NAFA on KSL Outdoors

[Squirrelhawkin]

and only you as a falconer would catch on it’s a sealed pigeon.

Not so sure about that.

[mainefalconer]

I've been biting my tongue so hard here, that I'm surprised it's still attached....

I'm with Nick on this one... there are plenty of pigeon racers and bird-watchers, and educated biologists/science students/etc., who would recognize that a "normal" pigeon doesn't behave that way.

Ryan, by belittling those of us who stand strongly for protecting the image of our sport, you're contributing to the fighting among us that you say is our biggest problem. Just as a bone-headed apprentice has the "right" to use fishing line as a creance, we (you and I) have a right to point out to that person what the problems are with doing so.

You say that we're airing the dirty laundry of others.... well, we don't even need to when they're so willing to air it themselves with the help of a news crew.

There's nothing wrong with demanding a certain level of practice from our fellow falconers. It may not be the BEST way to lift up our sport, but in some cases (like when the sponsor hasn't done the best job of insisting good practice and thoughtful approaches) many of us find it necessary.

That's one of the things that NAFEX is great for. Helping to educate those who need it, and also identifying and edifying those who are worthy of being lifted up as good examples.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not always the most diplomatic of voices when it comes to where I draw the line on certain things in this sport. I'm sure you could dig up all sorts of snide comments that I've made, but that's just me. Sometimes I'm a snarky little Irish prick with an attitude. And in the future, I should heed your words, and not be so hard on an apprentice, who genuinely may not know better..... maybe I should track down their sponsor and sling mud at him/her instead.

Maybe this whole thing is a good lesson to all of us, and we should exercise more caution in the future when deciding which folks to send out with the journalists.

[UTFalconer]

I've been biting my tongue so hard here, that I'm surprised it's still attached....

I'm with Nick on this one... there are plenty of pigeon racers and bird-watchers, and educated biologists/science students/etc., who would recognize that a "normal" pigeon doesn't behave that way.

Ryan, by belittling those of us who stand strongly for protecting the image of our sport, you're contributing to the fighting among us that you say is our biggest problem. Just as a bone-headed apprentice has the "right" to use fishing line as a creance, we (you and I) have a right to point out to that person what the problems are with doing so.

You say that we're airing the dirty laundry of others.... well, we don't even need to when they're so willing to air it themselves with the help of a news crew.

There's nothing wrong with demanding a certain level of practice from our fellow falconers. It may not be the BEST way to lift up our sport, but in some cases (like when the sponsor hasn't done the best job of insisting good practice and thoughtful approaches) many of us find it necessary.

That's one of the things that NAFEX is great for. Helping to educate those who need it, and also identifying and edifying those who are worthy of being lifted up as good examples.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not always the most diplomatic of voices when it comes to where I draw the line on certain things in this sport. I'm sure you could dig up all sorts of snide comments that I've made, but that's just me. Sometimes I'm a snarky little Irish prick with an attitude. And in the future, I should heed your words, and not be so hard on an apprentice, who genuinely may not know better..... maybe I should track down their sponsor and sling mud at him/her instead.

Maybe this whole thing is a good lesson to all of us, and we should exercise more caution in the future when deciding which folks to send out with the journalists.

Then go the person and help them, perhaps in a private setting... No need to belittle them on public forum. We need to educate these guys, but not like this... Your right, I have my faults, and I apologize for that. But I gotta start somewhere.

[scrumbrakk]

You know, it's funny. I was there with the crew being filmed (that's me with the other harris, and me swinging my legs on the tailgate) I feel like Mike Wizowsky from Monsters Inc. The very reason I didn't want to be interviewed or really be shown trying to fly my bird is because I've NEVER seen a SINGLE falconry bit where the poor guy being interviewed or flying his bird hasn't been COMPLETELY CRUCIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rarely have I seen such a bunch of overly critical buch of chumps in my life. I'd expect these kinds of negative comments on YouTube where jackasses go just to tear someone down that had the juevos big enough to put a video of themselves up; but to see the kind of negativity and nit-picking that goes on in here is really unnessecary. Caleb has been working with his new bird and I think has done an AMAZING job, I could only dream my first year of falconry was as good as his has been, his bird is still training and the reason it didn't bring the pigeon down on the first stoop is because it likes to go for the head for some reason. He's an awesome bird and and congrats and thanks are due to Caleb for volunteering to go on TV, I'm sure he had to know there were going to be some jackasses on here that were going to scorch him.

[sharptail]

You know, it's funny. I was there with the crew being filmed (that's me with the other harris, and me swinging my legs on the tailgate) I feel like Mike Wizowsky from Monsters Inc. The very reason I didn't want to be interviewed or really be shown trying to fly my bird is because I've NEVER seen a SINGLE falconry bit where the poor guy being interviewed or flying his bird hasn't been COMPLETELY CRUCIFIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rarely have I seen such a bunch of overly critical buch of chumps in my life. I'd expect these kinds of negative comments on YouTube where jackasses go just to tear someone down that had the juevos big enough to put a video of themselves up; but to see the kind of negativity and nit-picking that goes on in here is really unnessecary. Caleb has been working with his new bird and I think has done an AMAZING job, I could only dream my first year of falconry was as good as his has been, his bird is still training and the reason it didn't bring the pigeon down on the first stoop is because it likes to go for the head for some reason. He's an awesome bird and and congrats and thanks are due to Caleb for volunteering to go on TV, I'm sure he had to know there were going to be some jackasses on here that were going to scorch him.

Brian,
Your post has gone a long ways to change the issue. You act as if Caleb is the dammaged party here, he is not. All of falconry was dammaged at his hands and lack of good judgement. No one should post footage of sealed bags for public consumption, as any one piece could play a major part in an attack that results in the loss of legal falconry anywhere in the world.

I like Caleb from what I know of him on nafex. It is great that he is doing a good job with his new peregrine.

However, this is not the point. It is not important to me who made this mistake, only that it is not repeated. None of my posts were intended to be punitive to any individual. Any one else posting such garbage or being party to it, should be challanged. Unfortunately, there was no way to point it out before it was posted.

As far as sky trials go, I think that they can be great and I have attended and flown in a number of them. Unfortunately the last GRM trials I attended, needed some serious controls implimented. As an example, people should not be parading eagle owls around while falcons are being flown.

[scrumbrakk]

I appreciate your response but I'm afraid I'd have to respectfully disagree. I understand your feelings on sealed or hindered pigeons being shown to the public. I just disagree that we need to worry about animal rights activists or their ilk. Pidgeons are not even considered a game animal or controled in any state that I'm aware of, and in most states considered a nuisance animal and not afforded any protection (quite the opposite actually). So sealing does no damage to the animal, I could see some issues coming down the pipe if we were breaking wings or cracking skulls before we served them up, someone somewhere would find that cruel and inhumane. But to simply put tape around their heads being called cruel won't hold water anywhere (except California and that's a whole other issue) The federal authorities in charge of regulating falconry are VERY, VERY aware of what goes on in training an falconry bird and if using a sealed pidgeon were a problem, it would have already been challenged. The animal right loonies aren't going to be happy until ALL hunting is ended regardless of the tool or method so to Hades with them or trying to appease them in any way. We shouldn't have to hide in any way, shape, or form what we do. If a guy showes up on TV hunting bagged rabbits and shows bloody hands on TV after helping dispatch said rabbit so what??? It's "the circle of life" (insert gospel choir from Lion King here) and it's real. Isn't that what TV's all about these days
So like I say there's my stance and I doubt anyone will change either of our opinions, I respect yours and I believe I understand where you're comming from, I just tend not to worry about the loonies out there that want to end all the things I find fun- like eating meat, and prefer to throw it in there face (like they do) but 16 years of military service would make Barney the purple dinosaur a grouchy a$$ and has done worse to me

[scrumbrakk]

I just realized that's two Disney references in as many posts, I really need to watch more grown up movies or something!!!

[Lowachi]

I just realized that's two Disney references in as many posts, I really need to watch more grown up movies or something!!!

I see your point(s). it;s a done deal. they'll get over it. learn & go on guys. This young man stepped up, when none else did, and gave it his best shot. Like I said before, the antis will find fault if they have to(and have) fabricate it! Support him for his efforts, or step up yourself. JMHO!

[thegreendevil76]

As a non-falconer you can take this or leave it, but I haven't seen anything on here (or other Youtube videos) that is nearly as graphic as what you can see every day on any of the multitude of hunting programs on TV (including mainstream channels that have started hog hunting reality shows featuring hunting with dogs and slitting the throats of live pigs while the catch dogs are holding them down). I'm not sure why falconers have adopted such a clannish and secretive stance (bordering on paranoia), but it makes it seem like there is something to hide. To the average viewer falconry is pretty inoffensive by comparison.

The simple fact is that you will never appease the animal rights activists because you are engaged in hunting and are keeping an animal "captive" (don't jump on me, I'm just using their logic here). There are many positive arguments falconers can make to the general public about their role in raptor breeding and conservation that will offset any damage PETA can inflict.

Other hunting methods have seen something of a resurgence with the increased media exposure and are really no worse for wear when it comes to the animal rights crowd (they seem to have peaked and waned a bit). I can see the wisdom in keeping out of the limelight, but footage on aired on a program targeted (no pun intended) at hunters is pretty low risk and it reaches a group of people who are already sportsmen and might become dedicated practitioners of falconry.

Once you get people who are interested (and have made sure they are aware of the commitment required to become a falconer), that interest should be nurtured. I've seen a lot of people come onto this board with questions and they are sometimes met with derision for their lack of knowledge or experience.

I spent several years as a police field training officer and an academy instructor. I know how easily an experienced person can become frustrated with the "newbies", but you have to remind youself that you were at that stage once yourself and you will not help them grow if you make them shy about asking questions.

It was always my worst nightmare that I would have to bury one of my trainees because I failed to teach them something important about being a street cop. I would rather they asked a question, no matter how stupid, than for them to keep silent and try to come up with their own wrong answers.

Can you really blame the guy who uses monofiliment as a creance if no one takes the time to tell him the right way to do it? When you see someone doing that I will bet you good money that they have been discouraged in some way from asking questions or they have a sponsor that is too busy/inattentive to give them the right information.

Most of you guys have an encyclopedic knowledge of falconry, but if you don't come forward to help train the next generation of falconers then you abdicate your right to bitch about how they turn out.

[Lowachi]

...Most of you guys have an encyclopedic knowledge of falconry, but if you don't come forward to help train the next generation of falconers then you abdicate your right to bitch about how they turn out.

[goshawkr]

I see your point(s). it;s a done deal. they'll get over it. learn & go on guys. This young man stepped up, when none else did, and gave it his best shot. Like I said before, the antis will find fault if they have to(and have) fabricate it! Support him for his efforts, or step up yourself. JMHO!

This just needed to be resposted - entirely - word for word.

[Ron Clarke]

Overall, that's a good video piece. Thanks to all who stepped up and participated.

The reality is the news media will never get everything right. There will always be errors or things that aren't exactly correct or complete. In this case, we're the only ones who will notice. And fear not, in this, as in most television reports on falconry, the "gee whiz" factor far overpowers any minor inaccuracies, and leaves a positive impression with viewers. Our birds are the best audiovisual aids on Earth. That ace in the hole will always play to our advantage. Viewers will remember the stunning images of healthy, gorgeous raptors, not a few seconds of a strange sound most non-hunters wouldn't even recognize as a squealing rabbit.

The antis and PETA types will always be out there and will always say whatever they want without regard to reality or truth from our perspective. We can't afford to focus too much energy on them, but we should keep our guard up and monitor what they're up to.

For most of my adult life, I've worked with reporters, editors, and public figures on how best to communicate with the public, through print and electronic media. If falconers would find it useful, I could look into organizing a media training workshop at a NAFA Meet or elsewhere to help people feel more comfortable standing in front of a camera and increase their chances of doing a superior job of delivering the messages they want to deliver. It's nothing secret or magic, but just a few hints followed can increase any speaker's effectiveness. We've got lots of good representatives of our sport wandering about thinking the last thing they want to do is talk to a reporter. I'd be happy to try to help increase the number of willing and effective communicators on behalf of falconry.

Anyone interested?

[Sue Evans]

Other than the pigeon the only other thing that I noticed that I kind of laughed at was the brit woman who stated that "falconry is all about taking a bird of prey and training it to take wild quarry".

Darren

That was me, and unfortunately all our BOP are captive bred , we cannot take from the wild like you do - unfortunately. So it is a case of training!
Lures, dummy bunnies etc. I think cringe is rather a strong word to use, given this info. Maybe you should have asked me what I meant first, before adopting the 'cringe'.

I accept they do hunt naturally, perhaps I should have said they train us!

Sue

[Sue Evans]

Overall, that's a good video piece. Thanks to all who stepped up and participated.


Anyone interested?

Good post Ron. Pity more people didn't step up and volunteer.

atb
Sue

[Joan Marie]

Youtube is and has been crowded with sub par video on falconry, we surely don't need more.

Having to dig up falconry books and acutally read them just doesn't cut it in this internet age, video is where it is at. If anyone puts more out there in public view, it needs to be top quality, to not be a detriment to our sport and this in not top shelf. I am not concerned about performing for a film crew, no matter who set it up, or who was late and perhaps you shouldn't be either.

I stumbled on this old thread and your post caught my attention. During the time that I was a pre-apprentice as well as throughout my first year, typically I watched untold videos on anything having to do with the sport. Somewhere along the line I picked up some discretion on a whole lot of public media. My questions are these:

1. As a potential Sponsor, how can I better communicate these things to apprentices? Are there some incidents that have turned bad that I can use to illustrate?

2. Alabama regs just released falconers to do conservation programs as long as they speak on Falconry. Can you list some guidelines for those situations?

Thanks!

[sharptail]

Hi Joan Marie,
A brief search did not turn up anything from the past but there are 2 major incidents that were very negitive. The first was video on U tube that showed a falconer's RT with a captured Jackrabbit. While the rabbit was still quite alive the falconer ripped a hind leg off and fed the hawk on it, in full view of the world. The second is a professional film made by Brian Gumble, depecting Golden Eagles hawking deer in eastern Europe. Gumble had duped a noted and distinguished falconer into filming a kill and using it for anti falconry propaganda. Both were in threads here on NAFEX. I am not alone in my view here and NAFA VP, Scott McNeff has also been outspoken on this issue. Someone that is better at doing searchs her on NAFEX should be able to turn up several threads on both of your questions. I hope others feel free to jump into these as well.

All the best

[footbound]

Beyond the local 5th graders I feel to obligation to explain myself or falconry to anybody. Filming what we do does none of us any good. No one outside the sport deserves the sight of it. I even think twice about taking other falconers out. As a matter of fact I don't think we need to try to encourage new falconers. If a person wants to do it they will find it. I still can't bring myself to post a picture on here, among friends and fellow falconers! I don't mind airing my shortcomings as a falconer though.

[Joan Marie]

Thanks guys!