Page.

We realized that we may have left out a good number you guys here on NAFEX, as not everybody uses or peruses FaceBook.

Anyway, we are planning 4-5 in total, then we'll combine them and leave the entire thing on the regular Marshall Radio Website.

First was the RT-GPS Design, last week, a visual demonstration of how much has gone in to an extremely tiny package.

Second is the PocketLink Design uploaded today. This data transceiver is the hub and designed be used as either part of a car-system, or taken with you on long walks if needed.

Third will be the AeroVision Mapping Software we've developed to see and manage it all.

Those three components make it possible, and when used with the UHF Field Marshall tracking receiver, and secondary transmitter you've got a redundant setup that should be the new ideal.

The fourth in the series is to be about the "User Experiences" where falconers who have been helping us field test last year try to explain how it's changed their understanding of how GPS can affect their falconry experience. Last year we viewed it as just a cool training tool, but our perspective has completely changed now.

This should be a very entertaining season and when looking back, we think a historic moment in falconry history.

RB

[Tony James]

Hi Robert,

excuse a question from someone with little understanding of 'Hi-Tec', but in regard to the i-phone/i-pad, are there particular models of either that are compatible or to be preferred?

I'm assuming an i-phone tucked in a shirt pocket is the practical thing to use in the field for most of us, and an i-pad/MacBook/iMac would be useful for later analysis and entertainment?

Best wishes,

Tony.

PS Having watched the videos so far, I'm in awe, not just of the system itself, but of the manufacturing processes.
35 years ago I used to sit watching Jim Chick making transmitters in his shed, using a soldering iron and suchlike. I imagined at the time that things were as high tech as it was possible to be!

[ian p]

also i was wondering would this system work ok on some of the less exspesive type tablets such here in the uk theres the hudle 2 which my two girls have does everthing an ipad can and is 99 quid atb ian

[nebli]

as we've been explained that gps on the lines used for research like island girl can't give more than 3 or 4 signals a day because of energy consumption, I wander how this one was done

[Shehawker]

Loving all this so far Rob. I do have a question on the data usage of the mapping app. Does it need to use phone data to get a real time view in the feild and if so how much?

I imagine that this will be covered when The next video is released but thought I'd ask just in case.

[Captain Gizmo]

as we've been explained that gps on the lines used for research like island girl can't give more than 3 or 4 signals a day because of energy consumption, I wander how this one was done

The Tag on the study animal can record multiple positions with time stamps from the GPS as often as the energy budget will allow. The PTT then uploads all of the recorded positions and times for that day or week to the Argos Satellite in one transmission. When the satellite passes over one of the control stations in the US or France the data is downloaded. The downloaded data is processed and sent to the computer of the user, usually in less than 24 hours if they have requested "near real time" service.

The GPS fixes can be very frequent. The MRT RT-GPS can do a fix per second. The "Direct Connect Design" radio link can send the data immediately to the falconer's receiver. The energy budget allows over an hour of rapid updates while still leaving enough battery to do three days of slow updates for recovery of a lost falcon

There is further discussion of Argos under other threads in the Telemetry forum.

[Captain Gizmo]

as we've been explained that gps on the lines used for research like island girl can't give more than 3 or 4 signals a day because of energy consumption, I wander how this one was done

Juan,

If you look at the map it shows when the PTT uploaded to the Argos satellite. Although we have detailed tracks of where two study animals had been for over a month the whole thing was done using a total of five reports of the recorded GPS fixes from the PPTs to the Argos satellite. That means that for at least one of the study animals the interval between reports was at least two weeks.

[RLBagley]

Well, the Third Installment of the Weekly Video Series has now been uploaded.

Some of you will enjoy this, I believe.

RB

[BestBeagler]

Will we be able to view realtime data streaming in 3D with the map being 3D as well?

[Chris L.]

Robert,

Truly amazing my friend! You guys are changing how we will practice falconry forever. This will take our falconry to a whole new level. That is pretty damn cool, congrats!

This is why Marshall is the best in the industry and continues to be the leader.

[RLBagley]

For those interested and ready, Pre-Orders for the RT-GPS, PocketLink, AeroVision App will open midnight tonight (Mountain Standard Time) through the on-line store only, on the US and EU Sections of the Marshall Radio Website

Additional specs and details can be found there.

Orders will be shipped beginning September in the order they are received. Of course our 30-Day Satisfaction Guarantee Policy applies to this product as well as all others.

Please note the initial AeroVision Mapping App is primarily designed for the way we train and hunt falcons in the US and EU and will be available only in those regions.

A very different AeroVision is intended for our Gulf Customers which will more closely align with the different metrics and performance options they have asked for in Race Training.

Look for news about it's features and design to be uploaded later in July to the "Marshall Radio Gulf" FB Page, with deliveries planned for the ADIHEX Show in September.

But thanks to all you positive North Americans for the excitement and feedback. It's my firm belief you will not be disappointed. . . .

RB

[sugezwolf]

For those interested and ready, Pre-Orders for the RT-GPS, PocketLink, AeroVision App will open midnight tonight (Mountain Standard Time) through the on-line store only, on the US and EU Sections of the Marshall Radio Website

Additional specs and details can be found there.

Orders will be shipped beginning September in the order they are received. Of course our 30-Day Satisfaction Guarantee Policy applies to this product as well as all others.

Please note the initial AeroVision Mapping App is primarily designed for the way we train and hunt falcons in the US and EU and will be available only in those regions.

A very different AeroVision is intended for our Gulf Customers which will more closely align with the different metrics and performance options they have asked for in Race Training.

Look for news about it's features and design to be uploaded later in July to the "Marshall Radio Gulf" FB Page, with deliveries planned for the ADIHEX Show in September.

But thanks to all you positive North Americans for the excitement and feedback. It's my firm belief you will not be disappointed. . . .

RB

Thanks Robert - as a Marshall customer for 17 years I put my faith where I believed was appropriate and am now eagerly awaiting delivery!

Gerry x

[goshawkr]

Well, the Third Installment of the Weekly Video Series has now been uploaded.

Some of you will enjoy this, I believe.

RB

Enjoy is a bit of an understatement Robert. This is really cool innovation.

I am somewhat disappointed that I cant really justify it for my own use, but I am hopeful that down the road you will have a version which is more optimized for shortwingers.

In the mean time, I look forward to looking over the shoulder of my friends while they fly their falcons. I am sure a few of them will be adopting this system.

[Tony James]

Enjoy is a bit of an understatement Robert. This is really cool innovation.

I am somewhat disappointed that I cant really justify it for my own use, but I am hopeful that down the road you will have a version which is more optimized for shortwingers.

In the mean time, I look forward to looking over the shoulder of my friends while they fly their falcons. I am sure a few of them will be adopting this system.

Hi Geoff,

I've been talking with a couple of goshawking friends today, who are quite excited about the potential benefits of this new system to them.

I've heard a few stories used as examples of those occasions where 'knowing' rather than 'guessing' their hawk's location would have saved time, unnecessarily crossed rivers, stress, and various dangerous situations.

I believe most of us could look back over seasons with goshawks and think of countless times when we'd have benefitted from a system that told us exactly where an out-of-sight hawk was, and what it was doing, rather than one that told us it was 'somewhere in that direction'.

As a recovery tool for a goshawker, I think it will soon prove to be a winner.

Best wishes,

Tony.

[goshawkr]

Hi Geoff,

I've been talking with a couple of goshawking friends today, who are quite excited about the potential benefits of this new system to them.

I've heard a few stories used as examples of those occasions where 'knowing' rather than 'guessing' their hawk's location would have saved time, unnecessarily crossed rivers, stress, and various dangerous situations.

I believe most of us could look back over seasons with goshawks and think of countless times when we'd have benefitted from a system that told us exactly where an out-of-sight hawk was, and what it was doing, rather than one that told us it was 'somewhere in that direction'.

As a recovery tool for a goshawker, I think it will soon prove to be a winner.

Best wishes,

Tony.

Hi Tony.

To put things in perspective, I never fly without telemetry. However, last season I got out my receiver exactly twice not counting the daily check to verify that it was operating. I currently use a scout transmitter that has been custom tuned to maximize battery life, and last season I used 3 batteries all year.

At that level of use, its difficult for me to justify the expense of the battery life for this new system, to say nothing of the expense of the gear itself. It dosnt hurt that I am highly allergic to apple products for the mapping apps.

Your right, a lot of austringers would find more peace of mind with this setup than they currently enjoy. But even they would be better served with a system more optimized for them. For example, optimizing battery life by offering a shorter range for the data stream and/or less than real time in the data feed (for shortwingingers, one update a second or even once a minute is more than enough).

Longwingers are where the money is. It makes sense that their needs are catered to in the first (and second and third) round. And of course, there are plenty of falconers that walk in both camps.

[Tony James]

Hi Tony.

To put things in perspective, I never fly without telemetry. However, last season I got out my receiver exactly twice not counting the daily check to verify that it was operating. I currently use a scout transmitter that has been custom tuned to maximize battery life, and last season I used 3 batteries all year.

At that level of use, its difficult for me to justify the expense of the battery life for this new system, to say nothing of the expense of the gear itself. It dosnt hurt that I am highly allergic to apple products for the mapping apps.

Your right, a lot of austringers would find more peace of mind with this setup than they currently enjoy. But even they would be better served with a system more optimized for them. For example, optimizing battery life by offering a shorter range for the data stream and/or less than real time in the data feed (for shortwingingers, one update a second or even once a minute is more than enough).

Longwingers are where the money is. It makes sense that their needs are catered to in the first (and second and third) round. And of course, there are plenty of falconers that walk in both camps.

Hi Geoff,

I know what you mean. I invested in the 434 uhf system and have hardly used that either. But there will be times, and when they come I'm sure this additional stuff will take away much of the stress.

Of course the live data and flight mapping stuff will give me as a longwinger so much more than additional security when things go wrong, and given that my falcon won't tolerate a backpack, it's only now that the system is available with such a miniaturised transmitter that I've been able to contemplate enjoying the benefits of such a system.

I genuinely believe that systems that take the guesswork out of tracking will soon become the norm, be it for long, or shortwingers (and yes, I'm sure there will be variations in programming to suit us all one day).

A couple of my goshawking friends are keen to have a try with it this coming season, and I'd enjoy letting you know how they get on.

Best wishes,

Tony.

PS My goshawking friends have a lot more money than me. ;-)

[JRedig]

I'm planning on trying it with my goshawks, I have occasion in the mountains where this would be fantastic! Some of our snowshoe hunts last year went up over hills and yonder, left me wondering where I should be going and things are steep/deep enough that telemetry means a lot of triangulation and a lot of vertical. Even if it doesn't benefit, the geek factor is too high not to!

[Tony James]

I'm planning on trying it with my goshawks, I have occasion in the mountains where this would be fantastic! Some of our snowshoe hunts last year went up over hills and yonder, left me wondering where I should be going and things are steep/deep enough that telemetry means a lot of triangulation and a lot of vertical. Even if it doesn't benefit, the geek factor is too high not to!

Hi Jeff,

I wonder how long it will be before 'triangulation' is referred to in falconry circles as 'a defunct term once used in relation to tracking lost hawks'?

Best wishes,

Tony.

[Tasha55403]

For shortwingers doing a daily hack of imprints I imagine this would be a pretty sweet, reassuring thing to have Knowing exactly where your eyass is and where it's been going would take a lot of the stress out of it. It wouldn't stop predators or anything, but being able to look at your screen and see where it is? Worth every penny I would think

[goshawkr]

I'm planning on trying it with my goshawks, I have occasion in the mountains where this would be fantastic! Some of our snowshoe hunts last year went up over hills and yonder, left me wondering where I should be going and things are steep/deep enough that telemetry means a lot of triangulation and a lot of vertical. Even if it doesn't benefit, the geek factor is too high not to!

For shortwingers doing a daily hack of imprints I imagine this would be a pretty sweet, reassuring thing to have Knowing exactly where your eyass is and where it's been going would take a lot of the stress out of it. It wouldn't stop predators or anything, but being able to look at your screen and see where it is? Worth every penny I would think

@#$@#%..... you guys are killin my story that there is a market out there for a stripped down version for shortwingers.

I have had some fantasies about hunting snowshoes and ruffed grouse in deep in the woods just like a wild goshawk would, and this setup would really help with that for sure. But even so, I'd be happier with a version that traded range and frequency of data transmissions for extended battery life. I just don't ever see being happy with going through 2-3 batteries in a week! (maybe I remember the product info incorrectly)

And for a hacking transmitter, this would be a really sweet setup. But not as sweet as if it had a good long battery life.

[Tasha55403]

I wonder if they would make an optional, dual battery version for the folks that wouldn't mind sacrificing size/weight for more juice...

[Chris L.]

Replacing batteries more often to know exactly where my bird is is a small price to pay for the hours, fuel, money and time I put into them. Especially when we are talking the bird itself is in the 2000-6000 dollar range.

I also feel this will save me a ton of time looking for my bird and decrease the time wasted going back and forth trying track them down. In my daily life, time is money and the less time I'm wasting it's money in my pocket.

It's funny how people will buy home and auto insurance and not bat an eye. But when it comes to buying insurance for your bird you get guys who so no way. When you calculate all your costs these birds they cost more than some of the same cars you are driving around insured. For me this is bird insurance and I'm happy to pay it and pay for the premium ever month... Aka the batteries

[Captain Gizmo]

Oh yea. And any time you don't know exactly how much run time is on a battery you change it out before you fly. Batteries are CHEAP.

[Ryansintx]

I wonder if they would make an optional, dual battery version for the folks that wouldn't mind sacrificing size/weight for more juice...

Great point Tash.
I think this product has great potential, but the only thing keeping me from pre ordering one is the battery life. I would Really Love to see a unit with a Solar Cell. $995 plus the cost of the bird and a replacement if its lost is a lot to risk. Granted you can also use a backup transmitter, but I would rather see one long life gps unit.

On a large falcon I would gladly give up some transmitter size/weight for a longer recovery window. It would be perfect for hacking or just the peace of mind that at some point there is a potential that the bird could be recovered after several weeks or months.

Im definitely looking forward to watching this technology mature and evolve.
Keep up the great work Marshal.
Ryan S.